Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation

[Billy Bats]

PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here. I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.2) Sandusky and JoePa are clearly good friends.3) Given this, and the potential conflict of interest that could've arisen given their friendship, JoePa reported this to the AD, which was likley the outlined course of action. 4) The problem was that despite reporting this, Curley didnt' do anything about it. Now the negatives for JoePa 1) At what point did the graphic description given by McQueary become "horsing around?" If JoePa was the one who made that restatement, that's very bad.2) You'd think he would've followed up, but admittedly there was no legal obligation to do so. Further, perhaps he did...I'm not saying that taking the "It's been dealt with" response is right, but at what point do you step out of what is a sticky situation?I think that while a lot of this finger pointing at JoePa is certainly understandable, if it WASN'T Paterno in question, this would be 100% about Sandusky, and possibly Curley, etc. In reality, the non-Paterno headline would've read, "Former DC accused of child molestation." Because in reality he had no professional link to Paterno at the time. But because America loves witch hunts and tearing down idols, Joe Pa inevitably gets pulled in. It's just a crappy crappy situation. I personally (and as a PSU alum) hope that Sandusky's...I can't even think of how I'd describe how horrid this is or think of a word for it, so I'll just use "actions," bring down the JoePa legacy, because how he handled this situation shouldn't define his legacy.

What I think was going on was that everyone involved was trying to protect the University and more importantly Paterno. After Paterno went to Curley, he may have told Paterno "don't worry about this, we'll take care of it it's out of your hands now". Therefore keeping Paterno shielded from it, and trying to wrongly sweep it under the rug. The most disgusting thing about the whole situation was that the entire staff, Paterno inlcuded, were enablers for a sexual predator. And that's disheartening after seemingly knowing the kind of person the world thought Paterno was. He, and the University, let a sexual predator run rampant on their grounds, and they should all be held accountable.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

...I freely admit to being a fan of Paterno; he's always been a hero of mine so perhaps that colors my thinking....

Even if we cut Paterno every break here he most certainly failed in how he prepared the one student that spent almost ten years in how to handle such an incident.

 

[timschochet]

"Listen, jerry sandusky is a great guy, you are the nonly one who has ever said anything bad about him, and you made up a ludicrous story about how he committed rape. This guy is my friend ya know. So, wanna be an assistant coach?"

Yeah, this part really doesn't pass the smell test. I still would like to hear Paterno explain all of this, but I'm getting a very bad feeling, I admit.

 

[Chase Stuart]

That this is a lesser story than the UM/OSU "scandals" shows were we are as a nation. The UM story was front page #### on Yahoo and ESPN.com for two straight weeks.

This isn't a juicy sports story. This is a sickening human rights story. Not really ESPN's sort of story. If this was a major sports star, maybe, but 99% of ESPN viewers have no clue who Jerry Sandusky is. This isn't Michael Vick. It's a huge story being covered by every outlet. Just not a huge sports story.

 

[tikitime]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

Tim, again, this was not an isolated incident. There had been at least one prior investigation. And yet everyone pretended that it was perfectly fine that this guy kept hanging out with young boys. Use your head here.

Do you have one shred of evidence that JoePa knew of something MORE after this initial inclident per Tim's example? I'm not ruling it out, and there was a clear pattern of behavior, but who knew what is very unclear to me to jump on top of JoePa.

 

[Walton Goggins]

What's scary about this whole situation is that it's pretty clear if you are running a big time college sports program pretty much any crime can be committed and you can keep it hush hush for many years. I assume that the coaches on up are used to so much power for so many years in their little bubble that when sexual abuse of children is brought to their attention, instead of being a normal human being and notify the cops, you instead think damage control and keep it quiet and lie and protect YOUR image and legacy.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's a horrible story. Words can't express how you feel for the victims.

It would be nice if somehow, this helped to prevent further abuses across the country. Sandusky thought he was untouchable, and it appears like a lot of the PSU brass thought that protecting themselves was the most important thing in the world. Which is sad, for an institution like Penn State.

 

[CrossEyed]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

Tim, again, this was not an isolated incident. There had been at least one prior investigation. And yet everyone pretended that it was perfectly fine that this guy kept hanging out with young boys. Use your head here.

Do you have one shred of evidence that JoePa knew of something MORE after this initial inclident per Tim's example? I'm not ruling it out, and there was a clear pattern of behavior, but who knew what is very unclear to me to jump on top of JoePa.

Did you read the 23 page Grand Jury report? If not, read it and then let me know what you think.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Has anyone asked this?All I hear is how Paterno and Sandusky were such "good" friends. If they were such "good" friends, why wouldn't Paterno confront Sandusky directly? Wouldn't you confront a "good" friend in a situation like this? Even if it just to kick his ###.No one can say that Paterno couldn't have Sundusky's belongings packed up and set on the curb, and had the locks changed, and had security kick his ### out or not let him in, even if he wasn't a Paterno assistant. It would have taken one phone call.I was feeling sorry for Paterno's situation until I started thinking about it a little more.

