It would be a horrible message if MERRIMAN won DPOY (1 Viewer)

[UCLAGIE]

SHAWNE MERRIMAN IS

"PLAYER OF THE YEAR" FOR THE SALVATION ARMY

Did you know that when Shawne Merriman is not on the football field or in training, he often is spending his time helping others? For example, Merriman frequently serves dinner to those in need at The Salvation Army's downtown center. He joins Chargers Security Director **** Lewis and other Chargers staff, coaches and players (as well as teens in the McAlister Recovery program) to prepare a meal of soup and sandwiches. After serving the many who come to The Salvation Army for prayer and food, Merriman then talks with the teens about turning their lives around. Recently, Merriman and teammate Jacques Cesaire tossed a football around with the teens and signed autographs before talking and praying with them.

When Shawne Merriman heard that Salvation Army Red Kettle donations were down 11 %, he offered to ring the bell for the Army. He stood by his Red Kettle at the Murphy Canyon Wal-Mart, greeting fans and telling them about the good The Salvation Army does.

Throughout the entire year, Shawne Merriman is definitely a MVP for The Salvation Army in San Diego!!

 

[Trey]

He can probably prepare a lot more meals of soup and sandwiches after he does his steroids right?

 

[T Man]

He can probably prepare a lot more meals of soup and sandwiches after he does his steroids right?

Looks like your aimin' for a "Light's Out T-Shirt" and some popcorn just like Jason Taylor.

 

[Warhogs]

I thought Merriman was claiming that the failed test was a result of a tainted sample? I know that this is highly unlikely but I do wonder sometimes what the probability is of a failed test being inaccurate? I have to think it is possible?

 

[Trey]

I just get riled up because this award should CLEARLY be going to Jason Taylor this year.

Taylor - 40 Tackles/20 Assists/13.5 Sacks/2 Ints & 2 TDs/9 Forced Fumbles

Not to mention, Merriman was suspended for PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS!

How do you reward that with a DPOY?

 

[PatsWillWin]

So service in the Salvation Army is which defensive stat?

 

[mad sweeney]

I thought Merriman was claiming that the failed test was a result of a tainted sample? I know that this is highly unlikely but I do wonder sometimes what the probability is of a failed test being inaccurate? I have to think it is possible?

Not a failed sample but a non crtified supplement. The NFL provides a list of "safe" supplements whose ingredients are gauranteed by the NFL not to contain any banned substances. His claim is that he used a non certified supplement and it contained a banned substance. He's been tested before and since and this is the only time he came up positive. So let me ask this, was there a difference in his performance before and after his suspension? Did what he took give him an unfair edge that he didn't have without it? I have to say no. It is just as probable that it was an honest mistake as it was that he was intentionally taking a banned substance. He served his time and STILL has the stats to warrant consideration for the award. To me Taylor is a chump and his tirade was no more than a smear campaign, Karl Rove style, so he can get the award. Boost yourself up by putting the competition down. As to Merriman's off field activities, it's been well documented how much help he gives the homeless ever since college. Having been homeless before and making it through high school by living with a coach after his family's house burned down twice he hs a very heart felt appreciation for their situation and has done a ton of work. However, that has no influence on the DPOY award. However, for those saying he is not a role model to youngsters they are dead wrong. You have to give people a chance to make up for their mistakes, even if he DID take it intentionally. But bottom line, I didn't see any drop in performance after he stopped taking it which leads me to believe he didn't need the enhancement to begin with. Which bolsters his claim, IMO. His 4 games off should balance out for the "enhanced" stats that he acquired before the suspension. And I still claim that Taylor is a punk for whining about it. I lost a lot of respect or him.

 

[UCLAGIE]

I thought Merriman was claiming that the failed test was a result of a tainted sample? I know that this is highly unlikely but I do wonder sometimes what the probability is of a failed test being inaccurate? I have to think it is possible?

