KC leads the AFC West (1 Viewer)

[Skilo]

They may not be winning pretty, but they are winning. After watching them in week 1, I would have been shocked if they only won 4 games all season, let alone in the first half.

Kudos to KC for finding a way to win.

 

[Newslang]

 

[Routilla]

They may not be winning pretty, but they are winning. After watching them in week 1, I would have been shocked if they only won 4 games all season, let alone in the first half. Kudos to KC for finding a way to win.

Shhhhhh. The Herm haters will get uncomfortable, especially with Mangina and the Jets reeling at 1-6.

 

[CalBear]

They were a playoff team last year and returned almost the entire team; predictions of disaster were not reality-based.

 

[Kevin Ashcraft]

They were a playoff team last year and returned almost the entire team; predictions of disaster were not reality-based.

AMEN......I agree, week 1 was pitiful, but since then, on the whole, they have been a good team. 2 divisional road wins is superb.Now we get a bye and then get the Pack come to KC for a rare game at Arrowhead...I think they have only played here like twice since 1980.The KC defense needs to start getting some props nationally. Simms and Nantz I thought did an good job today explaining to a large audience how the KC DEF has come of age with guys like Allen, Hali, D. Johnson, N. Harris, Pollard and Page. Ty Law may be the weakest part of that defense now.

 

[Capella]

Still don't get the irrational Herm hate in this place.

 

[prefontaine]

Herm is not a great coach. But he can get any team to 7-9 to 9-7. I'm pretty sure that would be his record whether he was coaching the Pats or the Rams.

 

[Jayrod]

Wait? So they aren't the worst team in football, now?

Hard to keep up with all of the "experts" around here.

 

[SSOG]

Still don't get the irrational Herm hate in this place.

And I don't get the irrational love for a guy who, coming into today, had a 50% career winning percentage through 102 games (51-51), and has never coached a team to more than 10 wins in a season.He's not the worst coach in the league, but he's hardly a great coach. Maybe he's a good coach- MAYBE- but so are Jack Del Rio, John Fox, and Tom Coughlin (all three of whom have a higher career winning percentage than Herm), but nobody's coming forward and calling criticisms of those three "irrational".Herm's one hell of a motivator, but there's more to being a coach than being a motivator. He took over a team that had a 63% winning percentage in the three years before he got there, and he has guided them to a 55% winning percentage since he's been there, so it's not like he's turning around KC's fortunes or anything, either. All three of the guys that I mentioned took over teams that were AWFUL (all three teams were significantly under .500 in the three years before the coach arrived), and all three of the guys that I mentioned have made their teams very competitive (combined 12-5 record so far this season)... yet, for some reason, all three of the coaches I mentioned are on the hot seat, while Herm is somehow worth the draft picks that KC gave up for him.

 

[majech]

Still don't get the irrational Herm hate in this place.

And I don't get the irrational love for a guy who, coming into today, had a 50% career winning percentage through 102 games (51-51), and has never coached a team to more than 10 wins in a season.He's not the worst coach in the league, but he's hardly a great coach. Maybe he's a good coach- MAYBE- but so are Jack Del Rio, John Fox, and Tom Coughlin (all three of whom have a higher career winning percentage than Herm), but nobody's coming forward and calling criticisms of those three "irrational".Herm's one hell of a motivator, but there's more to being a coach than being a motivator. He took over a team that had a 63% winning percentage in the three years before he got there, and he has guided them to a 55% winning percentage since he's been there, so it's not like he's turning around KC's fortunes or anything, either. All three of the guys that I mentioned took over teams that were AWFUL (all three teams were significantly under .500 in the three years before the coach arrived), and all three of the guys that I mentioned have made their teams very competitive (combined 12-5 record so far this season)... yet, for some reason, all three of the coaches I mentioned are on the hot seat, while Herm is somehow worth the draft picks that KC gave up for him.

Wow, you're great with stats. Too bad there is more to life than numbers and I'm an engineering student. Look at the QB injury debacles Herm dealt with while coaching the Jets. You think that had an affect on his record? The Chiefs went to the playoffs ONE time with Vermeil in 5 seasons, and they've gone one time with Herm in 1 season. Look at the Chiefs offensive talent during Vermeil's run. They were great with Green/Gonzo/Priest/LJ/ROAF/SHEILDS/Kennison. That team under Vermeil got REALLY old. The team Herm inherited was totally different. Only LJ and Gonzo are currently playing from that stellar bunch that vermeil had. I'm not saying Herm is a great coach, but I think he's gotten a lot out of what he's had. Just look at what he's done with the Chiefs defense. They were HORRIBLE and now they are tough. Go Chiefs!

