Jamaal Charles reminds me of Julius Jones (1 Viewer)

[shader]

Remember when Julius exploded onto the scenes in the 2004 season? He was running circles around defenses and looked faster than everyone else. In the final 7 games he had 803 yards.

Fast forward a year to 2005, an off-season that had alot of people drinking the koolaid, and you find a back that only broke 100 yards one time and finished with just under 1,000 yards, despite getting a strong workload.

Charles barely touched the ball in the first half of 2009, gaining around 150 yards in the first 8 games. Then we all know about the 1,000 yards in the final 8 games. (including a huge week 17 game against a pathetic broncos D)

Not sure why I posted this, as I think many owner's feel similar reservations about Jamaal..But I thought the comparison seemed just about right and thought I'd share.

Thoughts?

 

[Sweet Love]

I have no problems with that comparison. While Thomas Jones may be a one-year comparison (2010) to Barber (meaning new competition), if Charles does not establish himself as the #1 (with no #1A) in 2010 (i.e. he has to MAKE Haley/Weiss play him due to his superior performance over Jones), there will be another top 3 round pick knocking on his door in 2011.

 

[Chase Stuart]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD1			  Frank Gore  23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0  169 1023 6.05	52		   Curtis Martin  22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0  214  987 4.61	93		  Jamaal Charles  22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0  161  968 6.01	74		  Clinton Portis  21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0  159  946 5.95   115		 Adrian Peterson  23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0  187  937 5.01	46			Corey Dillon  23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0  194  933 4.81	87			 Jamal Lewis  21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0  202  927 4.59	58		  Walter Payton*  23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0  173  915 5.29	89		  Clinton Portis  22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0  159  909 5.72   1010			Kevin Jones  22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0  172  906 5.27	411		  Jerome Bettis  21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0  168  899 5.35	312		   Rueben Mayes  23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0  201  875 4.35	613		 Barry Sanders*  21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  168  873 5.20   1114	LaDainian Tomlinson  23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0  186  838 4.51	615		 Ottis Anderson  22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0  170  837 4.92	516		 Steven Jackson  23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  176  837 4.76	917		 Barry Sanders*  23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  182  827 4.54	918		 Dominic Rhodes  22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0  175  819 4.68	719		  Emmitt Smith*  23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  173  817 4.72	920		  George Rogers  22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0  200  815 4.08	8Rk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD21		Eric Dickerson*  23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  187  813 4.35	622		 Edgerrin James  21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0  173  807 4.66	823		   Julius Jones  23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0  192  803 4.18	724		  Emmitt Smith*  22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  201  796 3.96	725			Curt Warner  22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0  185  795 4.30	526		 Edgerrin James  22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0  187  788 4.21	527			Ahman Green  23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0  174  769 4.42	728			   Ray Rice  22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0  146  766 5.25	229		 Earl Campbell*  23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0  162  753 4.65	630	   Jonathan Stewart  22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0  134  749 5.59	6

Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

 

[LBH]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD1			  Frank Gore  23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0  169 1023 6.05	52		   Curtis Martin  22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0  214  987 4.61	93		  Jamaal Charles  22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0  161  968 6.01	74		  Clinton Portis  21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0  159  946 5.95   115		 Adrian Peterson  23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0  187  937 5.01	46			Corey Dillon  23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0  194  933 4.81	87			 Jamal Lewis  21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0  202  927 4.59	58		  Walter Payton*  23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0  173  915 5.29	89		  Clinton Portis  22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0  159  909 5.72   1010			Kevin Jones  22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0  172  906 5.27	411		  Jerome Bettis  21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0  168  899 5.35	312		   Rueben Mayes  23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0  201  875 4.35	613		 Barry Sanders*  21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  168  873 5.20   1114	LaDainian Tomlinson  23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0  186  838 4.51	615		 Ottis Anderson  22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0  170  837 4.92	516		 Steven Jackson  23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  176  837 4.76	917		 Barry Sanders*  23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  182  827 4.54	918		 Dominic Rhodes  22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0  175  819 4.68	719		  Emmitt Smith*  23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  173  817 4.72	920		  George Rogers  22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0  200  815 4.08	8Rk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD21		Eric Dickerson*  23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  187  813 4.35	622		 Edgerrin James  21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0  173  807 4.66	823		   Julius Jones  23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0  192  803 4.18	724		  Emmitt Smith*  22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  201  796 3.96	725			Curt Warner  22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0  185  795 4.30	526		 Edgerrin James  22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0  187  788 4.21	527			Ahman Green  23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0  174  769 4.42	728			   Ray Rice  22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0  146  766 5.25	229		 Earl Campbell*  23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0  162  753 4.65	630	   Jonathan Stewart  22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0  134  749 5.59	6

Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

wow. pretty good company up there

 

[shader]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

While that's interesting...I don't know that it accurately reflects the situation.Recall that Charles played extremely sparingly for the first 8 weeks. Many of those other backs played the entire season.

That means he's fresh when he steps on the field for week 9, and he's playing defenses that are a step or two slower. I'll never forget how fast Julius Jones looked in 2004 compared to defenses. The "fresh legs" syndrome.

