Is Barry Sanders a top 5 RB of All-Time? (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

That said Barry Sanders behind Emmitt's offensive line would have been the second most incredible statistical compilation of rushing and overall running back statistics the league has ever seen.

First on the list, would have been Bo Jackson if he had solely focused on football and never had that career ending injury. If you ever want to see one of the most dominating performances by a running back in the NFL, check out that Monday football game that pitted the Raiders against the Seattle Seahawks years ago (especially the first half).

I don't know, if we're stretching things this far, how about Tomlinson behind KC's or Denver's line? Priest Holmes with a whole career behind his KC line? How about Gale Sayers or Jim Brown if they played longer? Lawrence Phillips if he wasn't an idiot? I loved watching Barry run as a kid, but I distinctily remember he couldn't get the short yardage, which makes him drop out of the top 5 IMO. #1 to watch, but if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left, you don't want Barry as your ball carrier.

 

[radballs.]

That said Barry Sanders behind Emmitt's offensive line would have been the second most incredible statistical compilation of rushing and overall running back statistics the league has ever seen.

First on the list, would have been Bo Jackson if he had solely focused on football and never had that career ending injury.  If you ever want to see one of the most dominating performances by a running back in the NFL, check out that Monday football game that pitted the Raiders against the Seattle Seahawks years ago (especially the first half).

I don't know, if we're stretching things this far, how about Tomlinson behind KC's or Denver's line? Priest Holmes with a whole career behind his KC line? How about Gale Sayers or Jim Brown if they played longer? Lawrence Phillips if he wasn't an idiot? I loved watching Barry run as a kid, but I distinctily remember he couldn't get the short yardage, which makes him drop out of the top 5 IMO. #1 to watch, but if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left, you don't want Barry as your ball carrier.

I'm not stretching anything. Barry barely makes my top 5. These were just two instances where I think the rankings may have ended up much differently had they either played longer or stayed healthy. I've had a few of these. I was responding also to the most exciting players. Barry and Bo with longer careers in better situations would have been something to see. We're obviously talking about fantasy land here. But, Jim Brown seems to get a lot of love over Payton without having what I would consider the proper longevitity for such a ranking.

 

[joffer]

BrownPaytonSmithSandersin no particular order

 

[-OZ-]

I'm not stretching anything. Barry barely makes my top 5. These were just two instances where I think the rankings may have ended up much differently had they either played longer or stayed healthy. I've had a few of these.

I was responding also to the most exciting players. Barry and Bo with longer careers in better situations would have been something to see. We're obviously talking about fantasy land here. But, Jim Brown seems to get a lot of love over Payton without having what I would consider the proper longevitity for such a ranking.

I considered the hypothetical situations to be a stretch, but as long as we're discussing "what could have been" I'll maintain my post from above, any of those situations would have produced top stats too. FWIW, I agree, Barry would have finished higher than Emmitt for his career yards in Dallas. Bo and Barry are the two most exciting RBs I've ever seen. LT comes close. Aside from him, I can't think of another off hand that I've seen live with near the excitement level.

 

[ThisGuy]

ThisGuy's Top 10 RB List1) Jim Brown2) Walter Payton3) Barry Sanders4) OJ Simpson5) Gale Sayers6) Emmitt Smith7) Earl Campbell8) Jerome Bettis9) LT210) Marshall FaulkI never saw Jim Brown play, but the guy never ran out of bounds and put up amazing #'s in very short seasons.Sweetness was the best I ever watched.Barry was the most electrifying player EVER.OJ was a slash...er great runner!Gale Sayers' career was too short, but what he did in that time was, perhaps more amazing than the top 5.Emmitt was an outstanding competitorEarl Campbell was my favorite all time runner! He had zero moves, he just ran your ### over.The Bus is a HOFér and had the most health of any big back ever.

 

[Koya]

Interesting input.  Only thing I really disagree with (other than me not viewing Emmitt as that elite) is the Sayers comment.  Did you see him run at all?  I have on film only (unfortunately) - but wow.  It was brief... but he earned his place amongst the elite.

