Jay Cutler (1 Viewer)

[Thom Yorke]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

The obvious question is, however: do these numbers mean that the Denver passing game, as a system, can't produce a top QB? Or is it because Jake Plummer and Brian Griese are marginal, at best, NFL quarterbacks?

 

[Banger]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

I'm curious. How did the Cowboys finish over the same period?I looked it up...'01 - 31'02 - 31'03 - 17'04 - 15'05 - 15'06 - 5'07 - 4Going back to '99 they were 24th, and '00 - 28th. You clearly could've made the same post in '06. The point is things change and the past doesn't predict the future. There are a number of reasons to think that they'll continue to improve their passing attack this year.

 

[moleculo]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

any reason you left out 1995-2000? Shanahan was HC of the Broncos for those years too...

 

[Banger]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

any reason you left out 1995-2000? Shanahan was HC of the Broncos for those years too...

 

[LHUCKS]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

I'm curious. How did the Cowboys finish over the same period?I looked it up...'01 - 31'02 - 31'03 - 17'04 - 15'05 - 15'06 - 5'07 - 4Going back to '99 they were 24th, and '00 - 28th. You clearly could've made the same post in '06. The point is things change and the past doesn't predict the future. There are a number of reasons to think that they'll continue to improve their passing attack this year.

T.O.Next question?

 

[LHUCKS]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

any reason you left out 1995-2000?

I obviously took the most recent years because they're the most relevant in terms of rule changes, environment etc.

 

[Raider Nation]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks
2007 14 2006 25 2005 15 2004 8 2003 18 2002 15 2001 14

any reason you left out 1995-2000?

I obviously took the most recent years because they're the most relevant in terms of rule changes, environment etc.

Uh huh.What's your excuse for taking only the "most recent years" in your thread which covers THE SHANAHAN ERA?

Might I suggest dishing this slop in the test forum? You'll probably get away with it there.

 

[Banger]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

I'm curious. How did the Cowboys finish over the same period?I looked it up...'01 - 31'02 - 31'03 - 17'04 - 15'05 - 15'06 - 5'07 - 4Going back to '99 they were 24th, and '00 - 28th. You clearly could've made the same post in '06. The point is things change and the past doesn't predict the future. There are a number of reasons to think that they'll continue to improve their passing attack this year.

T.O.Next question?

and a QB. Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.. Bottomline, IMO you have a thing against Cutler due to the Leinart "competition". To post those historical stats as they have some bearing on this year is weak.You didn't answer Moleculo's question...

 

[moleculo]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

any reason you left out 1995-2000? Shanahan was HC of the Broncos for those years too...

probably because they had a decent QB then..

or, because that would demonstrate a different point than LHUCKS is trying to trying to demonstrate. However, any rational observer should note that seven years of data is rather arbitrary...why not eight? nine? This is a clear case of cherry-picking, which, IMO, is equivalent to outright lying. Here's the data that LHUCKS has chosen to omit:

2000	3	61999	15	261998	8	51997	9	41996	13	51995	7	8

I'm not sure how LHUCKS defines "passing rank", but the first column is NFL passing yard rank and the second column in passing TD rank.

 

[LHUCKS]

Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.

Are you arguing that a deteriorating line and average RB help his value?Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

 

[moleculo]

The problem with Cutler, is that he plays in Denver's offense...an offense which rarely puts up top QB stats.

In 2004, Jake Plummer threw for over 4,000 yards and 27 TD's

Denver team passing ranks

2007	142006	252005	152004	 82003	182002	152001	14

any reason you left out 1995-2000?

I obviously took the most recent years because they're the most relevant in terms of rule changes, environment etc.

bull####.

 

[Banger]

Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.

Are you arguing that a deteriorating line and average RB help his value?Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

The Walker that they cut? The one who's tearing it up for the Raiders?My argument is that they aren't going to be able to lean on their rushing game, that their D is horrid and they will need to score each week to win.

 

[LHUCKS]

Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.

Are you arguing that a deteriorating line and average RB help his value?Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

The Walker that they cut?My argument is that they aren't going to be able to lean on their rushing game, that their D is horrid and they will need to score each week to win.

sure...just looking for how they "improved their passing attack big time."TIA

 

[moleculo]

Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.

