John Lynch -- Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

[Tau837]

EDIT to fill in some of Butler's stats I found at ESPN.com.  I must note that I found non-trivial discrepancies between ESPN's numbers and those at NFL.com for some of the others, so these numbers for Butler may not be correct.  If these numbers are correct, Butler has the most compelling case of any of these safeties IMO.

STATS, Inc. is generally a much more reliable source for defensive stats than either ESPN.com or NFL.com, IMHO:http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/players...=1764&Submit=Go

Thanks. Even that page differs from the NFL.com page:- NFL.com shows Butler with 3 TDs while ESPN & STATS show 1.

- STATS shows 672 solo tackles and 218 assists. ESPN shows 713 and 176, respectively. Pretty large discrepancy. NFL.com doesn't show these statistics for Butler for some reason.

Here is another example.

- For Harrison, NFL.com shows 820 tackles and 244 assists. STATS shows 793 and 233, respectively. ESPN shows 807 and 220. Why are they all different? Wouldn't NFL.com be the definitive source in this case?

Regardless, I misread tackles for some guys yesterday... I didn't include assists in most cases. Not that stats or specifically tackles are the defining achievement, but that definitely boosts Harrison higher in this comparison, particularly when you consider that he has played significantly fewer games than the other safeties other than Dawkins.

 

[Gargoylez]

I beleive it was the last season he was with the bucs, Lynch played a great game with a SEPERATED shoulder if memory serves me correct.Does Lynch deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Without a doubt. A true leader, one of the best safties ever and a gentleman off the field.Will he? Probably not because people get hung up on stats and not on what truly happened on the field. Wins another superbowl, he has a better shot.

 

[Tau837]

I beleive it was the last season he was with the bucs, Lynch played a great game with a SEPERATED shoulder if memory serves me correct.

Does Lynch deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Without a doubt. A true leader, one of the best safties ever and a gentleman off the field.

Will he? Probably not because people get hung up on stats and not on what truly happened on the field. Wins another superbowl, he has a better shot.

Are you suggesting that Harrison, Dawkins, Butler, and Darren Woodson were not leaders on the field? Have any of them ever played hurt? I would assume so.It's not all about stats. Statistics are one measure, and Lynch does not compare well against the other top safeties of his era statistically. He is at or near the bottom of the group.

Another measure is voting recognition, such as Pro Bowl selections, All Pro selections, and other awards. Lynch compares well in this area, but he does not clearly stand out above the others.

Another measure is team postseason success. Lynch measures up OK in this area, but again not clearly better than the others, at least not yet.

Another measure is what each voter remembers about a candidate. This can be influenced by the voter's own memories of watching him play and/or by the media. It helps if the player made some memorable plays at big moments. This is also where intangibles such as leadership ability come into play. I think this area helps Lynch, but is he head and shoulders above Harrison & Butler? I don't think so.

It seems to me that considering all of those things, not just statistics, ranks Harrison, Butler, and Darren Woodson above Lynch, and I think the jury is still out on Dawkins. Did I miss some major consideration that elevates Lynch above the others?

 

[cracKer]

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

 

[Jason Wood]

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.

Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

History has been particularly kind to dynastic teams, which the 90s Cowboys certainly were. To be fair, Woodson has been referred to as "Future Hall of Famer" Darren Woodson a great many times these last few years [i.e., when he's being introduced for an ESPN news segment or Sportscenter]. I agree that neither are locks, but Woodson, in my opinion, has the edge over Harrison for two reasons...One, he's a 4-time All Pro, Two, some voters will hold it against Harrison that he has a reputation as a head hunter.

 

[Tau837]

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.

Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

History has been particularly kind to dynastic teams, which the 90s Cowboys certainly were. To be fair, Woodson has been referred to as "Future Hall of Famer" Darren Woodson a great many times these last few years [i.e., when he's being introduced for an ESPN news segment or Sportscenter]. I agree that neither are locks, but Woodson, in my opinion, has the edge over Harrison for two reasons...One, he's a 4-time All Pro, Two, some voters will hold it against Harrison that he has a reputation as a head hunter.

You have posted this twice, but I can only find that he has made it 3 times, from 1994-1996. LINKIs it 3 times or 4 times? It might not seem like a big deal, but all of the guys we are talking about have made it at least twice, and it makes a difference since they are all grouped so closely together.

EDIT: By the way, based on the STATS numbers, Harrison has played 20 fewer games than Woodson, yet he has more tackles, sacks, interceptions, passes defensed, and TDs, in some cases significantly more. And while Woodson's teams won one more Super Bowl, they have each played in 3. The difference between 3 and 4 All Pro selections for Woodson could make a difference between them.

 

[kupcho1]

The Hall of Pretty Good

 

[MarshallRob]

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.

Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

History has been particularly kind to dynastic teams, which the 90s Cowboys certainly were. To be fair, Woodson has been referred to as "Future Hall of Famer" Darren Woodson a great many times these last few years [i.e., when he's being introduced for an ESPN news segment or Sportscenter]. I agree that neither are locks, but Woodson, in my opinion, has the edge over Harrison for two reasons...One, he's a 4-time All Pro, Two, some voters will hold it against Harrison that he has a reputation as a head hunter.