 

[SSOG]

Wow, you're great with stats. Too bad there is more to life than numbers and I'm an engineering student. Look at the QB injury debacles Herm dealt with while coaching the Jets. You think that had an affect on his record? The Chiefs went to the playoffs ONE time with Vermeil in 5 seasons, and they've gone one time with Herm in 1 season. Look at the Chiefs offensive talent during Vermeil's run. They were great with Green/Gonzo/Priest/LJ/ROAF/SHEILDS/Kennison. That team under Vermeil got REALLY old. The team Herm inherited was totally different. Only LJ and Gonzo are currently playing from that stellar bunch that vermeil had. I'm not saying Herm is a great coach, but I think he's gotten a lot out of what he's had. Just look at what he's done with the Chiefs defense. They were HORRIBLE and now they are tough. Go Chiefs!

Herm isn't the only one who's had to deal with injuries. John Fox lost Steve Smith for an entire season, and has had to deal with injuries to Delhomme, not to mention that debacle of a season where he practically had to start his 3rd string FB at RB. Del Rio has had a QB with tissue paper for ligaments. Also, you're getting on my case for misleading numbers and then you pull out the playoffs stat? In 2005, KC went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. In 2006, KC went 9-7 and made the playoffs. According to your playoffs statistic, Herm must have done a better coaching job in 2006 than Vermeil did in 2005. He coached so well that the rest of the AFC lost more games, allowing his team to make it in with a worse record. Herm coached so well that the Denver Broncos lost to the 49ers in overtime in week 17. Go Herm!I agree that Herm is great at getting a lot out of what he has, which is why I called him a master motivator. I also agree that he's really improved KC's defense, although you can't ignore the fact that Herm Edwards has presided over the death of KC's offense. If you don't think he's a great coach, though, then I don't see what the argument is- I feel like Edwards is a good coach, but really no better than a Coughlin, Del Rio, or Fox, just to name three guys whose fans were calling for their head this season. As such, I don't see why it's so irrational to call out Edwards, especially since KC had to actually GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS to acquire him.

 

[shadow2k]

I feel like Edwards is a good coach, but really no better than a Coughlin, Del Rio, or Fox, just to name three guys whose fans were calling for their head this season. As such, I don't see why it's so irrational to call out Edwards, especially since KC had to actually GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS to acquire him.

This is really the main point. I think at some point, most fans will call out the head coach of their favorite team. But with Herm, posters who don't give a rat's ### about the Chiefs will actually sit down and read his weekly presser in hopes of finding some gem of a comment they can take out of context and post on here.It's kind of creepy how obsessed some of them are.

You don't see weekly threads about how much any other HC sucks from posters who aren't fans of that team. But Herm had them with every loss last year...and sometimes even after wins. They seem to have mellowed out a bit this year, but that's only because they're waiting for the bottom to drop out. I mean, when half this site was predicting the Chiefs to win 4 games max...they probably don't want to pop out of the woodwork until the Chiefs at least aren't in first place anymore.

 

[Futeki]

I don't think Edwards is a great coach by any stretch of the imagination. I am a Chiefs fan, and I wasn't happy (nor dejected) when they gave up a 4th round pick for him. He isn't a very good game manager nor game planner. He does seem to be an excellent motivator. His other positive attribute is his apparent ability to get solid productivity immediately out of young guys.

Herm Edwards is an ideal fit for what the Chiefs currently need. It has been said before, the Chiefs don't rebuild. They had a monumental shift ahead of them to get young and get young fast -- without rebuilding. They are always competitive, but without somebody like Herm Edwards, the Chiefs would probably be forced into a rebuilding mode. I also like his influence on the first day draft choices so far. The Chiefs are drafting more for certain productivity (if there is such a thing) instead of chasing "upside". They really need this to stay highly competitive.

What I don't see is the Chiefs ever making it to a Super Bowl with him at the helm. With his prior history with the Chiefs (and Peterson) and what I see as continued "success" (7-9 in a terrible year, but 10-6 in a good year), the Chiefs won't be parting with him anytime soon. More upper half mediocrity.