Not a failed sample but a non crtified supplement. The NFL provides a list of "safe" supplements whose ingredients are gauranteed by the NFL not to contain any banned substances. His claim is that he used a non certified supplement and it contained a banned substance. He's been tested before and since and this is the only time he came up positive. So let me ask this, was there a difference in his performance before and after his suspension? Did what he took give him an unfair edge that he didn't have without it? I have to say no. It is just as probable that it was an honest mistake as it was that he was intentionally taking a banned substance. He served his time and STILL has the stats to warrant consideration for the award. To me Taylor is a chump and his tirade was no more than a smear campaign, Karl Rove style, so he can get the award. Boost yourself up by putting the competition down. As to Merriman's off field activities, it's been well documented how much help he gives the homeless ever since college. Having been homeless before and making it through high school by living with a coach after his family's house burned down twice he hs a very heart felt appreciation for their situation and has done a ton of work. However, that has no influence on the DPOY award. However, for those saying he is not a role model to youngsters they are dead wrong. You have to give people a chance to make up for their mistakes, even if he DID take it intentionally. But bottom line, I didn't see any drop in performance after he stopped taking it which leads me to believe he didn't need the enhancement to begin with. Which bolsters his claim, IMO. His 4 games off should balance out for the "enhanced" stats that he acquired before the suspension. And I still claim that Taylor is a punk for whining about it. I lost a lot of respect or him.

 

[lord_helmet]

Merriman is a spectacular player, but who cares what he does on his own time ? He was caught CHEATING. With the weak policies of the league I bet he is only the tip of the iceberg, there's prolly lots of players juicing up. But that still doesn't change the fact that he was actually caught and the league has an image to care about. IMO it would be a mistake to hand him that award in the same season he tested positive.

 

[JuniorNB]

Please post a link to anyone ever failing a steroid test and saying, "Oops. You caught me. I was trying to gain an unfair advantage".

Point is, Merriman made up some excuse, just like every single other player does when he's busted. Please don't tell me that anyone really thinks he hadn't been knowingly taking illegal supplements.

 

[Borat]

I thought Merriman was claiming that the failed test was a result of a tainted sample? I know that this is highly unlikely but I do wonder sometimes what the probability is of a failed test being inaccurate? I have to think it is possible?

Not a failed sample but a non crtified supplement. The NFL provides a list of "safe" supplements whose ingredients are gauranteed by the NFL not to contain any banned substances. His claim is that he used a non certified supplement and it contained a banned substance. He's been tested before and since and this is the only time he came up positive. So let me ask this, was there a difference in his performance before and after his suspension? Did what he took give him an unfair edge that he didn't have without it? I have to say no. It is just as probable that it was an honest mistake as it was that he was intentionally taking a banned substance. He served his time and STILL has the stats to warrant consideration for the award. To me Taylor is a chump and his tirade was no more than a smear campaign, Karl Rove style, so he can get the award. Boost yourself up by putting the competition down. As to Merriman's off field activities, it's been well documented how much help he gives the homeless ever since college. Having been homeless before and making it through high school by living with a coach after his family's house burned down twice he hs a very heart felt appreciation for their situation and has done a ton of work. However, that has no influence on the DPOY award. However, for those saying he is not a role model to youngsters they are dead wrong. You have to give people a chance to make up for their mistakes, even if he DID take it intentionally. But bottom line, I didn't see any drop in performance after he stopped taking it which leads me to believe he didn't need the enhancement to begin with. Which bolsters his claim, IMO. His 4 games off should balance out for the "enhanced" stats that he acquired before the suspension. And I still claim that Taylor is a punk for whining about it. I lost a lot of respect or him.

Let's say that he did take steroids, or some other illegal performance enhancing drugs. Let's say he took steroids, and was able to break through a weight lifting plateau. Or let's say he took them for awhile (or even just for one cycle), and he built up a bunch of muscle while on them.Do you think the muscle he built up just magically disappears immediately once he stops taking them? Because that is essentially what you are arguing when you bring up his performance pre- and post-suspension and compare them.

The guy cheated, and got caught. If he did it on purpose, he's a cheater, and he knew he was cheating. He wouldn't be sorry he cheated; he'd be sorry he got caught.

