the spanker
Footballguy
Someone dropped Jones and I already own Forsett. I'm thinking about picking up Jones. Even though he hasn't lit things up he's still the starter right?
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Julius Jones expected to play and start. Rotoworld in denial (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gradin123
- Start date
Enforcer
Footballguy
Better?DAL 15-56IND 11-25SF 8-11Do you really want to lean on these numbers to try and prop Jones up?Here's a thought...When Seattle faced Arizona the first time Jones had 5 yards on 5 carries.When Seattle faced Arizona the second time Forsett had 123 yards on 17 carries.In my opinion that set of stats is just about as relevant as the ones you're trying to point to.
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Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
No, not at all. But someone had just implied that Forsett's 8-for-9 outing was evidence of Forsett's superiority.The Dallas defense is only allowing 4.07 YPC. Indy is allowing 4.14. Minnesota was averaging 4.15 YPC going into last week's game. So wouldn't you expect Forsett to at least equal Jones' numbers against Dallas or Indy (mediocre as they might be)?
Jones played poorly against 3 good defenses. But Forsett was historically awful against a similarly-good defense. That's troubling. And it's certainly not very good evidence in Forsett's favor. At this point I think it's more accurate to say that they both suck -- equally.
Enforcer
Footballguy
Well gee, are there any cases of them facing the exact same defense? I think you should stop with this line. Its a poor choice for an argument. The stats mean pretty much nothing compared to just observing what's going on during play. Have you seen every carry from both Jones and Forsett this year? As a Seattle homer (and I know I speak for a large majority of Seattle fans) we would prefer to see Forsett get more touches. What's he capable of? We don't know yet, but would like to find out. He hasn't had enough touches for any rational fan to give an honest and objective informed opinion. Don't you think your flat out "he sucks" evaluation is just a bit premature? His entire career consists of 45 carries. I guess I should ask, how many of those carries did you witness?
Football Jones
Footballguy
I have serious doubts whether Forsett is the longterm answer in Seattle, but he's clearly better than JJ & he's looked pretty decent. The jury is still out on Forsett, obviously.
We don't know what More is going to do. He may not give JJ a lot of touches, but he might give him the start.
Hard to say. I'm sure we'll know a lot more after this week (if JJ plays).
We don't know what More is going to do. He may not give JJ a lot of touches, but he might give him the start.
Hard to say. I'm sure we'll know a lot more after this week (if JJ plays).
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
LOL at "you can't judge a player because I've seen more of his carries than you".When I tell you that I've seen all 45 of his regular season carries plus every preseason game, will that shut you up? No. You'll just find some other reason to justify your homerism.But yes, I've seen every Seahawk game this year. And neither one of those running backs has impressed me. I, too, thought Forsett might be the better back, and I had high hopes for him. But his performance against Minnesota was just awful. There's really no excuse for getting stuffed 5 out of 9 times.I think it's ludicrous to dismiss last week's game because it was a tough defense. YOU HAVE TO PLAY TOUGH DEFENSES ALL THE TIME!!! If we're going to give Forsett a "pass" because he played Minnesota, then you're making the exact same argument that the Julius Jones lovers have been making.
Enforcer
Footballguy
Shut up? Really? Well, I guess we'll just disagree. You've written the player off, I haven't. No problem.
I've got no response to this. Homerism? I like to think I'm being pretty objective here. I don't have a problem with just agreeing to disagree.
This is where we disagree by a wide margin. Calling his personal performance "awful" is short sighted in my opinion. I said it above and my opinion hasn't changed. No running back in the NFL would have posted anything but awful statistics in that game. Blaming a poker player for the hand they get dealt is wrong.
Dismiss? Okay. I'm done now. We disagree. If you have to have a final word go ahead. I promise not to reply. It would have been nice to have a discussion about opportunity combined with potential, but that's not going to happen.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
This is where blind homerism gets in the way of rational thought. If every running back in the NFL would have duplicated Forsett's stats against Minnesota, why were so many other RBs able to post superior numbers against Minnesota? Maurice Morris did better than Forsett against Minnesota, for God's sake!! Jamal Lewis had a decent game against Minnesota, and Cleveland's line is worse than Seattle's!I do like your poker analogy, though. Forsett was dealt a bad hand. But instead of making a play with it, he mucked.
silentcoach
Footballguy
Well played, sir.
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lyon812
Footballguy
And Jones's 8-11 wasn't historically awful? Every running back puts up horrible lines on occasion. Yes, even the APs and CJs and MJDs of the world. Remember Peterson's 14-3 outing in 2007? Forsett may not be on the same level as them, but considering it was the only start of his career, and only the second time he's received only the second time in his career he's gotten more than six carries, it's both ridiculous and premature to sound his death knells. Jones has had ample opportunity to demonstrate that he sucks, this year and last.