But to the point -- a winning record and first place in the AFC West is impressive considering so many people made the completely unfounded "analysis" that the Chiefs were the worst team in football.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

As bad as I think this team is and I expect them to fade during the stretch, I want them to be a playoff team just so all the Herm haters continue to shut up.

I saw nothing but him making the Jets into a good team while he was there, even being some missed FGs away from a conference championship game. He made something out of nothing last year with that KC team, and if he does it again, guy has a Parcells like quality of maximizing mediocre talent.

 

[Routilla]

As bad as I think this team is and I expect them to fade during the stretch, I want them to be a playoff team just so all the Herm haters continue to shut up.

I saw nothing but him making the Jets into a good team while he was there, even being some missed FGs away from a conference championship game. He made something out of nothing last year with that KC team, and if he does it again, guy has a Parcells like quality of maximizing mediocre talent.

Jets' fans seem quiet, but I'm guessing it's because of Mangina's 1-6 record.

 

[majech]

Wow, you're great with stats. Too bad there is more to life than numbers and I'm an engineering student. Look at the QB injury debacles Herm dealt with while coaching the Jets. You think that had an affect on his record? The Chiefs went to the playoffs ONE time with Vermeil in 5 seasons, and they've gone one time with Herm in 1 season. Look at the Chiefs offensive talent during Vermeil's run. They were great with Green/Gonzo/Priest/LJ/ROAF/SHEILDS/Kennison. That team under Vermeil got REALLY old. The team Herm inherited was totally different. Only LJ and Gonzo are currently playing from that stellar bunch that vermeil had. I'm not saying Herm is a great coach, but I think he's gotten a lot out of what he's had. Just look at what he's done with the Chiefs defense. They were HORRIBLE and now they are tough. Go Chiefs!

Herm isn't the only one who's had to deal with injuries. John Fox lost Steve Smith for an entire season, and has had to deal with injuries to Delhomme, not to mention that debacle of a season where he practically had to start his 3rd string FB at RB. Del Rio has had a QB with tissue paper for ligaments. Also, you're getting on my case for misleading numbers and then you pull out the playoffs stat? In 2005, KC went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. In 2006, KC went 9-7 and made the playoffs. According to your playoffs statistic, Herm must have done a better coaching job in 2006 than Vermeil did in 2005. He coached so well that the rest of the AFC lost more games, allowing his team to make it in with a worse record. Herm coached so well that the Denver Broncos lost to the 49ers in overtime in week 17. Go Herm!I agree that Herm is great at getting a lot out of what he has, which is why I called him a master motivator. I also agree that he's really improved KC's defense, although you can't ignore the fact that Herm Edwards has presided over the death of KC's offense. If you don't think he's a great coach, though, then I don't see what the argument is- I feel like Edwards is a good coach, but really no better than a Coughlin, Del Rio, or Fox, just to name three guys whose fans were calling for their head this season. As such, I don't see why it's so irrational to call out Edwards, especially since KC had to actually GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS to acquire him.

With you line of thinking...Herm caused Roaf to get old, and Shields to get old, and T Green to get old...GO HERM. I'm not pulling out playoff stats, I'm answering your question, and it has to do with playoffs. It doesn't seem to me that Del Rio is really on the hot seat, but I'll run with it. Carolina and J'Ville did not make the playoffs last year, despite playing in a weak NFC. The Giants did, but were 0.500 and were fading at the end by losing 6 of their final 8 games. The Chiefs, on the other hand, were a playoffoff team in the very tough AFC and had a very good division record (4-2). Considering that Herm took over a team that have only made the playoffs once in the previous 5 seasons (maybe more), why should Herm be on the hot season, other than the fact the YOU don't like him?

 

[Routilla]

Wow, you're great with stats. Too bad there is more to life than numbers and I'm an engineering student. Look at the QB injury debacles Herm dealt with while coaching the Jets. You think that had an affect on his record? The Chiefs went to the playoffs ONE time with Vermeil in 5 seasons, and they've gone one time with Herm in 1 season. Look at the Chiefs offensive talent during Vermeil's run. They were great with Green/Gonzo/Priest/LJ/ROAF/SHEILDS/Kennison. That team under Vermeil got REALLY old. The team Herm inherited was totally different. Only LJ and Gonzo are currently playing from that stellar bunch that vermeil had.