Also, many of the above listed players were thought to be studs. Portis, Peterson, Jamal Lewis, Sanders, Tomlinson. These are bigtime players with bigtime potential.

Charles was on many waiver wires last season, got an opportunity and ran with it.

I appreciate what he did, I'm just of the opinion that when he plays from day 1 against fresh defenses, the outcome could very easily be similar to that of Julius.

 

[LittlePhatty]

KC has a nice looking schedule for running the ball (I think Top 5 for rushing SOS).

But I'm predicting that Thomas Jones has more FF points than Charles at the end of the year. I'm just not buying him. Gut feeling mostly.

 

[unckeyherb]

I am with you. I posted in his spotlight another RB situation that this reminds me of. Pierre Thomas, who really broke out big time in the second half of the '08 season. He had a lot of people extrapolating his end of year stats across a 16 game schedule and convincing themselves that he was something that he wasn't: a viable RB1. Fool me once... and so on and so forth. I have no worries as he is being kept in my league, I won't be faced with the proposition of making the decision to draft him or not.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

 

[footballsavvy]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

While that's interesting...I don't know that it accurately reflects the situation.Recall that Charles played extremely sparingly for the first 8 weeks. Many of those other backs played the entire season.

That means he's fresh when he steps on the field for week 9, and he's playing defenses that are a step or two slower. I'll never forget how fast Julius Jones looked in 2004 compared to defenses. The "fresh legs" syndrome.

Also, many of the above listed players were thought to be studs. Portis, Peterson, Jamal Lewis, Sanders, Tomlinson. These are bigtime players with bigtime potential.

Charles was on many waiver wires last season, got an opportunity and ran with it.

I appreciate what he did, I'm just of the opinion that when he plays from day 1 against fresh defenses, the outcome could very easily be similar to that of Julius.

Dissmiss it any way you want, but you clearly hand picked the one example to fit your arguemnt. Perhaps you are correct, but I'm not betting my hard earned money on it. There's a difference in "fresh legs" and running circles around NFL defenses for 9 straight weeks. Jamaal may have been on waiver wires in fantasy football leagues learly last season, but he was still a 2nd round draft choice (as determined by NFL scounts) one season prior.The arguments that KC sucks as a running team is an odd one considering Jamaals success last season on that exact team. That's like saying Drew Brees won't be good this year because the Saints only attempted 514 passes last year and will likely do the same this year. If Frank Gore ranked #5 fantasy RB on 229 carries and 52 receptions, based on his talent I see no reason Jamaal can't rank in the top 10 with a very similar number of rushes and receptions. I think TJ will get between 150 and 180 carries and JC will get between 200-240. I think Charles will also have 45-60 receptions, making him a nearly elite option in PPR leagues.

 

[unckeyherb]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

 

[Sweet Love]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

While that's interesting...I don't know that it accurately reflects the situation.Recall that Charles played extremely sparingly for the first 8 weeks. Many of those other backs played the entire season.

That means he's fresh when he steps on the field for week 9, and he's playing defenses that are a step or two slower. I'll never forget how fast Julius Jones looked in 2004 compared to defenses. The "fresh legs" syndrome.

Also, many of the above listed players were thought to be studs. Portis, Peterson, Jamal Lewis, Sanders, Tomlinson. These are bigtime players with bigtime potential.

Charles was on many waiver wires last season, got an opportunity and ran with it.

I appreciate what he did, I'm just of the opinion that when he plays from day 1 against fresh defenses, the outcome could very easily be similar to that of Julius.

I'll take this a step further, and while I am extremely impressed with what he did, (1) what round were the majority of those guys picked in (that is a loaded question, most were 1st rounders) and (2) what percentage of those players were second year RBs? I bring these two points up because while being a 1st rounder or a 6th rounder does not matter much in year 5, it means an awful lot in years 2-3. Take Slaton for example; he had his issues last year, but overall, got some good numbers. They bring in not only Foster (the next year), but Tate the following...if our boy put up the same numbers and was a 1st rounder, only one of those guys behind him would be there..

 

[Mark Wimer]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

But that list isn't adjusted for the fact that Charles had a bunch of cupcake defenses to face in the second half of the season, and those opponents were mostly just playing out the string (eliminated from playoff contention). My .

 

[Mark Wimer]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

 

[Sabertooth]

It begs the question, why did the Chiefs add Jones. How many of the backs on that list added a back of Jones' caliber the following season? I'd venture to say less than a handful. So why was Jones brought in? Charity? I doubt it.

 

[Sweet Love]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

Yeah, I have to say, if there is "stinky bait" out there this year, it is Charles...Not that he can't be good, but where is goes is just too high for me.

 

[gianmarco]

It begs the question, why did the Chiefs add Jones. How many of the backs on that list added a back of Jones' caliber the following season? I'd venture to say less than a handful. So why was Jones brought in? Charity? I doubt it.

Should they have stuck with Jackie Battle as his backup instead? You realize they had to bring in SOMEONE, right? If you're going to bring in someone, why not bring in the best available FA, especially if coming at such a low cost. Part of it is to carry some of the load, part of it is insurance in the event of injury. He's only getting $2.5 million/year which is pennies.