I was 5 when he broke into the pro's. I did actually watch him some later in his brief career and he was electrifying. I have seen some film on him also, but unfortunately for Sayers his career was cut short. In my opinion durability is something you must consider when evaluating a player for a "best ever" list. Sometimes the brightest stars tend to burn only half as long and Sayers was one of the brightest.

SC

99% of the time, I would agree with you in regard to durability meaning a lot. However, imo at least, Sayers did SUCH amazing things, that he is that 1%, the 1% or the 1% even - that was so unbelievably gifted, for just enough time for us to really see his grace and skill, to overcome the very short career. Indeed he was the brightest in my opinion. The BEST runner the game has ever seen. For that, he gets put far higher than I would put any other athlete with such a short career.

Not only was he the best runner - but he did this before we had a Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk and countless others to watch. His speed skill and grace were beyond elite and I think in this rare instance, that trumps his short career.

But I do understand your contention.

 

[Koya]

ThisGuy's Top 10 RB List

1) Jim Brown

2) Walter Payton

3) Barry Sanders

4) OJ Simpson

5) Gale Sayers

6) Emmitt Smith

7) Earl Campbell

8) Jerome Bettis

9) LT2

10) Marshall Faulk

I never saw Jim Brown play, but the guy never ran out of bounds and put up amazing #'s in very short seasons.

Sweetness was the best I ever watched.

Barry was the most electrifying player EVER.

OJ was a slash...er great runner!

Gale Sayers' career was too short, but what he did in that time was, perhaps more amazing than the top 5.

Emmitt was an outstanding competitor

Earl Campbell was my favorite all time runner! He had zero moves, he just ran your ### over.

The Bus is a HOFér and had the most health of any big back ever.

Cambell was awesome.But I have trouble with any top 10 that doesnt have Dickerson. He was better AND had a better career than Bettis, Faulk and certainly LT2 at this point. Dickerson was ultra elite.

If you had a team and you could get them as a rookie, use them how you want, you would take Bettis over Dickerson? (I would take him over Faulk, LT2 and Emmitt personally but faulk and Emmitt are top 10 material).

 

[Challenge Everything]

Dont know if it would fly in the Shark Pool but we need 32 people to put a draft together and draft all-time NFL teams. Rules would be simple, draft a 53 man roster anyway you like but a full team must be fielded. And, a 5 man practice squad consisting of current NFL players. The 53 man rosters would be players retired as of last year, or if this draft happens in this off season then players could be included from this year. 32 teams, 58 players per team plus one coach, one offensive coordinator and one defensive coordinator. Hell, throw in a GM as well if you would like. A draft consisting of a possible 62 rounds, or if they would like to scrap the practice squad and forego the "must be retired" aspect then a possible 57 rounds. This draft and commentary would be awesome. A separate draft for coaches may be in order but I say put them in the full draft.

 

[Facenda's Voice]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

 

[hardcoredx]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

 

[radballs.]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

When you make a statement that strongly, please provide your top 10 or so if you wouldn't mind. I don't disagree but I do with BS being anywhere within the top 3. Borderline top 5.

 

[Tick]

ThisGuy's Top 10 RB List

1) Jim Brown

2) Walter Payton

3) Barry Sanders

4) OJ Simpson

5) Gale Sayers

6) Emmitt Smith

7) Earl Campbell

8) Jerome Bettis

9) LT2

10) Marshall Faulk

I never saw Jim Brown play, but the guy never ran out of bounds and put up amazing #'s in very short seasons.

Sweetness was the best I ever watched.

Barry was the most electrifying player EVER.

OJ was a slash...er great runner!

Gale Sayers' career was too short, but what he did in that time was, perhaps more amazing than the top 5.

Emmitt was an outstanding competitor

Earl Campbell was my favorite all time runner! He had zero moves, he just ran your ### over.

The Bus is a HOFér and had the most health of any big back ever.

Why no Dickerson? I mean, Jerome Bettis?

 

[gman8343]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

If you're asking me who I'd rather watch, then Barry is my #1 all time. If you're asking me who I'd want to help my team win, then I'd go with Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

Faulk

and probably LT2

all over Barry. As great as Sanders was, his style of running caused him to be hit for a loss more than any other of the "great" RBs, and it's not even close. It's mentioned earlier in the thread, but Barry often hurt Detroit by putting them in third and long situations.

