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Jacoby Jones to push Walter for starting job (1 Viewer)

JohnnyU

Footballguy
Coach Gary Kubiak expects Jacoby Jones to compete with Kevin Walter for the starting job opposite Andre Johnson.

We're still not sure why the Texans overpaid to keep Walter ($8 million guaranteed) when Jones showed so much promise last year. With Trindon Holliday handling return duties, Jones is pushing for more offensive snaps. While Walter does the little things better, Jones has considerably more talent. He's a better fantasy pick than Walter this year. May. 28 - 12:22 pm et

Source: Houston Chronicle

 
Could be a very nice mid-later round pickup. If not for the battle with Walter, then for insurance on AJ. I was not an earlier believer in Walter and when I finally belived (at the start of last year), he kind of fell off the cliff. He could always come back to his 800 yards 7 TD-type numbers, but eventhough he missed two games last year, he was still trending a bit downward compared to the last couple of years.

 
I tend to think the reason they overpaid Walter is they have some significant doubts about Jacoby.

I do remember some off-the-field issues in the past (maybe a Houston homer can elaborate?).

I'm sure they'll give him every chance to succeed; much more talented than Walter.

 
Money talks. They paid Walter huge money in a down free agent market, and have spoken glowingly about Jones every year about this time only to see him lose opportunities as the games start to matter. Taking a flier on Jones cheap is certainly hard to argue but I'm actually hoping this "competition" gets played up enough in the news cycles such that Walter can be had on the cheap in PPR redraft leagues. I'll scoop him up each and every time. :goodposting:

 
Sigh... they did not overpay for Walter. His contract was less money and a year longer than any other comparable FA WR contract this offseason (Burleson, Bryant, etc.)

 
I tend to think the reason they overpaid Walter is they have some significant doubts about Jacoby. I do remember some off-the-field issues in the past (maybe a Houston homer can elaborate?). I'm sure they'll give him every chance to succeed; much more talented than Walter.
Jacoby has a DWI from a year or so ago. He's also in the last year of his contract.
 
Jason LaConfora reported a while back that all this talk of a "big contract" for Walter was really just not accurate, relatively speaking. He said it was a very safe, easy, relatively cheap contract for a 2 or 3 WR in that offense and that re-signing Walter has nothing to do with their thoughts on Jacoby, whom he said they are indeed very high on and expect big things from as early as next year.

 
I tend to think the reason they overpaid Walter is they have some significant doubts about Jacoby. I do remember some off-the-field issues in the past (maybe a Houston homer can elaborate?). I'm sure they'll give him every chance to succeed; much more talented than Walter.
His off-field issues were generally partying too much and not working as hard as he should have. Basic immaturity. Yes, Walter was signed partly because they were not sure about Jones, but Walter (almost stereotypically) works, blocks, has above average hands and is (gasp) a better athlete than normally given credit. From a fantasy perspective my fear is that even if Jones wins the job, he might not get enough business to be a consistent fantasy guy. Remember the couple of years that Walter had where he was rosterable in a re-draft , he was really tough to depend on and although more explosive not sure that Jones will see enough balls to a consistent starter in normal sized leagues.
 
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Sigh... they did not overpay for Walter. His contract was less money and a year longer than any other comparable FA WR contract this offseason (Burleson, Bryant, etc.)
Jason LaConfora reported a while back that all this talk of a "big contract" for Walter was really just not accurate, relatively speaking. He said it was a very safe, easy, relatively cheap contract for a 2 or 3 WR in that offense and that re-signing Walter has nothing to do with their thoughts on Jacoby, whom he said they are indeed very high on and expect big things from as early as next year.
:shock:
 
Money talks. They paid Walter huge money in a down free agent market, and have spoken glowingly about Jones every year about this time only to see him lose opportunities as the games start to matter. Taking a flier on Jones cheap is certainly hard to argue but I'm actually hoping this "competition" gets played up enough in the news cycles such that Walter can be had on the cheap in PPR redraft leagues. I'll scoop him up each and every time. :shock:
Not exactly true...Jacoby in week 16 and 17:

2-79-1

5-65-1

 
Whats the word on Owen D from homers like Gregr and Coolnerd??? Him not being 100% could give more looks to Jjones as well.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6180on what two key decisions are going to be regarding positions) "I wouldn't say it's a decision, but we've got some altering to do, (general manager) Rick (Smith) and I, as far as the roster and how we bring guys because our count system is going to change if we have two kickers in camp and a snapper in camp. All of sudden we're a little bit lower in other spots. If I had to go to one place that's going to be the sticking point throughout camp as we work, I'm going to have to work around at our tight end position because OD (Owen Daniels) and Anthony Hill will not be participating in training camp. You go carrying six tight ends to get through training camp, and you got other problems at other spots. So we've got some work to do from that standpoint."

(on the health and attendance situation) "Everything's fine. (TE) James Casey, he and his wife had a baby boy yesterday. He's with his wife today, so he's not here. I think we had a little hamstring issue with (G) Mike Brisiel, and (CB Mark) Parson's ankle is a little sore but everybody's out here."

(on if he did not expect TE Owen Daniels to go through training camp) "Yeah, it's been the thought all the time. He's way ahead of schedule and he's doing very well, but it's been thought of all the time that if we get to camp that he would do some possible work like seven on seven, non-contact type stuff. But not throw him right back into full bang, so to speak. There's going to be some maneuvering to do. (TE) Anthony (Hill), realistically, probably won't be ready until the beginning of the season."

 
To me, the issue is not whether Jones or Walter is in the WR2 slot. the issue is whether it matters.

AJ is a very dominant #1 WR. so much so that it is possible that either WR could be the clear cut #2 guy and not get enough looks to be anything more than a reserve player in a redraft league. I could see Jones eventually becoming a #3 WR or possibly even a #2 guy eventually, but that day may be 2 or 3 years away unless AJ gets hurt for a few games.

 
To me, the issue is not whether Jones or Walter is in the WR2 slot. the issue is whether it matters.

AJ is a very dominant #1 WR. so much so that it is possible that either WR could be the clear cut #2 guy and not get enough looks to be anything more than a reserve player in a redraft league. I could see Jones eventually becoming a #3 WR or possibly even a #2 guy eventually, but that day may be 2 or 3 years away unless AJ gets hurt for a few games.
I think you're right in Redraft mode.

In Dynasty it clearly does matter.

 
Money talks. They paid Walter huge money in a down free agent market, and have spoken glowingly about Jones every year about this time only to see him lose opportunities as the games start to matter. Taking a flier on Jones cheap is certainly hard to argue but I'm actually hoping this "competition" gets played up enough in the news cycles such that Walter can be had on the cheap in PPR redraft leagues. I'll scoop him up each and every time. :bag:
Not exactly true...Jacoby in week 16 and 17:

2-79-1

5-65-1
Fair counterpoint. Jones is a perennial hype machine but over the last month of the 2009 season, he did indeed see a decent amount of targets (16 targets vs. 17 for Walter). I still think the Texans decisiveness in re-signing Walter and Jones lack of consistency (to date) make him someone you should only take a low risk flier on late, if at all.
 
Here is the article referenced in the original post.

Link

Jones has newfound focus

Texans WR showing dramatic improvement

By JORDAN GODWIN

Copyright 2010 Houston Chronicle

May 27, 2010, 9:19PM

Texans coach Gary Kubiak is expecting fourth-year receiver Jacoby Jones to compete with Kevin Walter for a starting job this season.

“Whatever their plans are, I know it'll be big and it'll be fun,” Jones said.

Jones has been one of the Texans' bright spots during the first two weeks of organized team activities. This time last year, he timidly dropped passes and often looked confused during practice. Jones said he would blame his mistakes on teammates. He almost constantly wore a face of frustration, and he said he knew it was hampering his ability.

“I was kind of a mess,” Jones said.

But something changed, and Jones was suddenly a different player. During this year's OTAs, he has not only verified his place as one of the league's best return men but also shown the potential to be a big-play receiver.

Last year, Jones improved drastically. After catching three passes for 81 yards and zero touchdowns in 2008, he made 27 receptions for 437 yards and six touchdowns and had a team-best 16.2 yards per catch. Of the eight games in which he made at least two receptions, he scored touchdowns in six of them. Jones gives much of the credit for his improvement to a more mature approach to the game.