Forsett's had one start. Is he superior? Who knows. But he certainly deserves a chance to show that he is or isn't.
The Comedian
Footballguy
This isn't what switz does.
Chief
Footballguy
Putting all the he said - he said going on in this post, MGB makes the most relevant comment. I would like to know how much or little JJ practices tomorrow (Friday) in trying to figure how much either back should be expected to play.ETA: No practice on Friday? when do they travel?
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kip stabone
Footballguy
Article from Seahawks.com claiming JJ practiced and felt good... Sorry I can't figure out how to post the link or post the text in a quote, just want to convey the information.
Julius Jones. The Seahawks’ leading rusher had a lot to be thankful for on this Thanksgiving Day. For starters, Jones returned to practice for the first time since having a lung bruised in the Nov. 15 loss to the Cardinals in Arizona.
“It was all right. It was cool,” Jones said after taking part in a very spirited practice. “It felt good to get back out there. I hate watching. I hate being on the side watching.”
Last Sunday, Jones had to watch as the running game struggled in generating just 4 yards – the lowest total in franchise history. So getting Jones back for this week’s game against the Rams in St. Louis definitely would be a step in a more positive direction.
“If I can, I’ll play,” Jones said. “It’s just a matter of taking it day by day.”
The key to how much Jones can do in practice Friday will be determined by how he bounces back from his limited role today.
“There’s going to be (some residual effect),” he said. “It was a pretty brutal injury that I had. Like I said, I’m going to take it day by day and hopefully I’ll be able to play soon.”
Jones ran for a season-high 117 yards in the Seahawks’ 28-0 romp over the Rams in their season opener. His day included a 62-yard touchdown run.
“We had some success against them early, but it’s kind of a different team now,” Jones said. “They’re playing much better. Their offense is pretty good; Steven Jackson is rolling pretty good. So they’re a different team. So we’re not going to look back at last time and say, ‘Oh, we’re going to do that to them again.’ Because they’re a totally different team.”
Julius Jones. The Seahawks’ leading rusher had a lot to be thankful for on this Thanksgiving Day. For starters, Jones returned to practice for the first time since having a lung bruised in the Nov. 15 loss to the Cardinals in Arizona.
“It was all right. It was cool,” Jones said after taking part in a very spirited practice. “It felt good to get back out there. I hate watching. I hate being on the side watching.”
Last Sunday, Jones had to watch as the running game struggled in generating just 4 yards – the lowest total in franchise history. So getting Jones back for this week’s game against the Rams in St. Louis definitely would be a step in a more positive direction.
“If I can, I’ll play,” Jones said. “It’s just a matter of taking it day by day.”
The key to how much Jones can do in practice Friday will be determined by how he bounces back from his limited role today.
“There’s going to be (some residual effect),” he said. “It was a pretty brutal injury that I had. Like I said, I’m going to take it day by day and hopefully I’ll be able to play soon.”
Jones ran for a season-high 117 yards in the Seahawks’ 28-0 romp over the Rams in their season opener. His day included a 62-yard touchdown run.
“We had some success against them early, but it’s kind of a different team now,” Jones said. “They’re playing much better. Their offense is pretty good; Steven Jackson is rolling pretty good. So they’re a different team. So we’re not going to look back at last time and say, ‘Oh, we’re going to do that to them again.’ Because they’re a totally different team.”
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BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
I don't see it that way. I see that as meaning it felt good to BE BACK, not so much as the injury felt fine. And his following comments prove that I think.kip stabone said:
Talking about how brutal it was and being day to day is not encouraging for the short run (Sunday). And those last comments especially, indicate to me he's not 100%...physically or mentally.
ft_ball_fan
Footballguy
No--actually everything on the field Stats wise DOES support Forsett being better than JJones. I'm unsure what SF game you're talking about where JJones posted better stats than Forsett did vs MIN... and I can't believe you're pointing to JJones stats vs SF as a good thing.JJones vs SF: 8 carries for 11 yards and 3 rec for -2 yards (total of 11 touches for 9 yards)
Forsett vs MIN 8 carries for 9 yards and 8 rec for 80. 9 total yards vs 89 yards--Looks to me like JJ did WORSE vs SF than Forsett did vs MIN, not better.
p.s. In the same game vs SF... Forsett had 5 carries for 35 yards & 6 rec for 57 yards. That's 11 touches for 92 yards.
Also--SF/DAL/IND are NOT better at defending RB's than MIN (only PIT is better than MIN stat wise vs RBs)... if you take out QB/WR yardage and look only RBs:
IND 1008 yards and 6 TD, 4.2 ypc
DAL 936 yards 3 TDs. (before todays game) 4.2 ypc
SF 900 yards and 7 TDs... 3.8 ypc
Min 693 and 3 TDs. 3.6 ypc
This is on the ground only... But add in RB receiving yards/TDs and the story is the same.
