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Is Brett Favre the Greatest QB of All Time? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gianmarco
- Start date
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Even this is debatable. Favre was a Top 5 fantasy QB 7 times. Peyton has been a Top 5 QB 9 times (with no signs of letting up).
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
That's probably where he is for me.I have never seen a player who has such an achilles heel - a fault that killed his team multiple times in big games in big moments - get such a pass for it. Yes, he won games with the best of them. But he singlehandedly lost so many as well and that precludes him from ranking against the other all time greats.
Give me a choice of any great QB and why would I take a guy with such a high likelihood to kill my teams chances?
a_rackowski
Footballguy
no not the greatest ever but the greatest of the NFL on Primetime generation and the greatest of the Fantasy football generation and the internet generation.
Beergogglz
Footballguy
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
Favre was the Nolan Ryan of our generation. While Ryan holds the all-time strike-out record in baseball, he also holds the all-time walks record. While Favre holds the all-time TD record in football, he also holds the all-time INT record.
Both Favre and Ryan were able to break many records as a result of both talent and longevity. Both players were exciting and brought their own identity and passion to the game. However, to ask if Favre is the greatest QB of all-time is to also ask is Nolan Ryan the greatest pitcher of all-time. Longevity should be awarded, but it should also not be overly embelished.
The answer is...
NO.
Both Favre and Ryan were able to break many records as a result of both talent and longevity. Both players were exciting and brought their own identity and passion to the game. However, to ask if Favre is the greatest QB of all-time is to also ask is Nolan Ryan the greatest pitcher of all-time. Longevity should be awarded, but it should also not be overly embelished.
The answer is...
NO.
the Jag Zone
Footballguy
agreed not 'thee best" of all time.. yet at the same time.. taking their entire careers into account..both are easily in the top echelon of all time greats at their respective positions..
Weiner Dog
Footballguy
I agree 100%. When both players were "on"...they were "on".
BelichicksRevenge
Footballguy
I would rank him as one of the most physically talented along with Elway but not close to being the greatest QB of all time. He made too many mistakes. His decision making was poor and off the top of my head would rank him below, Elway, Montana, Manning and Brady.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
(#1 Votes) 1 Montana (27,593) 1,258,204
2 Favre (19,454) 1,147,654
3 Marino (4,889) 1,039,252
4 Elway (4,253) 996,687
5 Brady (4,036) 856,916
6 P. Manning (1,927) 855,449
7 Unitas (3,692) 831,729
8 Bradshaw (922) 717,746
9 Young (391) 665,897
10 Starr (659) 632,938
11 Aikman (626) 603,644
12 Staubach (432) 545,718
13 Namath (295) 447,849
14 Tarkenton (210) 380,776
15 Baugh (280) 355,219
16 Graham (566) 348,192
17 Fouts (66) 336,425
18 Moon (94) 289,063
19 Griese (33) 279,339
20 Simms (122) 272,301
YOUR RANKINGS
1.Unitas
2.Montana - missed by 1
3.Staubach - Not a product of the system like Aikman was
4.Elway
5.Marino - missed by 2
6.P. Manning
7.Young - missed by 2
8.Graham - You can't ignore all the championships
9.Bradshaw - missed by 1
10.Brady
11.Favre - sorry Brett, too many ints
12.Fouts - one of the most underrated QBs of all time
13.Starr - great leader and has the titles, but not as talented as a lot on this list
14.Tarkenton - losing all those Super Bowls didn't help, but he was very good. Hudini
15.Baugh
16.Griese -
17.Moon
18.Simms
19.Namath - Most overrated QB of all time.
