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Is Troy Smith undervalued in terms of potential? (1 Viewer)

D

Dazz

Footballguy
From the start of this season all he’s shown is ability and poise, yet for some reason he’s still regarded as someone multiple tiers below Brady Quinn/Brian Brohm in terms of NFL talent. Does that bother anyone else? Watching him play it’s hard to pick out any faults; he makes his reads and stays in the pocket long enough to progress through receivers; he’s calm and only looks to run after his options are exhausted and is more than willing to step into a pass-rush to make his throw; he can throw on the run, but will attempt to square his body before doing so; has well above-average arm strength and accuracy; and he has a very, very good release point.

All I’ve been is impressed by him, and honestly I can’t think of many quarterbacks in recent college seasons that have shown more skill. I know some cite his height as a concern, but doesn’t Drew Brees prove that ability is more important than stature?

Consider me a part of the Troy Smith bandwagon. I think the guy is going to be the best QB in the draft, and that any team taking Quinn/Brohm ahead of him is making a mistake.

 
Dazz said:
From the start of this season all he’s shown is ability and poise, yet for some reason he’s still regarded as someone multiple tiers below Brady Quinn/Brian Brohm in terms of NFL talent. Does that bother anyone else? Watching him play it’s hard to pick out any faults; he makes his reads and stays in the pocket long enough to progress through receivers; he’s calm and only looks to run after his options are exhausted and is more than willing to step into a pass-rush to make his throw; he can throw on the run, but will attempt to square his body before doing so; has well above-average arm strength and accuracy; and he has a very, very good release point.All I’ve been is impressed by him, and honestly I can’t think of many quarterbacks in recent college seasons that have shown more skill. I know some cite his height as a concern, but doesn’t Drew Brees prove that ability is more important than stature?Consider me a part of the Troy Smith bandwagon. I think the guy is going to be the best QB in the draft, and that any team taking Quinn/Brohm ahead of him is making a mistake.
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I've been impressed with him for a while now. I think the height issue will prevent some teams from drafting him too high - but I think some team should take him and give him a chance to start someday.
 
I don't think he'll ever play a down in the NFL as a quarterback. I don't know why that is, it's just a feeling.

 
I think Brohm and Quinn are better prospects but Smith has advanced well up the draft board with his season. He's quickly earning himself a first round draft grade.

At this point I could see him going in the mid-to-late section of the opening round... With the success of Brees (another 6 foot qb), I doubt Smith falls too far...

 
If you're counting his turnovers in this game, one was a tip (that he admittedly forced into coverage) and the other two were absolutely terrible snaps (one just now happening). He did spectacular in his previous 'big' games, most notably against Michigan and Notre Dame last year. He wasn't given much of a chance at all against Texas and the Penn State that season, and against Texas this year he performed very well. I'm not sure if the Iowa game should count since that was more of a trap game than true pressure, but he was up to the task then, too.

Either way, he has the rest of this game to cement his ability to step up. It's not like he's been bad, either, at 26/37 and 3 TD.

 
While I can't read Slider's mind, I'm guessing he meant pressure as in a pass rush, not pressure as in a big game.

 
it appears as though most of his throws are 1 to 2 reads and they are generally pre-snap reads...

when the camera angle was behind him (the birds eye camera it's called i think), it was obvious he was throwing to a spot and not necessarily based on the post-snap read. Plus it looked like he couldn't even see where he was throwing based on his height.

He's a good college player, but most assuredly a product of the system and has virtually no shot at being an NFL QB

 
Would you consider him a better NFL prospect than than Seneca Wallace? Or is he similar to Brad Smith - likely to switch positions?

 
FGITLOTR said:
Slider said:
Looks like when the pressure is on he gets timid.
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Are you kidding me? He's as clutch as they come--he's dominated Michigan for the past three years. On the nation's biggest stage, he cemented his hold on the Heisman
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He definitely deserves the heisman. He should send Vince a thank you note for leaving early. Also, that Mich defender who committed that stupid foul deserves a round of thanks from Troy. McFaddin or Slaten might have snuck by him had they lost.
 
