It's a copycat league... (1 Viewer)

[Mungo Burrows]

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Addai + Rhodes

Saints - Deuce + Bush

Bears - Jones + Benson

Patriots - Dillon + Maroney

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Lewis

Eagles - Westbrook

Seahawks - Alexander

Chargers - LT

All 4 winners have 2 back rotations/committees

All 4 losers had one primary back.

Things were already headed that way, but don't be surprised if this moves things even further in that direction (although admittedly, NE's rbs played a relatively small role in their win)

Discuss amongst yourselves

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

and Kevin Faulk was the best option for NE last week.

Throw in Bettis/Parker for the steelers last year. Even though Salex made the big game.

RBBC isn't all that new of a concept. It's effective to keep players fresh for the long haul of a 16+ game system. It does however sux0r for us FFL players

 

[Doug Drinen]

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Addai + Rhodes

Saints - Deuce + Bush

Bears - Jones + Benson

Patriots - Dillon + Maroney

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Lewis

Eagles - Westbrook

Seahawks - Alexander

Chargers - LT

It's interesting that there are 9 first-round picks among those 8 teams.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

and Kevin Faulk was the best option for NE last week.Throw in Bettis/Parker for the steelers last year. Even though Salex made the big game. RBBC isn't all that new of a concept. It's effective to keep players fresh for the long haul of a 16+ game system. It does however sux0r for us FFL players

I almost threw in faulk as well.It used to be that more teams had committees and such, then for the last decade or two more teams looked for that elusive workhorse. Now it appears the pendulum is gaining more momentum toward the commitees again. I definitely understand its value for an NFL team, but from a fantasy perspective, it probably means we will need to move away from true Stud RB (RB-RB) drafting and actually start thinking in the 2nd round.

 

[u999spf]

I have noticed this trend too over the past year or two and I feel like if you miss out on one of the big primary backs early in the draft you may be better served by drafting a WR (in ppr) or a QB, rather then having to go RB, RB or RB,RB,RB in the early rounds.

I also think you can definitely wait for your 2nd RB much longer than in the past. You can address QB, WR, TE in the earlier rounds and just collect these split time RB's in the middle rounds and hope you hit on one of them.

 

[Warhogs]

My opinion is that I would attribute it more like this:

Winners:

Colts - Peyton Manning

Patriots - Tom Brady

Bears - Rex Grossman

Saints - Drew Brees

Losers:

Chargers - Philip Rivers

Ravens - Steve McNair

Seahawks - Matt Hasselback

Eagles - Jeff Garcia

With the exception of the Bears win the better QB won all the games. The Bears are strong enough on defense and special teams so Grossman only needs to play decent and limit turnovers. Hasselback has a tendency to make a fair amount of bad decisions too and this game did go to OT. My opinion is that the better quarterbacked team is probably a stronger factor than RBBC. I was not surprised to see the Chargers dumped with Rivers starting his first playoff game.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Addai (2006.1.30)+ Rhodes

Saints - Deuce(2001.1.23) + Bush(2006.1.2)

Bears - Jones(2000.1.7) + Benson (2005.1.4)

Patriots - Dillon (1997.2.13)+ Maroney (1.21)

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Lewis(2000.1.5)

Eagles - Westbrook (2002.3.13)

Seahawks - Alexander(2000.1.19)

Chargers - LT(2001.1.5)

It's interesting that there are 9 first-round picks among those 8 teams.

...and a top-half-of-the-2nd-rounder (Dillon). All but 1 was a first day pick. (And Kevin Faulk was 2.15)

Also interesting that 5 of the 9 first rounders came from 2000 or 2001

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Cover 2 is coming back in-vogue and the zone-blitz is becoming yesterdays mullet.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Cover 2 is coming back in-vogue and the zone-blitz is becoming yesterdays mullet.