“I started handling my business off the field, and it carried over onto the football field,” Jones said. “These days, I come in early and watch film and make sure I learn my playbook.”

Kubiak noticed the changes and spoke particularly highly of Jones' growth not only as a player but also as a student of the playbook. When starter Andre Johnson missed the first three days of OTAs, Jones stepped up and showed Kubiak that he's even better than he was last season.

“He's pushing for more playing time on this football team,” Kubiak said. “If the OTAs are any indication, he's doing a hell of a job.”

Until last season, Jones was used primarily as a return man on special teams. In 2008, he ranked second in the league with two punt return touchdowns and fifth with 12.1 yards per punt return. Last season, he ranked in the top 10 in both yards per kick return and yards per punt return.

“I love it,” Jones said. “It's a lot like playing tag when you were a kid — just run around and catch me if you can.”

This spring, Jones spent time working out in his hometown of New Orleans on a strict diet and adding five pounds of muscle. But he credits his mental preparation for the bulk of his improvement.

“He doesn't have to work so hard to know what we're doing,” Kubiak said. “Jacoby is growing up, and he's doing a lot better.”

With a new attitude, Jones quickly went from being a talented special teams player to a potentially dangerous offensive weapon. When asked how good Jones can be, Kubiak simply said he doesn't think anyone knows.

“We've all seen brilliant flashes as a player,” Kubiak said, “so if he gets that consistent mark, he has the ability to go up there and play with the best of them.”
 
To me, the issue is not whether Jones or Walter is in the WR2 slot. the issue is whether it matters.

AJ is a very dominant #1 WR. so much so that it is possible that either WR could be the clear cut #2 guy and not get enough looks to be anything more than a reserve player in a redraft league. I could see Jones eventually becoming a #3 WR or possibly even a #2 guy eventually, but that day may be 2 or 3 years away unless AJ gets hurt for a few games.
I think you're right in Redraft mode.

In Dynasty it clearly does matter.
yes you are correct.I guess if you are looking for a guy to be your #2 or #3 guy two years from now, he has value as a bench player or a prospect. It would depend on the rules in your league.

 
Thrilled to hear this, and will happily spread it to bring Walter's price down as much as possible, and acquire him in as many Leagues as possible, without pause.

6'3" 221lb Walter has plenty of size, plenty of heart, and plenty of intangibles, to compensate for less physical talent, to hold off Jacoby Jones from making a significant statistical impact for this upcoming Season, and there are other reasons related to the Team, which Jones has no control over, I'm confident in as well.

Jacoby Jones may be, no, undoubtably IS, more ATHLETICALLY GIFTED than Kevin Walter, but in terms of what they've showed so far in their NFL careers, Kevin Walter has proven to be a much more qualified NFL Starting Caliber WR than Jacoby Jones, for the time being. There are plenty of gifted athletes who we've all been stunned by, that they didn't make it for various reasons beyond their athletic ability in the NFL, but it happens more often than not. I think it's great that Jones is making strides, because, like Kubiak says, he has the POTENTIAL to be great. Realizing that potential, and developing the areas he needs to grow in are more than a one-offseason thing.

Until he's deposed, via competition, by a better NFL Caliber WR, (which as we all know demands more than just athleticism), Walter has a pretty solid hold on the starting job in Houston opposite quite possibly the most dominant (yes, it's dominant, not 'dominate', HTH, but I digress...) WR (Andre Johnson) in the NFL, in an Passing Offense that's potentially a Fort Knox of Fantasy Gold. There's no WR currently on the Roster that's a significant enough threat to him, in my opinion, barring injury, who he can't stay ahead of by merely applying himself to what he already does well, with the same vigor he's already used to applying.

By all means, Jacoby Jones is a worthy Player to Roster, under the right circumstances, or at least keep an eye on, which I'll detail, but please don't get caught up in a prototypical late-May, early-June fluff piece, and make an expensive move to do so. OF COURSE Jacoby Jones is expected to COMPETE: it's about damn time someone on that roster competed with Walter...but if you read into it, the things Jones will be expected to do in order to displace Walter from the Starter's Role have to do with many things outside of his pure physical talent, which I give all due acknowledgement and respect...and they aren't exactly things one becomes better than someone who's already doing them well, in merely one off-season.