RenegadeGM said:
Would you consider him a better NFL prospect than than Seneca Wallace? Or is he similar to Brad Smith - likely to switch positions?
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how fast is he? It seems that he has "toned down" his running ability this year compared to years past. And no, not as good a "prospect" as Wallace, though certainly a better college player.
 
Dt said:
RenegadeGM said:
Would you consider him a better NFL prospect than than Seneca Wallace? Or is he similar to Brad Smith - likely to switch positions?
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how fast is he? It seems that he has "toned down" his running ability this year compared to years past. And no, not as good a "prospect" as Wallace, though certainly a better college player.
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Of course now that we've seen what Wallace can do, he isn't. I think Wallace went to a good situation and received some solid coaching though, and worked to get better at being a pro QB. I don't remember him being highly regarded as a QB coming out, despite his outstanding college career.Brad Smith had a pretty good career too and hasn't sniffed the QB position other than some gadget plays and the 4th quarter of a preseason game. Maybe Troy Smith falls somewhere in between these guys.
 
RenegadeGM said:
Dt said:
RenegadeGM said:
Would you consider him a better NFL prospect than than Seneca Wallace? Or is he similar to Brad Smith - likely to switch positions?
Click to expand...
how fast is he? It seems that he has "toned down" his running ability this year compared to years past. And no, not as good a "prospect" as Wallace, though certainly a better college player.
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Of course now that we've seen what Wallace can do, he isn't. I think Wallace went to a good situation and received some solid coaching though, and worked to get better at being a pro QB. I don't remember him being highly regarded as a QB coming out, despite his outstanding college career.Brad Smith had a pretty good career too and hasn't sniffed the QB position other than some gadget plays and the 4th quarter of a preseason game. Maybe Troy Smith falls somewhere in between these guys.
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I am with you completely, but without the physical prerequesites, he couldn't ever be more than jason garrett IMO. btw, i don't mean jason garrett in terms of physical attributes so much as career emergency qb's
 
Dt said:
RenegadeGM said:
Dt said:
RenegadeGM said:
Would you consider him a better NFL prospect than than Seneca Wallace? Or is he similar to Brad Smith - likely to switch positions?
Click to expand...
how fast is he? It seems that he has "toned down" his running ability this year compared to years past. And no, not as good a "prospect" as Wallace, though certainly a better college player.
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Of course now that we've seen what Wallace can do, he isn't. I think Wallace went to a good situation and received some solid coaching though, and worked to get better at being a pro QB. I don't remember him being highly regarded as a QB coming out, despite his outstanding college career.Brad Smith had a pretty good career too and hasn't sniffed the QB position other than some gadget plays and the 4th quarter of a preseason game. Maybe Troy Smith falls somewhere in between these guys.
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I am with you completely, but without the physical prerequesites, he couldn't ever be more than jason garrett IMO. btw, i don't mean jason garrett in terms of physical attributes so much as career emergency qb's
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That's why I bring up Wallace, who is only 5'11" as well. He's developed due to situation/coaching/work ethic.I think it would take a smiliar good situation for Smith.
 
so I'd acquiese that his potential upside is backup qb (rather than 3rd)

but even though wallace is doing well filling in, do you see anything that would make you believe he'll ever get a starting gig?

 
Dt said:
so I'd acquiese that his potential upside is backup qb (rather than 3rd)but even though wallace is doing well filling in, do you see anything that would make you believe he'll ever get a starting gig?
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I think we agree here... Wallace is the guy Smith could become if all breaks right.
 