 

[MongoL3]

KC has a nice looking schedule for running the ball (I think Top 5 for rushing SOS).But I'm predicting that Thomas Jones has more FF points than Charles at the end of the year. I'm just not buying him. Gut feeling mostly.

Thats what the fantasy game is all about. You win some, you lose some...we'll find out soon enough

 

[unckeyherb]

It begs the question, why did the Chiefs add Jones. How many of the backs on that list added a back of Jones' caliber the following season? I'd venture to say less than a handful. So why was Jones brought in? Charity? I doubt it.

Should they have stuck with Jackie Battle as his backup instead? You realize they had to bring in SOMEONE, right? If you're going to bring in someone, why not bring in the best available FA, especially if coming at such a low cost. Part of it is to carry some of the load, part of it is insurance in the event of injury. He's only getting $2.5 million/year which is pennies.

no question. But to write off the fact that they brought in one of the top rushers over the last five years as simply a required personnel move smacks of tunnel-vision. I get that people are hyped by JC's end of season run last year and its easy to get caught up in it. Trust me, I did it with Slaton last year. My point is that everything has an impact on everything else. The signing of someone that has averaged 1350 rushing yards over the last half a decade at a minimum gives me pause, as it should you. When you factor in where JC is going in drafts, it makes him even less palatable to me and I will most likely not be drafting him in any leagues.We'll see.

 

[r0llin_game]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD1			  Frank Gore  23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0  169 1023 6.05	52		   Curtis Martin  22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0  214  987 4.61	93		  Jamaal Charles  22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0  161  968 6.01	74		  Clinton Portis  21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0  159  946 5.95   115		 Adrian Peterson  23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0  187  937 5.01	46			Corey Dillon  23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0  194  933 4.81	87			 Jamal Lewis  21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0  202  927 4.59	58		  Walter Payton*  23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0  173  915 5.29	89		  Clinton Portis  22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0  159  909 5.72   1010			Kevin Jones  22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0  172  906 5.27	411		  Jerome Bettis  21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0  168  899 5.35	312		   Rueben Mayes  23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0  201  875 4.35	613		 Barry Sanders*  21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  168  873 5.20   1114	LaDainian Tomlinson  23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0  186  838 4.51	615		 Ottis Anderson  22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0  170  837 4.92	516		 Steven Jackson  23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  176  837 4.76	917		 Barry Sanders*  23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  182  827 4.54	918		 Dominic Rhodes  22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0  175  819 4.68	719		  Emmitt Smith*  23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  173  817 4.72	920		  George Rogers  22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0  200  815 4.08	8Rk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD21		Eric Dickerson*  23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  187  813 4.35	622		 Edgerrin James  21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0  173  807 4.66	823		   Julius Jones  23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0  192  803 4.18	724		  Emmitt Smith*  22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  201  796 3.96	725			Curt Warner  22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0  185  795 4.30	526		 Edgerrin James  22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0  187  788 4.21	527			Ahman Green  23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0  174  769 4.42	728			   Ray Rice  22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0  146  766 5.25	229		 Earl Campbell*  23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0  162  753 4.65	630	   Jonathan Stewart  22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0  134  749 5.59	6

Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

But he didn't goto 'THE U'

 

[LBH]

Thomas Jones isnt bringing the Jets OL with him. I think he gets exposed big time this year but time will tell

 

[Mark Wimer]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

Yeah, I have to say, if there is "stinky bait" out there this year, it is Charles...Not that he can't be good, but where is goes is just too high for me.

Yeah, this is the reason Charles won't be on any of my teams. Heck, in a 14-team IDP league redraft that just finished up, Charles was the 11th back off the board (ahead of guys like Ryan Grant, Pierre Thomas, Shonn Greene, etc). There is no way I am willing to pay the hyped price for Charles this year. He is too rich in ADP for my blood/teams.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I think we see Julius Jones in a negative light now because he has underwhelmed for quite some time now.

But even after that rookie year when he exploded onto the scene, the following year in 12 games (he played in 13, but played 1/2 of one and was eased back after injury in another upon his return), he had 1211 YFS. Now Parcells was giving him the football 20+ times/game, and he did onyl have 5 TD's. But it would be tough to argue that he wasn't productive that season. Did he meet expectations after such a explosive rookie showing though, no.

Even the following year, he wasn't half bad with over 1200 YFS, but it became apparent that he wasn't going to be the guy near the goal line (Marion Barber III began to sink his teeth into that role). It wasn't until Wade Phillips came on board that Jones entered into career purgatory.

The point is though that if Charles does remind you of Jones, that may not be a bad thing. Jones put up decent enough RB2 numbers in the 2 seasons that followed. The one thing I believe the Chiefs are doing right though is recognizing early that Charles should not be cast as a 20-25 carry/game back and have thus fortified that position so he doesn;t have to be. Dallas rode Jones into the ground early on, miscasting him as something he wasn't.