20.Aikman - Product of the system
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Koya
Footballguy
While one is entitled to view him as highly as they wish, to say someone is ill-informed because they have 5 of these as their non-Favre top 5 would seem ill-informed.Unitas
Montana
Elway
Graham
Brady
Or even
S Young
Staubach
Marino
Manning
Road Warriors
Footballguy
Brady just set records this past season without the improperly placed videocams. Lets get back on point.ginman999 said:
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I like your list a little better as having Favre ranked 2nd is simply people living in the present. Favre was a great QB and deserved to be mentioned in the top 10 guys, but he simply made decisions that any of teh top 5 would never make. He simply threw INT's when a FG would put them up by two scores and those are just dumb passes. If I had to make a list it would be:
Tier 1
Montana
Marino
Tier 2
Young
Brady
Tier 3
Favre
Elway
Unitas (I am going on gut feel here, he could be higher)
Manning
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Because Marino was a gun slinger without the bonehead plays. Don't you think Marino would have won a ring if he ever had even any mediocre running game or had a dominating defense with Reggie White?People like to talk about what was around Favre, but Driver, Freeman, Sharpe, Brooks, Walker etc...were every bit as good as smurfs Duper and Clayton. Duper and Clayton were pretty good, but Marino made them good as Favre elevated some of his guys as well. We are not talking about Jerry Rice here? Plus Favre had RB's like Ahman Green, Bennett and Levens who were all much better than Marino had. The GB OL was a much better run blocking unit than Marino had, but Marino's guys were better pass blocking guys. Taking the defense and special teams though Favre had a LOT more around him than Marino ever had. Geez, in looking back at some of the Marino games, his special teams cost him many games (3 fumbled kickoffs in key spots and many missed FG's that would have won games (I could get specific, but that is a different thread)
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Steve Young
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
All QBs that I would take before Brett Favre. Fun guy to watch but by no means the greatest QB ever IMO.
Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Steve Young
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
All QBs that I would take before Brett Favre. Fun guy to watch but by no means the greatest QB ever IMO.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Just wanted to comment about Montana. Obviously, the guy was fantastic and if he is not in your top 3, something is wrong.
But, I wanted to shed some light on a few items. It is clear that the teams he was on were awesome. Young came in and didn;t miss much of a beat. (a matter of fact, SF was caught cheating the cap that they had at the time)...
Anyway, it is clear that you need a full team to win playoff games and then get to the SB. Time and time again we see good teams bail out poor performances by individuals to win games. The most glaring example is the HORRIFIC performance by Ben Roethlisberger in the SB victory.
Montana never won a playoff game where his defense allowed more than 27 points. (meaning he never won a game where he had to put up huge points to overcome a poor defensive performance). Contrast, Marino won 1 playoff game where his defense allowed more than 27 points, Favre Never had to, Elway won once where his defense allowed more than 27 points (it was 33 points!)
Montana never lost a playoff game where his team scored more than 24 points (meaning when he scored a decent amount the defense held them in check.) Contrast, Marino lost scoring 34 points, Favre lost scoring 27 twice, Elway lost once scoring 27 points.
Montana and the west coast offense were a perfect marriage as he orchestrated it masterfully. He had some excellent defenses, he had some good rb's and he had the best WR (maybe player) of all time in Jerry Rice. It is very possible to say that others couldn't do what Montana did and that is probably true), but he couldn't have sat back in the pocket and thrown down field and taken the beatings that many of the GOAT QB's had to take because Montana was not as physically strong. IMO Elway, Marino and Favre took a lot of punishment to get the balls off they did and Montana couldn't have done that. In fact, when Montana played some of the top defenses like the Giants in 85 and 87 he put up a grand total of 6 points with no TD's and 3 picks.
I still have Montana at the top of my list, but I wanted to make some of the above perspective points ... (Football is the ultimate team sport and the QB's get too much credit in victory and too much blame in losing.)
But, I wanted to shed some light on a few items. It is clear that the teams he was on were awesome. Young came in and didn;t miss much of a beat. (a matter of fact, SF was caught cheating the cap that they had at the time)...
Anyway, it is clear that you need a full team to win playoff games and then get to the SB. Time and time again we see good teams bail out poor performances by individuals to win games. The most glaring example is the HORRIFIC performance by Ben Roethlisberger in the SB victory.
Montana never won a playoff game where his defense allowed more than 27 points. (meaning he never won a game where he had to put up huge points to overcome a poor defensive performance). Contrast, Marino won 1 playoff game where his defense allowed more than 27 points, Favre Never had to, Elway won once where his defense allowed more than 27 points (it was 33 points!)