FFT Stats Allowed to RBs
For the YEAR...
JJones: 107 for 392 and 2 TD (3.7 ypc). <<20 rec for 177 2 TD's>>
Forsett 46 for 255 and 2 TD's (5.7 ypc). <<29 rec for 246 0 TD's>>
Total stats...
JJones 127 touches for 596--4.5 yards per touch
Forsett 75 touches for 501--6.7 yards per touch
If you want to argue JJones shouldn't lose his job because of injury.. or that Forsett would wear down and is too small to be a primary back, or doesn't have the experience... or mabye isn't as fast as JJ (I have no idea).. I'm not going to argue any of those points. But can we now PLEASE drop the MIN game and how badly Forsett did as a reason JJ should return as the starter... Because JJones did WORSE than Forsett vs a lesser RUN D in SF and has posted CRUMMY stats vs cake run D's (already listed them)--so pointing to the MIN game to bash Forsett and argue FOR JJ starting is illogical.
p.s. Back on topic of the original post-->I'm not arguing Forsett is GOING to start. I have no doubt he will not and JJones will... SEA obviously isn't enamored with Forsett for WHATEVER reason--they didn't praise him after the AZ game despite a more than solid performance--but certainly are bashing him for MIN (and I don't remember them bashing JJones when he blew chunks vs SF). As others have stated SF might see something we do not (in practice or film or salary) that makes JJones a better starter.
It also occurs to me that this type of decision making from coaches might be some of the reason SEA is 3-7.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Like any good decision maker I do not make decisions based off such a limited sample as you're citing. I've liked what I've seen from this kid dating back to his last season at Cal, yea he's a little on the small side but he runs bigger than his size and he's got all the other skills necessary for a RB to be successful in the league.Forsett's out played Jones all season long, and Jones has done nothing to prove he should continue to shoulder the load. The season's a wash, and Forsett has shown potential that he could be a piece of this offense for the long run, but he needs the opportunity to prove it. If he ends up doing like Sproles and shows he's just a returner/passing downs back then so be it, but give him the chance to prove that first. It'd be one thing if he was being held back by a superior option, but he's not, Jones sucks, and has proven that over and over and over again. You know what you're getting from Jones, suck, you may not get that from Forsett.
Rant over, but given the comments above from Jones, I'm starting Forsett. Athletes always talk more optimistically about their condition than they really are, if that's how Jones feels right now then I think it's a good bet he does not play this weekend. I'd rather wait to make the final decision Sunday but I don't have that option this week, so...here we go...
joffer
Footballguy
Seahawks | Jones not sure if he will play Week 12 Fri Nov 27, 10:51 AM
Eric Williams, of the Tacoma News Tribune, reports Seattle Seahawks RB Julius Jones (lung) said he is not sure if he will be able to play in Week 12. Jones said his conditioning is OK, so the decision may depend on how much pain he is experiencing as it gets closer to the game.
Eric Williams, of the Tacoma News Tribune, reports Seattle Seahawks RB Julius Jones (lung) said he is not sure if he will be able to play in Week 12. Jones said his conditioning is OK, so the decision may depend on how much pain he is experiencing as it gets closer to the game.
the spanker
Footballguy
Jones status is looking to be more doubtful.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines...L&hl=160753
Let's hope so, I could really use Forsett this week.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines...L&hl=160753
Let's hope so, I could really use Forsett this week.
MCguidance
Footballguy
Rotoworld stayed the course and it paid off.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Big Blue Wrecking Crew
downsized
To gauge Forsett's bump in value for today, who you are starting/considering him over?
For me, it's down to Forsett vs. Pierre, leaning towards Forsett
For me, it's down to Forsett vs. Pierre, leaning towards Forsett
Chunky Soup
Footballguy
Considering Forsett over MSW...
Arnold. S
Footballguy
starting Forsett over Pierre, Mendenhall, McCoy, and Cadillac...
Please See Mine
Footballguy
Ditto, though I'm very uneasy.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Wow, that's ballsy. Mendenhall and McCoy are top-15 players the last few weeks.
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the spanker
Footballguy
Same here over P.T. but keeping McCoy in my lineup.
D'OHtis
Footballguy
So to recap: Rotoworld was right, and gradin123 is in denial.
gradin123
ft_ball_fan
Footballguy
are people seriously going to blame gradin123 for reporting what the coaches said and taking them at face value? SEA was saying for a while that JJones was the man and would start... I don't fault gradin123 for believing them...
GL to everyone today.
GL to everyone today.
mex
Footballguy
I started him over MSW, although if AP doesn't go then I put MSW in at the flex
It's not that he was listening to the coaches. It's that he was talking #### about Forsett and JJ was superior. Forsett is already at 5/43/1. That's what makes him look foolish imo.