I'm not saying Herm is a great coach, but I think he's gotten a lot out of what he's had. Just look at what he's done with the Chiefs defense. They were HORRIBLE and now they are tough. Go Chiefs!

Herm isn't the only one who's had to deal with injuries. John Fox lost Steve Smith for an entire season, and has had to deal with injuries to Delhomme, not to mention that debacle of a season where he practically had to start his 3rd string FB at RB. Del Rio has had a QB with tissue paper for ligaments. Also, you're getting on my case for misleading numbers and then you pull out the playoffs stat? In 2005, KC went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. In 2006, KC went 9-7 and made the playoffs. According to your playoffs statistic, Herm must have done a better coaching job in 2006 than Vermeil did in 2005. He coached so well that the rest of the AFC lost more games, allowing his team to make it in with a worse record. Herm coached so well that the Denver Broncos lost to the 49ers in overtime in week 17. Go Herm!I agree that Herm is great at getting a lot out of what he has, which is why I called him a master motivator. I also agree that he's really improved KC's defense, although you can't ignore the fact that Herm Edwards has presided over the death of KC's offense. If you don't think he's a great coach, though, then I don't see what the argument is- I feel like Edwards is a good coach, but really no better than a Coughlin, Del Rio, or Fox, just to name three guys whose fans were calling for their head this season. As such, I don't see why it's so irrational to call out Edwards, especially since KC had to actually GIVE UP DRAFT PICKS to acquire him.

With you line of thinking...Herm caused Roaf to get old, and Shields to get old, and T Green to get old...GO HERM. I'm not pulling out playoff stats, I'm answering your question, and it has to do with playoffs. It doesn't seem to me that Del Rio is really on the hot seat, but I'll run with it. Carolina and J'Ville did not make the playoffs last year, despite playing in a weak NFC. The Giants did, but were 0.500 and were fading at the end by losing 6 of their final 8 games. The Chiefs, on the other hand, were a playoffoff team in the very tough AFC and had a very good division record (4-2). Considering that Herm took over a team that have only made the playoffs once in the previous 5 seasons (maybe more), why should Herm be on the hot season, other than the fact the YOU don't like him?

 

[pollardsvision]

good for herm.

 

[xmaise]

Herm is not a great coach. But he can get any team to 7-9 to 9-7. I'm pretty sure that would be his record whether he was coaching the Pats or the Rams.

I'm a massive Chiefs fan, and have been for 20+ years. I'm not a fan of Herm as a coach. Great guy (I met him a couple of times while in NY) but he is just way to conservative for me. The Chiefs have never been known to go out and run a bunch of trick plays, but the play calling lately has been so conservative and predictable. The defense has really stepped it up over the past two seasons, and are really clicking now. Jared Allen is a beast. Plain and simple. Dwayne Bowe has also had a great rookie season so far. The O-line is really depleted this season, and as a result LJ's numbers have gone down. He has rebounded the past couple of weeks, but without the big run he had against Oakland this week, his numbers would not have been pretty this week. I think the Chiefs need to mix up some of their play calling to hide some of the weaknesses in their O-line, otherwise that O-line is going to get crushed on each play and Huard is going to be more banged up then he currently is. Here's hoping to them being able to come back from their bye fresh, and ready to make a playoff run.

 

[SSOG]

With you line of thinking...Herm caused Roaf to get old, and Shields to get old, and T Green to get old...GO HERM. I'm not pulling out playoff stats, I'm answering your question, and it has to do with playoffs. It doesn't seem to me that Del Rio is really on the hot seat, but I'll run with it. Carolina and J'Ville did not make the playoffs last year, despite playing in a weak NFC. The Giants did, but were 0.500 and were fading at the end by losing 6 of their final 8 games. The Chiefs, on the other hand, were a playoffoff team in the very tough AFC and had a very good division record (4-2). Considering that Herm took over a team that have only made the playoffs once in the previous 5 seasons (maybe more), why should Herm be on the hot season, other than the fact the YOU don't like him?