If it was really an honest mistake, then he's really an honest-to-god moron for not either sticking to the NFL's list or giving the supplement to his team to be tested before he took it (which is what many players do).

I love how you guys rip Jason Taylor for his honesty with the Merriman situation. Taylor has been all class since he's come into the league - and this is coming from a fan of a Patriots team that Taylor has terrorized for years. You rip Taylor for telling it like it is, and defend Merriman for failing a drug test. Unbelievable.

I wouldn't have lost nearly as much respect for Merriman if he'd taken a page from teammate Luis Castillo's book and just been up front and honest about the situation.

 

[Borat]

Please post a link to anyone ever failing a steroid test and saying, "Oops. You caught me. I was trying to gain an unfair advantage".Point is, Merriman made up some excuse, just like every single other player does when he's busted. Please don't tell me that anyone really thinks he hadn't been knowingly taking illegal supplements.

Luis Castillo

 

[lord_helmet]

His excuse is the same as every bikerider ever tested positive uses, but they get a real ban of minimum 2 years not a slap on the wrist and a trophy after the season.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I love how people think that steroids is like a magic potion, and if you stop taking it one day, suddenly you're back to your pre-steroids self.

 

[Gr00vus]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

 

[mad sweeney]

Please post a link to anyone ever failing a steroid test and saying, "Oops. You caught me. I was trying to gain an unfair advantage".Point is, Merriman made up some excuse, just like every single other player does when he's busted. Please don't tell me that anyone really thinks he hadn't been knowingly taking illegal supplements.

I don't have a link but when Shaun Springs was suspended while still with the Seahawks he copped to using a banned substance to rehab a torn leg muscle.

 

[UCLAGIE]

I love how people ignore his "clean" Rookie DPOY performance last year

 

[Borat]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

Who is acting like that?

 

[PatsWillWin]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

I love people who use the "well everyone else does" it excuse. 5th grade down?

 

[Despyzer]

I love how people conveniently forget Julius Peppers' DROY award.

 

[Gr00vus]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

I love people who use the "well everyone else does" it excuse. 5th grade down?

It's not an excuse - it's a comment on the ridiculousness of the outrage people have over this barely unsanctioned "cheating."Folks, there's no easter bunny, they do shoot horses, astronauts really landed on the moon and many, many NFL players really do take steroids and other performance enhancing substances. When punter Todd Saurbrun is using, it's time to take your indignation to more deserving locales. This ship has sailed, the only thing to be determined is how to work PR damage control when someone is dumb enough to get caught.

 

[Borat]

I love all the love in this thread.

 

[Borat]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

I love people who use the "well everyone else does" it excuse. 5th grade down?

It's not an excuse - it's a comment on the ridiculousness of the outrage people have over this barely unsanctioned "cheating."Folks, there's no easter bunny, they do shoot horses, astronauts really landed on the moon and many, many NFL players really do take steroids and other performance enhancing substances. When punter Todd Saurbrun is using, it's time to take your indignation to more deserving locales. This ship has sailed, the only thing to be determined is how to work PR damage control when someone is dumb enough to get caught.

Wait - are you saying that not every player who uses performance enhancing drugs gets caught?I hadn't considered that previously. This changes my perspective on everything.

 

[Despyzer]

I just get riled up because this award should CLEARLY be going to Jason Taylor this year.Taylor - 40 Tackles/20 Assists/13.5 Sacks/2 Ints & 2 TDs/9 Forced Fumbles

Merriman has more tackles, more sacks, and almost as many INTs despite playing 25% fewer games.If you want to argue stats, CLEARLY Merriman is in the discussion.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

I love people who use the "well everyone else does" it excuse. 5th grade down?

It's not an excuse - it's a comment on the ridiculousness of the outrage people have over this barely unsanctioned "cheating."Folks, there's no easter bunny, they do shoot horses, astronauts really landed on the moon and many, many NFL players really do take steroids and other performance enhancing substances. When punter Todd Saurbrun is using, it's time to take your indignation to more deserving locales. This ship has sailed, the only thing to be determined is how to work PR damage control when someone is dumb enough to get caught.