It sounds like their relationship may have been strained once Joe told him that he would not be the successor. Now, did Joe make that decision because he knew of Jerry's activitiy? I guess that is the real question here. Not whether Joe did the right thing in 2002, as I think if that was the only time he heard of anything of that nature and given their relationship at the time (non-coach etc.) that he did what he should have by reporting to the AD. However, if Joe knew of his longterm pattern of abuse, well then that is something entirely different. I haven't heard that yet though.

 

[Truman]

Where is this "horsing around" term coming from? That is what people are saying the exact quote from Joe to Curly was? First, if McQueary didn't go into graphic detail to Joe (and apparently that is what the DA believes as well otherwise Joe would be charged with perjury as well) then Joe may have used that term to mean doing something inappropriate sexually. That's a term I have heard my 80 year old grandfather use on several occasions when talking about people having sex. Secondly, even if "horsing around" is the only thing Joe said to Curly (which I do not believe is the case) Curly still interviewed McQueary, during which conversation I assume McQueary told the full account of what he saw. It then was on Curly to take action.

'Horsing around' is the term Curley claims McQuery used when they interviewed him 10 days after he reported the incident. McQuery told the grand jury he provided the AD a full description of what occurred. The grand jury found Curley's testimony so convincing they charged him with perjury.Joe did all that was required of him under the law, nothing more, nothing less. He claims he didn't know the details of this incident and didn't know about any of the others. Because he was testifying against Curley and Schultz no one asked him exactly what McQuery told him and details of that conversation are nowhere in the grand jury report. There is no evidence Joe is lying and the prosecutors didn't go after him in any case. We will wait and see what comes out in the trial, but at this point, it seems like Joe is full of ####.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

That this is a lesser story than the UM/OSU "scandals" shows were we are as a nation. The UM story was front page #### on Yahoo and ESPN.com for two straight weeks.

this has crossed over from being just a sports story. it gets play on national network news.was lead story in the Chicago Tribune today.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

Tim, again, this was not an isolated incident. There had been at least one prior investigation. And yet everyone pretended that it was perfectly fine that this guy kept hanging out with young boys. Use your head here.

Do you have one shred of evidence that JoePa knew of something MORE after this initial inclident per Tim's example? I'm not ruling it out, and there was a clear pattern of behavior, but who knew what is very unclear to me to jump on top of JoePa.

Scroll up and read the two postings I put on this thread. Here's a snippet

Of the child sexual assault charges against former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky, the fact that stands out most is that Joe Paterno, Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were aware of incidents as early as 2002. Curley testified to the grand jury that he "advised Sandusky that he was prohibited from bringing youth onto the Penn State campus from that point forward." Seven years later, in the summer of 2009, Sandusky was still hosting overnight camps for children as young as 9 at other Penn State schools.

 

[Chase Stuart]

What's scary about this whole situation is that it's pretty clear if you are running a big time college sports program pretty much any crime can be committed and you can keep it hush hush for many years. I assume that the coaches on up are used to so much power for so many years in their little bubble that when sexual abuse of children is brought to their attention, instead of being a normal human being and notify the cops, you instead think damage control and keep it quiet and lie and protect YOUR image and legacy.

Lots of people would be quick to say "SEC! SEC!" if this was one of their programs.That's the shocking thing here. There was no program bigger and cleaner than Penn State's. If you had to put your faith in one major football institution doing the right thing during a scandal, PSU would probably be the #1 choice by a majority of folks.Paterno may be the least culpable of all the major players here -- well behind Sandusky and perhaps behind Curley and even Spanier -- but he's the one with the pristine reputation. I expected a lot more from him.

 

[B-Deep]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

Tim, again, this was not an isolated incident. There had been at least one prior investigation. And yet everyone pretended that it was perfectly fine that this guy kept hanging out with young boys. Use your head here.

Do you have one shred of evidence that JoePa knew of something MORE after this initial inclident per Tim's example? I'm not ruling it out, and there was a clear pattern of behavior, but who knew what is very unclear to me to jump on top of JoePa.

if he thought the GA was lying about child molestation why would he make him an assistant coach?[a few good men]why the two orders[/a few good men]either sandusky did nothing and this guy is a liar, not only that but a filthy enough liar to make up a story about shower rape, or sandusky raped a kidif the GA is a liar send him packing, if not call the cops, make sure the AD calls the cops, get the guy out of penn state, do SOMETHING other than the minimum required by law

 

[PIK95]

PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here.

I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.

1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.

2) Sandusky and JoePa are clearly good friends.