Montana never lost a playoff game where his team scored more than 24 points (meaning when he scored a decent amount the defense held them in check.) Contrast, Marino lost scoring 34 points, Favre lost scoring 27 twice, Elway lost once scoring 27 points.
Montana and the west coast offense were a perfect marriage as he orchestrated it masterfully. He had some excellent defenses, he had some good rb's and he had the best WR (maybe player) of all time in Jerry Rice. It is very possible to say that others couldn't do what Montana did and that is probably true), but he couldn't have sat back in the pocket and thrown down field and taken the beatings that many of the GOAT QB's had to take because Montana was not as physically strong. IMO Elway, Marino and Favre took a lot of punishment to get the balls off they did and Montana couldn't have done that. In fact, when Montana played some of the top defenses like the Giants in 85 and 87 he put up a grand total of 6 points with no TD's and 3 picks.
I still have Montana at the top of my list, but I wanted to make some of the above perspective points ... (Football is the ultimate team sport and the QB's get too much credit in victory and too much blame in losing.)
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Saints-Man
Footballguy
While a very good QB and a first ballot Hall of Famer, Favre is not even the best Packer QB of all time. Many of his records reflect his incredible longevity in the modern era of football. However, I think Bart Starr was a better QB, although at a different time.
Favre lost too many playoff games at home to even be in the GOAT discussion.
Favre lost too many playoff games at home to even be in the GOAT discussion.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I agree that the supporting cast is CRITICAL and not taking that into account is absurd, but why do you give Elway all the credit for doing it with little around him yet you don't do the same with Marino? Yeah, Marino threw the ball a lot, but that was out of necessity because he had one of the worst rushing talent and run blocking around. He also had a defense that put them in the hole a lot forcing a comeback. I would agree that Elway didn't have much either, but why Elway gets the "pass" and not Marino? Teams played the nickel and dime on Marino all the time and they still couldn't run. They didn't have to do that against Elway. I will post stats in my next emailThis all being said, I agree with the folks that when you get to the top 10, you can debate all day long, they were all great and this isn't like baseball where stats are individual performances. I mean how great could have Earl Campbell been if he had Emmitt's line?Peace!
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
The below stats take into account the extra yards for rushing (3,407 yards) and TD's (33) for rushing to help Elway as that was a part of his game that was a ton better than Marino's. However, while getting sacked can be a difference of the OL (clearly has a big factor), Marino was great at throwing the ball away right before he got hit to avoid sacks. In fact, this was a huge part of his game as he would do anything to avoid getting sacked. He might not have been a smart person, but he was a VERY smart football player.
Code:
Yards/Attempt Comp % TD's Int's Yards sacksMarino 7.3 59.4 429 252 61,448 270 (1930 yards)Elway 7.1 56.9 333 226 54,882 516 (3785 yards)
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Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Are you talking about the SB against Cinci where he threw for 157 yards?
He did have Dwight Clark, but the rest of the talent on offense was not great as you correctly pointed out. He did have a defense that was ranked 2nd on both points and yards allowed...a very important factor. The factor of course was overcoming his 3 picks against Dallas and seeing Dwight Clark leap like Michael Jordan... 
H.K.
Footballguy
Especially when you compare the two and their final ten years:Favre averaged 3900 yards passing and 26 TD passesMarino averaged 3350 yards passing and 20 TD passesThat is a huge difference. People forget that Marino had great numbers early in his career, but that was against watered down competition due to the USFL...when the competition level increased he had one big season in 1986 and then his numbers declined. Favre had a better career than Marino and it was against the best the NFL had to offer his entire time in the league, so no argument can be made to the contrary.
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the Jag Zone
Footballguy
..sorry but I have to take Dan Marino out of this picture and slide in John Elway...
the Jag Zone
Footballguy
as posted before..
these are points that can be debated until we're all blue in the face..
and numbers..
well most all of these guys have numbers in their favor in some fashion
and we can twist them any way we want to make one guy or another look better..
"...Greatness goes way deeper than numbers, rings etc..."