Are you arguing that a deteriorating line and average RB help his value?Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

The Walker that they cut?My argument is that they aren't going to be able to lean on their rushing game, that their D is horrid and they will need to score each week to win.

JWalker 2007: 26/287/0Not exactly asking Royal to set the world on fire here.

 

[Banger]

Denver has also improved it's passing attack big time with talent at wr and TE position, terrible defense, deteriorating line, average RB talent at best, etc.

Are you arguing that a deteriorating line and average RB help his value?Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

The Walker that they cut?My argument is that they aren't going to be able to lean on their rushing game, that their D is horrid and they will need to score each week to win.

sure...just looking for how they "improved their passing attack big time."TIA

I should've said developing. Sheff was injured last year to start and he's a young guy, Marshall will be one of the best in the game this year and Cutler is one of the best young QB's in the game. They were just young last year but the pieces are in place.The TIA is unnecessary.Moleculo's question?

 

[Phase of the Game]

And you wonder why people despise you.

This is a fantasy football messageboard...are you confused about where you're at?

And you wonder why people despise you.

That's enough. He heard you the first time. Don't go there again when you come back.J

A timeout for that......WOW!

 

[LHUCKS]

I should've said developing.

Fair enough.

 

[Gr00vus]

I like Cutler and some of his targets quite a bit, but they've got an average at best group of running backs, and to me the offensive line is a big question mark.

If the defense really is giving up points (the way some have said) and teams don't have to respect the run, things could be tough for the kid this season as opposing Ds can sell out to stop the passing game.

I could live with Cutler at QB, but the price has to be right - I'd consider him at his current ADP in the mid 7th right now, but probably only if there's been an appreciable QB run. I'd like him much more a round or two later.

 

[TheRealDeFo]

Check this out ... Cutler is going to have a very good year. You are looking at a top 10 finish this year:

http://broncotalk.net/2008/08/nfl-meet-jay-cutler/

 

[Zaxxon]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy. Walker has started double digit games only twice in his 6 year career.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This is Jay Cutler's third year in the West Coast offense.

Go back and see how much improvement Brian Griese made in his third year in the West Coast offense. That was '00.

If Griese could do what he did in '00, imagine what Cutler could do this year.

 

[LHUCKS]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

 

[Banger]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

 

[LHUCKS]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

My argument is that he is likely to not be a top fantasy QB because of the system and talent surrounding him. I think he can be a below average starting fantasy QB like he was last year.I think a lot of the other QBs ranked around him have top 5 upside, Cutler IMHO does not.

 

[Banger]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

My argument is that he is likely to not be a top fantasy QB because of the system and talent surrounding him. I think he can be a below average starting fantasy QB like he was last year.I think a lot of the other QBs ranked around him have top 5 upside, Cutler IMHO does not.

but the system has produced top fantasy QB's, just not recently (due to the quality of QB's/surrounding talent, not the system). I think a top 10 TE and top 10 wr and decent/good running game are decent support but I guess we differ there.So the fact that Cutler was sick, a 1st year starter, had a young TE that was injured, 1st year starting stud wr and still finished QB11, you feel that's his peak?You don't think he has the ability to be a Big Ben type of QB? They weren't known much for their passing attacks were they?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

My argument is that he is likely to not be a top fantasy QB because of the system and talent surrounding him. I think he can be a below average starting fantasy QB like he was last year.I think a lot of the other QBs ranked around him have top 5 upside, Cutler IMHO does not.

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB? I'm not asking you that to try and set you up with some information I'm holding on Cutler, just want to know as we both may have different bars on what a below average fantasy QB is. Obviously there are different tiers, I think below average to me is probably someone outside the top 10.

 

[LHUCKS]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

My argument is that he is likely to not be a top fantasy QB because of the system and talent surrounding him. I think he can be a below average starting fantasy QB like he was last year.I think a lot of the other QBs ranked around him have top 5 upside, Cutler IMHO does not.

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB? I'm not asking you that to try and set you up with some information I'm holding on Cutler, just want to know as we both may have different bars on what a below average fantasy QB is. Obviously there are different tiers, I think below average to me is probably someone outside the top 10.

