Otis
Footballguy
He's done it in real games before. He can do it again.
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Jerome Harrison (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LawFitz
- Start date
ponchsox
Footballguy
Jonathan Dwyer broke a big run against Carolina and Da'Rel Scott broke a 65 yarder against the Patriots. Does that make them instant starters now too?
The point is, until now we were debating whether or not Harrison is even Best's backup. Now I think it's clear he is ahead of Brown and could be pushing Morris, who did very well last year but is still out with a broken hand.
Not only that, but Best's 3.2 ypc last year and his 8 carries for 13 yards in this year's preseason games doesn't at all suggest he deserves 70% of the carries. Detroit was planning a 50/50 split prior to LeShoure getting injured and it doesn't look like that will change much with harrison.
Not sure that comparison is apt. Harrison has been effective when given the ball in regular season games, neither of those guys ever have. It's not like Jerome Harrison has never had any success, he was pretty good a couple of years ago for Cleveland when given a shot. Guys like Dwyer and Scott have never done a thing in a real game yet, so I don't think it's a fair comparison to make.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
The 286 yards Harrison had vs the Chiefs in 2009 was a fluke and everyone knows it. The next week he ran for 148 vs the Raiders in week 16....the RAIDERS. Week 17 was 127 vs a Jags team that had nothing to play for.
The notion that Harrison will shoulder the load for the Lions if Best goes down based on these 3 games (his most notable) is ridiculous. Best and LeShoure would've been 50/50 split, but since LeShoure > Harrison, the Lions will give the better player more touches.
Maybe I should've rephrased the 70/30 split as total touches, runs and receptions.
Should Best go down due to injury, Harrison will split with the #3 back.
The notion that Harrison will shoulder the load for the Lions if Best goes down based on these 3 games (his most notable) is ridiculous. Best and LeShoure would've been 50/50 split, but since LeShoure > Harrison, the Lions will give the better player more touches.
Maybe I should've rephrased the 70/30 split as total touches, runs and receptions.
Should Best go down due to injury, Harrison will split with the #3 back.
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Harrison might get a few carries while Best is healthy. He might be #3 to Morris. He could be cut after 3 weeks for all I know. One thing I do certainly know-- you don't fluke your way into a 286 yards rushing game in the NFL.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
Ok compare it to one of the best in the league, Adrian Peterson. He hit 296 vs the Chargers in his ROOKIE year. Hasn't came close since, was it a fluke, did he get lucky? It was a combination of luck and natural skill.Harrison's career game was all luck since his talent is NOWHERE near AP.
I think Harrison is a great Handcuff who is being overlooked. Jennings, Tate, to a lesser extent Hardesty are getting the press but getting Harrison in the end game of draft could pay dividends for sure. Best has been injury prone for awhile, college included and when he did come back last year (Yeah I know turf toe) he looked awful. I appreciate the good topic Lawfitz.
First...read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoningThen go search for the very easy to find video highlights from the game. It is quite apparent Harrison has talent running the ball. Sure, not ADP talent, but there are only a few in the game with his talent. It is also clear from several coaching staff decisions that there is something in Harrison that coaches don't feel he should be the starter or have a ton of carries. However, if he is forced into that roll--he has produced.
Oh... you were serious? I thought for sure that was sarcasm.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Did Jerome Harrison crap in your Cheerios?
ProBowler88
Footballguy
I don't need wikipedia to help me analyze and decide if a RB is talented or lucky but thanks. And if the coaches for either Cleveland or Philly thought he was that good (any team would want a RB that excels once he is "forced" into that role as you put it) then they wouldn't have released him.
Bottom line is that he is an average RB that got lucky for one game, and due to its magnitude (286 yards) he is viewed as a more talented back, but he just isn't.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
Just putting his 70+ yards from this meaningless preseason game into perspective.
It's not meaningless if it establishes that Harrison will be ahead of Brown and I think it does that. Now the only remaining factor is Morris, who again has not returned from his broken hand. I agree Harrison is not a better option than Best, but if Best goes down, he may make a very valuable handcuff if he beats out Morris.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
The thread was started before week 4 preseason games.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
He already beat out Morris but if Best goes down, both Morris and Harrison will split carries so Harrison isn't as big of a handcuff as people think. That is the point I'm trying to get across.Some people here like to take his 3 games from Cleveland 2 years ago and inflate his value.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He hasn't beaten out Morris or Brown for anything yet.
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
Morris is doing a fine job on his own.