Walter brings to the table veteran savvy, personal maturity, and a 'lunch-pail' work ethic that the Coaches, and locker room both admire and respect. He also has that offensive scheme down pat. Jones may be improving in these areas, but if you look back over his personal history, he has plenty of work still do do before he's going to be trusted by QB and Coach, in critical down and distance situations with an NFL Game (and possibly his Head Coach's career) on the line. In an offense that has such potential to be explosive when firing on all cylinders, and requires the WR in Walters role to be much more than just a dominANT (there's that word again) athelete, yet is in a transitional period (intense work with the running game personnel, AND the recovery of stellar TE Owen Daniels intertwined with the development of James Casey), along with the widespread perception that Kubiak is on the hot-seat, removing a dependable Mr Reliable who knows every little nuance of the scheme, and has both an on and off the field rapport with Matt Schaub.

When you take all these factors into account, it would take a developmental step of Herculean proportions for Jones (or an injury to AJ or KW), along with a significant regression by Walter, to overtake Walter and see a major increase in offensive snaps this Season. When there are this many variables at play in the offensive equation (not the least among them, the pressure on Kubiak and Schaub) it would be a challenge for almost anyone to move a critical player out of a critical role. Think about it: all KW has to do to keep his job is to do the things that earned him that job in the 1st place as well as he's capable, and not many of them have anything to do with his athletic ability. Jones is going to have to dramatically improve in areas that take longer to improve in, where he's substandard to begin with, and developmentally behind as well.

In short, given the situation the Team/Coach/Offense finds itself in, and the areas that Walter is ahead of Jones, Jacoby Jones has to work much harder to overtake Walter than Walter has to stay ahead of Jones.

This is not meant to be a put-down of Jacoby Jones physical gifts. I admire and respect his athletic ability, and see him as a WR to watch, if he can put it all together, which the article leads us to believe that he's making strides. I don't currently own Andre Johnson in any Leagues. If I did, I'd be very interested in acquiring Jones as a safety net, but not at the cost of a WR I could legitimately use as a bye-week fill in Starter. If I was deep at WR, I'd be interested as well, especially in Dynasty, as a project to monitor, and potentially to boom in response to a somewhat likely probability that Andre Johnson will miss some time...but I'm not ready to have him on a Roster where I'm forced to rotate him into my Starting Lineup based on what I expect him to produce this Season, without injury playing a major factor in the amount of snaps he receives, and I don't factor that into my Drafting Strategy when evaluating the roster worthiness of 'project' WR's. In a typical start 3 League, I wouldn't draft him any higher than a WR6 or 7, where his value is all reward, and almost zero risk.

Barring injury (and the injury risk to Schaub and AJ I see as on the high side of moderate), I don't think there's anyone standing in the way of Walter FLOORING at 56/725/6, with reachable upside of 64/830/8. Most of us should have no problem getting #3WR production (25-48 Ranking depending on League Size (12/14/16) out of a Player we'll be able to Draft where most WR 5's are going to be going. That's pretty much grand theft, and something I'd like to do plenty of in August and September.

Kudos to Jacoby Jones for developing. I hope it continues, and we have a future NFL Monster on our radar for years to come. Just my opinion that it doesn't impact my predicted performance for Kevin Walter in 2010.

 
Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Aug. 21 2009 - 12:37 pm et

Texans WR Jacoby Jones is surprisingly fighting for a roster spot.

Jones is extremely talented but the Texans want him to improve mentally. The Texans are only planning on keeping five receivers and second-year man Darnell Jenkins is having a big camp. Still, we expect Jones to make the team and at least be a special teams factor.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Related: Darnell Jenkins

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Aug. 2 2009 - 9:06 am et

Jacoby Jones is making a strong impression as a receiver early in Texans training camp.

"When you're watching Jacoby, growing up is the key," coach Gary Kubiak said. Kubiak has suggested in the past that Jones was being held back by maturity issues. As perhaps the second most physically talented receiver on the Texans' roster, Jones is a player to watch.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Jun. 7 2009 - 10:58 am et

Special teams coach Joe Marciano says Jacoby Jones has made the most progress of all the Texans' receivers this offseason.