Fine, you think it's okay for everyone to take steroids. We disagree.

 

[Gr00vus]

Wait - are you saying that not every player who uses performance enhancing drugs gets caught?I hadn't considered that previously. This changes my perspective on everything.

Nope. I'm saying using is an intrical part of the game now, which if you and others accepted it would change your perspective of the game and expectations of the players. The getting caught/not getting caught is an afterthought at that point.

 

[lord_helmet]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

I love people who use the "well everyone else does" it excuse. 5th grade down?

It's not an excuse - it's a comment on the ridiculousness of the outrage people have over this barely unsanctioned "cheating."Folks, there's no easter bunny, they do shoot horses, astronauts really landed on the moon and many, many NFL players really do take steroids and other performance enhancing substances. When punter Todd Saurbrun is using, it's time to take your indignation to more deserving locales. This ship has sailed, the only thing to be determined is how to work PR damage control when someone is dumb enough to get caught.

Agreed, he is the tip of the iceberg. But that doesn't change the fact that he did get caught, and being a high profile award candidate just makes it even more problematic. The league needs to decide if they really want to do something serious about PEDs, or continue to turn the blind eye. Untill they do no one player should be blamed for trying to get an edge, but thats not the same as being ok with him winning an award in a season where he did somehow manage to test positive.

 

[Gr00vus]

Fine, you think it's okay for everyone to take steroids. We disagree.

Actually I don't know that I think it's okay. I would prefer non augmented humans for atheletes. I just don't think it's realistic to expect it anymore, so I'm not at all flabbergasted about it when it happens, especially in a sport like U.S. football. I've just accepted that they're used, without any kind of moral judgement one way or the other. I think that's probably where we disagree.

 

[Gr00vus]

Agreed, he is the tip of the iceberg. But that doesn't change the fact that he did get caught, and being a high profile award candidate just makes it even more problematic. The league needs to decide if they really want to do something serious about PEDs, or continue to turn the blind eye. Untill they do no one player should be blamed for trying to get an edge, but thats not the same as being ok with him winning an award in a season where he did somehow manage to test positive.

I agree with most of what you say here, and I don't think he should win it either. I just get a bit uncomfortable when people start going a little too far in the character assasination direction on the basis of failing this test. Overall he seems like a pretty good human being, he's overcome quite a bit to get to where he is and he continues to do good works. I think he'd be a great player with our without the drugs.I think with what we've seen so far in relation to the steroids witch hunts, we'll never be able to know for certain who uses and who doesn't for the most part. So I've given up casting aspersions on guys who get caught at this point - they're playing the game the way it's being played whether we like it or not. That's the reality they have to live with, and which we somewhat are reponsible for encouraging as fans.

 

[Borat]

Groovus>

I don't think I've said anything out of line about Merriman.

I think he'd be a great player with or without steroids at this point in time. But I also think he's either a cheater, a moron, or both.

I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

 

[lord_helmet]

Agreed, he is the tip of the iceberg. But that doesn't change the fact that he did get caught, and being a high profile award candidate just makes it even more problematic. The league needs to decide if they really want to do something serious about PEDs, or continue to turn the blind eye. Untill they do no one player should be blamed for trying to get an edge, but thats not the same as being ok with him winning an award in a season where he did somehow manage to test positive.

I agree with most of what you say here, and I don't think he should win it either. I just get a bit uncomfortable when people start going a little too far in the character assasination direction on the basis of failing this test. Overall he seems like a pretty good human being, he's overcome quite a bit to get to where he is and he continues to do good works. I think he'd be a great player with our without the drugs.I think with what we've seen so far in relation to the steroids witch hunts, we'll never be able to know for certain who uses and who doesn't for the most part. So I've given up casting aspersions on guys who get caught at this point - they're playing the game the way it's being played whether we like it or not. That's the reality they have to live with, and which we somewhat are reponsible for encouraging as fans.