Where did I say that Herm should be on the hot seat? I only said that he's only as good of a coach as three guys who ARE on the hot seat. And it may not seem to you that Del Rio was on the hot seat, but trust me, he most certainly was.KC did make the playoffs in the tough AFC last year. I'm not denying that. The year before, KC missed the playoffs despite a better record because they played in a TOUGHER AFC. KC quite clearly was worse last year than they were the year before. In two of the three years before Herm showed up, KC was better than it was last year. This is why your playoff stat is so silly. KC was better in 2003 than they were in 2006. KC was better in 2005 than they were in 2006. Regardless of any playoff stats you throw at me, KC was better before Herm showed up than they were after. Now, there are a lot of reasons for that that were outside of Herm's control (notably, the retirement of Shields), as well as a few reasons that were fully within Herm's control (notably, his lack of offensive expertise). But all of that's irrelevant, because all I'm trying to do is demonstrate how silly it is to use that playoff stat as if it demonstrates that KC was better under Herm than it was under Vermeil. Because it wasn't.

Now, let's be clear. I'm not a "Herm hater". I think he's a very middle-of-the-road coach. If I did coach rankings, he'd be right in a big mass in the middle, probably somewhere between #12 and #20. My point is that, while there are lots of other coaches in that tier whose detractors think they suck (Del Rio, Fox, etc), there don't seem to be any other coaches in that tier whose supporters think they're as great as Herm's supporters think he is. A lot of the criticism he gets is unfair, but every other middling coach gets the same unfair criticism. A lot of the praise that he receives, though, is also unfair, and those other coaches do NOT receive the same unfair praise.

 

[majech]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

 

[shadow2k]

KC quite clearly was worse last year than they were the year before.

I don't really think that this is completely true. While their offense was worse, their were many reasons for that. When your QB gets knocked out for half the season, that's going to have an effect. But their defense was much better, and is still improving. There's just been a shift in philosophy, and it's not going to come together overnight. Instead of building up the offense and plugging in free agents on Defense that don't fit the system, their focusing on trying to build through the draft again, with a focus on D.It's really pretty similar to what Marty was doing back in the 90's. Draft well (they've already improved since Vermiel), stop signing washed up free agents, run the ball and play tough D. The only difference really, is that we're trying to develop a QB (Croyle) instead of signing an old SF QB.The team actually looks a lot like the old KC teams in the 90's. Two very good D Ends. Young safeties that make some amazing plays. Two good corners (although they're old at this point). Solid LB core with depth. Big strong RB. And not much in the way of a passing game (except for Bowe). And of course, Gonzalez is still here. I mean, when I compare the teams Marty went 13-3 with, this team isn't that different...but it didn't happen overnight with Marty either.I think Herms going in the right direction. I know most FF fans hate him because he isn't good for fantasy stats. But in the real NFL, he's building what looks like to me, a similar team to those old 13-3 runs Marty went on...only to lose 1st round playoff games to the Colts...again.

 

[BoltBacker]

KC quite clearly was worse last year than they were the year before.

I don't really think that this is completely true. While their offense was worse, their were many reasons for that. When your QB gets knocked out for half the season, that's going to have an effect. But their defense was much better, and is still improving. There's just been a shift in philosophy, and it's not going to come together overnight. Instead of building up the offense and plugging in free agents on Defense that don't fit the system, their focusing on trying to build through the draft again, with a focus on D.

Completely agree.Herm took over a team well past its prime with the key components retiring due to age/injury/both and got the team to the playoffs in the process.

 

[John Mamula]

Still don't get the irrational Herm hate in this place.

are we still on notice from ashcroft?

 

[Capella]

Still don't get the irrational Herm hate in this place.

are we still on notice from ashcroft?

Pretty sure he has my name written on his mirror, backwards in blood

 

[Capella]

As bad as I think this team is and I expect them to fade during the stretch, I want them to be a playoff team just so all the Herm haters continue to shut up. I saw nothing but him making the Jets into a good team while he was there, even being some missed FGs away from a conference championship game. He made something out of nothing last year with that KC team, and if he does it again, guy has a Parcells like quality of maximizing mediocre talent.

People keep knocking him for taking teams to 9-7 and 10-6.They fail to realize he has 5-11 talent.

 

[SSOG]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs. Can we all agree that all of those coaches are clearly and demonstrably better than Herm Edwards? If we can agree on that, then we've just agreed that Herm Edwards is the 10th best coach in the NFL, AT BEST. Which means if you think even two other coaches are better than Herm, you've just agreed with me that Herm is in the 12th-20th tier of coaches, which makes you every bit as much of a "Herm hater" as I am. Think about it- you've got guys like Marvin Lewis, John Gruden, Tom Coughlin, John Fox, Jack Del Rio, Eric Mangini, Sean Payton. If Herm is in the middle of that pack, you're a "Herm hater". And this isn't even counting the rookie coaches, either, or the out-of-work guys like Parcells, Cowher, or Schottenheimer (all of whom I'd take over Herm in a heartbeat).It's not silly to bring up the fact that Herm made the playoffs last year. It *IS* silly to compare that to how often KC made the playoffs before Herm got there, because KC was better before Herm got there, playoffs or no playoffs.

