Is Hines Ward a HOF'er? (1 Viewer)

[Copeman]

Yeah, he really belongs in the Hall based on that 1 carry for -7 yards in the 1974 Super Bowl (0 receptions).

For the record, Swann's playoff/Super Bowl averages: 3 receptions per game, 57 yards per game, and 9 TDs in 16 games. Woo.

Or we can look at the whole picture:Link

As a rookie, Swann led the NFL with 577 punt return yards, a franchise record and the fourth most in NFL history at the time. He went on to win a championship ring with the Steelers in Super Bowl IX but did not record any receptions in the tough defensive struggle (Pittsburgh quarterback Terry Bradshaw completed only nine passes in the game). However, he returned 3 punts for 34 yards.

The following season became the highlight of Swann's career. He caught 49 passes for 781 yards and a league-leading 11 touchdowns. In the AFC title game against the Oakland Raiders he suffered a severe concussion that forced him to spend two days in a hospital, but surprised many by returning to play for Super Bowl X. Swann recorded four catches for a Super Bowl record 161 yards and a touchdown in the game, assisting the Steelers to a 21-17 win and becoming the first wide receiver to earn Super Bowl MVP honors.

Two seasons later the Steelers made it to Super Bowl XIII. In the game, Swann caught seven passes for 124 yards and scored the final touchdown for Pittsburgh in their 35-31 win over the Dallas Cowboys. The Steelers made it back to the Super Bowl again in the 1979 season, and Swann caught five passes for 79 yards and a touchdown in Pittsburgh's 31-19 win in Super Bowl XIV. Overall, Swann gained 364 receiving yards and 398 all-purpose yards in his four Super Bowls, which were both Super Bowl records at the time.

Swann retired after the 1982 season with 336 career receptions for 5,462 yards and 51 touchdowns. He also rushed for 72 yards and gained 739 yards and a touchdown on punt returns. Swann was a pro bowl selection three times (1975, 1977, 1978) and was selected on the 1970s all-decade team.

 

[Copeman]

So, he's already had huge games in the big games, has impressive stats already....to which he will only add to them in the next how many years. And barring any complete meltdown by the Steeler organization, they will be in quite a few more big games by the time he retires. Thanks for confirming my point.

For the 1,956th time, NO, HE DOES NOT.

For the 1,957th time, he certainly does. Not HOF worthy yet, but again, for the millionth time, he will only be ADDING to those stats in the next so many years. Jesus.....

 

[Drifter]

He should be in the HOF just because he's always smiling. More people should smile more often. I'm smiling right now just thinking about smiling! LOL

Have a GREAT day!

 

[Sheriff66]

People always dismiss or mock the fact that Lynn Swann is in theHOF. Again, they look at stats, overlooking what he did in the games that mattered, like playoffs and the SB. He is in there because of those games. The voters said as much at the time. Much like Hines will be eventually. But don't let facts get in your way....keep posting about the career stats, ignoring the fact that for the millionth time Hines has every intangible to get in, and still will add to your glorious stats the next 4-? years. But keep ignoring that.....

I'll give you this... If Hines Ward somehow becomes part of a great NFL dynasty the way that Lynn Swann was, Hines will indeed get in.Until then, he won't.

The HOF inductees are there primarily for 2 reasons: Stats and Championships. If you have both, you're in. If you're short on one, an abundance of the other can compensate.

If you don't have either you have to have 1)revolutionized the game or 2)been widely regarded as "The BEST" during your era.

So... what's Hines', contract status? New England will probably lose Stallworth in the off season... maybe Ward does have a shot at the Hall!

He will have both when all is said and done, plus a SB MVP, multiple Pro Bowls, not to metion the intangables....

 

[Ghost Rider]

So, he's already had huge games in the big games, has impressive stats already....to which he will only add to them in the next how many years. And barring any complete meltdown by the Steeler organization, they will be in quite a few more big games by the time he retires. Thanks for confirming my point.

For the 1,956th time, NO, HE DOES NOT.

For the 1,957th time, he certainly does. Not HOF worthy yet, but again, for the millionth time, he will only be ADDING to those stats in the next so many years. Jesus.....

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

 

[Sheriff66]

He should be in the HOF just because he's always smiling. More people should smile more often. I'm smiling right now just thinking about smiling! LOLHave a GREAT day!

 

[Copeman]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

 

[Sheriff66]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

They can't see it Copeman, but they will be when he goes in...