Very true and a realistic way to look at it, what I don't care for is that the NFL (teamowners) does not have to live up to the same standards as all other sports. And if it gets to be a well known fact that you have to juice up to be a factor in the league, they risk it will spin out of control and what caring parent would want their son to be a football player with such an outlook ?

 

[Borat]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.

That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.

I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?

Warrants mentioning.

 

[Gr00vus]

Groovus>

I don't think I've said anything out of line about Merriman.

I think he'd be a great player with or without steroids at this point in time. But I also think he's either a cheater, a moron, or both.

I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

Well cheater is possibly out of line, and sounds shrill to me when it's used in these threads in consideration of what I've been going on about. Certainly the rule is on the books, but to my mind it's not enforced in any serious kind of way (random drug testing - what a joke), the penalties are weak, and there is a sense (at least to my mind) that it's all a wink-wink nudge-nudge don't ask don't tell kind of thing where the NFL and players association takes the two faced stance of talking big about no enahncement drugs, but behind closed doors no one's going to do anything real to stop it because it helps put more money on the table for everybody. So technically, yes cheater is not out of line, but semantically I have a hard time getting behind that in today's NFL. Maybe I'm too cynical.Moron is definitely too harsh in my opinion. You don't know the guy well enough to say that and one incident is not someone's whole life.

 

[Gr00vus]

Agreed, he is the tip of the iceberg. But that doesn't change the fact that he did get caught, and being a high profile award candidate just makes it even more problematic. The league needs to decide if they really want to do something serious about PEDs, or continue to turn the blind eye. Untill they do no one player should be blamed for trying to get an edge, but thats not the same as being ok with him winning an award in a season where he did somehow manage to test positive.

I agree with most of what you say here, and I don't think he should win it either. I just get a bit uncomfortable when people start going a little too far in the character assasination direction on the basis of failing this test. Overall he seems like a pretty good human being, he's overcome quite a bit to get to where he is and he continues to do good works. I think he'd be a great player with our without the drugs.I think with what we've seen so far in relation to the steroids witch hunts, we'll never be able to know for certain who uses and who doesn't for the most part. So I've given up casting aspersions on guys who get caught at this point - they're playing the game the way it's being played whether we like it or not. That's the reality they have to live with, and which we somewhat are reponsible for encouraging as fans.

Very true and a realistic way to look at it, what I don't care for is that the NFL (teamowners) does not have to live up to the same standards as all other sports. And if it gets to be a well known fact that you have to juice up to be a factor in the league, they risk it will spin out of control and what caring parent would want their son to be a football player with such an outlook ?

The ones who know their children have virtually no other shot at being instant millionaires. There are sadly too many of those.The average life expectancy for NFL players has always been short (55 years currently), yet there's no shortage of prospects.

 

[mad sweeney]

Groovus>I don't think I've said anything out of line about Merriman.I think he'd be a great player with or without steroids at this point in time. But I also think he's either a cheater, a moron, or both.I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

Do you have to be a moron to make a mistake? There's no other choice?

 

[Despyzer]

Do you have to be a moron to make a mistake? There's no other choice?

No, only moron's make mistakes. If you weren't such a moron you never would have asked that question.

 

[lord_helmet]

55 years ?!? , I didn't know that and I bet that drugs/PEDS is a big part of the reason why. Getting hit by a freighttrain every week clearly won't do much good either but 55 is very very low.

 

[Gr00vus]

55 years ?!? , I didn't know that and I bet that drugs/PEDS is a big part of the reason why. Getting hit by a freighttrain every week clearly won't do much good either but 55 is very very low.

It's always been that way, even before the roids, but I daresay the roids will probably bring the average down even further. It's a brutal sport and always has been. I think heart failure/circulatory problems are the main issue. The affect of roids isn't just making people stronger and faster - it's main appeal to players and the league is that it helps guys stay on the field longer/more often where as before they'd be out. So you get collisions by bigger guys at a higher velocity, and they're able to go at it all season as long as their connective tissue holds up. More of what everyone wants to see right? The biggest stars making the biggest hits/plays every game. It's a pretty vicious cycle, and I for one can't really find that much acrimony for guys doing what they can to survive, let alone thrive in it.The root cause is the money, and that certainly isn't going away any time soon. And there's no one to blame for that but us, the fans, who pay for it all.