Feel free to call me every name on the planet, but I honestly believe there are at least five better all around RBs than Barry.

 

[radballs.]

I think a big part of the problem is coming up with a consensus as to what defines a TOP back. Subjective valuations in many categories makes the answer quite different among people.

 

[ThisGuy]

ThisGuy's Top 10 RB List

1) Jim Brown

2) Walter Payton

3) Barry Sanders

4) OJ Simpson

5) Gale Sayers

6) Emmitt Smith

7) Earl Campbell

8) Jerome Bettis

9) LT2

10) Marshall Faulk

I never saw Jim Brown play, but the guy never ran out of bounds and put up amazing #'s in very short seasons.

Sweetness was the best I ever watched.

Barry was the most electrifying player EVER.

OJ was a slash...er great runner!

Gale Sayers' career was too short, but what he did in that time was, perhaps more amazing than the top 5.

Emmitt was an outstanding competitor

Earl Campbell was my favorite all time runner!  He had zero moves, he just ran your ### over.

The Bus is a HOFér and had the most health of any big back ever.

Why no Dickerson? I mean, Jerome Bettis?

I'll admit, I forgot about Dickerson, but maybe that's just it. It all happened at the beginning of his career. He was undoubtedly a great running back...and after thinking about it, I'd bump LT2 off the list and slide him in there after Campbell.Earl Campbell over Eric Dickerson every day!

 

[Ghost Rider]

No way is Jerome Bettis top 10. He has always been a very good RB, but never a great or dominant one, kind of like Curtis Martin, whom I would put above Bettis (but not in the top 10, either).

 

[-OZ-]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

 

[hardcoredx]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

 

[Facenda's Voice]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

While I agree that Sanders was top 5, Jim Brown don't "chit" for anyone. Jim Brown could dominate in any era. He is the best ever, and there's no doubt about that.

 

[hardcoredx]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

While I agree that Sanders was top 5, Jim Brown don't "chit" for anyone. Jim Brown could dominate in any era. He is the best ever, and there's no doubt about that.

Yea right, he played against midgets. He would not be dominate today. He is Larry Johnson's size for crying out loud. Barry would own in the 50's and 60's.The athletes of the modern era are 10x better than the ones of Brown's era. I doubt very much Brown would have lasted more than 5 years in today's NFL.

 

[dgreen]

Dont know if it would fly in the Shark Pool but we need 32 people to put a draft together and draft all-time NFL teams. Rules would be simple, draft a 53 man roster anyway you like but a full team must be fielded. And, a 5 man practice squad consisting of current NFL players. The 53 man rosters would be players retired as of last year, or if this draft happens in this off season then players could be included from this year.

32 teams, 58 players per team plus one coach, one offensive coordinator and one defensive coordinator. Hell, throw in a GM as well if you would like. A draft consisting of a possible 62 rounds, or if they would like to scrap the practice squad and forego the "must be retired" aspect then a possible 57 rounds.

This draft and commentary would be awesome. A separate draft for coaches may be in order but I say put them in the full draft.

We did a 12-team, 38-round draft in the FFA. 32 teams and 53 players would be too many, IMO. Quick, come up with a list of 300 offensive linemen.Link

It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot about players, some of which I hadn't heard of before. And, in keeping with this thread's topic, Barry was the 3rd RB selected (16th overall) in that draft.

 

[gman8343]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

This is simply not true. Not even close.Instead of plunging ahead and gaining one/two yards, Barry'd run all over the field, evading tacklers left and right -- sometimes he'd break a 60 yd run, but often be hit for a 4 yard loss. Barry went for the home run all the time, and ended up striking out a lot.

His O-line wasn't good, but his style made it worse.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

This is simply not true. Not even close.Instead of plunging ahead and gaining one/two yards, Barry'd run all over the field, evading tacklers left and right -- sometimes he'd break a 60 yd run, but often be hit for a 4 yard loss. Barry went for the home run all the time, and ended up striking out a lot.

His O-line wasn't good, but his style made it worse.

The main reason he had to dance around so much was that there were no holes made by the 0-line. The fact that he averaged just short of 100 yards per game rushing CAREER shows just how great he was. On Dallas he would have averaged 150 and there would be no dicussion.