3) Given this, and the potential conflict of interest that could've arisen given their friendship, JoePa reported this to the AD, which was likley the outlined course of action.

4) The problem was that despite reporting this, Curley didnt' do anything about it.

Now the negatives for JoePa

1) At what point did the graphic description given by McQueary become "horsing around?" If JoePa was the one who made that restatement, that's very bad.

2) You'd think he would've followed up, but admittedly there was no legal obligation to do so. Further, perhaps he did...I'm not saying that taking the "It's been dealt with" response is right, but at what point do you step out of what is a sticky situation?

I think that while a lot of this finger pointing at JoePa is certainly understandable, if it WASN'T Paterno in question, this would be 100% about Sandusky, and possibly Curley, etc. In reality, the non-Paterno headline would've read, "Former DC accused of child molestation." Because in reality he had no professional link to Paterno at the time. But because America loves witch hunts and tearing down idols, Joe Pa inevitably gets pulled in.

It's just a crappy crappy situation. I personally (and as a PSU alum) hope that Sandusky's...I can't even think of how I'd describe how horrid this is or think of a word for it, so I'll just use "actions," bring down the JoePa legacy, because how he handled this situation shouldn't define his legacy.

What I think was going on was that everyone involved was trying to protect the University and more importantly Paterno. After Paterno went to Curley, he may have told Paterno "don't worry about this, we'll take care of it it's out of your hands now". Therefore keeping Paterno shielded from it, and trying to wrongly sweep it under the rug. The most disgusting thing about the whole situation was that the entire staff, Paterno inlcuded, were enablers for a sexual predator. And that's disheartening after seemingly knowing the kind of person the world thought Paterno was. He, and the University, let a sexual predator run rampant on their grounds, and they should all be held accountable.

 

[CrossEyed]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

Tim, again, this was not an isolated incident. There had been at least one prior investigation. And yet everyone pretended that it was perfectly fine that this guy kept hanging out with young boys. Use your head here.

Do you have one shred of evidence that JoePa knew of something MORE after this initial inclident per Tim's example? I'm not ruling it out, and there was a clear pattern of behavior, but who knew what is very unclear to me to jump on top of JoePa.

if he thought the GA was lying about child molestation why would he make him an assistant coach?[a few good men]

why the two orders[/a few good men]

either sandusky did nothing and this guy is a liar, not only that but a filthy enough liar to make up a story about shower rape, or sandusky raped a kid

if the GA is a liar send him packing, if not call the cops, make sure the AD calls the cops, get the guy out of penn state, do SOMETHING other than the minimum required by law

I was thinking about the end of that movie while reading about this mess.

What did that mean?

Hal? What did that mean?

Colonel Jessep said he ordered the Code Red. What did we do wrong?

- It's not that simple.

We did nothing wrong!

- Yeah, we did. We're supposed to fight for people who can't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.

 

[comfortably numb]

I recently dealt with an issue at my workplace where a worker of mine was my managers friend.

Everything i told him about his friend was written off, turned away, and when it got ugly and dealt with issues of race, my boss still didn't want to believe some things. Worker is now fired, and even that had to come from above my manager.

I can see JoePa not wanting to believe somethings and wanting to stick up for a friend, but this smells like he knew of these issues which are very serious and detrimental to kids, and did enough to "wash his hands".

His hands may be clean in regards to him reporting an incident but his heart is very dirty.

There comes a point in your life when you have to do what is right as a human, forgetting procedures, proper protocol etc...

I hope the penalties are very strong.

People in positions to care or support other people who then take advantage of said people should have their penalties be even harsher.

 

[timschochet]

if he thought the GA was lying about child molestation why would he make him an assistant coach?

This really is the key question isn't it? To be honest, I didn't really consider it when I asked my theoretical earlier. No matter how much I try to come up reasons as to how Paterno COULD be innocent of wrongdoing, it's just not plausible that he would hire a guy who lied about Sandusky being involved in child molestation.

 

[shake zula]

That this is a lesser story than the UM/OSU "scandals" shows were we are as a nation. The UM story was front page #### on Yahoo and ESPN.com for two straight weeks.

I haven't seen one site where it's not one of the lead stories.

Elite Manning is lead on ESPN. Just feels light on the coverage. When Tressell resigned it was the main story on ESPN.com for days. Obviously we are in the middle of the NFL season but to me this is one of the biggest stories to rock the NCAA in the last 25 years, arguably ever.