 

[Tau837]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?Warrants mentioning.

Yeah, but Merriman is going to help his team for three more games to Taylor's zero. I'd rather have Merriman's 15 games than Taylor's 16.

 

[mad sweeney]

Do you have to be a moron to make a mistake? There's no other choice?

No, only moron's make mistakes. If you weren't such a moron you never would have asked that question.

moron's=Belonging to a singular moron Example: Despyzer is a moron's name.

morons=Plural form of moron

Example: While calling morons names, Despyzer should not reveal how much of a moron he is by commiting a very basic (3rd grade or so) grammatical error.

error=mistake

So by the moron's bolded statement above, and seeing that Despyzer made a mistake, the two example sentences are therefore true.

 

[Borat]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?Warrants mentioning.

Yeah, but Merriman is going to help his team for three more games to Taylor's zero. I'd rather have Merriman's 15 games than Taylor's 16.

So you believe the players' teams' records should be taken into account for this individual award?

 

[chris1969]

Hmm conflicting opinions...

Let me just think out loud for a second....

Merriman knew what the rules were and got caught breaking them. It doesn't matter what the reason is for failing the test, he failed the test and if it was because a non-approved supplement, it's a moot point.

He served his penalty and was given the ok by the NFL to keep playing after serving it.

He did alot of work for charity, that scores him alot of points as far being a good human being, but has little to do with DPOY.

Taylor gets in front of a bunch of TV cameras and being in the running for DPOY himself raises the question of Merrimans success being tainted.



Paul Brown had a saying, "If you win say nothing, if you lose say less." Maybe someone should tell that to Taylor. He said it on camera for a reason, if he was really concerned about the NFL's image he would have filed a private complaint.

The NFL is more to blame than anyone if they didn't think about this when they came up with the steroid rules. They deserve to eat some crow and can change the rules after he gets the award if they think they need to be.

As far as tainting the high honor of DPOY goes, 20 years from now if we are all talking on this same board and Merriman's award comes up, one of us will bring up the steroid thing and the rest of us will follow up with all the relevent info throughout his career. History has a way of correcting the mistakes of the past, and if the NFL does make the mistake Taylor claims then public perception will support that later.

And for all the impressionable kids out there, don't take steroids!!!

They make your pee-pee shrink

 

[Tau837]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?Warrants mentioning.

Yeah, but Merriman is going to help his team for three more games to Taylor's zero. I'd rather have Merriman's 15 games than Taylor's 16.

So you believe the players' teams' records should be taken into account for this individual award?

If you'll notice, I didn't comment on whether or not Merriman should win the award. I responded to your point that Taylor has helped his team in 4 more games this season. You posted "which would you rather have...", and I responded that I'd rather have Merriman's contribution over the 15 games (I expect) he'll play than the 16 Taylor played.As far as your latest question, I think team records should be taken into account to some degree. It's not the be all end all, but it is a factor if the player in question was instrumental in his team winning games. Frankly, I don't think there should be regular season based awards and postseason awards. The awards would be voted on and awarded after the Super Bowl, and postseason accomplishments would be taken into account. Same for the Pro Bowl selections.

 

[mad sweeney]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?Warrants mentioning.

Yeah, but Merriman is going to help his team for three more games to Taylor's zero. I'd rather have Merriman's 15 games than Taylor's 16.

So you believe the players' teams' records should be taken into account for this individual award?

If you'll notice, I didn't comment on whether or not Merriman should win the award. I responded to your point that Taylor has helped his team in 4 more games this season. You posted "which would you rather have...", and I responded that I'd rather have Merriman's contribution over the 15 games (I expect) he'll play than the 16 Taylor played.As far as your latest question, I think team records should be taken into account to some degree. It's not the be all end all, but it is a factor if the player in question was instrumental in his team winning games. Frankly, I don't think there should be regular season based awards and postseason awards. The awards would be voted on and awarded after the Super Bowl, and postseason accomplishments would be taken into account. Same for the Pro Bowl selections.

