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Is it time to break up Google? (1 Viewer)

Higgs

Footballguy
Hard to believe this isn't being discussed more these days.  Is Google a monopoly?  Should it be broken up?  Is it time to break up Google?

In just 10 years, the world’s five largest companies by market capitalization have all changed, save for one: Microsoft. Exxon Mobil, General Electric, Citigroup and Shell Oil are out and Apple, Alphabet (the parent company of Google), Amazon and Facebook have taken their place.

They’re all tech companies, and each dominates its corner of the industry: Google has an 88 percent market share in search advertising, Facebook (and its subsidiaries Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger) owns 77 percent of mobile social traffic and Amazon has a 74 percent share in the e-book market. In classic economic terms, all three are monopolies.

We have been transported back to the early 20th century, when arguments about “the curse of bigness” were advanced by President Woodrow Wilson’s counselor, Louis Brandeis, before Wilson appointed him to the Supreme Court. Brandeis wanted to eliminate monopolies, because (in the words of his biographer Melvin Urofsky) “in a democratic society the existence of large centers of private power is dangerous to the continuing vitality of a free people.” We need look no further than the conduct of the largest banks in the 2008 financial crisis or the role that Facebook and Google play in the “fake news” business to know that Brandeis was right.

While Brandeis generally opposed regulation — which, he worried, inevitably led to the corruption of the regulator — and instead advocated breaking up “bigness,” he made an exception for “natural” monopolies, like telephone, water and power companies and railroads, where it made sense to have one or a few companies in control of an industry.

Could it be that these companies — and Google in particular — have become natural monopolies by supplying an entire market’s demand for a service, at a price lower than what would be offered by two competing firms? And if so, is it time to regulate them like public utilities?

Consider a historical analogy: the early days of telecommunications.

In 1895 a photograph of the business district of a large city might have shown 20 phone wires attached to most buildings. Each wire was owned by a different phone company, and none of them worked with the others. Without network effects, the networks themselves were almost useless.

The solution was for a single company, American Telephone and Telegraph, to consolidate the industry by buying up all the small operators and creating a single network — a natural monopoly. The government permitted it, but then regulated this monopoly through the Federal Communications Commission.

AT&T (also known as the Bell System) had its rates regulated, and was required to spend a fixed percentage of its profits on research and development. In 1925 AT&T set up Bell Labs as a separate subsidiary with the mandate to develop the next generation of communications technology, but also to do basic research in physics and other sciences. Over the next 50 years, the basics of the digital age — the transistor, the microchip, the solar cell, the microwave, the laser, cellular telephony — all came out of Bell Labs, along with eight Nobel Prizes.

In a 1956 consent decree in which the Justice Department allowed AT&T to maintain its phone monopoly, the government extracted a huge concession: All past patents were licensed (to any American company) royalty-free, and all future patents were to be licensed for a small fee. These licenses led to the creation of Texas Instruments, Motorola, Fairchild Semiconductor and many other start-ups.

True, the internet never had the same problems of interoperability. And Google’s route to dominance is different from the Bell System’s. Nevertheless it still has all of the characteristics of a public utility.

We are going to have to decide fairly soon whether Google, Facebook and Amazon are the kinds of natural monopolies that need to be regulated, or whether we allow the status quo to continue, pretending that unfettered monoliths don’t inflict damage on our privacy and democracy.

It is impossible to deny that Facebook, Google and Amazon have stymied innovation on a broad scale. To begin with, the platforms of Google and Facebook are the point of access to all media for the majority of Americans. While profits at Google, Facebook and Amazon have soared, revenues in media businesses like newspaper publishing or the music business have, since 2001, fallen by 70 percent.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, newspaper publishers lost over half their employees between 2001 and 2016. Billions of dollars have been reallocated from creators of content to owners of monopoly platforms. All content creators dependent on advertising must negotiate with Google or Facebook as aggregator, the sole lifeline between themselves and the vast internet cloud.

It’s not just newspapers that are hurting. In 2015 two Obama economic advisers, Peter Orszag and Jason Furman, published a paper arguing that the rise in “supernormal returns on capital” at firms with limited competition is leading to a rise in economic inequality. The M.I.T. economists Scott Stern and Jorge Guzman explained that in the presence of these giant firms, “it has become increasingly advantageous to be an incumbent, and less advantageous to be a new entrant.”

There are a few obvious regulations to start with. Monopoly is made by acquisition — Google buying AdMob and DoubleClick, Facebook buying Instagram and WhatsApp, Amazon buying, to name just a few, Audible, Twitch, Zappos and Alexa. At a minimum, these companies should not be allowed to acquire other major firms, like Spotify or Snapchat.

The second alternative is to regulate a company like Google as a public utility, requiring it to license out patents, for a nominal fee, for its search algorithms, advertising exchanges and other key innovations.

The third alternative is to remove the “safe harbor” clause in the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which allows companies like Facebook and Google’s YouTube to free ride on the content produced by others. The reason there are 40,000 Islamic State videos on YouTube, many with ads that yield revenue for those who posted them, is that YouTube does not have to take responsibility for the content on its network. Facebook, Google and Twitter claim that policing their networks would be too onerous. But that’s preposterous: They already police their networks for pornography, and quite well.

Removing the safe harbor provision would also force social networks to pay for the content posted on their sites. A simple example: One million downloads of a song on iTunes would yield the performer and his record label about $900,000. One million streams of that same song on YouTube would earn them about $900.

I’m under no delusion that, with libertarian tech moguls like Peter Thiel in President Trump’s inner circle, antitrust regulation of the internet monopolies will be a priority. Ultimately we may have to wait four years, at which time the monopolies will be so dominant that the only remedy will be to break them up. Force Google to sell DoubleClick. Force Facebook to sell WhatsApp and Instagram.