 

[Smack Tripper]

PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here. I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.2) Sandusky and JoePa are clearly good friends.3) Given this, and the potential conflict of interest that could've arisen given their friendship, JoePa reported this to the AD, which was likley the outlined course of action. 4) The problem was that despite reporting this, Curley didnt' do anything about it. Now the negatives for JoePa 1) At what point did the graphic description given by McQueary become "horsing around?" If JoePa was the one who made that restatement, that's very bad.2) You'd think he would've followed up, but admittedly there was no legal obligation to do so. Further, perhaps he did...I'm not saying that taking the "It's been dealt with" response is right, but at what point do you step out of what is a sticky situation?I think that while a lot of this finger pointing at JoePa is certainly understandable, if it WASN'T Paterno in question, this would be 100% about Sandusky, and possibly Curley, etc. In reality, the non-Paterno headline would've read, "Former DC accused of child molestation." Because in reality he had no professional link to Paterno at the time. But because America loves witch hunts and tearing down idols, Joe Pa inevitably gets pulled in. It's just a crappy crappy situation. I personally (and as a PSU alum) hope that Sandusky's...I can't even think of how I'd describe how horrid this is or think of a word for it, so I'll just use "actions," bring down the JoePa legacy, because how he handled this situation shouldn't define his legacy.

I appreciate your posting and your perspective. First an inconsequential question before more substantive ones, why is it called second mile? Did you have any dealings with Sandusky? Did you have any feelings about him or were there any questions about him? My experience is that this sort of thing doesn't happen in a vacuum. There is at minimal a gallows whisper about the person and then your stomach turns when your joking turns real.Lastly, with all due respect, I can see why you'd call it a witch hunt, but in my mind, it simply isn't for the mere fact Joe was in a position of power here. I'm sure he has the governor of PA, the State Police chief and the PA DA all waiting to kiss his ring when they take THEIR job. I don't think you can call it a witch hunt. What you CAN say I think, is that maybe Joe didn't grasp the magnitude of this. I have always been of the mind, Paterno built that school and along with Bowden, they should have been afforded the chance to write their own ticket and leave on THEIR terms. The only other coaches I'd give that privledge to are Pat Summit and Coach K. I'm sure Paterno hasn't been PATERNO for a few years now, but this case, either not knowing and grasping the gravity OR precisely knowing and looking past it, are too damning. Either way, he's no longer fit to run a program. He has to go. He'd do well to go gracefully and try to save whatever face he can. If he digs in and struggles, it will be uglier. Its already Ugly. I don't know what else to say, I wish he had gotten out sooner, because this is no way to go. But then again, Joe's inaction, again, if things are as they are reported, is inexcusable and almost unforgivable, especially for a person charged with being a "maker of men".

 

[Tin Cup]

Why wasn't he charged in 99?

Interesting sidenote...the district attorney who failed to bring charges in the incident from the late 90's is the same one that mysteriously went missing one day several years later and was officially declared dead a few months ago.Ray Gricar

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

They banned him from bringing kids to the facilities. Isn't that pretty damning evidence that they knew something was going on?

they banned him from bringing kids there, but apparently didn't stop him from hosting sleepover camps at other campuses. also sounds like they told Second Mile something about him but didn't mention the sodomy and rape story.Seems likely that more victims will come forward as this investigation and case builds. Not sure how anyone in the Penn State administration, including JoePa, can get past the fact that their inaction helped a guy get away with this right in their facilities.

 

[Joe Summer]

PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here. I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.

Does anyone really think that JoePa couldn't have gone to Curley and said "I won't coach another game until Sandusky's office is cleaned out and the police are notified"?

 

[Joe Summer]

I want to ask a theoretical question: suppose Paterno heard the accusation, reported it to Curley, and then a few days later Curley tells Paterno, "We investigated the matter; there's nothing to this story." Does Paterno really have an obligation at that point to pursue this matter on his own? Should he really report it to the police or to the press (pretty much the same thing) and ruin Sandusky's life whether the guy was innocent or guilty?

In the very least, Paterno should have gone to McQueary and asked if it was true that there was "nothing" to the story. He owes that much to himself, to McQueary, to the Penn State alumni, and most of all to that 10-year-old boy.

 

[Joseph]

Has anyone asked this?All I hear is how Paterno and Sandusky were such "good" friends. If they were such "good" friends, why wouldn't Paterno confront Sandusky directly? Wouldn't you confront a "good" friend in a situation like this? Even if it just to kick his ###.No one can say that Paterno couldn't have Sundusky's belongings packed up and set on the curb, and had the locks changed, and had security kick his ### out or not let him in, even if he wasn't a Paterno assistant. It would have taken one phone call.I was feeling sorry for Paterno's situation until I started thinking about it a little more.

It sounds like their relationship may have been strained once Joe told him that he would not be the successor. Now, did Joe make that decision because he knew of Jerry's activitiy? I guess that is the real question here. Not whether Joe did the right thing in 2002, as I think if that was the only time he heard of anything of that nature and given their relationship at the time (non-coach etc.) that he did what he should have by reporting to the AD. However, if Joe knew of his longterm pattern of abuse, well then that is something entirely different. I haven't heard that yet though.

regardless of what he did then, by 2002 he knew of the allegations against sandusky, but in 2007 Sandusky showed up at practice with a young boy, and was running overnight football camps on campus through 2009... Embarrassing to think that dots weren't connected by Paterno.