BRONG
FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY
Did we get a touch already? :whoosh:
David Lee Roethlisberger
Footballguy
People were jumping on gradin long before Forsett went 5/43/1.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
As long as we're fair both ways, then I'm fine with giving gradin123 a pass. But this trend of "Rotoworld is in denial" is getting a little old when Rotoworld consistently works through the coachspeak to make the right call.There was a similar thread a month ago with guys jumping all over Rotoworld for saying Mendenhall would start over FWP despite the coaches indicating otherwise.
djmich
Footballguy
Think it had to do with the phrasing of "rotoworld in denial"...as in they are ignoring facts and don't know what they are talking about. Really the situation was always questionable and Rotworld was just interpreting the situation differently.
Still feeling uneasy?
Instinctive
Footballguy
lol...rotoworld in denial....
Shoudl I take that to mean "Roto was right and perhaps we should think about what they have to say in the future?"
P.S. glad I did
Shoudl I take that to mean "Roto was right and perhaps we should think about what they have to say in the future?"
P.S. glad I did
Please See Mine
Footballguy
yeah . . .
I know it was a bad St.Louis team, but i can't see how Forsett hasn't earned the starting job. Over the last 3 weeks with JJ injured he has 47 carries, 262 yds (5.5ypc) 4 td's , 13rec 106 yds.
Many say that he sucked because of the Minny game last week, but he still had 80 yards receiving. So broken down he has scored a Td and had at least 89 total yards a game for 3 weeks.
I read these posts here during the week bashing the kid, and wanted to see how he would bounce back after a dismal game, and he was awesome today (i know it is the Rams).
For the rest of the season he has a couple of nice matchups (texans, Bucs) and he has the 49ers, pack and titans all teams that can be run on. I'm never going to start him ahead of the guys i have (Rice, mccoy, benson) but he may help a lot of teams during the playoffs this year. In Dynasty i am curious what others think of his chance of going into 2010 as a starter, or is he destined to be another Mo Morris for seattle
Many say that he sucked because of the Minny game last week, but he still had 80 yards receiving. So broken down he has scored a Td and had at least 89 total yards a game for 3 weeks.
I read these posts here during the week bashing the kid, and wanted to see how he would bounce back after a dismal game, and he was awesome today (i know it is the Rams).
For the rest of the season he has a couple of nice matchups (texans, Bucs) and he has the 49ers, pack and titans all teams that can be run on. I'm never going to start him ahead of the guys i have (Rice, mccoy, benson) but he may help a lot of teams during the playoffs this year. In Dynasty i am curious what others think of his chance of going into 2010 as a starter, or is he destined to be another Mo Morris for seattle
D'OHtis
Footballguy
He'll be a lot more than Mo Morris. Grab a pounder in the middle rounds of the draft for the Alstott role [Gerhart?] & use him as the Warrick Dunn [while he may not be as explosive as Warrick was in his heyday, is who he reminds me of]. Runs much bigger than his size & is compact.
He's a long term committee back [as are a lot of backs around the league]. Nice value in PPR leagues.
And finally, he does EVERYTHING better than Julius Jones. However, I would not doubt a bit if Julius is reinserted as 'starter' upon return.
He's a long term committee back [as are a lot of backs around the league]. Nice value in PPR leagues.
And finally, he does EVERYTHING better than Julius Jones. However, I would not doubt a bit if Julius is reinserted as 'starter' upon return.
So to recap: Rotoworld was right, and gradin123 is in denial.
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groin pains
Footballguy
Read that JJ fully practiced on Wed!! GRRRRRRR!!!!!!
(unwelcomed)GUEST
Footballguy
Yep, I nabbed Forsett in two 10 team re-draft leagues and he's going to stay on the bench unless JJ is inactive, JJ's active and we see how Mora's going to use these two or Jones returns and gets hurt again. I'm hanging on to Forsett because he's a RB1 if he gets the touches. I think everyone outside the Seahawks organization see Forsett as the better RB but until Mora realizes this, he's going to ride the pine in smaller fantasy leagues.
Brock Middlebrook
Footballguy
even the coaches were hedging on that if you read their comments
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
I don't understand why Mora insists on forcing Jones down our throats. Why not give Forsett an opportunity to play against a real defense or two? Or did Mora make up his mind after the Minnesota game?
Or maybe he's setting Jones up to fail against San Francisco?
Or maybe he's setting Jones up to fail against San Francisco?
PosterNutBag
Footballguy
It does seem silly, I agree. What makes it even more ridiculous is the fact that Seattle is done for this season. Why wouldn't they want to get Forsett more work? I would think that is a good way for his pass blocking to potentially improve since he certainly looks like their 2010 starting RB to everyone.