I think we agree here... Wallace is the guy Smith could become if all breaks right.
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Hmmmmm...so he's going to be a player who NEVER sees the field for 4 Years and then gets some snaps as a back-up.Yet EVERY Draft website and Scout that has spoken about him has him as a Mid-lat 1st round or early 2nd round pick.I don't know...maybe you're smarter than Pro NFL Scouts.But NOBODY..I repeat NOBODY had Seneca Wallace as a FIRST DAY pick, much less a 1st round pick.The comparison is as AWFUL as you can make.Wallace was NOTHING MORE than a scrambler in College.Troy Smith is a Pocket passer who can run when he needs to. Granted, the size issue will scare off some Teams, but He'll be a Starter in the NFL by his 2nd year. Mark that down.The BEST Comparison is to Drew Brees. A Shorter QB who lit up the Big 10 and played great competition over his career.Drew Brees with a stronger arm and more running ability.I'll take that in the late 1st or early 2nd round ANYDAY.Seneca Wallace...give me a break.
 
Gerg73 said:
I think we agree here... Wallace is the guy Smith could become if all breaks right.
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Hmmmmm...so he's going to be a player who NEVER sees the field for 4 Years and then gets some snaps as a back-up.Yet EVERY Draft website and Scout that has spoken about him has him as a Mid-lat 1st round or early 2nd round pick.I don't know...maybe you're smarter than Pro NFL Scouts.But NOBODY..I repeat NOBODY had Seneca Wallace as a FIRST DAY pick, much less a 1st round pick.The comparison is as AWFUL as you can make.Wallace was NOTHING MORE than a scrambler in College.Troy Smith is a Pocket passer who can run when he needs to. Granted, the size issue will scare off some Teams, but He'll be a Starter in the NFL by his 2nd year. Mark that down.The BEST Comparison is to Drew Brees. A Shorter QB who lit up the Big 10 and played great competition over his career.Drew Brees with a stronger arm and more running ability.I'll take that in the late 1st or early 2nd round ANYDAY.Seneca Wallace...give me a break.
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We'll see. More people seem to agree he won't be a star than will. But we're all just guessing anyway, right?
 
Gerg73 said:
I think we agree here... Wallace is the guy Smith could become if all breaks right.
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Wallace was NOTHING MORE than a scrambler in College.Troy Smith is a Pocket passer who can run when he needs to. Seneca Wallace...give me a break.
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S. Wallace 2002: 3245 pass yards, 16 TD... 437 rush yards, 8 TD 2001: 2044 pass yards, 11 TD... 475 rush yards, 7 TDT. Smith 2006: 2507 pass yards, 30 TD... 233 rush yards, 1 TD (season almost complete) 2005: 2282 pass yards, 16 TD... 611 rush yards, 11 TDSmith has thrown an amzing 30 TDs this season, but outside of this I fail to see where he is head and shoulders bove Wallace statistically. Add to this the fact that Wallace's supporting cast at Iowa State is not nearly what Smith had to work with.Don't get me wrong, Smith has been phenomenal this year. However, being 5'11" he will have an "uphill" battle his entire career. To ignore the fact that QBs under 6'0" have historically not fared well is to have blinders on.Smith won't be the first talented quality college QB to possibly not translate to the NFL or the last. In fact, the stats above show Wallace IS a comparable case.If he can overcome his size and star as soon as his second season as the poster suggested, more power to him.
 
Smith has the advantage of being the quarterback on the best team in the country.

History is full of quarterbacks who looked great in college, simply because the defenses were overmatched at every position.

Smith reminds me of a more mobile Danny Wuerful. Wuerful had sick statistics in school, but it didn't translate to the next level.

For every Rivers, Manning, or Palmer, there's a dozen Wuerful, Heath Shuler, and Ryan Leafs. Lately, it seems like it's the kid who had success without a great suporting cast who makes it big at the next level.

 
JuniorNB said:
Smith has the advantage of being the quarterback on the best team in the country. History is full of quarterbacks who looked great in college, simply because the defenses were overmatched at every position.Smith reminds me of a more mobile Danny Wuerful. Wuerful had sick statistics in school, but it didn't translate to the next level. For every Rivers, Manning, or Palmer, there's a dozen Wuerful, Heath Shuler, and Ryan Leafs. Lately, it seems like it's the kid who had success without a great suporting cast who makes it big at the next level.
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I was thinking about Gino Toretta, but Wuerful works just as well.Smith has looked great this year, but I think that's mostly due to the talent around him. Of course, I sorta thought the same thing about Carson Palmer, but with the caveat that Palmer's got NFL size while Smith doesn't.I think Smith may make it in the NFL, but I don't think he's got what it takes to be a starter or have any fantasy impact (and that's what really counts, right?)
 
