Jason Campbell (1 Viewer)

[redman]

Joe Gibbs just had his last press conference of this season. During that he said some interesting things about both Campbell and Ramsey. About Ramsey he said that he had spoken to him today and they had agreed to take a few weeks and then to reapproach each other about how to go from here. As for Campbell, when asked Gibbs said that if he'd been put into a game (presumably later in the season) he would have been fine. He praised him for his accuracy and ability to make plays with his feet, and he then said, "It's time for him to play." My read: Ramsey will definitely not be the starter next year, and will likely be playing for another team. Brunell's back as the incumbent starter but Campbell will get a shot to show what he can do during the mini-camps, training camp and preseason. This could be an interesting position battle to watch because, as good as Brunell played, he wore down as the season progressed and there was a lot of room for improvement.

 

[cstu]

They didn't trade all those picks to have him sit the bench behind Brunell for long.

 

[hooptd]

They didn't trade all those picks to have him sit the bench behind Brunell for long.

I sure as hell hope Jason plays next year. As good as Brunnell looked at times this year, he is not the answer. I do not like him and I'm tired of seeing him miss wide open receivers. I know the offences problems are not all his but a better qb could obviously help big time.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

They should do what Cincy did. "Thanks for what you did for us last season Brunell. Here's a cushion to use when you sit on the bench."

 

[Colin Dowling]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey. Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...Colin

 

[redman]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

 

[Colin Dowling]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey. Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

 

[BigJim®]

I mentioned in a couple dynasty ranking threads that I'm a good deal higher on Campbell's dynasty value than others being ranked 20-30. There's just no way Washington could trade what it traded for a clipboard holder.

 

[redman]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

Remember the Dolphins paid a 2nd to acquire AJ Feeley two years ago. While that might arguably be regarded as an inflated value for a starting QB prospect, I'd also argue that Ramsey has much higher upside than Feeley ever did.

 

[SoloMatisse]

1st year playoff QBs in '06.......0 for 5. Brunell had a win in the playoffs this year. If Washington goes with the kid Campbell next year, they'll be a year closer possibly, but still not better off because they likely wont win any playoff games next year. It sucks to look at it that way, but reality. Move forward, step back.

 

[msommer]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

Remember the Dolphins paid a 2nd to acquire AJ Feeley two years ago. While that might arguably be regarded as an inflated value for a starting QB prospect, I'd also argue that Ramsey has much higher upside than Feeley ever did.

Feeley had just won four games straight and looked great doing it IIRC - Ramsey has spen the entire season (except one half of the first game) on the bench - and he was benched for poor performance.Now, I am not saying that Ramsey's upside is not higher than Feeleys - actually you'd hope so because Feeley sure did not amount to much. Just that Ramsey has been out of the limelight for awhile and may not be a sexy signing.

Personally I always thought that Spurrier did his best to destroy Ramsey. I hope wherever he goes he has a very good qb coach, a great O-Line and a system that plays to his strengths

 

[redman]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

Remember the Dolphins paid a 2nd to acquire AJ Feeley two years ago. While that might arguably be regarded as an inflated value for a starting QB prospect, I'd also argue that Ramsey has much higher upside than Feeley ever did.

Feeley had just won four games straight and looked great doing it IIRC - Ramsey has spen the entire season (except one half of the first game) on the bench - and he was benched for poor performance.Now, I am not saying that Ramsey's upside is not higher than Feeleys - actually you'd hope so because Feeley sure did not amount to much. Just that Ramsey has been out of the limelight for awhile and may not be a sexy signing.

Personally I always thought that Spurrier did his best to destroy Ramsey. I hope wherever he goes he has a very good qb coach, a great O-Line and a system that plays to his strengths

Ooh, four games! Sorry, man, but Feeley was no blue-chipper when the Dolphins acquired him. The trade was criticized, but only because people thought Feeley was an imposter and not because the Dolphins overpaid for what they thought they were getting. And Ramsey just appeared in relief in a critical game vs. the Giants and made plays to win the game, not to mention managed to throw more TD's than INT's in two of the worst offenses in recent memory (Spurrier's 2002-03 and Gibbs' 2004 offense).

Ironically, Gibbs' well-known penchant for going with veteran QB's over younger QB's may help preserve some of Ramsey's trade value. I said at the time in another thread that the complaints about Gibbs not giving Ramsey a chance will justify in some peoples' minds Ramsey's acquisition as a starting rather than a backup QB.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I'd expect Brunell to be the starter @ the beginning of next year, just to give Gibbs the time to get Campbell in some garbage time, maybe to play a game if Brunell gets injured, but I see Campbell as the starter before the season is over. Campbell is a VERY quick study as he had to learn 4 new offenses in Auburn. I didn't expect him to be a 1st rounder as I thought he would be underrated w/ new playbooks & the running game being the priority, but somebody on the 'Skins staff HAD to be an Auburn fan (also getting C.Rogers who is quietly turning into a stud also). Point is, Campbell's ready. Brunell will have to do everything he can to hold that job as long as possible. Dude better not get an ingrown toenail.