I'll repeat...
there's a big picture here...
in playing ,coaching, and being a fan of the game (and trying to be as objective as possible about any player in any sport as can)..
I try and see things from the "who did more with less" perspective..
I liken it to great Coaches...
who wins more with less talent..
maybe they don't win a title every year..
but who makes their team competitive every year...
who at least gives their Team a chance to win consistantly every year in spite of the fact that they don't have however many HoF'ers on their Team...
that is a big part of (not all of it) how I can see some true greatness and ability...
this is why I give the overall edge to John Elway...
yes 2 SB's won... he had help.. most every QB that wins a ring has had considerable help...
but the ones Elways' Bronco Teams lost?
it's just My opinion that he basically put his team on his shoulders to get them there in the first place..
as I've said ..we can all go back and forth on this in many different directions and to each his own.. I think we can all respect that..
these are points that can be debated until we're all blue in the face..
and numbers..
well most all of these guys have numbers in their favor in some fashion
and we can twist them any way we want to make one guy or another look better..
"...Greatness goes way deeper than numbers, rings etc..."
I'll repeat...
there's a big picture here...
in playing ,coaching, and being a fan of the game (and trying to be as objective as possible about any player in any sport as can)..
I try and see things from the "who did more with less" perspective..
I liken it to great Coaches...
who wins more with less talent..
maybe they don't win a title every year..
but who makes their team competitive every year...
who at least gives their Team a chance to win consistantly every year in spite of the fact that they don't have however many HoF'ers on their Team...
that is a big part of (not all of it) how I can see some true greatness and ability...
this is why I give the overall edge to John Elway...
yes 2 SB's won... he had help.. most every QB that wins a ring has had considerable help...
but the ones Elways' Bronco Teams lost?
it's just My opinion that he basically put his team on his shoulders to get them there in the first place..
as I've said ..we can all go back and forth on this in many different directions and to each his own.. I think we can all respect that..
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Again, all fine, but all your logic points to keeping Marino in and dropping someone else. I think Peyton is really good, but he plays in a perfect environment, in a time where the QB's are protected to the hilt and the receivers can't be touched. On top of that he has two excellent receivers and a good running game??? Brady has the same advantages of this passing frenzied time.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Folks, here it is a post worthy of the worst post of the year. Congrats HK, even though everyone always talks about how bad and misguided you are, you just did it again. NO perspective and not even trying to offer a shred of truth in your numbers? Even you couldn't be this shallow in your bias.Especially when you compare the two and their final ten years:
Favre averaged 3900 yards passing and 26 TD passes
Marino averaged 3350 yards passing and 20 TD passes
That is a huge difference. People forget that Marino had great numbers early in his career, but that was against watered down competition due to the USFL...when the competition level increased he had one big season in 1986 and then his numbers declined.
Favre had a better career than Marino and it was against the best the NFL had to offer his entire time in the league, so no argument can be made to the contrary.
Let's see, you eliminate 5 of the most dominant passing years to date where Marino averaged 4560 yards over 16 games, then you use the final 10 years and give total numbers but don't take into account Marino missed game in your average??? That is 
Finally, you don't include interceptions???I have no idea why you would want to look at only the last 10 years and eliminate the fantastic Marino years, but for kicks, here are the real AVERAGE 16 game schedule numbers.
Marino - 3857 23 TD's 14.6 picks
Favre - 3906 26 TD's and 19.3 picks
The recent passing records are proof that is much easier to throw now, with the QB and receivers not allowed to be touched, than at any other time in history. Even all the pass interference calls make it more beneficial to throw.
So, even using your silly last 10 years example, which is better?
Next time you want to prove a point you might want to have a shred of objectivity so you don't lose any more credibility (if you have any more to lose
H.K.
Footballguy
XYou used per game averages and extrapolated, not actual stats. Your "math" credits Marino with an extra 5,000 yards passing and 30 TD passes which he did not achieve. At best, this is intentionaly misleading.Folks, here it is a post worthy of the worst post of the year. Congrats HK, even though everyone always talks about how bad and misguided you are, you just did it again. NO perspective and not even trying to offer a shred of truth in your numbers? Even you couldn't be this shallow in your bias.Especially when you compare the two and their final ten years:
Favre averaged 3900 yards passing and 26 TD passes
Marino averaged 3350 yards passing and 20 TD passes
That is a huge difference. People forget that Marino had great numbers early in his career, but that was against watered down competition due to the USFL...when the competition level increased he had one big season in 1986 and then his numbers declined.