Also, even in that impressive rookie showing, Jones only average 4.2 YPC. His value was in his heavy usage in as much as it was about his production. Charles toted a 5.9 YPC. Not saying he will do the same, but he's a homerun hitter RB; he had 7 carries of 30+ yards in the seasons last half. Jones only had 2 such runs during his hot stretch.

 

[unckeyherb]

I think we see Julius Jones in a negative light now because he has underwhelmed for quite some time now.But even after that rookie year when he exploded onto the scene, the following year in 12 games (he played in 13, but played 1/2 of one and was eased back after injury in another upon his return), he had 1211 YFS. Now Parcells was giving him the football 20+ times/game, and he did onyl have 5 TD's. But it would be tough to argue that he wasn't productive that season. Did he meet expectations after such a explosive rookie showing though, no.Even the following year, he wasn't half bad with over 1200 YFS, but it became apparent that he wasn't going to be the guy near the goal line (Marion Barber III began to sink his teeth into that role). It wasn't until Wade Phillips came on board that Jones entered into career purgatory.The point is though that if Charles does remind you of Jones, that may not be a bad thing. Jones put up decent enough RB2 numbers in the 2 seasons that followed. The one thing I believe the Chiefs are doing right though is recognizing early that Charles should not be cast as a 20-25 carry/game back and have thus fortified that position so he doesn;t have to be. Dallas rode Jones into the ground early on, miscasting him as something he wasn't. Also, even in that impressive rookie showing, Jones only average 4.2 YPC. His value was in his heavy usage in as much as it was about his production. Charles toted a 5.9 YPC. Not saying he will do the same, but he's a homerun hitter RB; he had 7 carries of 30+ yards in the seasons last half. Jones only had 2 such runs during his hot stretch.

good post, I didn't realize that JJones still put up those numbers. The same problem remains. JCharles is being drafted as a RB1 or a high end RB2. That doesn't leave a lot of room for upside and leaves a big chance for disappointment.

 

[The Jacket]

Julius Jones.

When all else fails, watch the games. Heck, even the highlights if you can't watch the games. Jones isn't in Charles' league. Never has been, never will be. Pass on him because you're scared of Jones or his ADP or whatever, but Julius Jones? Come on now.

 

[Sabertooth]

Thomas Jones isnt bringing the Jets OL with him. I think he gets exposed big time this year but time will tell

Funny, I think Greene gets exposed. But time will tell as you say.

 

[destro]

It begs the question, why did the Chiefs add Jones. How many of the backs on that list added a back of Jones' caliber the following season? I'd venture to say less than a handful. So why was Jones brought in? Charity? I doubt it.

Some people are looking at Jones's 2009 total stats and ignoring everything else here. If you think KC signing Jones is odd, was your mind also blown by the fact that the Jets let Jones go instead of signing him for peanuts, like the Chiefs did? Were you also shocked that the Jets paid about the same amount of money for LT? The thing that made this series of events possible was the plainly apparent fact that the career of Thomas Jones is on the decline. He will only get worse from here on out, and the Jets knew as much. Apparently, they preferred more of a shifty pass-catching back to compliment Greene rather than a truck of a RB that is breaking down. RBs like Jones decline rapidly, and his decline has clearly been signaled. Towards the end of last season, Jones was running out of gas, and his performance suffered. Then, he looked terrible in the playoffs, averaging just 2.6 yards per carry over 45 attempts. Transplant that same, aging RB on to a KC team with a far inferior OL, and suddenly, those year end stats from 2009 don't mean a whole lot. Even if Charles breaks his femur tomorrow, Jones will never come close to his production from 2009.The Chiefs had nothing behind Charles, and they needed a RB. Jones was available, and relatively cheap. So, they signed him. That's all that happened here. It's not like Chiefs stumbled into some unbelievable find off the waiver wire. He's just not that great anymore, and he will only get worse. Don't let Haley's coaching mindgames and last year's stats distract you from this fact.

 

[Creed Bratton]

It begs the question, why did the Chiefs add Jones. How many of the backs on that list added a back of Jones' caliber the following season? I'd venture to say less than a handful. So why was Jones brought in? Charity? I doubt it.

Some people are looking at Jones's 2009 total stats and ignoring everything else here. If you think KC signing Jones is odd, was your mind also blown by the fact that the Jets let Jones go instead of signing him for peanuts, like the Chiefs did? Were you also shocked that the Jets paid about the same amount of money for LT? The thing that made this series of events possible was the plainly apparent fact that the career of Thomas Jones is on the decline. He will only get worse from here on out, and the Jets knew as much. Apparently, they preferred more of a shifty pass-catching back to compliment Greene rather than a truck of a RB that is breaking down. RBs like Jones decline rapidly, and his decline has clearly been signaled. Towards the end of last season, Jones was running out of gas, and his performance suffered. Then, he looked terrible in the playoffs, averaging just 2.6 yards per carry over 45 attempts. Transplant that same, aging RB on to a KC team with a far inferior OL, and suddenly, those year end stats from 2009 don't mean a whole lot. Even if Charles breaks his femur tomorrow, Jones will never come close to his production from 2009.The Chiefs had nothing behind Charles, and they needed a RB. Jones was available, and relatively cheap. So, they signed him. That's all that happened here. It's not like Chiefs stumbled into some unbelievable find off the waiver wire. He's just not that great anymore, and he will only get worse. Don't let Haley's coaching mindgames and last year's stats distract you from this fact.