 

[houndirish]

1st year playoff QBs in '06.......0 for 5. Brunell had a win in the playoffs this year. If Washington goes with the kid Campbell next year, they'll be a year closer possibly, but still not better off because they likely wont win any playoff games next year. It sucks to look at it that way, but reality. Move forward, step back.

If the Skins go with Campbell as their starter they won't have to worry about how they'll fare as a playoff team since they won't be participating.I made this point in the NFC East next year thread. While the Redskins may have finished hotter than anyone else in the division, they're at the distinct disadvantage of having to break in a young QB, which WILL cost you some games. If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter I don't see how they avoid a last place finish in the division.

 

[dgreen]

If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter I don't see how they avoid a last place finish in the division.

If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter, that means he is better than Brunell. So, if they can make it with Brunell, they can make it with Campbell.There's always the possibility that Campbell is actually good. To see what Gibbs might do, we can look back at Mark Rypien. Rypien sat for two years before taking his first snap. He played well in his first year of action. He was a sixth-round pick. Campbell is a first-round pick. One would hope Campbell is ahead of a guy like Rypien when it comes to development, based on when they were drafted.

You can look at recent first round QBs that have played well in their second season in the league, some even leading their teams to the playoffs: Eli, Roth, Culpepper, Palmer, McNabb. (Yes, some have failed.)

I doubt Gibbs would ask Campbell to do much, just as he didn't ask Brunell to do much. No matter who the QB is, the approach will be great D and a strong ground game.

 

[houndirish]

I know Gibbs is saying Campbell could've played right now but let's face it. Young QB's, typically speaking, cost their teams games while learning the curve. Whether it's directly by making mistakes or indirectly by having to simplify the offense, making it easier to defend, as a general rule, teams starting rookies or 2nd year guys without starting experience tend to suffer. I really don't see how Campbell will be an exception. I'll agree that teams with strong defenses and a good running game can limit the damage but as competitive as the NFC East looks heading into next season, I don't see the Skins being in the mix if Campbell is the everyweek starter.

 

[dgreen]

I know Gibbs is saying Campbell could've played right now...

That's just Gibbs speak.Translation: "If Mark and Patrick went down, we would have no problem putting Jason in there. After all, he's our third QB. I believe in overcoming obstacles. Jason is supersmart and prepared well every week as if he is going to play. I can work with him. I'm not going to encourage my team to be down on themselves by saying I have no faith in my QB to lead us to victory. That would be really stupid. I believe in being positive and working hard and trying your best regardless of the situation."

 

[Marvelous]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

Remember the Dolphins paid a 2nd to acquire AJ Feeley two years ago. While that might arguably be regarded as an inflated value for a starting QB prospect, I'd also argue that Ramsey has much higher upside than Feeley ever did.

Feeley had just won four games straight and looked great doing it IIRC - Ramsey has spen the entire season (except one half of the first game) on the bench - and he was benched for poor performance.Now, I am not saying that Ramsey's upside is not higher than Feeleys - actually you'd hope so because Feeley sure did not amount to much. Just that Ramsey has been out of the limelight for awhile and may not be a sexy signing.

Personally I always thought that Spurrier did his best to destroy Ramsey. I hope wherever he goes he has a very good qb coach, a great O-Line and a system that plays to his strengths

Ooh, four games! Sorry, man, but Feeley was no blue-chipper when the Dolphins acquired him. The trade was criticized, but only because people thought Feeley was an imposter and not because the Dolphins overpaid for what they thought they were getting. And Ramsey just appeared in relief in a critical game vs. the Giants and made plays to win the game, not to mention managed to throw more TD's than INT's in two of the worst offenses in recent memory (Spurrier's 2002-03 and Gibbs' 2004 offense).

Ironically, Gibbs' well-known penchant for going with veteran QB's over younger QB's may help preserve some of Ramsey's trade value. I said at the time in another thread that the complaints about Gibbs not giving Ramsey a chance will justify in some peoples' minds Ramsey's acquisition as a starting rather than a backup QB.

The story I have heard (from WTEM): The Redskins went to Auburn to scout Carlos Rogers. They saw Jason Campbell there and simply fell in love with him. He became a player Gibbs had to have.

 

[Marvelous]

If I'm Terry Bradway, I call and offer the pick the Jets just sent me for Ramsey.  Get some depth/insurance for Penngington...

Colin

I think that's the general idea as to what the 'Skins will do with Ramsey, however I think they can get more than a 4th for him.Incidentally, here's the link to the video of the press conference.