 

[Ice Cream Man]

Exactly. System, surrounding talent, competition, and circumstance have nothing to do with it. It's why the Lions made every effort to get Mike Furrey involved last season....98 receptions.....sixteen more than Roy Williams. Mike Furrey. Playmaker.

Yeah, Willie Gault should get into the hall as well. I mean, did you see that guy play? He had major talent. If only he had a QB that could throw the ball to him. Also, can you imagine them having a pass-first system? He'd be putting up elite stats for sure.

 

[phthalatemagic]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

It sure looks to me that his career is winding down a bit. He probably will never have 100 receptions or 10 TDs again, no matter what sort of offense he is in. For a guy with unimpressive stats in a passing era, this is not good. Not only is he going to stick around for the love of the game, with his yearly numbers decreasing, but he has to wait 5 years after he retires before being considered for the HOF. This gives a large number of WRs ability to catch up to his statistics and make Ward look closer to mortal than he does now. By that time, players like Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans will be close to finishing their careers and most will have likely surpassed Ward's statistics. But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished with his career that may be obviously not HOF material, causing Ward's statistical career look even more irrelevant. So the question you should ask yourself is not "if he keeps up this pace.." but are his other accomplishments enough to overcome his not-HOF worthy statistical ones?

 

[Sheriff66]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

It sure looks to me that his career is winding down a bit. He probably will never have 100 receptions or 10 TDs again, no matter what sort of offense he is in. For a guy with unimpressive stats in a passing era, this is not good. Not only is he going to stick around for the love of the game, with his yearly numbers decreasing, but he has to wait 5 years after he retires before being considered for the HOF. This gives a large number of WRs ability to catch up to his statistics and make Ward look closer to mortal than he does now. By that time, players like Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans will be close to finishing their careers and most will have likely surpassed Ward's statistics. But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished with his career that may be obviously not HOF material, causing Ward's statistical career look even more irrelevant. So the question you should ask yourself is not "if he keeps up this pace.." but are his other accomplishments enough to overcome his not-HOF worthy statistical ones?

Remember, it's not the FF HOF, it the Pro Football HOF....

 

[Sheriff66]

From Peter Kings MMQB article this week....

OF COURSE THEY HAVE A CHANCE. From Rob Lah of New York: "Do you think that the Steelers have any chance to beat the Pats next week? Also, the announcers in the Steelers-Bengal game said that Hines Ward should make the Hall of Fame when he retires. Do you think that he will or should?''

I didn't hear that from John Madden or Al Michaels; not sure those were their exact words. But Ward's the kind of difference-maker who will get serious consideration for the Hall ... at least from me. I love him as a player. He raises the level of his team every week. He'll be hurt by the fact that other receivers will have more catches -- in some cases significantly more. And the Steelers certainly have a chance. Look at the Patriots, two weeks in a row, in close games against teams with a combined record of 9-15. I think Vegas will rethink its two-touchdown line in the next day or two.

I'm guessing people missed the quote from someone who ACTUALLY votes for the HOF...

 

[Dought Man]

So I guess we can finally close the debate for good. Steelers fans still believe he is going to Canton, and most everyone else thinks otherwise.

Cool.

Good thread.

 

[Copeman]

They can't see it Copeman, but they will be when he goes in...

Yeah, too many wanna-be statiticians in here. I am done this debate. Can't debate when one side only wishes to discuss one aspect of HOF worthiness. But hey, Ward's career is over as of now, according to most in here. Heck, we can bring stats, along with discussion on their respective teams, how they play in big games, along with quotes from actual voters stating they will vote him in, but it won't change any minds. They'll just go calculate statistics based on 3/4 of a career.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

So I guess we can finally close the debate for good. Steelers fans still believe he is going to Canton, and most everyone else thinks otherwise.Cool.Good thread.

I guess this board is 48% Steelers fans.

 

[Sheriff66]

They can't see it Copeman, but they will be when he goes in...

Yeah, too many wanna-be statiticians in here. I am done this debate. Can't debate when one side only wishes to discuss one aspect of HOF worthiness. But hey, Ward's career is over as of now, according to most in here. Heck, we can bring stats, along with discussion on their respective teams, how they play in big games, along with quotes from actual voters stating they will vote him in, but it won't change any minds. They'll just go calculate statistics based on 3/4 of a career.