Woodrow Wilson was right when he said in 1913, “If monopoly persists, monopoly will always sit at the helm of the government.”  We ignore his words at our peril.
 
All the tech companies are in danger from competitors.  Not really seeing a true monopoly from any of them.  

 
How do you recommend breaking up Facebook to reduce an individual company's market share on traffic? Or Google to reduce one company's market share on search advertising? Or Amazon to reduce one company's share of e-books?

You can't subdivide these companies by geography like the phone companies. 

 
They have started making inroads as a travel consolidator.  I know they are planning on entering the insurance sector as well.  

 
Article premise is super weak.  Stinky bait, stinky fisherman.  
There are some interesting individual points, but not sure that many of them really relate to the monopoly issue.  Not sure what the point about newspapers losing employees has to with the premise.  Seems perhaps some sort of agenda...

 
How do you recommend breaking up Facebook to reduce an individual company's market share on traffic? Or Google to reduce one company's market share on search advertising? Or Amazon to reduce one company's share of e-books?

You can't subdivide these companies by geography like the phone companies. 
I mean Microsoft did settle their bundling antitrust case...one could certainly make the case that Google and Amazon do as well (Apple as well with their closed app system).  

Even if the DOJ went down that route at some point, I have no idea what the remedy would be.

 
The third alternative is to remove the “safe harbor” clause in the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which allows companies like Facebook and Google’s YouTube to free ride on the content produced by others. The reason there are 40,000 Islamic State videos on YouTube, many with ads that yield revenue for those who posted them, is that YouTube does not have to take responsibility for the content on its network. Facebook, Google and Twitter claim that policing their networks would be too onerous. But that’s preposterous: They already police their networks for pornography, and quite well.

Removing the safe harbor provision would also force social networks to pay for the content posted on their sites. A simple example: One million downloads of a song on iTunes would yield the performer and his record label about $900,000. One million streams of that same song on YouTube would earn them about $900.
This would be highly destructive of free speech.

The second alternative is to regulate a company like Google as a public utility, requiring it to license out patents, for a nominal fee, for its search algorithms, advertising exchanges and other key innovations.
Flat out socialist.

We are going to have to decide fairly soon whether Google, Facebook and Amazon are the kinds of natural monopolies that need to be regulated, or whether we allow the status quo to continue, pretending that unfettered monoliths don’t inflict damage on our privacy and democracy.
I find this puzzling.

- The internet privacy issue was just obliterated by Trump and the GOP Congress in permitting ISPs to sell user histories. It's easy to protect privacy - PROTECT IT.

- As for democracy, giving the US government regulation over search engines and social media seems like a ludicrously bad idea.

Honestly anyone who believes in free speech and democracy, not to mention capitalism, should be against all this.

And frankly I don't use google except rarely when I need it for research at work. If you want to avoid it you can.

 
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1) The DMCA, IIRC, was one of the more fascistic/tyrannical pieces of copyright law there has been. It should be largely abolished. It also killed the DAT, which was a cool format.  

2) The trust-busting aspect of this is progressive, and I wonder why more progressives aren't behind this, I'll give you that. 

3) Our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence would go quite a long way in making sure we're still a private democracy. As it is, our Congress and Judiciary inflict a whole lot more damage to our privacy and democracy than any of these monoliths (and they are monoliths)

4) Are you insinuating that it's because they and their supporters vote Democrat in droves that both Democrats -- and lefties on the board -- aren't calling for them to be nationally regulated? If so, I totally agree with you on that one, Higgs.  

 
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General Tso calls out only company on the list of current "monopolies" run by a dark skinned fellow.

It is almost as if i could have guessed before I looked it up.

eta - it looks like llama hit this before me. :lmao:

 
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Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
Sees title  "Is it time to break up Google?" Started by Higgs

Ironically Googles "is google owned by a minority or Muslim"
Gee, Baby Monkey Riding A Pig liked your post. How would he know about the lefty charge against Higgs within eight posts of joining the board?

Now you can look at me in the other thread and say 

"wat?"

 
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It is impossible to deny that Facebook, Google and Amazon have stymied innovation on a broad scale. To begin with, the platforms of Google and Facebook are the point of access to all media for the majority of Americans. While profits at Google, Facebook and Amazon have soared, revenues in media businesses like newspaper publishing or the music business have, since 2001, fallen by 70 percent.
I find this paragraph to be especially confusing.  The first sentence presents a debatable statement as simple truth, and I don't see how that statement leads to the next two sentences at all.

Also, even assuming those ideas do fit together, wouldn't it be more appropriate to focus on the digital side of the media businesses when discussing it along with Google and Facebook, and isn't that side of NYT actually doing pretty well lately?

 
Higgs said:
Could it be that these companies — and Google in particular — have become natural monopolies by supplying an entire market’s demand for a service, at a price lower than what would be offered by two competing firms? And if so, is it time to regulate them like public utilities?
So they should be regulated to increase prices?

 
General Tso calls out only company on the list of current "monopolies" run by a dark skinned fellow.

It is almost as if i could have guessed before I looked it up.

eta - it looks like llama hit this before me. :lmao:
Awe, Pacquiao is back.  Where you been buddy?  Out training for the big fight?   :lol:

I didn't call out anything.  The NY Times did.  The title of the thread is the exact same as the title of the article.  But I know reading is hard for you isn't it Nurse Ratchet?  

 
Awe, Pacquiao is back.  Where you been buddy?  Out training for the big fight?   :lol:

I didn't call out anything.  The NY Times did.  The title of the thread is the exact same as the title of the article.  But I know reading is hard for you isn't it Nurse Ratchet?  
:lmao:

Not only that, where'd Man Bear Pig go? 

:lmao:  

 

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