Well, reasoning that Volek might be had for a 3rd, and it's likely that Collins, Brooks, Griese, Harrington and/or Garcia, Kitna, and probably a couple I've forgotten will be available, I don't know what the market will take for Ramsey

The Washington Post reported (speculated) Ramsey would go for a mid round draft pick. By the way, at lunch time, WTEM reported that Ramsey has asked for a trade and the Redskins have agreed to accomodate him.

 

[Marvelous]

If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter I don't see how they avoid a last place finish in the division.

If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter, that means he is better than Brunell. So, if they can make it with Brunell, they can make it with Campbell.There's always the possibility that Campbell is actually good. To see what Gibbs might do, we can look back at Mark Rypien. Rypien sat for two years before taking his first snap. He played well in his first year of action. He was a sixth-round pick. Campbell is a first-round pick. One would hope Campbell is ahead of a guy like Rypien when it comes to development, based on when they were drafted.

You can look at recent first round QBs that have played well in their second season in the league, some even leading their teams to the playoffs: Eli, Roth, Culpepper, Palmer, McNabb. (Yes, some have failed.)

I doubt Gibbs would ask Campbell to do much, just as he didn't ask Brunell to do much. No matter who the QB is, the approach will be great D and a strong ground game.

More than anyone other coach I have seen, Gibbs is very reluctant to hand over major responsibility to a youngster until he has earned it.Brunell is entrenched as the starter and that will not change in the off season. They have already announced that Ramsey has requested a trade and the Redskins will do it. So Gibbs is comfortable with Campbell as the #2 qb.

Based on Gibbs' history, he will stick with Brunell until he thinks Brunell can no longer to the job.

 

[rifkin]

Well I hope Campbell wins the job, because Brunell took this team about as far as he could and next year he'll be another year older and slower.The announcers the past couple of weeks were complaining about the lack of weapons on offense but IMHO Portis, Moss, and Cooley is enough. A defense can take away 2 of those, but 1 of those should be able to burn you if you focus on the other 2 - as long as you have a good QB.

 

[redman]

1st year playoff QBs in '06.......0 for 5.  Brunell had a win in the playoffs this year.  If Washington goes with the kid Campbell next year, they'll be a year closer possibly, but still not better off because they likely wont win any playoff games next year.  It sucks to look at it that way, but reality.  Move forward, step back.

If the Skins go with Campbell as their starter they won't have to worry about how they'll fare as a playoff team since they won't be participating.I made this point in the NFC East next year thread. While the Redskins may have finished hotter than anyone else in the division, they're at the distinct disadvantage of having to break in a young QB, which WILL cost you some games. If the Skins go with Campbell as the starter I don't see how they avoid a last place finish in the division.

This is overstating things a bit, but there's some truth to it. The NFC East is a vicious division to be in. 10-6 is going to be the division winner's record more often than not for the forseeable future IMHO. But for Philly's collapse due to injuries, that likely would have been the case again given how close the teams all play each other. The biggest danger with Campbell would be mistakes. That's Brunell's strongsuit at this point in his career. Gibbs is good at gameplanning around his QB's and that, plus the general run-first offensive philosophy and the stingy defense should insulate Campbell if/when he starts.

In addition, they aren't just going to stand pat on offense. They're going to make a major push for another WR opposite Moss. Names like Moulds, Wayne, KRob, Randle-El, Lloyd and others are being tossed out there. Again, these things will only help Campbell.

All in all, the 'Skins will have as good of a shot as any to win the division even if Campbell starts assuming he avoids mistakes. If not then all bets are off.

 

[jbz]

1st year playoff QBs in '06.......0 for 5. Brunell had a win in the playoffs this year. If Washington goes with the kid Campbell next year, they'll be a year closer possibly, but still not better off because they likely wont win any playoff games next year. It sucks to look at it that way, but reality. Move forward, step back.

Well, with this way of thinking, how would any QB get playoff experience? All QBs have to be a 1st year playoff QB at some point. Brady did fine when he was a 1st year playoff QB. So did Kurt Warner. It's not set in stone that a 1st year playoff QB will be a loss. Even if it is, that QB needs to get the playoff experience somehow.

 

[redman]

1st year playoff QBs in '06.......0 for 5.  Brunell had a win in the playoffs this year.  If Washington goes with the kid Campbell next year, they'll be a year closer possibly, but still not better off because they likely wont win any playoff games next year.  It sucks to look at it that way, but reality.  Move forward, step back.

Well, with this way of thinking, how would any QB get playoff experience? All QBs have to be a 1st year playoff QB at some point. Brady did fine when he was a 1st year playoff QB. So did Kurt Warner. It's not set in stone that a 1st year playoff QB will be a loss. Even if it is, that QB needs to get the playoff experience somehow.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, and of course it depends upon who exactly your QB is. As I said above, the risk given our division is that the 'Skins first year starter Campbell might not even enable them to make the playoffs if he makes as much as as a mistake that costs them even a single game, so close is the competition in the NFC East.