 

[gman8343]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

This is simply not true. Not even close.Instead of plunging ahead and gaining one/two yards, Barry'd run all over the field, evading tacklers left and right -- sometimes he'd break a 60 yd run, but often be hit for a 4 yard loss. Barry went for the home run all the time, and ended up striking out a lot.

His O-line wasn't good, but his style made it worse.

The main reason he had to dance around so much was that there were no holes made by the 0-line. The fact that he averaged just short of 100 yards per game rushing CAREER shows just how great he was. On Dallas he would have averaged 150 and there would be no dicussion.

This is like the Marino discussion. Put Marino on Montana's team and how many Super Bowls would he have won? No one knows for sure but they'll argue forever. I've seen many a Barry Sanders game, and while he's the best pure runner I've ever seen (by far), I still think his style led him to lose yardage on many a play when if he simply ran straight forward he would have gained a couple.

 

[marinolives13]

LT2 at 4... he has been in the league for 4 years or so.  No way someone is already that great after only being in the league for so short a time.  Is he good?  Does he produce... yeah.  Thats all good and all but how can LT2 be at 4 and Alexander be at 10 when there numbers are almost identical in terms of football the past few  years?

Because numbers aren't what matter.

On many of Barry's most amazing runs, for example, he gained zero yards. I've seen Ron Dayne gain a very easy two yards before tripping over his own feet. A two-yard run isn't always better than a zero-yard run (when other things aren't equal), and the same principle goes for season numbers and career numbers.

Im well aware but placing a few years of greatness into the all time greats is lunacy to me. Kind of like saying Bart Starr is not that great because his numbers dont reflect todays stats. Lunacy to me. LT2 is great today, but overall he is a flash in the NFL right now compared to many other RB's who have produced over a longer period of time./quote]

Lt needs to be in the league longer right now he is behind cmartin and mfaulk as far as rb. he has to pass them before we can start talking about him in same breath as payton, sanders, brown, adn many others.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion.  Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

This is simply not true. Not even close.Instead of plunging ahead and gaining one/two yards, Barry'd run all over the field, evading tacklers left and right -- sometimes he'd break a 60 yd run, but often be hit for a 4 yard loss. Barry went for the home run all the time, and ended up striking out a lot.

His O-line wasn't good, but his style made it worse.

The main reason he had to dance around so much was that there were no holes made by the 0-line. The fact that he averaged just short of 100 yards per game rushing CAREER shows just how great he was. On Dallas he would have averaged 150 and there would be no dicussion.

This is like the Marino discussion. Put Marino on Montana's team and how many Super Bowls would he have won? No one knows for sure but they'll argue forever. I've seen many a Barry Sanders game, and while he's the best pure runner I've ever seen (by far), I still think his style led him to lose yardage on many a play when if he simply ran straight forward he would have gained a couple.

I see what you are saying, but that is like downgrading a home run hitter because he does not hit for a higher average. Barry still averaged 100 yards a game, I'm not sure if a change in style would improve that on the team he was on, which also had a sub-par defense which kept him off the field a lot.

 

[marinolives13]

Its funny when people say that barry bonds is the best player. Nobody ever says that he has no rings, but in football people say you can't call marino or sanders the best because they never won a super bowl. There is no difference between the two! Sanders was the best rb I ever saw and that includes campbell,esmith,payton,dickerson,and many others. Marino was the best qb ever same reason.

 

[-OZ-]

Without reading any of these posts, I CANNOT believe there were so many for this discussion. Of course Sanders is top 5 you f-ing morons.

No chit, anyone that thinks he's not..... is an insult to every rainman on the planet.

Tell me you want Barry carrying the ball if you're in a 4th and goal at the 2 yard line, down by 4, with :02 seconds left. The ability to get the tough yardage, when everyone knows you're running the ball, is pretty damn important. That is Barry's weakness, and why, despite growing up (and I still am) a Barry fan, I don't quite put him in the top 5.

I agree with GMan here, I'll take:

Payton

Brown

Dickerson

OJ

LT2

Faulk

Ahead of Barry for being complete backs. Arguably Emmitt as well.