I was just thinking that the league was figuring out the cover two, and now the bears and colts are 1 game from the big dance.Really I think the 3-4 is the D taking over, even though only 1 team left is running that (NE). But Balt,SD and last years champ Pitt run it. What D does the saints run? I know it's 4-3, but is it tampa cover 2?Do not ever make fun of the mullet, either!!!

 

[Sidewinder16]

Things were already headed that way, but don't be surprised if this moves things even further in that direction

I think this may have been done on the boards here at some point, but is there any historical, league-wide data to support this?This season I count 9 teams as using a "RBBC" (IND, JAX, NEP, NYJ, DEN, NOS, CHI, DAL). What constitutes a RBBC is somewhat debatable, so some may disagree with who should be on this list, but if it's anywhere close to 9 teams, then only about 1/4 to 1/3 of the league is using RBBC.How many teams used it in each of the past 5, 10, 20, etc. years? Have the number of teams using RBBC been steadily growing, shrinking or staying about the same? Of the teams that have used RBBC in the past, how successful have they typically been (i.e. did they make it into the postseason)?I understand the copycat nature of the league, but I, personally, wouldn't call one postseason a trend toward change. I'd love to see any past data that may support the issue, though.

 

[Family Matters]

I need to qualify my response because it is based on my observation and feel of the game rather than a statistical analysis so take for what it's worth.

The impending doom of the 1 RB system and it's impact on fantasy football has been predicted since I've been playing this game (1999). It hasn't happened yet and I'm not sure it will in the sense that it changes how we draft and build our teams.

First, let's consider where we are with the teams in the conference finals. Let's look at them 1 by 1.

Chicago- They have been waiting to put Benson in as the feature back since he was drafted. The only reason they haven't yet done so is because of Benson. While Jones has done a great job IMO-they just don't want him. They wanted Benson to be the guy but Benson has not endeared himself to the team as the guy they can count on. That may yet change so stay tuned. This RBBC is not by design and likely won't stay that way if Benson gets his act together.

New England-Maroney is being fazed in and Dillon fdazed out. Dillon is no longer a realiable feature back. His days are numbered. But he still adds value and experience and that make the rookie's adjustment easier. It makes sense the way they handled this. I fully expect Maroney to be the guy in the nest year or two. Of course they will always have a 3rd down back role player and Faulk is the best at that.

Saints-This may be the one that makes the most sense. McAllister was coming off injury so there had to be some concerns about how well he'd recover. But remember, Bush was never expected to be there. They were handed a gift from Houston. How could they pass on Bush? Now they have truley a 2 back system that they effectively utilize with great success. What other team has 2 backs of their caliber? I think they are simple taking advantage of what was given to them.

Colts-I said all along that Addai was drafted to be the man and it appears to be headed that way. He's the one they've been leaning on the most down the stretch. Rhodes os better suited as a back up and it's paying off for them. Expect more of Addai going forward and Rhodes as a change of pace player.

Now, with that said I think the whole RBBC idea is more media driven then reality. Outside of the Saints, what team really used the RBBC except for teams in transition? NE, Indy and Chicago are teams in transition with their RB's. Outside of a change of pace role back, I doubt Jones, Dillon or Rhodes will have much value going forward. Maybe Jones becasue of Benson's questioable acts but even that could change next year.

The Saints are the 1 team I see that will likely continue doing what they're doing going forward. Keep something in mind. Good RB's need reps to get into a good rhythem. 50-50 touches do not work that well for many reasons. Not all of them are good pass blockers and that leads to continuity for QB's and the passing game. Not all guys are versatile enought to command a lead role. The better talent will always be on the filed more than the other guy. The Saints are the exception.

Lastly, teams have this thing called salary cap and they can't afford 2 ball carriers that are starter material and the salary they command. Having 2 of them means the team suffers elsewhere. They just can't do that ongoing. Coaches realize that these 4 teams are not in the SB because of the 2 back system. It's a team game. It's not just the RB's or the QB's as many tend to think. It's the body of the team does. That's why the cap has to be managed judiciously. Failure to do so means no playoffs chances for thie teams.