Doesn't fit their agenda

 

[phthalatemagic]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

It sure looks to me that his career is winding down a bit. He probably will never have 100 receptions or 10 TDs again, no matter what sort of offense he is in. For a guy with unimpressive stats in a passing era, this is not good. Not only is he going to stick around for the love of the game, with his yearly numbers decreasing, but he has to wait 5 years after he retires before being considered for the HOF. This gives a large number of WRs ability to catch up to his statistics and make Ward look closer to mortal than he does now. By that time, players like Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans will be close to finishing their careers and most will have likely surpassed Ward's statistics. But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished with his career that may be obviously not HOF material, causing Ward's statistical career look even more irrelevant. So the question you should ask yourself is not "if he keeps up this pace.." but are his other accomplishments enough to overcome his not-HOF worthy statistical ones?

Remember, it's not the FF HOF, it the Pro Football HOF....

Really?

 

[Sheriff66]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

It sure looks to me that his career is winding down a bit. He probably will never have 100 receptions or 10 TDs again, no matter what sort of offense he is in. For a guy with unimpressive stats in a passing era, this is not good. Not only is he going to stick around for the love of the game, with his yearly numbers decreasing, but he has to wait 5 years after he retires before being considered for the HOF. This gives a large number of WRs ability to catch up to his statistics and make Ward look closer to mortal than he does now. By that time, players like Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans will be close to finishing their careers and most will have likely surpassed Ward's statistics. But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished with his career that may be obviously not HOF material, causing Ward's statistical career look even more irrelevant. So the question you should ask yourself is not "if he keeps up this pace.." but are his other accomplishments enough to overcome his not-HOF worthy statistical ones?

Remember, it's not the FF HOF, it the Pro Football HOF....

Really?

Ya, really...

 

[H.K.]

Swann retired after the 1982 season with 336 career receptions for 5,462 yards and 51 touchdowns. He also rushed for 72 yards and gained 739 yards and a touchdown on punt returns. Swann was a pro bowl selection three times (1975, 1977, 1978) and was selected on the 1970s all-decade team.

People knocking Ward only do it based on his receiving stats. Judging him on receiving numbers alone is pretty obtuse.Ward has returned punts, kicks, thrown a few passes, and has been called on to rush the ball successfully over the years....not to mention his blocking ability.The guys is a stud football player. His abilities are unique and he has been a vital reason for the Steelers' consistent success in his career, including a title.When looking at the entire picture, his numbers may not be elite, but his overall performance will be deserving.

 

[phthalatemagic]

But you said before that he has them "already," which implies that his numbers are already good enough for the Hall, but now it is, he will be adding to them? Make up your mind.

What I meant with the word "already", was that his stats are good now, and are on PACE for what many people here are enthralled with, which for some reason are huge stats. This should be implied by my many responses of "he has many years left to play".Sorry if you didn't get that. If this discussion/argument has come down to simple text/mis-reading, then I feel my job is done here. Point is, question was asked if he's a hof'r. As of now, no, nobody is saying that, not even the die-hard fans, however, it's kind of pointless to debate this when he isn't even done playing, and not even nearly done playing. He has many years left, on a good team, where we have seen the offense open up more this year, and along with his intangibles and many big games in regular games and more importantly games that count, and keeps up his pace, he will be a lock.

It sure looks to me that his career is winding down a bit. He probably will never have 100 receptions or 10 TDs again, no matter what sort of offense he is in. For a guy with unimpressive stats in a passing era, this is not good. Not only is he going to stick around for the love of the game, with his yearly numbers decreasing, but he has to wait 5 years after he retires before being considered for the HOF. This gives a large number of WRs ability to catch up to his statistics and make Ward look closer to mortal than he does now. By that time, players like Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, Lee Evans will be close to finishing their careers and most will have likely surpassed Ward's statistics. But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished with his career that may be obviously not HOF material, causing Ward's statistical career look even more irrelevant. So the question you should ask yourself is not "if he keeps up this pace.." but are his other accomplishments enough to overcome his not-HOF worthy statistical ones?

Remember, it's not the FF HOF, it the Pro Football HOF....

Really?

Ya, really...

OK good. So it seems that statistics don't matter to you. I don't know why you bothered to say he has good statistics when they don't matter to you. Good luck!

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

But the thing that would hurt him the most is that even marginal WRs like Deion Branch, Ron Curry, Bryant Johnson, Nate Burleson, Arnaz Battle, Bernard Berrian, Jericho Cotchery, and Mark Clayton could end up passing him in some statistical categories by the time Ward is finished