Now, you can say you'd just sign a 2nd RB, or give the ball to your fullback, but in order to be top 5 all-time, you need to be the guy everyone relies on in the clutch. You didn't see Michael Jordan say "hey, I can't make the 3, so give it to Pippen", or Wayne Gretzky pulled in OT.

He played on the crappiest O-line in football. I'm in Detroit and I watched almost every game. He had very little room to run simply because the scheme was horrible and the O-Line couldn't get Barry even close to line of scrimmage cleanly, like it happened for Jim Brown, OJ, Dickerson, and Emmitt Smith . It's no wonder the man probably had more negative carries than any one in history, the Lions O-line was terrible. If Barry ran on Emmitt Smith's line in Dallas -THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER. Some of you people have watched very little football if u think OJ deserves to be on this list over Barry. BARRY IS THE GREATEST RUNNER EVER AT RB. He would make Jim Brown chit in his pants if he played in the late 60's and 60's. Don't kid yourself, Barry would have destroyed and humilitated the NFL unlike anybody in that era. He was a freak of nature beyond anyone I have ever seen at RB.

This is simply not true. Not even close.Instead of plunging ahead and gaining one/two yards, Barry'd run all over the field, evading tacklers left and right -- sometimes he'd break a 60 yd run, but often be hit for a 4 yard loss. Barry went for the home run all the time, and ended up striking out a lot.

His O-line wasn't good, but his style made it worse.

The main reason he had to dance around so much was that there were no holes made by the 0-line. The fact that he averaged just short of 100 yards per game rushing CAREER shows just how great he was. On Dallas he would have averaged 150 and there would be no dicussion.

We'll argue about this for years. I loved Barry Sanders, he's still my favorite player of all time, but I simply can't put him above those RBs who were the complete package. Best pure runner, without a doubt, best all-around RB? I just don't quite put him there. maybe this is all the line and coach's fault, but we can only go by what we saw. Again, if you transplant Barry to Dallas, you have to consider every RB on the best teams for them as well. That includes Bo, if he played just football, behind Dallas's line as well.

 

[gman8343]

Its funny when people say that barry bonds is the best player. Nobody ever says that he has no rings, but in football people say you can't call marino or sanders the best because they never won a super bowl. There is no difference between the two! Sanders was the best rb I ever saw and that includes campbell,esmith,payton,dickerson,and many others. Marino was the best qb ever same reason.