Lastly, absent of starter requirement changes in your leagues, you still need good RB's in order to win championships. In fact if the RBBC really comes through for say half the teams then expect your top level RB's to become even more valuable, not less.

 

[Despyzer]

One trend that I think we will see a lot next year considering how well it worked this last week is quarterbacks throwing interceptions downdfield on 4th downs in the hopes that the DB fumbles it so they can gain a first down.

 

[msommer]

I need to qualify my response because it is based on my observation and feel of the game rather than a statistical analysis so take for what it's worth.

The impending doom of the 1 RB system and it's impact on fantasy football has been predicted since I've been playing this game (1999). It hasn't happened yet and I'm not sure it will in the sense that it changes how we draft and build our teams.

First, let's consider where we are with the teams in the conference finals. Let's look at them 1 by 1.

Chicago- They have been waiting to put Benson in as the feature back since he was drafted. The only reason they haven't yet done so is because of Benson. While Jones has done a great job IMO-they just don't want him. They wanted Benson to be the guy but Benson has not endeared himself to the team as the guy they can count on. That may yet change so stay tuned. This RBBC is not by design and likely won't stay that way if Benson gets his act together.

New England-Maroney is being fazed in and Dillon fdazed out. Dillon is no longer a realiable feature back. His days are numbered. But he still adds value and experience and that make the rookie's adjustment easier. It makes sense the way they handled this. I fully expect Maroney to be the guy in the nest year or two. Of course they will always have a 3rd down back role player and Faulk is the best at that.

Saints-This may be the one that makes the most sense. McAllister was coming off injury so there had to be some concerns about how well he'd recover. But remember, Bush was never expected to be there. They were handed a gift from Houston. How could they pass on Bush? Now they have truley a 2 back system that they effectively utilize with great success. What other team has 2 backs of their caliber? I think they are simple taking advantage of what was given to them.

Colts-I said all along that Addai was drafted to be the man and it appears to be headed that way. He's the one they've been leaning on the most down the stretch. Rhodes os better suited as a back up and it's paying off for them. Expect more of Addai going forward and Rhodes as a change of pace player.

Now, with that said I think the whole RBBC idea is more media driven then reality. Outside of the Saints, what team really used the RBBC except for teams in transition? NE, Indy and Chicago are teams in transition with their RB's. Outside of a change of pace role back, I doubt Jones, Dillon or Rhodes will have much value going forward. Maybe Jones becasue of Benson's questioable acts but even that could change next year.

The Saints are the 1 team I see that will likely continue doing what they're doing going forward. Keep something in mind. Good RB's need reps to get into a good rhythem. 50-50 touches do not work that well for many reasons. Not all of them are good pass blockers and that leads to continuity for QB's and the passing game. Not all guys are versatile enought to command a lead role. The better talent will always be on the filed more than the other guy. The Saints are the exception.

Lastly, teams have this thing called salary cap and they can't afford 2 ball carriers that are starter material and the salary they command. Having 2 of them means the team suffers elsewhere. They just can't do that ongoing. Coaches realize that these 4 teams are not in the SB because of the 2 back system. It's a team game. It's not just the RB's or the QB's as many tend to think. It's the body of the team does. That's why the cap has to be managed judiciously. Failure to do so means no playoffs chances for thie teams.

Lastly, absent of starter requirement changes in your leagues, you still need good RB's in order to win championships. In fact if the RBBC really comes through for say half the teams then expect your top level RB's to become even more valuable, not less.

Also consider SD has been widely lambasted for NOT using their stud more in the second half against NE.

 

[Family Matters]

One trend that I think we will see a lot next year considering how well it worked this last week is quarterbacks throwing interceptions downdfield on 4th downs in the hopes that the DB fumbles it so they can gain a first down.

Thinking outside the box. I like that. They'll never see it coming.