I can't understand why people don't see this. I personally think Charles is talented, but I could understand if people aren't sold on him because they've only seen him for half a season and don't want to risk a high pick on a player they're not confident about. I can even understand if people are skeptical about a possible timeshare and would prefer to take someone they know is going to get more carries. I just can't fathom the viewpoint that some posters have that Jones is somehow a superior runner and is going to outplay Charles.

 

[two_dollars]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

But that list isn't adjusted for the fact that Charles had a bunch of cupcake defenses to face in the second half of the season, and those opponents were mostly just playing out the string (eliminated from playoff contention). My :( .

oh, ok.. can you tell me which ones ARE adjusted for cupcake defenses?

 

[Hoot&HoLLer]

Thomas Jones isnt bringing the Jets OL with him. I think he gets exposed big time this year but time will tell

My thoughts exactly. Thomas Jones wasn't exactly tearing the league up before his Jets stint.

 

[Original]

TJ is her to keep Charles fresh and i think we will see he has more than JJ had to offer.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

 

[Mark Wimer]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

But that list isn't adjusted for the fact that Charles had a bunch of cupcake defenses to face in the second half of the season, and those opponents were mostly just playing out the string (eliminated from playoff contention). My .

oh, ok.. can you tell me which ones ARE adjusted for cupcake defenses?

My point exactly. The raw stats may lead one to group Charles with Gore or Portis, but we need a more nuanced analysis before the above set of 30 stats tells us much of anything. There is no question that Charles feasted on bad run defenses - he killed me in the playoffs in two leagues - but backs at the NFL level SHOULD HAVE FEASTED on those dis-spirited, very subpar units.

Against Pittsburgh in week 11, he ran the ball 17 times for 58 yards (and added 2/8/1 receiving to salvage the day for his fantasy owners). 2.15 yards per carry against one of the few decent defenses that he faced.

Color me unimpressed.

 

[Gopher State]

Charles to me is a carbon copy of Steve Slaton. Mr Slaton ended the prior season with four of his last seven games with over 100 yards rushing—just like Charles. Slaton was a "can't miss" RB last year, just like everyone is calling Charles this year.

I want no part of RBBC, which will cost me a SECOND round pick in most FF drafts, and the guy your getting (Charles) is not going to be getting the goal line carries.

Jones rushed for 1400 yards last year sharing with a RB named Greene who might be as good? or better then Charles. Plus Jones is running with the first team right now, no matter what Jones will get his fair share of touches, and the golden goal line ones go to Jones.

I will wait until later in FF drafts for guys like Addia, Stewart who will put up better numbers then Charles at a much lower price.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD1 Frank Gore 23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0 169 1023 6.05 52 Curtis Martin 22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0 214 987 4.61 93 Jamaal Charles 22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0 161 968 6.01 74 Clinton Portis 21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0 159 946 5.95 115 Adrian Peterson 23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0 187 937 5.01 46 Corey Dillon 23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0 194 933 4.81 87 Jamal Lewis 21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0 202 927 4.59 58 Walter Payton* 23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0 173 915 5.29 89 Clinton Portis 22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0 159 909 5.72 1010 Kevin Jones 22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0 172 906 5.27 411 Jerome Bettis 21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0 168 899 5.35 312 Rueben Mayes 23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0 201 875 4.35 613 Barry Sanders* 21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 168 873 5.20 1114 LaDainian Tomlinson 23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0 186 838 4.51 615 Ottis Anderson 22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0 170 837 4.92 516 Steven Jackson 23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 176 837 4.76 917 Barry Sanders* 23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0 182 827 4.54 918 Dominic Rhodes 22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0 175 819 4.68 719 Emmitt Smith* 23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 173 817 4.72 920 George Rogers 22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0 200 815 4.08 8Rk Player Age Year Lg Tm G W L T Att Yds Y/A TD21 Eric Dickerson* 23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0 187 813 4.35 622 Edgerrin James 21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0 173 807 4.66 823 Julius Jones 23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0 192 803 4.18 724 Emmitt Smith* 22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0 201 796 3.96 725 Curt Warner 22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0 185 795 4.30 526 Edgerrin James 22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0 187 788 4.21 527 Ahman Green 23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0 174 769 4.42 728 Ray Rice 22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0 146 766 5.25 229 Earl Campbell* 23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0 162 753 4.65 630 Jonathan Stewart 22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0 134 749 5.59 6Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

Thanks, Chase.

 

[PahtyTom]

Remember when Julius exploded onto the scenes in the 2004 season? He was running circles around defenses and looked faster than everyone else. In the final 7 games he had 803 yards.Fast forward a year to 2005, an off-season that had alot of people drinking the koolaid, and you find a back that only broke 100 yards one time and finished with just under 1,000 yards, despite getting a strong workload.Charles barely touched the ball in the first half of 2009, gaining around 150 yards in the first 8 games. Then we all know about the 1,000 yards in the final 8 games. (including a huge week 17 game against a pathetic broncos D)Not sure why I posted this, as I think many owner's feel similar reservations about Jamaal..But I thought the comparison seemed just about right and thought I'd share.Thoughts?