 

[BoltBacker]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs. Can we all agree that all of those coaches are clearly and demonstrably better than Herm Edwards? If we can agree on that, then we've just agreed that Herm Edwards is the 10th best coach in the NFL, AT BEST. Which means if you think even two other coaches are better than Herm, you've just agreed with me that Herm is in the 12th-20th tier of coaches

Actually, no. If all that were true we'd agree that he was the 12th best coach in the NFL and that's different that agreeing that he's might be 20th. You may tier them that way but that doesn't mean everyone else does.BBTDJFARBillickHolmgrenGrudenShannyHermGibbsLovieFoxPhilipsCoughlinDelRioLewis... is something like I'd tier them off the top of my head. That's #8-#13.... big difference than #12-#20. I don't think Herm has ever had a talent pool like any of the coaches I have tiered below him. I also didn't rank any coaches with less than 3 years of resume to go off of.

 

[shadow2k]

It *IS* silly to compare that to how often KC made the playoffs before Herm got there, because KC was better before Herm got there, playoffs or no playoffs.

If we judged Vermiel after the 7th game of his second year, he was 6-10 then 3-4 (finished 8-8).

 

[SSOG]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs. Can we all agree that all of those coaches are clearly and demonstrably better than Herm Edwards? If we can agree on that, then we've just agreed that Herm Edwards is the 10th best coach in the NFL, AT BEST. Which means if you think even two other coaches are better than Herm, you've just agreed with me that Herm is in the 12th-20th tier of coaches

Actually, no. If all that were true we'd agree that he was the 12th best coach in the NFL and that's different that agreeing that he's might be 20th. You may tier them that way but that doesn't mean everyone else does.BBTDJFARBillickHolmgrenGrudenShannyHermGibbsLovieFoxPhilipsCoughlinDelRioLewis... is something like I'd tier them off the top of my head. That's #8-#13.... big difference than #12-#20. I don't think Herm has ever had a talent pool like any of the coaches I have tiered below him. I also didn't rank any coaches with less than 3 years of resume to go off of.

So you rank him 9th out of 16. That's below average, but right in the middle of the pack, which is exactly where I had him ranked. The only reason he's higher numerically on your list than he is on mine is because he's 9-13 OUT OF SIXTEEN on yours and 12-20 OUT OF THIRTY TWO on mine. We both agree on one thing, though- he's middle of the pack, mediocrity at its finest, amazingly average.Again, why are so many people so rabid in defending a coach who they admit is in the bottom 50% of coaches with 3+ years of experience? Herm is a nice coach, but he's really not anything special (and outside of Phillips, Herm hasn't shown anywhere NEAR as much as any of the coaches you've tiered him with. Shanny, Gibbs, Smith, and Fox all have at least one SB appearance, and a total of 7 between them, to go with a significantly better career winning percentages).

 

[SSOG]

It *IS* silly to compare that to how often KC made the playoffs before Herm got there, because KC was better before Herm got there, playoffs or no playoffs.

If we judged Vermiel after the 7th game of his second year, he was 6-10 then 3-4 (finished 8-8).

But Vermeil didn't have a losing career record when he went to KC. Vermeil had coached a team to a better record than 10-6 before he went to KC. Vermeil had two superbowl appearances on his resume (one of them a victory). Vermeil had already completed two of the more dramatic franchise turnarounds in NFL history. Yes, Vermeil got much more slack than Edwards. Vermeil had EARNED every inch of that slack. What has Edwards done to DESERVE the benefit of the doubt that was granted Vermeil?