 

[David Yudkin]

New England-Maroney is being fazed in and Dillon fazed out. Dillon is no longer a realiable feature back. His days are numbered. But he still adds value and experience and that make the rookie's adjustment easier. It makes sense the way they handled this. I fully expect Maroney to be the guy in the nest year or two. Of course they will always have a 3rd down back role player and Faulk is the best at that.

I have had heard this from a lot of people all season but have yet to see it in practice in game situations. Here are the carry breakdowns between the two NE RBs . . .Week #, Dillon, Maroney1, 16, 172, 20, 163, 5, 124, 17, 155, 10, 187, 14, 88, 3, 89, 13, 1310, 11, 1211, 12, 1912, 11, 1313, 9, 414, 16, 015, 20, 016, 10, 717, 12, 13P1, 10, 18P2, 8, 5If there is a pattern that shows that Maroney is gaining carries whil Dillon is losing them, I sure don't see it. And if there is a trend that Maroney had far more carries than Dillon at any point, I don't see that one either. My crystal ball tells me that the Pats will have both these guys back next year and we will see more of the same in 2007.

 

[Gr00vus]

Re: RBBC, I think talent dictates what is done, I don't think people plan to have RBBC - they do the best with what they've got. I don't see a pattern, I see coincidence. Seattle went to the SB with Alexander last year - I don't think they're going to try and make sure Morris gets more carries because a bunch of RBBC teams went further in the playoffs this year.

What I notice in the playoffs this year is that there seem to be fewer big passing plays in the air (as opposed to RAC), and there seems to be an emphasis on taking the underneath stuff and the outs most of the time. I haven't looked at the stats, so this is purely anecdotal - just a feeling I've gotten from the playoffs this year.

 

[Family Matters]

New England-Maroney is being fazed in and Dillon fazed out. Dillon is no longer a realiable feature back. His days are numbered. But he still adds value and experience and that make the rookie's adjustment easier. It makes sense the way they handled this. I fully expect Maroney to be the guy in the nest year or two. Of course they will always have a 3rd down back role player and Faulk is the best at that.

I have had heard this from a lot of people all season but have yet to see it in practice in game situations. Here are the carry breakdowns between the two NE RBs . . .Week #, Dillon, Maroney1, 16, 172, 20, 163, 5, 124, 17, 155, 10, 187, 14, 88, 3, 89, 13, 1310, 11, 1211, 12, 1912, 11, 1313, 9, 414, 16, 015, 20, 016, 10, 717, 12, 13P1, 10, 18P2, 8, 5If there is a pattern that shows that Maroney is gaining carries whil Dillon is losing them, I sure don't see it. And if there is a trend that Maroney had far more carries than Dillon at any point, I don't see that one either. My crystal ball tells me that the Pats will have both these guys back next year and we will see more of the same in 2007.

Don't forget that Maroney was injured some this year so I'm sure that affected his carries. As for the point I was trying to make about NE, Dillon is on the downside of his career and they drafted Maroney to be his replacement somewhere in the future. IMO-the future could be next year or the year after. That might depend on 2 things:1. Dillon's health.2. Maroney's health.If Dillon regains his health then he might see a few more carries. Of course if Maroney continues to be nicked up then a RBBC will be needed to fit the bill.But I can easily see if Maroney is healthy and Dillon still on his downhill spiral, Maroney being a 240+ carry guy next year.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Now, with that said I think the whole RBBC idea is more media driven then reality. Outside of the Saints, what team really used the RBBC except for teams in transition? NE, Indy and Chicago are teams in transition with their RB's. Outside of a change of pace role back, I doubt Jones, Dillon or Rhodes will have much value going forward. Maybe Jones becasue of Benson's questioable acts but even that could change next year.

But I think more teams will go through transition with their runningbacks. Just a few years ago, Deuce sat dutifully while Ganja Ricky was the man for the saints. I think teams will use young players in a part-time role more than they have in the recent past.

Lastly, absent of starter requirement changes in your leagues, you still need good RB's in order to win championships. In fact if the RBBC really comes through for say half the teams then expect your top level RB's to become even more valuable, not less.