True enough. The thing is it's all opinion. Sanders was the best RB you ever saw and Marino the best QB, but that's according to you. If someone says Jim Brown was the best RB and Montana the best QB, who are you to argue? I think Barry was amazing, and the best pure runner ever, but I personally would rather have a few other RBs I feel were better all around players. Just my opinion, that's all.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i posted a list on another board, & asked why put bo jackson above faulk, campbell & even marcus allen... in answering, it helped me to think a little more clearly about attributes of different kinds of RBs & how they might stack up against each other... hope this isn't unintelligible without question that prompted it, but i think the points are fairly self-contained & can stand on their own...__________________________________________________________________ i could see making a lot of cases for moving one back or another in one direction or the other... even if faulk & campbell were slid ahead of bo, he could still be in top 10 which is fine by me. marcus allen was a tough one... he was imo the next most worthy for inclusion (not counting when LT II puts in few more years of service).one criteria i failed to mention... the good old, "if you just had one game, which back would you want" game. even there, it is tricky with lots of possible variations... faulk might be guy to have if his best ever RB hands could better exploit matchups (as a sidenote... who are we playing in this mythical "one game" everybody always talks about... never thought about that before )... campbell was a BEAST... maybe (if not brown) the hardest RB in this group to knock off his pins in terms of power & contact balance.why do i like bo so much? for same reason i like dickerson so much & jim brown... they were guys i identified (for myself, anyway) as total package, complete back kind of guys... & you can see how high i put those two.to some it would be sacrilige to put dickerson ahead of payton, sanders & even smith. i just feel that... with most backs... if they are fast, quick & elusive (sanders, OJ, sayers & faulk) they tend to be more dimunitive... if they are big & powerful (campbell & bettis) they tend to not be as fast quick or shifty... marcus was sort of in the middle... not really big or small, not fast or slow, excellent but not astounding moves... payton & smith probably fit this descrition, tooclearly guys like allen & bettis (& smith is better example) can put up phenomenally productive & historic rushing numbers... just by doing it for long enough.back to the one game analogy... imo bo was jim brown & dickerson-like... & those guys who can run through, around & betweeen, & away from defenders (in short - size/power, quickness/elusiveness/vision/instinct & speed) put tremendous pressure on defenses because they have no weaknesses... they are who i would least like to face if i was a defense... maybe bo should higher for me given what i just said... but i did ding him a little for lack of longevity (one game criteria not ONLY one, but an important one, that can be a sort of tie breaker for me when parsing multiple & sometimes conflicting criteria).christian okoye was as kind of outlier to my theory & classificatory schema... it would be hard to genetically engineer in lab a more promising size/speed combo (nigerian nightmare was national 100 m AND shot put champ, just a ridiculous combo), & potential raw material for monster RB... except there is clearly more to being RB than being big & fast. his main undoing was he ran too upright & took about 2-3 "deathblow" , career-ender-type hits per game. just like a boxer that takes too many body shots in early rounds or stages of his career, he got used up very quickly. he didn't show much natural elusiveness... a devestating ommission from an elite RBs skill set, which could be a deal breaker right there... even campbell & bettis had/have quick feet & some wiggle/shiftiness. in fairness to okoye, he played no football in his formative years in africa... what if he played from pop warner on? in another sport, hakeem olajawon (sp?) parlayed hand/eye coordination garnered from being a soccer goalie & was able to quickly master basketball well enough to rapidly rise to the summit & be a great one (maybe not wilt, russell, abdul-jabaar, shaq great, not just below)... not obvious if there is something intrinsically different about basketball opposed to football such that one or the other might be easier to pick up late in life... than again, in basketball, you don't suffer 2-3 deathblow-type shots a game. also, even if the nightmare HAD played from pee wee level on, would he have then had elite balance, elusiveness, vision, instincts??? current RBs LT, alexander, fred taylor, corey dillon, deuce mccalister & best of the best youngsters steven jackson, willis mcgahee & kevin jones are rare in sense that they combine jaw dropping size, power, speed, quickness & moves. i already stated my case for LTs future inclusion (barring something unforseen)... in retrospect, i should have put alexander in primed section (only RB to have 15+ TDs in 4 or is it 5 straight season?)... if he keeps up pace, he will put up some numbers that just can't be ignored (by my one game criteria, he isn't as physical or strong or run as tough inside as brown, dickerson & bo, though he is improving & making strides in that department, but he will probably never incorporate that aspect of his game to level of other legends), taylor has been injured too much to be spoken of in same breath as these guys (maybe a contradiction when i include bo... if taylor had a full career he would have racked up massive numbers)... while bo was forced to retire early, at least he wasn't injury prone when he was playing, one difference with taylor... i forget dillon's career totals... he may be hurt by languishing in anomynity with bungles for years, & his sullen & checkered relationship with press hasn't helped overcome that factor, imo... mccalister also dinged a lot & hasn't strung together enough huge seasons when not injured (not often)... maybe he is dillon-like having to labor for laughing stock franchise (though payton & sanders blow up that theory)... last three on list just pups.as to bo not making it to HOF (i absolutely agree), that is function of fact that longevity weighted heavily (except for sayers)... if you concur with my assessment of his physical skills, or came to same conclusion based on your seeing him with your own eyes, durability questions aside... you might agree that if he hadn't had career-ending hip problem so early... he WOULD have made it to HOF.

 

[PsychoMan]

1. J Brown

2. W Payton

3. Emmitt Smith

4. LT2

5. M Faulk

6. G Sayers

7. E Campbell

8. B Sanders

9. OJ Simpson

10. S Alexander

The best comparison of another athlete that I can make is to Vince Carter- perhaps the most exciting player of all time, but doesn't do a lot of the little things that it takes to win. Not much of a team leader, an average blocker, average short yardage runner, came up short in big games, average pass catcher, etc. I'll fully admit that he was the greatest pure runner of all time, but hes simply not a complete back at all and is overrated due to the "highlight reel generation" in which we live. It doesn't suprise me at all- any player with great highlights is going to be overrated in our society.