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs. Can we all agree that all of those coaches are clearly and demonstrably better than Herm Edwards? If we can agree on that, then we've just agreed that Herm Edwards is the 10th best coach in the NFL, AT BEST. Which means if you think even two other coaches are better than Herm, you've just agreed with me that Herm is in the 12th-20th tier of coaches

Actually, no. If all that were true we'd agree that he was the 12th best coach in the NFL and that's different that agreeing that he's might be 20th. You may tier them that way but that doesn't mean everyone else does.BBTDJFARBillickHolmgrenGrudenShannyHermGibbsLovieFoxPhilipsCoughlinDelRioLewis... is something like I'd tier them off the top of my head. That's #8-#13.... big difference than #12-#20. I don't think Herm has ever had a talent pool like any of the coaches I have tiered below him. I also didn't rank any coaches with less than 3 years of resume to go off of.

So you rank him 9th out of 16. That's below average, but right in the middle of the pack, which is exactly where I had him ranked. The only reason he's higher numerically on your list than he is on mine is because he's 9-13 OUT OF SIXTEEN on yours and 12-20 OUT OF THIRTY TWO on mine. We both agree on one thing, though- he's middle of the pack, mediocrity at its finest, amazingly average.Again, why are so many people so rabid in defending a coach who they admit is in the bottom 50% of coaches with 3+ years of experience? Herm is a nice coach, but he's really not anything special (and outside of Phillips, Herm hasn't shown anywhere NEAR as much as any of the coaches you've tiered him with. Shanny, Gibbs, Smith, and Fox all have at least one SB appearance, and a total of 7 between them, to go with a significantly better career winning percentages).

I have read all these posts and don't see anyone sayng Herm is a great coach. Alot of people pointing out that people were saying Herm was THE WORST coach out there but I don't think anyone thinks his is in the upper tier of coaches. You two seem to be arguing over nothing. you say he is average maybe the bottom part of the average teir and the other guy is saying he is towards the upper part of the average tier.I think what we all agree on this that everyone is happy that the Jets are 1-6 and we don't have to read as many posts from the Jets fans who act like Herm shot their dog.ETA pretty funny seeing a Charger fan and a Bronco fan arguing if Herm is worthless or not

 

[SSOG]

I have read all these posts and don't see anyone sayng Herm is a great coach. Alot of people pointing out that people were saying Herm was THE WORST coach out there but I don't think anyone thinks his is in the upper tier of coaches. You two seem to be arguing over nothing. you say he is average maybe the bottom part of the average teir and the other guy is saying he is towards the upper part of the average tier.I think what we all agree on this that everyone is happy that the Jets are 1-6 and we don't have to read as many posts from the Jets fans who act like Herm shot their dog.ETA pretty funny seeing a Charger fan and a Bronco fan arguing if Herm is worthless or not

I know that he and I agree. The only reason I'm still arguing is because I was called a "Herm hater", when I'm really not. I think that I think he's as good as everyone else thinks he is.

 

[TinHat]

 

[BoltBacker]

Silly to bring up the fact that a coach took his team to the playoffs? Hmm, I guess in my world I measure progress on measurable not "I think they were better that year than they were this year." Chiefs are 4-3, leading their division, and could make the playoffs...AGAIN. Have fun attacking Herm even though you're "not a Herm hater." LOL

Bill Belichick, Mike Shanahan, Tony Dungy, Brian Billick, Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Holmgren, Joe Gibbs. Can we all agree that all of those coaches are clearly and demonstrably better than Herm Edwards? If we can agree on that, then we've just agreed that Herm Edwards is the 10th best coach in the NFL, AT BEST. Which means if you think even two other coaches are better than Herm, you've just agreed with me that Herm is in the 12th-20th tier of coaches

Actually, no. If all that were true we'd agree that he was the 12th best coach in the NFL and that's different that agreeing that he's might be 20th. You may tier them that way but that doesn't mean everyone else does.BBTDJFARBillickHolmgrenGrudenShannyHermGibbsLovieFoxPhilipsCoughlinDelRioLewis... is something like I'd tier them off the top of my head. That's #8-#13.... big difference than #12-#20. I don't think Herm has ever had a talent pool like any of the coaches I have tiered below him. I also didn't rank any coaches with less than 3 years of resume to go off of.

So you rank him 9th out of 16. That's below average, but right in the middle of the pack, which is exactly where I had him ranked. The only reason he's higher numerically on your list than he is on mine is because he's 9-13 OUT OF SIXTEEN on yours and 12-20 OUT OF THIRTY TWO on mine. We both agree on one thing, though- he's middle of the pack, mediocrity at its finest, amazingly average.Again, why are so many people so rabid in defending a coach who they admit is in the bottom 50% of coaches with 3+ years of experience? Herm is a nice coach, but he's really not anything special (and outside of Phillips, Herm hasn't shown anywhere NEAR as much as any of the coaches you've tiered him with. Shanny, Gibbs, Smith, and Fox all have at least one SB appearance, and a total of 7 between them, to go with a significantly better career winning percentages).