Favre had a better career than Marino and it was against the best the NFL had to offer his entire time in the league, so no argument can be made to the contrary.Let's see, you eliminate 5 of the most dominant passing years to date where Marino averaged 4560 yards over 16 games, then you use the final 10 years and give total numbers but don't take into account Marino missed game in your average??? That is
I have no idea why you would want to look at only the last 10 years and eliminate the fantastic Marino years, but for kicks, here are the real AVERAGE 16 game schedule numbers.
Marino - 3857 23 TD's 14.6 picks
Favre - 3906 26 TD's and 19.3 picks
The recent passing records are proof that is much easier to throw now, with the QB and receivers not allowed to be touched, than at any other time in history. Even all the pass interference calls make it more beneficial to throw.
So, even using your silly last 10 years example, which is better?
Next time you want to prove a point you might want to have a shred of objectivity so you don't lose any more credibility (if you have any more to lose
I used the true numbers the QB's actually accumulated. However, it does help prove Favre's ability to stay healthy and perform, where as Marino could not. So I thank you for your assistance.
Also, keep clinging to the argument that Marino could have won a title with a better team, too. Fortunately nobody told the Giants that their #16 offense and #7 defense weren't good enough to beat the Patriots #1 offense and #4 defense in the Super Bowl. Based on your logic, that would have been impossible.
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Liquid Tension
Footballguy
you are simply a moron!I apologize to anyone who is stupider for reading his posts...I will now do what others have told me to do with HK and that is put him on ignore!XYou used per game averages and extrapolated, not actual stats. At best, this is intentionaly misleading.Folks, here it is a post worthy of the worst post of the year. Congrats HK, even though everyone always talks about how bad and misguided you are, you just did it again. NO perspective and not even trying to offer a shred of truth in your numbers? Even you couldn't be this shallow in your bias.
Favre averaged 3900 yards passing and 26 TD passes
Marino averaged 3350 yards passing and 20 TD passes
That is a huge difference. People forget that Marino had great numbers early in his career, but that was against watered down competition due to the USFL...when the competition level increased he had one big season in 1986 and then his numbers declined.
Favre had a better career than Marino and it was against the best the NFL had to offer his entire time in the league, so no argument can be made to the contrary.
I have no idea why you would want to look at only the last 10 years and eliminate the fantastic Marino years, but for kicks, here are the real AVERAGE 16 game schedule numbers.
Marino - 3857 23 TD's 14.6 picks
Favre - 3906 26 TD's and 19.3 picks
The recent passing records are proof that is much easier to throw now, with the QB and receivers not allowed to be touched, than at any other time in history. Even all the pass interference calls make it more beneficial to throw.
So, even using your silly last 10 years example, which is better?
Next time you want to prove a point you might want to have a shred of objectivity so you don't lose any more credibility (if you have any more to lose
I used the true numbers the QB's actually accumulated. However, it does help prove Favre's ability to stay healthy and perform, where as Marino could not. So I thank you for your assistance.
Also, keep clinging to the argument that Marino could have won a title with a better team, too. Fortunately nobody told the Giants that their #16 offense and #7 defense weren't good enough to beat the Patriots #1 offense and #4 defense in the Super Bowl. Based on your logic, that would have been impossible.
H.K.
Footballguy
I don't mind you sharing a different viewpoint, but if you twist the truth, like crediting Marino with an extra 5,000 yards passing and 30 TD's in his career, I will point it out so the rest of the board has the accurate data in these discussions.Also, I would hope in the future that you try to live by the same standards that you personally implored the board be held to in this forum.
Link
If putting me on ignore helps you live up to the standards that you set for others, then I fully support you doing so.Peace.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Why? Nothing should change if one has perspective from the beginning?