For all of those saying how stupid it is to even suggest that Barry is not top 5, please pick any one of my top 5 RBs, and we'll do a comparison(with that said, I would rather not compare LT2 to him yet just because it'd be difficult to do so since he hasn't played that long, but I'd still do it if need be).

I have a really hard time hearing this ... Barry played on a very bad Lions team most of his career. Can you imagine the damage he'd have done if he'd have played on those Dallas teams in the early/mid 90's? Put Emmitt on those Lions teams and he'd never have rushed for 2000 yards like Barry was capable of or be on anyone's top 3 RB all time list ...I dunno, it's just my opinion, but I've always thought Emmitt was a bit over-rated and Barry wasn't appreciated enough just because he wasn't on a good team ... a RB alone will not get you to the big game; you can't blame him for "not doing the little things it takes to win."

 

[realblue]

Top 5 most exciting RB of all time? Absolutely.Top 5 RB of all time? No way. Too many negative carries (drive killers), and horrible performances in the playoffs.

 

[PMENFAN]

Just how bad was the Lions scheme? Any names from that staff still in the game? How about players? Nobody else there, just Barry. His 'style' wasn't to run around. The Lions scheme/talent was so bad, that that was all they had "uh, give the ball to Barry, and see what he can make happen". That seemed to be their theory. He did get tackled for losses a lot, and much of that was running around, trying to hit the 'homerun' (which is what I thought was the object of the game.). Are there other backs that I'd rather have to get me 1 yard? Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, The Bus, Marion Motley, Robert Newhouse, Chuck Muncie, and hundreds of others. But, the 1 yard gain isn't the essence of the game. So, there are backs I'd rather have for 5 plays a game. For the other 50, I'll take guys like Sanders.

 

[realblue]

Just how bad was the Lions scheme?  Any names from that staff still in the game?  How about players?  Nobody else there, just Barry. 

His 'style' wasn't to run around.  The Lions scheme/talent was so bad, that that was all they had "uh, give the ball to Barry, and see what he can make happen".  That seemed to be their theory.  He did get tackled for losses a lot, and much of that was running around, trying to hit the 'homerun' (which is what I thought was the object of the game.). 

Are there other backs that I'd rather have to get me 1 yard?  Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, The Bus, Marion Motley, Robert Newhouse, Chuck Muncie, and hundreds of others.  But, the 1 yard gain isn't the essence of the game.   So, there are backs I'd rather have for 5 plays a game.  For the other 50, I'll take guys like Sanders.

Pssst ...Herman Moore

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1991 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 11 135 12.3 0 |

| 1992 det | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 51 966 18.9 4 |

| 1993 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 61 935 15.3 6 |

| 1994 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 72 1173 16.3 11 |

| 1995 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 123 1686 13.7 14 |

| 1996 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 106 1296 12.2 9 |

| 1997 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 104 1293 12.4 8 |

| 1998 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 82 983 12.0 5 |

| 1999 det | 8 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 16 197 12.3 2 |

| 2000 det | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 40 434 10.8 3 |

| 2001 det | 6 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 4 76 19.0 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 149 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 670 9174 13.7 62 |

They had one of the best passing attaches in the NFL in the mid-90s with the Run-and-shoot offense.

And the "object of the game" is to win.

 

[Facenda's Voice]

I doubt very much Brown would have lasted more than 5 years in today's NFL.

Because I'm a nice guy, and it wouldn't be considered being excellent to each other, I won't call you a moron for saying that. Let's just say it was humorous.

 

[Koya]

Dont know if it would fly in the Shark Pool but we need 32 people to put a draft together and draft all-time NFL teams. Rules would be simple, draft a 53 man roster anyway you like but a full team must be fielded. And, a 5 man practice squad consisting of current NFL players. The 53 man rosters would be players retired as of last year, or if this draft happens in this off season then players could be included from this year.

32 teams, 58 players per team plus one coach, one offensive coordinator and one defensive coordinator. Hell, throw in a GM as well if you would like. A draft consisting of a possible 62 rounds, or if they would like to scrap the practice squad and forego the "must be retired" aspect then a possible 57 rounds.

This draft and commentary would be awesome. A separate draft for coaches may be in order but I say put them in the full draft.