 

[Chase Stuart]

There is no question that Charles feasted on bad run defenses - he killed me in the playoffs in two leagues - but backs at the NFL level SHOULD HAVE FEASTED on those dis-spirited, very subpar units. Against Pittsburgh in week 11, he ran the ball 17 times for 58 yards (and added 2/8/1 receiving to salvage the day for his fantasy owners). 2.15 yards per carry against one of the few decent defenses that he faced. Color me unimpressed.

I dunno if that's fair, Mark. The last four weeks he roasted Buffalo, Cleveland and Denver, all of whom had bad rush defenses as you alluded to. On the other hand:1) His performance against the Bills was still one of the two-to-four best performances by any running back against Buffalo. Yes, they stunk, but he beat up Buffalo in a comparable way to what Chris Johnson did, and only Thomas Jones (22-210-1) had a clearly better game all season long against the Bills.2) Yes, Cleveland wasn't very good last year, but they did play better at the end of the season, winning all of their last four matchups, including against Charles' Chiefs. In week 1, Adrian Peterson tore the Browns to shreds, but Cleveland clearly was a different team at the end of the year. And can you show me another RB after week 1 that did better against Cleveland then Charles?3) Sure, Denver's run D wasn't very good last season. But no one else came within 100 yards of the 259 he put up against the Broncos.4) The last game in the final quarter of the season came against the Bengals, a team with a great defense in '09. Charles' 24-102 stat line was one of the best performances by any RB against Cincinnati. Only Jerome Harrison topped him with 29-121.I can see the argument that Charles ran roughshod over bad defenses (Cincy excluded). I don't see how you would be unimpressed, though.

 

[destro]

My point exactly. The raw stats may lead one to group Charles with Gore or Portis, but we need a more nuanced analysis before the above set of 30 stats tells us much of anything. There is no question that Charles feasted on bad run defenses - he killed me in the playoffs in two leagues - but backs at the NFL level SHOULD HAVE FEASTED on those dis-spirited, very subpar units. Against Pittsburgh in week 11, he ran the ball 17 times for 58 yards (and added 2/8/1 receiving to salvage the day for his fantasy owners). 2.15 yards per carry against one of the few decent defenses that he faced. Color me unimpressed.

So, to clarify: you think that Charles played many more games against very bad run defenses than Gore or Portis, thereby inflating his stats into the same range as Gore, Portis, et al. Is that right? Are you sure that Gore and Portis didn't play against many bad defenses those years? What about the fact that Charles was playing a KC OL, that is, by all accounts I've seen, well below average? What about the fact that the season in question for Portis came behind a dominant zone-blocking OL known for turning nobodies into a NFL quality runningbacks?It seems like you're grasping for data to prove your pre-conceived hypothesis, rather than looking at the data and then forming a hypothesis. Did you watch him play? Do you REALLY think he's not an impressive talent? I mean, no offense, but that just seems hard to defend. It would be different if you said you don't think he can hold up to 25+ carries a week, don't like the potential for RBBC, and were skeptical for that reason, but to simply say you are unimpressed by him seems bizarre. That is not the typical complaint about Jamaal Charles.And what is going on with those numbers you quoted? 17 carries for 58 yards is not 2.15 yards per carry. That's 3.41 yards per carry, which, while not great, is still not bad considering the fact that Pittsburgh had one of the best run defenses in the league last year. What about his game against the Bengals? Was that just luck?

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

Well, one interesting thing I've noticed is that I've talked to half the owners in my league this last week to line up preparations for our draft this weekend and I'm pretty sure that he is gonna slide to round four in my ten teamer. Do you guys that are down on him think that that would be value?

Everybody has heard that Jones is running with the first team. I'm not saying that reaching for him in round 2 is a good idea but I remember having some good years when I managed to get Westbrook in the third or fourth because some leagues have really conservative owners.

 

[shader]

I think we see Julius Jones in a negative light now because he has underwhelmed for quite some time now.But even after that rookie year when he exploded onto the scene, the following year in 12 games (he played in 13, but played 1/2 of one and was eased back after injury in another upon his return), he had 1211 YFS. Now Parcells was giving him the football 20+ times/game, and he did onyl have 5 TD's. But it would be tough to argue that he wasn't productive that season. Did he meet expectations after such a explosive rookie showing though, no.Even the following year, he wasn't half bad with over 1200 YFS, but it became apparent that he wasn't going to be the guy near the goal line (Marion Barber III began to sink his teeth into that role). It wasn't until Wade Phillips came on board that Jones entered into career purgatory.The point is though that if Charles does remind you of Jones, that may not be a bad thing. Jones put up decent enough RB2 numbers in the 2 seasons that followed. The one thing I believe the Chiefs are doing right though is recognizing early that Charles should not be cast as a 20-25 carry/game back and have thus fortified that position so he doesn;t have to be. Dallas rode Jones into the ground early on, miscasting him as something he wasn't. Also, even in that impressive rookie showing, Jones only average 4.2 YPC. His value was in his heavy usage in as much as it was about his production. Charles toted a 5.9 YPC. Not saying he will do the same, but he's a homerun hitter RB; he had 7 carries of 30+ yards in the seasons last half. Jones only had 2 such runs during his hot stretch.