 

[CrossEyed]

PSU alum, and former Second Mile volunteer here. I heard an interesting spin on this on the radio this morning.1) Sandusky was not on JoePa's staff at the time of the allegations, which means he was NOT a direct report to JoePa, thus JoePa couldn't "fire him," or whatever.

Does anyone really think that JoePa couldn't have gone to Curley and said "I won't coach another game until Sandusky's office is cleaned out and the police are notified"?

Exactly. Paterno has so much power that years ago when the AD showed up to ask him to step down Paterno threw him out of his house.

 

[Joe Summer]

Why wasn't he charged in 99?

Campus Police investigated the matter and concluded that there was nothing to the story. BTW, Campus Police is supervised by Gary Schultz, one of the men on trial.

 

[Hedgehog]

I've lost all respect for Penn State and Paterno.....we are talking about kids being abused here. Nothing lower in this world. I dont care if its my closest co-worker or best friend - an innocent child must be protected at all cost. This is the Catholic church scadal all over again....no excuse for protecting a predator. "Horsing around"? Are you kidding me? I dont know how any of these Penn St guys can sleep at night. Shameful and losing their jobs or facing perjury should be the least of what they face.....

Critical time - they got rid of two of the rats - JoePa has to be next - to have him represent the school for one more second is disgraceful and any alumni should make their feelings known by pulling any contributions. This is not a witch hunt - the guy knew inappropriate actions were taken against a child in his facility! Maybe the law gives him a pass but anyone with deceny and kids should not.....imagine if it was your kid being violated and someone who can stop it does the bare minimum...especially a guy with the power of JoePa!

If Bobby knight can get thrown out of Indiana for his conudct than even St JoePa can be tossed immediately. This is an educational institution - they must be held to a higher standard - I hope they do whats right ASAP but when money and pwer is involved I doubt it.

Full disclosure - I did not attend Penn state but have been a big fan for years - JoePa was my fave college coach the last 25 years ....however as a dad of young kids I find this disgusting and will not support this team ever again.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

What's scary about this whole situation is that it's pretty clear if you are running a big time college sports program pretty much any crime can be committed and you can keep it hush hush for many years. I assume that the coaches on up are used to so much power for so many years in their little bubble that when sexual abuse of children is brought to their attention, instead of being a normal human being and notify the cops, you instead think damage control and keep it quiet and lie and protect YOUR image and legacy.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

They banned him from bringing kids to the facilities. Isn't that pretty damning evidence that they knew something was going on?

we don't care what you're doing, just don't do it here

 

[CrossEyed]

I've lost all respect for Penn State and Paterno.....we are talking about kids being abused here. Nothing lower in this world. I dont care if its my closest co-worker or best friend - an innocent child must be protected at all cost. This is the Catholic church scadal all over again....no excuse for protecting a predator. "Horsing around"? Are you kidding me? I dont know how any of these Penn St guys can sleep at night. Shameful and losing their jobs or facing perjury should be the least of what they face.....

Critical time - they got rid of two of the rats - JoePa has to be next - to have him represent the school for one more second is disgraceful and any alumni should make their feelings known by pulling any contributions. This is not a witch hunt - the guy knew inappropriate actions were taken against a child in his facility! Maybe the law gives him a pass but anyone with deceny and kids should not.....imagine if it was your kid being violated and someone who can stop it does the bare minimum...especially a guy with the power of JoePa!

If Bobby knight can get thrown out of Indiana for his conudct than even St JoePa can be tossed immediately. This is an educational institution - they must be held to a higher standard - I hope they do whats right ASAP but when money and pwer is involved I doubt it.

Full disclosure - I did not attend Penn state but have been a big fan for years - JoePa was my fave college coach the last 25 years ....however as a dad of young kids I find this disgusting and will not support this team ever again.

Not exactly...one retired, the other is on a leave of absence.

 

[Hedgehog]

I've lost all respect for Penn State and Paterno.....we are talking about kids being abused here. Nothing lower in this world. I dont care if its my closest co-worker or best friend - an innocent child must be protected at all cost. This is the Catholic church scadal all over again....no excuse for protecting a predator. "Horsing around"? Are you kidding me? I dont know how any of these Penn St guys can sleep at night. Shameful and losing their jobs or facing perjury should be the least of what they face.....

Critical time - they got rid of two of the rats - JoePa has to be next - to have him represent the school for one more second is disgraceful and any alumni should make their feelings known by pulling any contributions. This is not a witch hunt - the guy knew inappropriate actions were taken against a child in his facility! Maybe the law gives him a pass but anyone with deceny and kids should not.....imagine if it was your kid being violated and someone who can stop it does the bare minimum...especially a guy with the power of JoePa!