Kind of like T. Hightower this year. P. Holmes or dozens of other cases. This is absurd. But makes sense coming from someone who hasn't won since 2007.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
Hightower was only released by one team. Holmes was released because Baltimore drafted Jamal Lewis and he became expendable, he wasn't released because he wasn't talented.Harrison has been passed by 2 teams already, the Lions signed him out of desperation. If you're implying Harrison is the next Priest Holmes then by all means draft him.
And I haven't updated anything on my profile in 4 years, no one cares about my league. Just the fact that you're taking a personal shot at me tells me you know I'm right.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
Hightower was only released by one team. Holmes was released because Baltimore drafted Jamal Lewis and he became expendable, he wasn't released because he wasn't talented.Harrison has been passed by 2 teams already, the Lions signed him out of desperation. If you're implying Harrison is the next Priest Holmes then by all means draft him.
And I haven't updated anything on my profile in 4 years, no one cares about my league. Just the fact that you're taking a personal shot at me tells me you know I'm right.
Your rebuttal leaves much to be desired. As does your attention to your profile.The unintentional comedy is top notch though.
Don't people get we are talking about a guy who is going undrafted in most leagues. If he had a perfect resume he would be drafted a lot sonner. When Harrison plays he produces, and he has a lot more than just two great games in his past, more like 6 or 7. And if it was so easy to pull off a 286 yard game just because it was against a weak team playing for nothing, then every NFL back should have done it because they all play in those type of games.
Obviously Harrison has some attitude issues that coaches don't seem to love, but that is why he is a flyer....but a flyer with Huge upside, and I am not even sure it will take an injury to Best for Harrison to be a playable back.
Obviously Harrison has some attitude issues that coaches don't seem to love, but that is why he is a flyer....but a flyer with Huge upside, and I am not even sure it will take an injury to Best for Harrison to be a playable back.
Otis
Footballguy
I love those back-to-back-to-back flukes.
The 148 yard game vs Oakland, he did it over 39 carries with 3.8 ypcThe 127 yard game vs Jacksonv. he did it over 33 carries with 3.8 ypcLet's be honest, it's not like he wasn't given the ball enough to produce 100+ yard games after the KC games. Even after that, the team didn't feel comfortable giving him the pill. Make any excuse you want, he simply wasn't that effective to command touches the next year when it mattered.
Not all YPC stats are the same.Cleveland had 208 yards passing COMBINED in those two games. Both defenses had 9 in the box throughout the game, and they still ran it effectively and won. But coaches seem to discount him, which is why I still have him ranked pretty low. But he is still talented and worth a late draft pick.
He has a career 4.8 yards per carry. You give the guy a ball 39 times, you think maybe the defense might be staking the line of scrimmage a bit? On the plus side, he still has about 3 prime years left and he has very little wear and is still explosive and runs with good power. His resume is better tha Best's or any of the other RB's on the team. He is the best low risk/high reward guy out there.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Just because Morris has been hurt, doesn't mean he has lost his spot he earned last regular season.
SlevinKelevra
Footballguy
dapunisher
Footballguy
Thank you Otis. I thought I was the only one who found that funny.
I remember looking at Jerome Harrison's ranking on Pro Football Focus (back when it was free) after his run of big games in 2009. Surpisingly, he was rated as a below average back even after his 3 game yardage explosion. If I remember correctly, he was slightly above average running the ball, but he was a horrible pass blocker. If someone has a subscription, maybe they could check out the numbers. There is a reason he was let go by Cleveland, Philadelphia, and not signed by anybody this year until Detroit became desperate for a body.
Despite that, I drafted him late in my league even though I don't own Best. He does have some talent running the ball. If he gets the chance, he could put up some decent numbers.
Despite that, I drafted him late in my league even though I don't own Best. He does have some talent running the ball. If he gets the chance, he could put up some decent numbers.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
If you look again I clearly said the 286 game was a fluke, not the last 2. Getting 148 vs the 2009 Raiders isn't something to hang your hat on. And the 127 in week 17 was nothing special.Looks like you need to get your hawk eyes checked.
ProBowler88
Footballguy
I understand Harrison helped a lot of people win their league 2 years ago, and because of that they will forever like this guy. Seems too many people in here use those 3 games and give Harrison more value than he really has.
Coming from someone who has watched him during practice 4 different times this summer, I can tell you that Harrison is a flat out terrible blocker in passing downs. Should Best get injured, Harrison will NOT be on the field enough to warrant him a high risk high reward player.
As a Lions fan I wish I was wrong here about Harrison, but he just will not be as good as the majority of people in there think.
Coming from someone who has watched him during practice 4 different times this summer, I can tell you that Harrison is a flat out terrible blocker in passing downs. Should Best get injured, Harrison will NOT be on the field enough to warrant him a high risk high reward player.
As a Lions fan I wish I was wrong here about Harrison, but he just will not be as good as the majority of people in there think.