I'm not saying Charles is going to suck. He'll have some good games, he's still explosive, and he will still be a playmaker. But at this point, the 2nd and 3rd round seems WAY too high for me.

 

[shader]

Well, one interesting thing I've noticed is that I've talked to half the owners in my league this last week to line up preparations for our draft this weekend and I'm pretty sure that he is gonna slide to round four in my ten teamer. Do you guys that are down on him think that that would be value?Everybody has heard that Jones is running with the first team. I'm not saying that reaching for him in round 2 is a good idea but I remember having some good years when I managed to get Westbrook in the third or fourth because some leagues have really conservative owners.

If I'm taking Charles, I wanna have a few things nailed down first. 1. A stud RB2. A top WR3. A 2nd RB or a top 8 or 9 QBThat obviously means the 4th is where I'd like to take Charles. As a few posters have alluded to, his production was pretty significant, and puts him on levels shared with guys like Portis, Peterson, Sanders, etc.However, I've mentioned the reasons that I have reservations, and so I don't want to be left relying on Charles as my number 1 RB, as PERSONALLY, he reminds me a little bit of Julius. Getting massive playing time mid-year, against tired defenses, that mostly weren't very good.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Yeah I don't have anything against him, but whenever he's available I already have a better RB1 and would rather take someone else in the 2nd. I would consider him in the late 3rd if I had like Turner/Peyton to begin. Maybe. Hasn't happened in any mocks for me yet.

 

[todisco1]

McCluster may get a few carries a game as well, has 5 in tonight's pre-season so far... even if they mainly use him as a wideout and he only gets 2-4 carries a game, that will take away from Charles a bit.

 

[The Jacket]

Another game, another 10ypc outing.

Enjoy passing on him for the Ryan Grant's of the world. Heh.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

CHarles with 4/37 on the ground, 2/6 receiving...6 touches, about 6 points in PPR on limited time tonight. Guy has that pinball feel to him we love.

 

[Shadows]

I can understand people being wary and scared of getting torched by Charles. Small Sample Size-Bad Run D's etc. Ultimately these decisions can make or break ur fantasy season in taking Charles. But put me firmly in the corner of the PRO Charles camp. Whenever the ANTI Charles camp make some good points, I just click on this link and remember just how good he looked last year. CJ Good. People had resrevations about CJ last year as well with some guys predicting a drop off. Look how that turned out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDJg6cW5lc

I suppose what im saying is sometimes u just have "Trust ur Eyes", over what u read and see projected for others.

 

[Bayhawks]

Well, one interesting thing I've noticed is that I've talked to half the owners in my league this last week to line up preparations for our draft this weekend and I'm pretty sure that he is gonna slide to round four in my ten teamer. Do you guys that are down on him think that that would be value?Everybody has heard that Jones is running with the first team. I'm not saying that reaching for him in round 2 is a good idea but I remember having some good years when I managed to get Westbrook in the third or fourth because some leagues have really conservative owners.

If I'm taking Charles, I wanna have a few things nailed down first. 1. A stud RB2. A top WR3. A 2nd RB or a top 8 or 9 QBThat obviously means the 4th is where I'd like to take Charles. As a few posters have alluded to, his production was pretty significant, and puts him on levels shared with guys like Portis, Peterson, Sanders, etc.However, I've mentioned the reasons that I have reservations, and so I don't want to be left relying on Charles as my number 1 RB, as PERSONALLY, he reminds me a little bit of Julius. Getting massive playing time mid-year, against tired defenses, that mostly weren't very good.

I'll move backwards here. 1st-KC's SOS versus the run looks pretty soft again this year, so if he was able to tear it up last year against soft defenses, he should have that same opportunity this year.2nd-Jones being in KC should help Charles to stay fresher, which goes along with the "fresh legs/tired defense" aspect of last year.3rd-I would not feel comfortable with Charles as my #1, either, but that is more because there are very few non-RBBC situations anymore, and with my #1 RB, I want one of those guys. As my #2, though, I like Charles.

 

[Brady Gaga]

I can understand people being wary and scared of getting torched by Charles. Small Sample Size-Bad Run D's etc. Ultimately these decisions can make or break ur fantasy season in taking Charles. But put me firmly in the corner of the PRO Charles camp. Whenever the ANTI Charles camp make some good points, I just click on this link and remember just how good he looked last year. CJ Good. People had resrevations about CJ last year as well with some guys predicting a drop off. Look how that turned out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDJg6cW5lc

My league bonuses long distance TDs so the temptation to draft Jamaal Charles as high as early round 2 may be too much for me to pass up. Right now I have him behind Turner, Greene, Gore and DeAngelo but ahead of SJax. I think the JC/TJ situation will be much like Rice/McGahee last year. TJ will annoy JC owners by stealing GL TDs all year like McGahee did to Rice but in the end, JC will get his top 7-8 RB numbers through big play long distance TDs.