If Bobby knight can get thrown out of Indiana for his conudct than even St JoePa can be tossed immediately. This is an educational institution - they must be held to a higher standard - I hope they do whats right ASAP but when money and pwer is involved I doubt it.

Full disclosure - I did not attend Penn state but have been a big fan for years - JoePa was my fave college coach the last 25 years ....however as a dad of young kids I find this disgusting and will not support this team ever again.

Not exactly...one retired, the other is on a leave of absence.

True - my point is at least they are not walking the campus as a rep of the school right now (atleast I hope not) - how JoePa can be a rep of the school after this is shameful...he needs to go TODAY.

 

[Joseph]

They banned him from bringing kids to the facilities. Isn't that pretty damning evidence that they knew something was going on?

we don't care what you're doing, just don't do it here

and by here we mean this facility, we're not really troubled if you do it on the campus of another school in the penn state system... and if you want to bring some kids by practice next week, I'm sure that'll be really impressive to them since we can't really enforce this "no kids on the facilities" rule.

 

[CrossEyed]

I've lost all respect for Penn State and Paterno.....we are talking about kids being abused here. Nothing lower in this world. I dont care if its my closest co-worker or best friend - an innocent child must be protected at all cost. This is the Catholic church scadal all over again....no excuse for protecting a predator. "Horsing around"? Are you kidding me? I dont know how any of these Penn St guys can sleep at night. Shameful and losing their jobs or facing perjury should be the least of what they face.....

Critical time - they got rid of two of the rats - JoePa has to be next - to have him represent the school for one more second is disgraceful and any alumni should make their feelings known by pulling any contributions. This is not a witch hunt - the guy knew inappropriate actions were taken against a child in his facility! Maybe the law gives him a pass but anyone with deceny and kids should not.....imagine if it was your kid being violated and someone who can stop it does the bare minimum...especially a guy with the power of JoePa!

If Bobby knight can get thrown out of Indiana for his conudct than even St JoePa can be tossed immediately. This is an educational institution - they must be held to a higher standard - I hope they do whats right ASAP but when money and pwer is involved I doubt it.

Full disclosure - I did not attend Penn state but have been a big fan for years - JoePa was my fave college coach the last 25 years ....however as a dad of young kids I find this disgusting and will not support this team ever again.

Not exactly...one retired, the other is on a leave of absence.

True - my point is at least they are not walking the campus as a rep of the school right now (atleast I hope not) - how JoePa can be a rep of the school after this is shameful...he needs to go TODAY.

As I mentioned earlier, McQueary is supposedly on a recruiting trip. How do you think THOSE conversations are going with the parents right now?

 

[BobbyLayne]

Why wasn't he charged in 99?

The incident, and the investigation by University Police and subsequently the PA Dept of Public Welfare, was in 1998.Paterno told Sandusky in May 1999 he was never going to be the head coach at Penn State, at least not for the foreseeable future. We don't know what else was said or implied. We do know that fall, Sandusky decided that would be his last season.

As for why he wasn't charged, I'm not sure based on that incident he would have been charged with. It was creepy and weird but maybe not sexual in nature (think he hugged the kid in the showers, some other stuff went down, but it doesn't seem like cut & dried sexual assault). Probably some misdemeanor - I don't know PA law, but something along the lines of indecent exposure or inappropriate touching for that one specific incident. There was no grand jury then, e.g., they didn't seek out additional victims.

read it yourself - victim #6, pages 18-20 of the grand jury presentment

 

[Apple Jack]

That this is a lesser story than the UM/OSU "scandals" shows were we are as a nation. The UM story was front page #### on Yahoo and ESPN.com for two straight weeks.

I haven't seen one site where it's not one of the lead stories.

Elite Manning is lead on ESPN. Just feels light on the coverage. When Tressell resigned it was the main story on ESPN.com for days. Obviously we are in the middle of the NFL season but to me this is one of the biggest stories to rock the NCAA in the last 25 years, arguably ever.

I imagine they're waiting for the final accounting before getting to deeply into it. I wouldn't read too much into anybody not acting like this is a national tragedy yet. If it gets to the point where it is clear that Paterno willfully downplayed what happened and didn't follow up and see to it that it was properly reported to police, then you'll get the ESPN beatdown.

 

[pantherclub]

The more stuff that comes out today the more screwed Paterno is. He wont make it past today at this rate.

 

[E-Z Glider]

Why wasn't he charged in 99?

Interesting sidenote...the district attorney who failed to bring charges in the incident from the late 90's is the same one that mysteriously went missing one day several years later and was officially declared dead a few months ago.Ray Gricar

Was wondering when this would be brought up. Its getting a lot of attention on the innernets. Hard to believe, but this whole thing could actually get worse. Much worse.