No doubt. There will still be guys whose talent and/or situation warrant them being "the man" And the first round will still be spent on those kinds of guys. It's the second round where the impact hits. If 15 teams are running two backs, you're probably going to be able to get close to the same quality RB in rd 4 or 5 that you could get in round 2. When there is only 35 rbs with regular jobs and most of them get the bulk of their team's carries (and some play for the likes of the Browns, etc) the productivity drop off will be much more dramatic this pushes you to draft the 2nd and 3rd RB earlier.

 

[David Yudkin]

New England-Maroney is being fazed in and Dillon fazed out. Dillon is no longer a realiable feature back. His days are numbered. But he still adds value and experience and that make the rookie's adjustment easier. It makes sense the way they handled this. I fully expect Maroney to be the guy in the nest year or two. Of course they will always have a 3rd down back role player and Faulk is the best at that.

I have had heard this from a lot of people all season but have yet to see it in practice in game situations. Here are the carry breakdowns between the two NE RBs . . .Week #, Dillon, Maroney1, 16, 172, 20, 163, 5, 124, 17, 155, 10, 187, 14, 88, 3, 89, 13, 1310, 11, 1211, 12, 1912, 11, 1313, 9, 414, 16, 015, 20, 016, 10, 717, 12, 13P1, 10, 18P2, 8, 5If there is a pattern that shows that Maroney is gaining carries whil Dillon is losing them, I sure don't see it. And if there is a trend that Maroney had far more carries than Dillon at any point, I don't see that one either. My crystal ball tells me that the Pats will have both these guys back next year and we will see more of the same in 2007.

Don't forget that Maroney was injured some this year so I'm sure that affected his carries. As for the point I was trying to make about NE, Dillon is on the downside of his career and they drafted Maroney to be his replacement somewhere in the future. IMO-the future could be next year or the year after. That might depend on 2 things:1. Dillon's health.2. Maroney's health.If Dillon regains his health then he might see a few more carries. Of course if Maroney continues to be nicked up then a RBBC will be needed to fit the bill.But I can easily see if Maroney is healthy and Dillon still on his downhill spiral, Maroney being a 240+ carry guy next year.

Maroney got banged up late in the year, but Dillon had nagging injuries almost from Day 1 of the season. Even so, Dillon performed admirably and his performance in many ways was better than Maroney's, especially when you factor in that Dillon served as the short yardage back for pretty much the whole season with a handful of exceptions. As for Dillon's "downhill spiral", here were the combined regular and post season stats for both playersillion217-883-4.1-14 with 16-147-0Maroney198-819-4.1-6 with 22-194-1I don't see where Maroney's numbers were that better than Dillon's. Sure, Maroney had some highlight reel runs where he looked totally unstoppable. But I watched every Pats game this season and he also had a lot of rushes where he danced around for losses or no gain. There's no question that in space he is far more productive than Dillon at this stage, but Dillon did an excellent job for the most part in grinding out positive yardage on most plays, moving the sticks, and getting in the end zone.Obviously whatever the Patriots did was pretty effective, and Belichick is not one to scrap something that is working. If Maroney works on moving full steam ahead, taking some tough hits, moving the pile, and consistently gets plus yardage and works in his long runs, I agree that he would merit more touches.But if Dillon is around, I still think Dillon will get the tough yards and goal line carries. Dillon has scored 39 times in 43 games as a Patriot. And his yearly TD production hasn't dropped any even if his yardage has.Yes, Maroney will get better and will learn to block better and may well get tougher, but if Dillon is still effective I don't see why as a matter of course he will automatically get sent to the curb.