And maybe JC was "only" lighting up bad defenses last year but look at his schedule - more bad defenses on the horizon.

High Risk High Reward Pick.

 

[Sopranos25]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny/Slu41

In a single season, from 1960 to 2009, age 23 or younger, in the regular season, from team's 9th game to 16th game, sorted by descending Rushing Yds.

Rush Rush Rush RushRk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD1			  Frank Gore  23 2006 NFL SFO 8 4 4 0  169 1023 6.05	52		   Curtis Martin  22 1995 NFL NWE 8 4 4 0  214  987 4.61	93		  Jamaal Charles  22 2009 NFL KAN 8 3 5 0  161  968 6.01	74		  Clinton Portis  21 2002 NFL DEN 8 3 5 0  159  946 5.95   115		 Adrian Peterson  23 2008 NFL MIN 8 6 2 0  187  937 5.01	46			Corey Dillon  23 1997 NFL CIN 8 6 2 0  194  933 4.81	87			 Jamal Lewis  21 2000 NFL RAV 8 7 1 0  202  927 4.59	58		  Walter Payton*  23 1977 NFL CHI 6 6 0 0  173  915 5.29	89		  Clinton Portis  22 2003 NFL DEN 6 4 2 0  159  909 5.72   1010			Kevin Jones  22 2004 NFL DET 8 2 6 0  172  906 5.27	411		  Jerome Bettis  21 1993 NFL RAM 8 3 5 0  168  899 5.35	312		   Rueben Mayes  23 1986 NFL NOR 8 4 4 0  201  875 4.35	613		 Barry Sanders*  21 1989 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  168  873 5.20   1114	LaDainian Tomlinson  23 2002 NFL SDG 8 2 6 0  186  838 4.51	615		 Ottis Anderson  22 1979 NFL CRD 8 3 5 0  170  837 4.92	516		 Steven Jackson  23 2006 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  176  837 4.76	917		 Barry Sanders*  23 1991 NFL DET 8 6 2 0  182  827 4.54	918		 Dominic Rhodes  22 2001 NFL CLT 8 2 6 0  175  819 4.68	719		  Emmitt Smith*  23 1992 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  173  817 4.72	920		  George Rogers  22 1981 NFL NOR 8 2 6 0  200  815 4.08	8Rk				 Player Age Year  Lg  Tm G W L T  Att  Yds  Y/A   TD21		Eric Dickerson*  23 1983 NFL RAM 8 4 4 0  187  813 4.35	622		 Edgerrin James  21 1999 NFL CLT 8 7 1 0  173  807 4.66	823		   Julius Jones  23 2004 NFL DAL 7 3 4 0  192  803 4.18	724		  Emmitt Smith*  22 1991 NFL DAL 8 6 2 0  201  796 3.96	725			Curt Warner  22 1983 NFL SEA 8 5 3 0  185  795 4.30	526		 Edgerrin James  22 2000 NFL CLT 8 4 4 0  187  788 4.21	527			Ahman Green  23 2000 NFL GNB 8 6 2 0  174  769 4.42	728			   Ray Rice  22 2009 NFL RAV 8 5 3 0  146  766 5.25	229		 Earl Campbell*  23 1978 NFL OTI 8 5 3 0  162  753 4.65	630	   Jonathan Stewart  22 2009 NFL CAR 8 5 3 0  134  749 5.59	6

Seems to have more in common with Frank Gore or Clinton Portis, based on the YPC and rushing yards.

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

 

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Thoughts?

My thoughts are that Julius Jones has no relevance to Jamal Charles. While you may not be a beleiver in Charles, bringing up Julius Jones doesn't really add anything to the dicussion.Some one could just as easily say remember when Larry Johnson tore it up in the second half of the season after Priest Holmes got hurt and then went on to rush for 1,800 yards and 17 TDs the next season? - and it would mean just as much.

True, but I think his brother does. Say what you want about his age, but Thomas Jones rushed for more yards last year than everyone but SJax and Johnson and scored more TDs than everyone but ADP and MJD. There is no way his impact on Charles won't be felt. IMO for their respective ADP Jones is the back to have in KC. He might outscore Charles and can be had many, many rounds later.

I've been trying to tell people this as well. Charles gets the Receptions but Jones likely gets the goalline work. I think Jones gets 75-85% of the points charles does (with a bellcurve variance outside that) and you're talking about 2nd round vs 8-10th rounds. IMO Jones can be had as a RB3 and will perform like a great RB2 this year. Charles will likely produce at RB1 numbers but there are guys with a little less risk (admittedly also with a little less upside as well).

If it wasn't for McCluster I'd be a more confident in Charles' ability to finish top 10. That one extra mouth might keep him from earning his ADP. We'll see....

 

[[icon]]

Great post.. good info.. if you dont like him dont draft him or reply. its that easy..

I thought this was a FF discussion board? Since when was this place about shutting out contrarian opinions? Particularly in a thread where the OP was geared toward that very mindset?