Are you being serious? You actually need me to list the 32 HC's in the NFL to realize that when I'm saying Herm should be ranked as high as #8/OUT OF 32 COACHES and that's different than being ranked #20/OUT OF 32 NFL HEAD COACHES?For the record, every coach I have Herm tiered with has done more.... WITH more. Philips is the only other coach to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. It's a real coincidence that when he's coaching a team in DAL that has a lot more talent than the one he coached in BUF he suddenly is coaching a lot better! A whole lot of coaches seem to be given credit/blame for being good/bad GM's in the shark pool lately.Have another Coors on me.

 

[shadow2k]

It *IS* silly to compare that to how often KC made the playoffs before Herm got there, because KC was better before Herm got there, playoffs or no playoffs.

If we judged Vermiel after the 7th game of his second year, he was 6-10 then 3-4 (finished 8-8).

But Vermeil didn't have a losing career record when he went to KC. Vermeil had coached a team to a better record than 10-6 before he went to KC. Vermeil had two superbowl appearances on his resume (one of them a victory). Vermeil had already completed two of the more dramatic franchise turnarounds in NFL history. Yes, Vermeil got much more slack than Edwards. Vermeil had EARNED every inch of that slack. What has Edwards done to DESERVE the benefit of the doubt that was granted Vermeil?

Why does Herm need slack?He took the Jets to the playoffs three times in five years, 2-3 record. What was Vermeil doing with the Chiefs? One playoff appearance during that same exact time span, 0-1. Most would say KC had the superior talent during that timespan. Herm has actually won a playoff game this decade, with arguably inferior talent. Nobody in KC cared what Vermeil did in the 90's...or 20+ years ago for that matter. And honestly, I don't really care what Herm did in NY. I only care what he does here.Herm comes here and gets KC to the playoffs in year one, and has them alone in first place almost halfway through year two. Why does he need the benefit of the doubt? Especially when you consider where most people had the Chiefs at this point in the season. 1-6? 2-5 if they were lucky? Last place in the AFC West, if not the entire NFL?If Herm just keeps sucking like this for the rest of the year, he could end up being talked about as coach of the year...not that I think he'd deserve it. But he'd at least deserve to be mentioned just based on how much better the Chiefs performed than expected.

 

[Routilla]

It *IS* silly to compare that to how often KC made the playoffs before Herm got there, because KC was better before Herm got there, playoffs or no playoffs.

If we judged Vermiel after the 7th game of his second year, he was 6-10 then 3-4 (finished 8-8).

But Vermeil didn't have a losing career record when he went to KC. Vermeil had coached a team to a better record than 10-6 before he went to KC. Vermeil had two superbowl appearances on his resume (one of them a victory). Vermeil had already completed two of the more dramatic franchise turnarounds in NFL history. Yes, Vermeil got much more slack than Edwards. Vermeil had EARNED every inch of that slack. What has Edwards done to DESERVE the benefit of the doubt that was granted Vermeil?

Why does Herm need slack?He took the Jets to the playoffs three times in five years, 2-3 record. What was Vermeil doing with the Chiefs? One playoff appearance during that same exact time span, 0-1. Most would say KC had the superior talent during that timespan. Herm has actually won a playoff game this decade, with arguably inferior talent. Nobody in KC cared what Vermeil did in the 90's...or 20+ years ago for that matter. And honestly, I don't really care what Herm did in NY. I only care what he does here.Herm comes here and gets KC to the playoffs in year one, and has them alone in first place almost halfway through year two. Why does he need the benefit of the doubt? Especially when you consider where most people had the Chiefs at this point in the season. 1-6? 2-5 if they were lucky? Last place in the AFC West, if not the entire NFL?If Herm just keeps sucking like this for the rest of the year, he could end up being talked about as coach of the year...not that I think he'd deserve it. But he'd at least deserve to be mentioned just based on how much better the Chiefs performed than expected.

The only slack I see is offered as a weak argument from the anti-KC crowd. These people need to just accept the fact that they missed this one by a lot. All the doom and gloom talk was just a hoax. It's OK to admit it when you're wrong, it builds character and credibility.