Jones has also drawn praise from head coach Gary Kubiak this offseason, but he's still slated to be the team's fifth receiver. His greatest value is on special teams. "We want him to be our Joshua Cribbs," said Marciano.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans May. 28 2008 - 12:54 pm et

Matt Schaub says second-year receiver Jacoby Jones "has made a huge step" with a full offseason.

"He's more mature," Schaub said. "Last year, his head was spinning." Jones admits separating his shoulder cost him confidence last season. "He's confident in what he's doing and having a great camp," Schaub added. Jones is a fourth receiver as it stands, but a big summer could vault him past Andre' Davis.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Jun. 2 2008 - 10:57 am et

Jacoby Jones has been running with the Texans' first-team offense with Andre Johnson (arthroscopic knee surgery) sidelined.

Andre' Davis got the starts last year when Johnson was hurt, but Jones clearly has the higher long-term ceiling. Davis is more likely to be used on special teams, while Jones could challenge Kevin Walter for a starting job.

Related: Kevin Walter, Andre' Davis

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Aug. 19 2008 - 12:51 am et

The Houston Chronicle suggests that Jacoby Jones is in danger of losing his roster spot to Harry Williams Jr.

We have a hard time believing this, if only because Jones was a third round pick in 2007. He also has more upside as a wideout than any Texan after Andre Johnson. Williams can cover kicks, but that's about it. It has become clear that Jones is no longer in the mix to be Houston's third receiver.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Related: Harry Williams Jr.

Jacoby Jones-WR- Texans Sep. 6 2008 - 10:13 am et

Jacoby Jones has been passed by David Anderson as the Texans No. 4 receiver.

Jones was thought to be the favorite for the No. 3 receiver job entering camp, so he's clearly regressed going into his second season. He's not worth a spot in redraft leagues, but Dynasty leaguers can stash him and hope for an in-season turnaround.

Source: Houston Chronicle

Related: David Anderson

My point is not to say Jones won't, in fact, displace Walter as the starter. But to reiterate that every offseason he and his teammates and the coaches talk about how he's more mature and finally ready to put it all together and then, when push comes to shove, it hasn't happened. Also, I'm not sure this is public but given his DUI arrests (plural), there's a good chance he's got several strikes in the league's substance abuse program [can anyone confirm this?]

 
I think I am going to regret passing on Jones in a recent startup dyno, just a gut feeling. I literally had him dialed up #1 in my queue for 5 straight rounds and kept going in other directions. My 1st rounder is AJ and if he were to go down and Jacoby'shead is finally on straight he's the appropriate handcuff. I'd say I was finally ready to take him after passing on him 5 times, and then seeing him fall off the board, but I had said that the 3 rounds prior and changed my mind.

I just have problems investing in a mid round prospect that's 3 years deep and his greatest hurdle is, and was, mental toughness. Mid round prospects need that if they're going to break through.

 
I think Walter and Jones cancel each other out, they will pretty much share targets behind AJ. I will say this, even though Jones has more potential, Walter is underrated. Jones ADP will probably be too high, and Walter is the better value come draft time.

 
So I looked up Jacoby's and Walter's 1st 3 years stats:

Jacoby: 15 149 0

3 81 0

27 437 6

Walter: 3 18 0

8 67 0

19 211 1

So the argument that Jacoby 'hasn't put it all together' as expected is pretty premature. Just looking Walter's stats shows that.

It may take a while for any NFL player (maybe morseo for a WR) to 'put it together'.

Many things may hold a player back; in Walter's case it was probably talent (and possibly some opportunity in Cincy), in Jacoby's case his immaturity.

In dynasty leagues, upside is important.

In that format, I'd take Jacoby over Walter, and hope that his maturity kicks in.

Classic risk/reward.

 
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Coach Gary Kubiak expects Jacoby Jones to compete with Kevin Walter for the starting job opposite Andre Johnson.