I agree that Smith will have an uphill battle in terms od prejudice against his size. But if he is given a chance, I think he could make it in the NFL. He's really not a scrambler at all anymore. He is a pocket passer with tremendous ability. His arm is strong and acurate. He also has touch. Not only that, he is a very cool customer in the face of pressure.

Ive seen people compare him to Drew Brees, and I feel the comparison is fairly acurate in terms of physical gifts. The real x factor is his ability to read defenses. Since Ohio State has such great talent, we cant really be sure yet if Smith can do it at the next level, but I would like to see him get a shot.

Prediction - drafted in the 3rd or 4th round by either the Eagles or Ravens.

 
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Not off the bandwagon, but trying to keep the horses from fleeing in terror. Ohio State as a team got horribly outplayed tonight. They looked like a second rate program against Florida and were abused like one. What I will I try and keep in perspective is that Smith never got time in the pocket, and was consistently under heavy fire from all directions. It's hard for me to discredit what he's done this season based on this game because of that; just the same, it wouldn't be fair to assess him based on a game against Bowling Green or Eastern Michigan. You have to take the body of work.

At this point I still like his physical skills and the way he carries himself. Am I concerned about his performance against UF? Of course I am, his team crumbled under the spotlight. I just think there were multiple other problems on the field that contributed to his issues. That's not to put the blame entirely on the rest of his team, but to say it was entirely his fault is wrong. The OSU offensive line was ransacked, and Troy Smith did a poor job of making up for them. When he did have time, his receivers failed to get separation. The entire team dropped the ball.

Big ups to the Gators and Chris Leak in specific. The guy has been criticized since he stepped on campus and there couldn't be more justice in him leaving with a national championship. And that entire defensive line is talented.

 
Troy Smith and the rest of OSU peaked about two months ago. They won what they had to, played well against Michigan, then had this ridiculously long layoff. It would be impossible for any team to maintain that edge during such a layoff. If effect, they would have had to "come down," then gear up again. Think of the NFL. Rarely is the team peaking around playoff time the same as the one which was hot midseason.

Not trying to be an apologist because I couldn't care less about the game last night. And 35 yards is just 35 more than I had. I just think that now Smith may be more undervalued in terms of potential for the NFL. In short...BUY LOW! (maybe) :thumbup:

 
Jedeye said:
I agree that Smith will have an uphill battle in terms od prejudice against his size. But if he is given a chance, I think he could make it in the NFL. He's really not a scrambler at all anymore. He is a pocket passer with tremendous ability. His arm is strong and acurate. He also has touch. Not only that, he is a very cool customer in the face of pressure.

Ive seen people compare him to Drew Brees, and I feel the comparison is fairly acurate in terms of physical gifts. The real x factor is his ability to read defenses. Since Ohio State has such great talent, we cant really be sure yet if Smith can do it at the next level, but I would like to see him get a shot.

Prediction - drafted in the 3rd or 4th round by either the Eagles or Ravens.
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Or not. 3rd or 4th is still entirely possible. I doubt he makes it past 4.03/4.04 - Cleveland's pick if they don't take Quinn. I'd even like the pick if the Lions got him in the 4th.However, in his first game under real adversity, he flat out played horribly. It isn't that his stats were bad in this game, it's that he lost any courage he had. He wouldn't make throws when the WR was pretty wide open (although they weren't often).

 
You know 24 hours ago I read where Smith was going first round and in some cases early second and now I hear comments of him not being drafted? :hot:

Crazy how one game can change all that.

 
He'll go second round unless somebody can tell me more than 3 QB's that will be picked before him.

As far as a comparison I see a strange cross between Doug Flutie and Steve Young.