 

[Jous]

and Kevin Faulk was the best option for NE last week.Throw in Bettis/Parker for the steelers last year. Even though Salex made the big game. RBBC isn't all that new of a concept. It's effective to keep players fresh for the long haul of a 16+ game system. It does however sux0r for us FFL players

What exactly is "Salex?" I don't know if it's a FF term, as I don't play FF. And yes I know this is a FF site, but I come here for real life NFL discussion, which this forum has a lot of with fans of all different teams.EDIT: Nevermind... Salex=Shaun Alexander I guess. I feel stupid >_<

 

[BGP]

I think we may see a more and more teams try to emulate the "Detroit" offense. No, not the offense that the Lions run. The offense that the Patriots run, which is based on what Belichick and Parcells observed the Lions running like 25 years ago or so. It puts a lot of emphasis on the tight end, which is why the Patriots draft so many TEs high.

 

[jurb26]

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Addai + Rhodes

Saints - Deuce + Bush

Bears - Jones + Benson

Patriots - Dillon + Maroney

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Lewis

Eagles - Westbrook

Seahawks - Alexander

Chargers - LT

All 4 winners have 2 back rotations/committees

All 4 losers had one primary back.

Things were already headed that way, but don't be surprised if this moves things even further in that direction (although admittedly, NE's rbs played a relatively small role in their win)

Discuss amongst yourselves

WHile Balt lost, I find it hard to place any of that blame on Lewis. The guy played great IMO. Balt simply didn't get him the ball enough and abandoned the run. Same with LT.

 

[Mungo Burrows]

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Addai + Rhodes

Saints - Deuce + Bush

Bears - Jones + Benson

Patriots - Dillon + Maroney

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Lewis

Eagles - Westbrook

Seahawks - Alexander

Chargers - LT

All 4 winners have 2 back rotations/committees

All 4 losers had one primary back.

Things were already headed that way, but don't be surprised if this moves things even further in that direction (although admittedly, NE's rbs played a relatively small role in their win)

Discuss amongst yourselves

WHile Balt lost, I find it hard to place any of that blame on Lewis. The guy played great IMO. Balt simply didn't get him the ball enough and abandoned the run. Same with LT.

I'm not saying they were responsible for their teams' losses, it was just an observation and an attempt to prompt discussion...which to some degree it has.

 

[BGP]

I think what Payton has done with NOs is pretty remarkable, but I think it also places an onus on all the newer coaches about the kind of leash they have. I think with the media and the Internet, coaches will be expected to get results faster than ever. A guy like John York is willing to let Mike Nolan ease along a rebuilding process slowly because he shot up his credibility, but more established owners, I think they will demand more and more. Here's what I see1) More elite college coaches will stay there.2) More elite NFL coordinators will prefer top tier college coaching jobs over NFL head coaching jobs3) Due to the salary cap, more teams will use the two TE set more and more. This helps to protect the offensive line where tenure and consistency gets hits hardest by FA. I think we will continue to see more and more freakish fast/big guys come into the tight end position.4) I think defensives will create more linebacker/safety hybrids to counter the new generation of TEs.5) I think more and more teams will shift from the 3-4 back to the 4-3, as the trends become cyclical over time. At some point a new wave of big and tough DL/NT/DE will show up. There was a big QB drought in the early 90s/late 80s, I think there's a bit of DL drought now, that's going to cycle out too.

I disagree that you will ever see the best coaches stay at the college level.The reason people choose the NFL over college is not for its stability or control. Its because they are fiery competitors that want to win at the highest level.Football attracts competitive people.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think we may see a more and more teams try to emulate the "Detroit" offense. No, not the offense that the Lions run. The offense that the Patriots run, which is based on what Belichick and Parcells observed the Lions running like 25 years ago or so. It puts a lot of emphasis on the tight end, which is why the Patriots draft so many TEs high.

The great Monte Clark Offense!

 

[Hobbes]

Corrected...

Last weeks winners:

Colts - Manning

Saints - Brees

Patriots - Brady

Bears - A really good defense

Last weeks losers:

Ravens - Old guy with a walker

Eagles - Backup (TO's best friend)

Seahawks - Bald guy with no heart

Chargers - Rookie