You have posted this twice, but I can only find that he has made it 3 times, from 1994-1996. LINKIs it 3 times or 4 times? It might not seem like a big deal, but all of the guys we are talking about have made it at least twice, and it makes a difference since they are all grouped so closely together.

EDIT: By the way, based on the STATS numbers, Harrison has played 20 fewer games than Woodson, yet he has more tackles, sacks, interceptions, passes defensed, and TDs, in some cases significantly more. And while Woodson's teams won one more Super Bowl, they have each played in 3. The difference between 3 and 4 All Pro selections for Woodson could make a difference between them.

Darren Woodson made everybody's All-Pro team from 1994-1996. In 1998, the safeties for the AP and the Football Writers' teams were LeRoy Butler and Rodney Harrison. The Sporting News picked Butler for one spot, while Harrison, Woodson, and Robert Griffith all tied for the other one, so all 4 guys could count as All-Pro that year.

 

[ICON211]

I don't think John Lynch belongs in the HOF. He is the second most overrated player in the league next to Charles Woodson.

 

[Jason Wood]

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.

Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

History has been particularly kind to dynastic teams, which the 90s Cowboys certainly were. To be fair, Woodson has been referred to as "Future Hall of Famer" Darren Woodson a great many times these last few years [i.e., when he's being introduced for an ESPN news segment or Sportscenter]. I agree that neither are locks, but Woodson, in my opinion, has the edge over Harrison for two reasons...One, he's a 4-time All Pro, Two, some voters will hold it against Harrison that he has a reputation as a head hunter.

You have posted this twice, but I can only find that he has made it 3 times, from 1994-1996. LINKIs it 3 times or 4 times? It might not seem like a big deal, but all of the guys we are talking about have made it at least twice, and it makes a difference since they are all grouped so closely together.

EDIT: By the way, based on the STATS numbers, Harrison has played 20 fewer games than Woodson, yet he has more tackles, sacks, interceptions, passes defensed, and TDs, in some cases significantly more. And while Woodson's teams won one more Super Bowl, they have each played in 3. The difference between 3 and 4 All Pro selections for Woodson could make a difference between them.

If Darren Woodson is the measuring stick for Lynch, I don't think either will get in. I never thought of Woodson as a HoF player.

Aeneas Williams is an interesting case. He matches up very well against the other top CBs (Sanders Green). Wonder what playing on the Cardinals will do for his stock.

History has been particularly kind to dynastic teams, which the 90s Cowboys certainly were. To be fair, Woodson has been referred to as "Future Hall of Famer" Darren Woodson a great many times these last few years [i.e., when he's being introduced for an ESPN news segment or Sportscenter]. I agree that neither are locks, but Woodson, in my opinion, has the edge over Harrison for two reasons...One, he's a 4-time All Pro, Two, some voters will hold it against Harrison that he has a reputation as a head hunter.

You have posted this twice, but I can only find that he has made it 3 times, from 1994-1996. LINKIs it 3 times or 4 times? It might not seem like a big deal, but all of the guys we are talking about have made it at least twice, and it makes a difference since they are all grouped so closely together.

EDIT: By the way, based on the STATS numbers, Harrison has played 20 fewer games than Woodson, yet he has more tackles, sacks, interceptions, passes defensed, and TDs, in some cases significantly more. And while Woodson's teams won one more Super Bowl, they have each played in 3. The difference between 3 and 4 All Pro selections for Woodson could make a difference between them.

Darren Woodson made everybody's All-Pro team from 1994-1996. In 1998, the safeties for the AP and the Football Writers' teams were LeRoy Butler and Rodney Harrison. The Sporting News picked Butler for one spot, while Harrison, Woodson, and Robert Griffith all tied for the other one, so all 4 guys could count as All-Pro that year.

 

[Capella]

Guess we can stop worrying about that second Super Bowl, or memorable playoff moment.Poor John.

 

[MarshallRob]

Guess we can stop worrying about that second Super Bowl, or memorable playoff moment.

Poor John.

Yeah, have to say he didn't help himself today.

 

[mojorizin]

Sure, put him in the hall, but you know I hate that guy.

 

[Sinrman]

Lynch isn't a lock, but he may eventually get in...Sapp? Mmm, decent chance, though his career is definitely on a decline, and most everyone remembers the last few years.Brooks? Yeah, I think he has a great chance, and deservedly so.Rice? Mmm, not right now. Would need more to get him a look.Barber? I think he has as decent a chance as Lynch. Rhonde has been one of the more consistent players the last several years. May eventually get in...

 

[ren hoek]

This thread raises some very interesting points about the past few Super Bowls. It seems like a lot of the recent Super Bowl champions had big-time safeties. Rodney HarrisonJohn LynchRod WoodsonRonnie LottDarren WoodsonI find that pretty interesting. [/hijack]

 

[Tau837]

Barber? I think he has as decent a chance as Lynch. Rhonde has been one of the more consistent players the last several years. May eventually get in...

Hard to see this. As mentioned earlier, there are 7 pure cornerbacks in the HOF, plus Lott and Renfro, who played both CB and S. And only a total of 16 DBs. It seems clear that Green, Sanders, Rod Woodson, and Aeneas Williams will make it before Barber, not to mention a couple of the safeties already discussed here. I don't see any room left for Ronde.