 
Kip Dynamite said:
You know 24 hours ago I read where Smith was going first round and in some cases early second and now I hear comments of him not being drafted? :thumbup: Crazy how one game can change all that.
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I guess the moral of the story is: if you're going to suck during a football game, don't do it during the National Championship.
 
chris1969 said:
He'll go second round unless somebody can tell me more than 3 QB's that will be picked before him.As far as a comparison I see a strange cross between Doug Flutie and Steve Young.
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1. Russell2. Brohm3. Quinn4. Stanton5. Troy SmithIf Brennan declared he'd go ahead of Smith as well.
 
Robert said:
No, I think he is over rated. How about poor arm strength?
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Uhm the guy has arms the size of tree trunks and hits Gonzales and Ginn routinely on deep passes without breaking their stride and before that he did the same thing with Ginn and Holmes.Also I don't think Stanton goes above Troy, but even if he did, that would still make Troy a second rounder.
 
This time last year, I (correctly) noted that Kiper was a fool for thinking Leinart/Young/Culter would go in round 1 and Jacobs would fall to round 4 (his prediction) as QB4. That said, this class is very shaky after the top2 if Brohm doesn't declare. Do I expect Stanton, Smith, et al to slide to day 2? no way. But i wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if it happens. Round 2 QBs are not often taken by teams looking for their franchise guy but rather teams with the luxury or developing a guy w/ lots of talent who just isn't quite "great." Croyle and Clemens qualify for that category much sooner then Smith and Stanton. For example, I think Kyle ORton and Charlie Frye BOTH will have graded better then Stanton and Smith.

 
Just wanted to add a GO GATORS!

And now....T Smith isnt THAT bad - but people should not have been so quick to dismiss the Gators.

They took alot of teams best offense away.

IMO The D Line and Safteys for the Gators are THAT good. T Smith is still pretty good too.

 
Dazz said:
Not off the bandwagon, but trying to keep the horses from fleeing in terror. Ohio State as a team got horribly outplayed tonight. They looked like a second rate program against Florida and were abused like one. What I will I try and keep in perspective is that Smith never got time in the pocket, and was consistently under heavy fire from all directions. It's hard for me to discredit what he's done this season based on this game because of that; just the same, it wouldn't be fair to assess him based on a game against Bowling Green or Eastern Michigan. You have to take the body of work.

At this point I still like his physical skills and the way he carries himself. Am I concerned about his performance against UF? Of course I am, his team crumbled under the spotlight. I just think there were multiple other problems on the field that contributed to his issues. That's not to put the blame entirely on the rest of his team, but to say it was entirely his fault is wrong. The OSU offensive line was ransacked, and Troy Smith did a poor job of making up for them. When he did have time, his receivers failed to get separation. The entire team dropped the ball.

Big ups to the Gators and Chris Leak in specific. The guy has been criticized since he stepped on campus and there couldn't be more justice in him leaving with a national championship. And that entire defensive line is talented.
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:popcorn:
 
Dazz said:
What I will I try and keep in perspective is that Smith never got time in the pocket, and was consistently under heavy fire from all directions.
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Smith was indeed under lots of pressure but this statement is totally inaccurate. I was at the game and there were several plays where he just stood back in the pocket for what seemed like forever and couldn't find anyone, so to say "never" here is a big stretch.
 
FreeBaGeL said:
Dazz said:
What I will I try and keep in perspective is that Smith never got time in the pocket, and was consistently under heavy fire from all directions.
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Smith was indeed under lots of pressure but this statement is totally inaccurate. I was at the game and there were several plays where he just stood back in the pocket for what seemed like forever and couldn't find anyone, so to say "never" here is a big stretch.
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You're right, I shouldn't have said 'never'. There were moments when he had time in the pocket and couldn't find a receiver; I specifically remember that on more than one occasion he seemingly made the decision to throw and hesitantly pulled the ball down. The problem I find is that from tv angles, there is no way for me to know whether or not he was right in doing so or if he simply failed to find the open receiver. As someone who was at the game and could see the whole field, could you say whether he was being conservative, missing open receivers, or if it was a case of them not being open?
 
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