 

[jbz]

If Gibbs names him the starter, then I will have faith that he's ready. Kid has to get his feet wet sometime. Gibbs will play whoever's best, so I'm not too worried.

 

[redman]

If Gibbs names him the starter, then I will have faith that he's ready. Kid has to get his feet wet sometime.  Gibbs will play whoever's best, so I'm not too worried.

For whatever it's worth. Jay Schroeder's first season playing for Gibbs (QB rating = 73.8; Note: Theismann started most of the games that year until his infamous career ending injury):

+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| Year  TM |   G |  Comp   Att   PCT    YD   Y/A  TD INT |  Att  Yards  TD |+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| 1985 was |   9 |   112   209  53.6  1458   7.0   5   5 |    17    30   0 |

Mark Rypien's first season playing for Gibbs (QB rating = 85.2; Note: Doug Williams started most of the games that year):

+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| Year  TM |   G |  Comp   Att   PCT    YD   Y/A  TD INT |  Att  Yards  TD |+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+| 1988 was |   9 |   114   208  54.8  1730   8.3  18  13 |     9    31   1 |

Schroeder was drafted in the third round in 1984; Rypien was drafted in the sixth round in 1986.

 

[Bri]

After 04, I thought there was a shot he could play this year. Brunell, however, played far better as you know. Anyhow, yeah it's quite possible even likely he'll start next year at some point.

 

[redman]

After 04, I thought there was a shot he could play this year. Brunell, however, played far better as you know. Anyhow, yeah it's quite possible even likely he'll start next year at some point.

What's interesting to note is that neither Schroeder nor Rypien graduated into the starting role on "merit"; in both cases the incumbent starter (Theismann and Williams) became injured and they stepped in and took the job with their play.

 

[Marvelous]

After 04, I thought there was a shot he could play this year. Brunell, however, played far better as you know.  Anyhow, yeah it's quite possible even likely he'll start next year at some point.

What's interesting to note is that neither Schroeder nor Rypien graduated into the starting role on "merit"; in both cases the incumbent starter (Theismann and Williams) became injured and they stepped in and took the job with their play.

I don't recall the exact circumstances of when and how Rypien started playing. I remember Jay Schroeder was benched for poor play and then sulked on the sidelines. That was in 1987, and Doug Williams became the starter pretty late in the season and led them to a Super Bowl win.

 

[Gopher State]

If Campbell starts this would really lower the value of Moss :X

 

[fatness]

I'd expect Brunell to be the starter @ the beginning of next year, just to give Gibbs the time to get Campbell in some garbage time, maybe to play a game if Brunell gets injured, but I see Campbell as the starter before the season is over.

Campbell's evaluation will begin earlier than that, in training camp and pre-season games, and if he's planned as their #2 QB he will get plenty of game time. If Brunell is the starter at the beginning of the year, as I expect, and if Campbell is decent in preseason, I expect Campbell to take over the job before the year ends. If he doesn't replace Brunell due to lousy performace ( which we see when Brunell is hurt), I expect him to replace Brunell due to injury.

 

[jbz]

If Campbell starts this would really lower the value of Moss :X

Not necessarily. How many people thought Moss would have the year he did with Brunell running the show?

 

[Fumbleweed]

Well I hope Campbell wins the job, because Brunell took this team about as far as he could and next year he'll be another year older and slower.

Respectfully, I would disagree. Brunell could have taken this team further, I think, if they had any receiving options other than Moss & Cooley. The Redskins lacked a #2 WR worse than possibly any team in the league......it's something they MUST address in the offseason.

 

[BigJim®]

I'd expect Brunell to be the starter @ the beginning of next year, just to give Gibbs the time to get Campbell in some garbage time, maybe to play a game if Brunell gets injured, but I see Campbell as the starter before the season is over.

Campbell's evaluation will begin earlier than that, in training camp and pre-season games, and if he's planned as their #2 QB he will get plenty of game time. If Brunell is the starter at the beginning of the year, as I expect, and if Campbell is decent in preseason, I expect Campbell to take over the job before the year ends. If he doesn't replace Brunell due to lousy performace ( which we see when Brunell is hurt), I expect him to replace Brunell due to injury.

I agree. People should hear Gibbs' take on Campbell situation. It's very easy to skip ahead to minute 17:00 in the video, where he's asked about Campbell. He clearly says "Now, he needs to play, so we'll kind of get into that" and then laughed about how he joked to Campbell "take off your hat off and throw it away, it's time to go to work." There can't be doubt that he's being given a long hard look in preseason. What's also funny that he rambles about Campbell for a couple minutes and the very next question is on Ramsey's status and he gives some 20 second "we're taking time away and we'll see what happens" eulogy.