Well I have him ranked 12th for redraft-6 pt TDs...but I rank very differently than most...I put a lot of value on upside and that hurt Cutler in my rankings.

 

[LHUCKS]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

 

[Scooby1974]

Also, are you arguing that Eddie Royal is a huge improvement over Javon Walker?

Maybe not in terms of Las Vegas assaults but he certainly could fare better than Walker has in terms of playing games and staying healthy.

I obviously agree with that...ultimately my point is that his weapons are not a huge upgrade, if any upgrade at all.

is your argument that Cutler can't be a good fantasy QB because of the system he's in or the surrounding talent or both?

My argument is that he is likely to not be a top fantasy QB because of the system and talent surrounding him. I think he can be a below average starting fantasy QB like he was last year.I think a lot of the other QBs ranked around him have top 5 upside, Cutler IMHO does not.

but the system has produced top fantasy QB's, just not recently (due to the quality of QB's/surrounding talent, not the system). I think a top 10 TE and top 10 wr and decent/good running game are decent support but I guess we differ there.So the fact that Cutler was sick, a 1st year starter, had a young TE that was injured, 1st year starting stud wr and still finished QB11, you feel that's his peak?You don't think he has the ability to be a Big Ben type of QB? They weren't known much for their passing attacks were they?

Banger...Please don't confuse us with the facts. Certainly none of the factors you bring up here are relevant. Cutler has reached his ceiling and now it's about to fall in on him with Marshall out for 3 games...

 

[LHUCKS]

Cutler has reached his ceiling and now it's about to fall in on him with Marshall out for 3 games.

That's not an accurate synopsis of my argument.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

and compared to Leinart?

 

[LHUCKS]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

and compared to Leinart?

I have Leinart ranked 15th...and one of the biggest value plays in FF this year. FBG consensus has him at #23

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

and compared to Leinart?

I have Leinart ranked 15th...and one of the biggest value plays in FF this year. FBG consensus has him at #23

Dont pick with your heart there Hucks

 

[LHUCKS]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

and compared to Leinart?

I have Leinart ranked 15th...and one of the biggest value plays in FF this year. FBG consensus has him at #23

Dont pick with your heart there Hucks

Do you know where AZ finished as a team last year in passing?

 

[LHUCKS]

YR TEAM CMP ATT PYD Y/A FD PTD INT FANT PT

1 2007 NE 403 586 4859 8.29 243 50 9 1585.15

2 2007 DAL 342 531 4290 8.08 217 36 19 1295.50

3 2007 IND 355 550 4173 7.59 214 32 14 1266.15

4 2007 GB 383 578 4463 7.72 212 30 15 1230.65

5 2007 NO 441 653 4416 6.76 234 28 18 1193.30

6 2007 JAX 288 469 3495 7.45 182 28 8 1190.85

7 2007 SEA 371 589 4181 7.10 212 30 13 1178.15

8 2007 PIT 282 442 3390 7.67 178 34 14 1168.20

9 2007 ARI 357 591 4220 7.14 215 32 24 1167.90

10 2007 CLE 305 545 3865 7.09 194 29 20 1155.75

11 2007 PHI 350 577 4005 6.94 186 24 15 1128.15

12 2007 CIN 373 574 4133 7.20 214 26 20 1107.15

13 2007 HOU 346 529 3925 7.42 193 24 21 1064.85

14 2007 NYG 302 543 3376 6.22 168 23 20 1046.70

15 2007 DEN 326 515 3759 7.30 190 21 15 1041.45

16 2007 SD 281 471 3175 6.74 158 22 16 1026.15

17 2007 DET 367 587 4207 7.17 204 19 23 1020.15

18 2007 WAS 319 525 3622 6.90 192 18 11 1014.00

19 2007 TB 316 490 3579 7.30 165 18 8 1013.35

20 2007 MIN 248 430 2909 6.77 140 12 14 947.95

21 2007 ATL 335 555 3569 6.43 162 18 16 910.15

22 2007 CHI 326 567 3698 6.52 170 18 21 904.40

23 2007 STL 333 574 3561 6.20 193 19 28 888.85

24 2007 OAK 260 451 2894 6.42 134 17 20 873.20

25 2007 BAL 341 556 3308 5.95 176 13 14 868.90

26 2007 CAR 284 504 2927 5.81 145 19 17 857.05

27 2007 MIA 318 557 3321 5.96 163 12 16 850.75

28 2007 TEN 288 465 3078 6.62 172 9 17 849.60

29 2007 NYJ 310 511 3331 6.52 173 15 19 847.75

30 2007 KC 335 562 3527 6.28 172 17 20 839.55

31 2007 BUF 263 445 2843 6.39 141 12 14 769.35

32 2007 SF 274 514 2681 5.22 141 15 18 741.45

 