I'd really like to hear some of the staff's take on Harrison. I know they like to steer away from predicting injuries, but I think this is something important. If Detroit keeps the momentum going into the season and Stafford can stay healthy, best can be one of those guys that helps win playoff games if something does happen to Best (which is a high probability).
If they are putting up points, they're going to run the ball a lot, and 30% of these carries may still be a decent amount - at least flex worthy in deeper leagues.
If they are putting up points, they're going to run the ball a lot, and 30% of these carries may still be a decent amount - at least flex worthy in deeper leagues.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
What value does he have? From a draft pick perspective, he costs close to nothing. He's a last pick of a draft. He's a waiver wire pick if he wasn't drafted. His upside-to-price ratio is excellent. Expectations are super low, upside potential is excellent. If it doesn't work out, cut him and pick up guys like Vereen, Ridley, Dixon, etc. The sharks try to get the next Hillis before he arrives. Those who miss out complain on message boards.
sho nuff
Footballguy
The perspective is this...he is the #2 back on his team.The #1 back has a history of injuries.The offense should be pretty solid this year.Making him a topic of interest.I don't think anyone is counting on him to carry their team, but as a flyer he makes a solid guy to have if Best goes down.
OK .. but what do you see the split as between Harrison/Morris if Best goes down? You've already gone on record admitting that "Harrison has beaten Morris to become the backup RB" although I don't think that's necessarily the case.Last year, after Morris got worked in when Best got multiple turf toe injuries, there were about 132 touches between them over 6 shared games (22 touches/game). It worked out to be around 70/30 Morris/Best (16 touches/game for Morris). Morris was pretty productive during that period with 16 touches/game in the Stafford-less offense, averaging 61 yards and .5 TDs/game (around 1000/8 extended to season which I guess would be decent RB2 stats).So I guess the question is how you think ~22 touches would be divied up between Harrison and Morris ... whenever Morris is able to play again. Setting Morris aside, I think based on preseason performance, Harrison/Brown would be a 70/30 split - making Harrison a valuable RB2-type handcuff in the Stafford-led offense. So Morris is kind of a wild card here and Harrison needs to be reevaluated when Morris comes back. But until Morris comes back, I think it's a worthwhile idea to handcuff Harrison over other RB5 flier types like McGahee, etc. that are not handcuffs for your team.
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Touchdown There
Footballguy
Good post. I am wondering why so many posters are being outspoken and harsh towards Jerome Harrison. I had to ask myself, "who loses if Jerome Harrison wins"?
RedskinsFan
Footballguy
"Jerome Harrison carried the ball six times for just eight yards in the Lions' preseason opener on Friday.
Harrison entered the game in the second quarter after starter Jahvid Best took the ball four times for 12 yards. Mike Bell got the third crack at carries, notching just five yards on his five attempts. The Detroit Free Press labeled both backup runners "unimpressive," and called the Lions' running game a "downer." It's a bad start for Harrison, but he remains likely to begin the season as Best's primary backup and handcuff in fantasy leagues. Aug 13 - 12:39 PM
Source: Detroit Free Press"
Why are people giving a crap about Javid Bests backup?
I don't get this.
I get that Best is injury prone but he's not impressed me at all except for his start of last season
As far as targeting handcuffs go I can see 15 other teams RB's backups that seem more more interesting to me then any of these guys
This reminds me of the talk about James Davis for us last year...turned out to be all smoke with no substance
Harrison entered the game in the second quarter after starter Jahvid Best took the ball four times for 12 yards. Mike Bell got the third crack at carries, notching just five yards on his five attempts. The Detroit Free Press labeled both backup runners "unimpressive," and called the Lions' running game a "downer." It's a bad start for Harrison, but he remains likely to begin the season as Best's primary backup and handcuff in fantasy leagues. Aug 13 - 12:39 PM
Source: Detroit Free Press"
Why are people giving a crap about Javid Bests backup?
I don't get this.
I get that Best is injury prone but he's not impressed me at all except for his start of last season
As far as targeting handcuffs go I can see 15 other teams RB's backups that seem more more interesting to me then any of these guys
This reminds me of the talk about James Davis for us last year...turned out to be all smoke with no substance
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Wouldn't "injury prone" and "not impressed me at all" be reasons to care about the backup?
James Davis, he of the unimpressive 19 total career carries?
Again, because last year when Best went down or was limited (I'll use week 11 on), Best's backup, Morris - who I think we can say is a league-average RB-, averaged 65 yards and .7 TDs/game, which are valuable RB2 stats. If we can pinpoint a clear backup for Best, that's a potentially valuable handcuff.