Somewhat done, but with only 12 teams:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=155137&hl=

 

[Challenge Everything]

Dont know if it would fly in the Shark Pool but we need 32 people to put a draft together and draft all-time NFL teams.  Rules would be simple, draft a 53 man roster anyway you like but a full team must be fielded.  And, a 5 man practice squad consisting of current NFL players.  The 53 man rosters would be players retired as of last year, or if this draft happens in this off season then players could be included from this year. 

32 teams, 58 players per team plus one coach, one offensive coordinator and one defensive coordinator.  Hell, throw in a GM as well if you would like.  A draft consisting of a possible 62 rounds, or if they would like to scrap the practice squad and forego the "must be retired" aspect then a possible 57 rounds. 

This draft and commentary would be awesome.  A separate draft for coaches may be in order but I say put them in the full draft.

Somewhat done, but with only 12 teams:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=155137&hl=

I tried reading through the thread but it was mostly gibberish for the first like 50+ pages. It was a good attempt I will give it that and a lot of work was put into it as well. But, they are not complete teams. It would be most interesting to see just what complete teams could be made with a 53 man roster made up of HOF'ers and the like with 32 teams drafting. I guess we could go through and get All-Time Team Teams, i.e. All Time Chicago team and the like but that would not be complete as all 32 teams have not been around for long. Thus the challenge of having 32 complete teams with a huge draft. That would be worth following.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Just how bad was the Lions scheme? Any names from that staff still in the game? How about players? Nobody else there, just Barry.

His 'style' wasn't to run around. The Lions scheme/talent was so bad, that that was all they had "uh, give the ball to Barry, and see what he can make happen". That seemed to be their theory. He did get tackled for losses a lot, and much of that was running around, trying to hit the 'homerun' (which is what I thought was the object of the game.).

Are there other backs that I'd rather have to get me 1 yard? Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, The Bus, Marion Motley, Robert Newhouse, Chuck Muncie, and hundreds of others. But, the 1 yard gain isn't the essence of the game. So, there are backs I'd rather have for 5 plays a game. For the other 50, I'll take guys like Sanders.

Pssst ...Herman Moore

| Rushing | Receiving |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| 1991 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 11 135 12.3 0 |

| 1992 det | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 51 966 18.9 4 |

| 1993 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 61 935 15.3 6 |

| 1994 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 72 1173 16.3 11 |

| 1995 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 123 1686 13.7 14 |

| 1996 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 106 1296 12.2 9 |

| 1997 det | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 104 1293 12.4 8 |

| 1998 det | 15 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 82 983 12.0 5 |

| 1999 det | 8 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 16 197 12.3 2 |

| 2000 det | 14 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 40 434 10.8 3 |

| 2001 det | 6 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 4 76 19.0 0 |

+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

| TOTAL | 149 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 670 9174 13.7 62 |

They had one of the best passing attaches in the NFL in the mid-90s with the Run-and-shoot offense.

And the "object of the game" is to win.

Thank you. I am really sick and tired of hearing this garbage about how Barry Sanders was the only good offensive player on the Lions in the 90's. The Lions passing attack was lethal in the mid 90's and anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about and as such, their opinion is worthless.

 

[Csonka4life]

He was totally overrated. Near the end of his career they brought in Vardell as a short yardage specialist. Did they ever do that for Brown or Payton(besides the fridge nonsense) or Smith. Did he ever win a big game? Damn the man had rock hands for most of his career. OJ, Payton, Brown were just as dynamic. Riggins and others were more affective. He was spectacular but overrated.......

 

[Bull Dozier]

I doubt very much Brown would have lasted more than 5 years in today's NFL.

Because I'm a nice guy, and it wouldn't be considered being excellent to each other, I won't call you a moron for saying that. Let's just say it was humorous.

Brown could probably throw on some pads right now and kick quite a few guys around the field.As far as Sanders, definitely top 5 ever.

 

[Tick]

Edgerrin James carried 28 times for 107 yards, becoming the third-fastest player in league history to top 9,000 yards. In 93 games, James has rushed for 9,067 yards. Eric Dickerson did it in 82 games; Jim Brown did it in 88.

 

[Raider Nation]

This was a bloodbath.