 

[Apple Jack]

Why wasn't he charged in 99?

Interesting sidenote...the district attorney who failed to bring charges in the incident from the late 90's is the same one that mysteriously went missing one day several years later and was officially declared dead a few months ago.Ray Gricar

Was wondering when this would be brought up. Its getting a lot of attention on the innernets. Hard to believe, but this whole thing could actually get worse. Much worse.

Not sure why a DA who DIDN'T bring charges would be targeted by anybody in this mess, let alone years after the fact. There's always another DA. This doesn't strike me as anything at first glance. Plus, DAs are involved in emotional hot button cases all the time. If somebody from one of his cases got to him as revenge, I'm sure there were others that were more likely.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It is really interesting that McQueary is still on the coaching staff while Curley and Schultz are trying to say that he never told them the full details of what happened. Seems like it's his word against theirs and the grand jury found him more credible. But, it also sounds like JoePa's story is more similar to theirs. So, it's McQueary's word against all of theirs in terms of how many details he shared? Got to put him in a pretty tough spot. He might take some heat for taking down Paterno.

 

[wadegarrett]

Wouldn't be shocked to see this sick #### Sandusky off himself.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=AlqFPpaHEoaLeKIv13iz4yQ5nYcB?slug=dw-wetzel_paterno_statement_raises_more_questions110611

Pennsylvania law asks employees to pass the information up their chain of command, where it fell on Curley to tell authorities. However, Paterno is no normal middle manager. He is a powerful and iconic figure across the state and Curley worked as much for him as he did for Curley.

Paterno also built his reputation as much for his moral compass and NCAA compliance as his 409 career victories in his five-plus decade career as head coach at Penn State. Paterno has always been about doing more than the letter of the law.

How could he possibly agree that there was concern that something inappropriate may have occurred between an old man and a young boy in the shower of what should’ve been a closed locker room yet apparently believe the information wasn’t inappropriate enough to call the cops himself?

[ Wetzel: Penn State’s insufficient action stunning ]

There is no sliding scale here. There is no reasonable explanation for a then 58-year-old man and a 10-year-old boy to be in that situation. This was a potential sexual assault of a minor occurring inside Paterno’s own locker room, by a long-time assistant coach and former player.

McQueary shouldn’t have had to provide explicit detail of what he saw for Paterno to be outraged and spring to action.

What Paterno heard and how he heard it was enough to call his boss to his home on a Sunday. It also should’ve been enough to follow up with police and continue to pursue it in the ensuing years.

Legally Paterno wasn’t required to do more. But since when has just doing enough been sufficient for a man such as Paterno?

A true leader would’ve done everything he could to spur action and not been satisfied with Curley’s decision to simply ban Sandusky from bringing young boys onto the Penn State campus.

“Sue and I have devoted our lives to helping young people reach their potential,” Paterno’s statement read. “The fact that someone we thought we knew might have harmed young people to this extent is deeply troubling. If this is true we were all fooled, along with scores of professionals trained in such things, and we grieve for the victims and their families. They are in our prayers.”

That was an appropriate sentiment, and a long way from the pathetic statement offered by Penn State president Graham Spanier on Saturday that expressed little concern for the victims and pledged his “unconditional support” for his current employees.

For Paterno the statement is a start, but it’s a long way from a finish. There are many more questions that need answers. Paterno’s life work has earned him the temporary benefit of a doubt, and there is little doubt he regrets not seeing Sandusky for what he was and doing more. But there is no amount of football success that should shield him from a full and limitless investigation into the case.

There is no suggestion here that Paterno face prosecution. There is no suggestion here that Paterno was purposefully harboring a monster.

There is the expectation that he answers the toughest of questions publicly before he assumes the right to coach the Nittany Lions on Saturday against Nebraska.

Paterno owed that boy more back in 2002. That much is clear now. The past can’t be changed but today he owes that same person, Sandusky’s other victims and the people of Pennsylvania a complete explanation of his actions and inactions at that time.

 

[whoknew]

seems really interesting that McQueary is still on the coaching staff while Curley and Schultz are trying to say that he never told them the full details of what happened. Seems like it's his word against theirs and the grand jury found him more credible. But, it also sounds like JoePa's story is more similar to theirs. So, it's McQueary's word against all of theirs in terms of how many details he shared.

I was wondering this also. The relationship between McQueary and Paterno has to be strained at best right now. Curley, Schultz and Paterno are all pretty much blaming McQueary for not telling them enough. That can't sit well with McQueary.

 

[Hedgehog]

I've lost all respect for Penn State and Paterno.....we are talking about kids being abused here. Nothing lower in this world. I dont care if its my closest co-worker or best friend - an innocent child must be protected at all cost. This is the Catholic church scadal all over again....no excuse for protecting a predator. "Horsing around"? Are you kidding me? I dont know how any of these Penn St guys can sleep at night. Shameful and losing their jobs or facing perjury should be the least of what they face.....