They're not always taken into account, records that is. Cortez Kennedy won it on a 2-14 team.

 

[ChampBailey24]

Groovus>

I don't think I've said anything out of line about Merriman.

I think he'd be a great player with or without steroids at this point in time. But I also think he's either a cheater, a moron, or both.

I don't think we are disagreeing on anything here.

Well cheater is possibly out of line, and sounds shrill to me when it's used in these threads in consideration of what I've been going on about. Certainly the rule is on the books, but to my mind it's not enforced in any serious kind of way (random drug testing - what a joke), the penalties are weak, and there is a sense (at least to my mind) that it's all a wink-wink nudge-nudge don't ask don't tell kind of thing where the NFL and players association takes the two faced stance of talking big about no enahncement drugs, but behind closed doors no one's going to do anything real to stop it because it helps put more money on the table for everybody. So technically, yes cheater is not out of line, but semantically I have a hard time getting behind that in today's NFL. Maybe I'm too cynical.

Wait a minute....so because the rule that Merriman broke is not harsh enough, we can't really consider Merriman a cheater? Look...the only guys arguing FOR Merriman are the Chargers homers. Guess why....

 

[chris1969]

uhm, I'm not a Chargers homer. I could care less if Merriman won DPOY or not, as a matter of fact. I just don't believe you make mid-season rule adjustments. He went by the rules in place and if that gave him an advantage, then change the rules after the fact not during.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He was caught CHEATING.

That's never been established. He was not suspended for cheating. He was suspended for testing positive. There are ways to test positive without cheating. The NFL made no determination at all on the question of cheating.

 

[lord_helmet]

He was caught CHEATING.

That's never been established. He was not suspended for cheating. He was suspended for testing positive. There are ways to test positive without cheating. The NFL made no determination at all on the question of cheating.

Sorry I don't buy that, teams have doctors and he could have taken a second to run the "supplement" by him. In fact if there's systematic use of PEDs, the doctors are almost certainly in on it. I'm from Denmark, Europe and if the NFL has just half the problem that professional cycling does, I can tell you that US sports and the NFL in particular has only begun scratching the surface of this issue. There is just a much more liberal attitude in the states towards all kinds of medicine, half the stuff you guys can buy in the supermarket are prescription drugs over here.

 

[Sabertooth]

I love how people act like Merriman is the only guy in the NFL who's had steroids in his system.

Much like people crucified Brett for taking Vicodin.

 

[Tau837]

I will assume that both Taylor and Merriman had a positive effect on their team's chances of winning every game they each played.That means Taylor helped the Dolphins in 16 games this season. Merriman helped San Diego in only 12 games this season.I guess if we look past the Merriman suspension, it comes down to which you'd rather have: a monster of a defender for 12 games, or a slightly less monstrous defender for all 16 games?Warrants mentioning.

Yeah, but Merriman is going to help his team for three more games to Taylor's zero. I'd rather have Merriman's 15 games than Taylor's 16.

So you believe the players' teams' records should be taken into account for this individual award?

If you'll notice, I didn't comment on whether or not Merriman should win the award. I responded to your point that Taylor has helped his team in 4 more games this season. You posted "which would you rather have...", and I responded that I'd rather have Merriman's contribution over the 15 games (I expect) he'll play than the 16 Taylor played.As far as your latest question, I think team records should be taken into account to some degree. It's not the be all end all, but it is a factor if the player in question was instrumental in his team winning games. Frankly, I don't think there should be regular season based awards and postseason awards. The awards would be voted on and awarded after the Super Bowl, and postseason accomplishments would be taken into account. Same for the Pro Bowl selections.

They're not always taken into account, records that is. Cortez Kennedy won it on a 2-14 team.

Right. As I said, I think it should be a factor. That doesn't mean someone from a 2-14 team shouldn't be able to win... but a player on a 2-14 team has to be a bit more dominant IMO than a player on a playoff team to justify the award. If it's close, I'd give the edge to the player on a winning team, since one could argue that his performance mattered more to his team.