We're still not sure why the Texans overpaid to keep Walter ($8 million guaranteed) when Jones showed so much promise last year. With Trindon Holliday handling return duties, Jones is pushing for more offensive snaps. While Walter does the little things better, Jones has considerably more talent. He's a better fantasy pick than Walter this year. May. 28 - 12:22 pm et

Source: Houston Chronicle
Key word here. Of course he expects him to compete. Nothing to see here.Jones has been in the league three years, has 45 catches in three years, 27 last year was his career high.

Walter certainly is primed for a takeover but I wonder if it's Jones by default. They have three big rookie WRs and Jones has never done much to impress.

 
If anyone is wondering why Jones isn't starting should watch him play a full game not his highlights. He does some of the dumbest stuff on the field. He's basically the Aaron Brooks of wrs. Aaron Brooks always put up good numbers but he would always do about 2 stupid things in a game that would leave you with a very confused look on your face. I have no doubt that if he started he might put of good numbers or even better numbers that Walter but right now he just can't be trusted on the field.

 
If anyone is wondering why Jones isn't starting should watch him play a full game not his highlights. He does some of the dumbest stuff on the field. He's basically the Aaron Brooks of wrs. Aaron Brooks always put up good numbers but he would always do about 2 stupid things in a game that would leave you with a very confused look on your face. I have no doubt that if he started he might put of good numbers or even better numbers that Walter but right now he just can't be trusted on the field.
Sounds like Donnie Avery
 
Coach Gary Kubiak expects Jacoby Jones to compete with Kevin Walter for the starting job opposite Andre Johnson.

We're still not sure why the Texans overpaid to keep Walter ($8 million guaranteed) when Jones showed so much promise last year. With Trindon Holliday handling return duties, Jones is pushing for more offensive snaps. While Walter does the little things better, Jones has considerably more talent. He's a better fantasy pick than Walter this year. May. 28 - 12:22 pm et

Source: Houston Chronicle
Key word here. Of course he expects him to compete. Nothing to see here.Jones has been in the league three years, has 45 catches in three years, 27 last year was his career high.

Walter certainly is primed for a takeover but I wonder if it's Jones by default. They have three big rookie WRs and Jones has never done much to impress.
it took Walter until his 5th season to become the starter & he had 47 career receptions during that time

 
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Bump as Jacoby Jones has looked really good this preseason - how do people see this playing out?
Looking above at prymetyme's post ... I am wondering whether or not Jacoby Jones is carrying out his assignments more consistently. Maybe a Houston homer can comment on Jones' gaffes in the past, how they affected his offensive playing time, and whether or not Jones is improved in 2010.He was a rookie in 2007, right? This is about the time Jones should be showing something if he's ever going to be a reliable starting FF WR.

 
I'd like to see Walter retain the job. I think every team should be made to give at least a tryout to a white player at the skill positions, like a reverse Rooney rule that applies to coaches.

 
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I'd be interested to hear a Houston homer's perspective on Jones as well. It certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to own the #2 WR in that offense with Andre Johnson getting so much attention on the other side.

 
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I'd be interested to hear a Houston homer's perspective on Jones as well. It certainly wouldn't be a bad thing to own the #2 WR in that offense with Andre Johnson getting so much attention on the other side.
I will repeat what I wrote in a recent Kevin Walter threadEven if Jones "wins" the number 2, I doubt that it will be a clean number two. My guess is that both might wind up as good bye week flier types, but really frustrating for anyone wanting regular WR3 numbers out of either guy. I will say that barring an AJ injury the one more likely to have a explosive breakout is Jacoby, but that is a low percentage play, just on this side of a long-shot.
 
two_dollars said:
I'd like to see Walter retain the job. I think every team should be made to give at least a tryout to a white player at the skill positions, like a reverse Rooney rule that applies to coaches.
They tried him out last season...
 
I agree with coolnerd's feelings, I believe Walter will see the field in more of the base 2WR sets, but I see Jacoby having more targets. Jacoby is a big mismatch in 3WR sets, especially when you factor in a Owen Daniels/Joel Dreessen/James Casey working the middle of the field, so I think he will get more TDs than Walter as well with his field stretching, big play upside. Walter is a superior blocker and has more consistent hands, but he doesn't have the speed or athletic ability of Jones. If your league has return yardage points it should become a no brainer.

 

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