Critical time - they got rid of two of the rats - JoePa has to be next - to have him represent the school for one more second is disgraceful and any alumni should make their feelings known by pulling any contributions. This is not a witch hunt - the guy knew inappropriate actions were taken against a child in his facility! Maybe the law gives him a pass but anyone with deceny and kids should not.....imagine if it was your kid being violated and someone who can stop it does the bare minimum...especially a guy with the power of JoePa!

If Bobby knight can get thrown out of Indiana for his conudct than even St JoePa can be tossed immediately. This is an educational institution - they must be held to a higher standard - I hope they do whats right ASAP but when money and pwer is involved I doubt it.

Full disclosure - I did not attend Penn state but have been a big fan for years - JoePa was my fave college coach the last 25 years ....however as a dad of young kids I find this disgusting and will not support this team ever again.

Not exactly...one retired, the other is on a leave of absence.

True - my point is at least they are not walking the campus as a rep of the school right now (atleast I hope not) - how JoePa can be a rep of the school after this is shameful...he needs to go TODAY.

As I mentioned earlier, McQueary is supposedly on a recruiting trip. How do you think THOSE conversations are going with the parents right now?

Wow - can you imagine! "Hello Mr and Mrs Hedgehog - I want to speak to you about what Penn state can offer your child"

Response:

 

[BobbyLayne]

seems really interesting that McQueary is still on the coaching staff while Curley and Schultz are trying to say that he never told them the full details of what happened. Seems like it's his word against theirs and the grand jury found him more credible. But, it also sounds like JoePa's story is more similar to theirs. So, it's McQueary's word against all of theirs in terms of how many details he shared.

The Grand Jury presentment (linked in this thread at least 6-8 times for the folks who never read it) never quotes JoePA using the phrase "horsing around". That's Curley; Schultz was very vague in his recollection, thought it was not that serious, def nothing criminal. Curley was asked point blank if McQueary reported it as anal sex, and multiple times answered no, absolutely not. Paterno, when he called Curley, said it was "fondling or something of a sexual nature". That strikes me as close to McQueary than what Curley or Schultz characterized it as, but probably not as graphically forceful as it could have been. Then again, not sure 75 y.o. (as he was then) JoePA has had very many conversations in which he used graphic descriptive sexual terms. But I'm just assuming there...

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

seems really interesting that McQueary is still on the coaching staff while Curley and Schultz are trying to say that he never told them the full details of what happened. Seems like it's his word against theirs and the grand jury found him more credible. But, it also sounds like JoePa's story is more similar to theirs. So, it's McQueary's word against all of theirs in terms of how many details he shared.

The Grand Jury presentment (linked in this thread at least 6-8 times for the folks who never read it) never quotes JoePA using the phrase "horsing around". That's Curley; Schultz was very vague in his recollection, thought it was not that serious, def nothing criminal. Curley was asked point blank if McQueary reported it as anal sex, and multiple times answered no, absolutely not. Paterno, when he called Curley, said it was "fondling or something of a sexual nature". That strikes me as close to McQueary than what Curley or Schultz characterized it as, but probably not as graphically forceful as it could have been. Then again, not sure 75 y.o. (as he was then) JoePA has had very many conversations in which he used graphic descriptive sexual terms. But I'm just assuming there...

I didn't mention any of that. I'm talking about JoePa's statement yesterday when he said this:

It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report.

this also sounds like the story by Curley and Schultz:

Curley and Penn State vice president Gary Schultz were also charged with failure to report the abuse of a child and perjury for claiming they were not told of “sexual acts” by the graduate assistant,

all 3 seem to be calling McQueary a liar here, or at least saying that he didn't share as many details as he claimed in his grand jury testimony.maybe he was too upset or didn't really want to get into the graphic details with JoePa. But isn't McQueary saying that he DID tell JoePa those details?

 

[AmosMoses]

So sad in this day and age, we all know every football program is dirty as hell. Then there is Penn State, run by the beacon of integrity. That one turns out to be the worst of them all.

 

[B-Deep]

Curley and Penn State vice president Gary Schultz were also charged with failure to report the abuse of a child and perjury for claiming they were not told of “sexual acts” by the graduate assistant,

all 3 seem to be calling McQueary a liar here, or at least saying that he didn't share as many details as he claimed.

seems odd that Joepa was not charged with perjury

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

at least in Pulp Fiction when this happened, Marcellus got a chance at some immediate revenge.

 

[CrossEyed]

So how do you not attempt to find out more details when an allegation like this is brought to your attention? Did anyone think to find out who the boy was and make sure someone interviewed him to see exactly what happened?

Man this thing stinks SO bad.