[Scooby1974]

Do you remember who the QB was for Arizona last year that led them to a #9 ranking?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

What is your definition of or cutoff line for below average fantasy QB?

Obviously it depends on VBD, but I have him ranked 12th right now in redraft 6pt passing TD leagues.

and compared to Leinart?

I have Leinart ranked 15th...and one of the biggest value plays in FF this year. FBG consensus has him at #23

Dont pick with your heart there Hucks

Do you know where AZ finished as a team last year in passing?

LOL do you remember who was QB that put them to that lofty number?

 

[Moe Green]

 

[-jb-]

Wow, this started out as a great thread.

Then

 

[a_troll00]

I'm ready to call this thread a brilliant troll... but this is LHUCKS we're dealing with.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

To me, you could almost make the analogy to Jeff George when it comes to Cutler, but a good head to go with it.His arm is remarkable to say the least. He can make throws that very few can in the NFL.

Cutler's arm is strong, but let's not go nuts with the Jeff George comparison.George had a legendary cannon. Many scouts to this day said he put on the best "7 on 7" displays they've ever seen.Out of current players, only JaMarcus Russell is in the same class, and Favre used to be.

I watched Jeff George and his "legendary" arm. Yes, he could throw it 70 yards, so could Favre, so could Elway, so could Aaron Brooks, Culpepper, and Michael Vick. They have QB cometitions every year before the probowl and in the summer, and you can watch how far they throw. In fact, of the above, Elway could throw it the furthest at 78 yards.Cutler is a different story, in college at Vanderbilt, there is a nice video, he threw the ball 80 yards through the air to a WR. 80 yards in the air. If the WR would have let it go, it may have travelled 85 yards or so.Although Cutler has not been in any QB competitions yet, he will be soon enough, then we can get accurate numbers on his distance. At the combine, he benched 225 pounds twenty six times. No other QB even tried.Cutler has arm strength and a quick release, with lots of velocity on the ball. Go to YouTube and search for Cutler to Walker, he had a 67 yard pass to Javon Walker that travelled from his 33 yard line to about 2 yards deep into the endzone into Javon's hands, in a fraction of a second. 67 yards is not record-breaking, but the speed, velocity and accuracy was unbelievable. He didn't heave it up and float it downfield. He rocketed downfield. That was the fastest a ball travelled 67 yards that the NFL has seen since Elway himself, when he first joined the league.Mel Kiper once said, "If God wanted to create a quarterback, he'd make John Elway."Folks, the arm, brain, and legs on Cutler are Elway-esque and eerily reminiscent of another 6 foot 3 Qb that could run, pass, and had a huge arm.As for Jamarcus Russell, We'll see what he can do. I watched him in college throw some deep 70-80 yard passes, but they were rainbows and floated downfield. Little velocity. We'll have to wait and see how he develops. He could be the biggest arm the NFL has ever seen, if he develops properly. But for now, I would go with Cutler if you wanted a live, big, zip arm.Cutler can squeeze the ball into places, between defenders unlike anyone else. And with such speed it's pretty amazing. Go to youtube or nfl.com and look at his highlights, your mouth will be gaping open. Watch the Chicago game, the Steelers game, the Colts game. Amazing passes. He can throw across his body with immense velocity and can throw backside while scrambling like it was nothing. He is an extremely exciting young QB.

I love how this good post got lost in all the LHUCKS v Beaver crap. Cutler is a stud and Shanny's offense is hit or miss. It's tough to replace a legend like Elway. Now they might have found their man. I'd love to revisit this topic at the end of the year. For now only time will tell. And please, Jamarcus or Cutler isn't even close.