Keeper league question (1 Viewer)

[N'wahlins Hope]

There's been some debate in our league lately over something that came up over what players we can keep from last season. The rules we set last year state we can keep a max two players, but not from the same position. The team keeping that player would lose the same draft pick this year as that player was picked last year. When we set that rule, we failed to realize what would happen if someone wanted to keep two players drafted in the same round. So here comes the issue. One of our players wants to keep Peyton Manning, whom he acquired from a trade, and Willis McGahee. Both players were picked in the first round last year. He says he should be able to keep those two players and only lose his first and second round picks.

Some league players have chimed in with disapproval of this move, saying him only losing a first and second rounder puts him on the same level as someone who kept a first and second rounder and that we shouldn't be changing the rules this late in the game. I will suggest if someone wants to keep two first rounders, they must give up a 1st, 2nd and 17th (the last round in this year's draft). You guys have any thoughts. Keep in mind that if someone wanted to keep two undrafted players, they would lose a 16th and 17th round pick, so in that case it would work against them.

 

[Capt Hook]

Since the situation that exists with this player is NOT covered by your rules, I think your only choice would to be vote on a rule modification (NOT on the specifc instance). If everyone in the league wants to penalize themselves in the future just to hurt this guy no, so be it.

So essentially that would be that in addition to not keeping two players from the same position, you can't keep two from the same round picked.

 

[Snotbubbles]

The rules we set last year state we can keep a max two players, but not from the same position. The team keeping that player would lose the same draft pick this year as that player was picked last year.

Your rules implicitly require that in order to keep a player you must have the necessary compensation in order to keep that player. In this instance, the necessary compensation is draft picks. Thus I would argue that the above team owner, in order to keep two players from the same round MUST HAVE two draft picks in that round, otherwise he cannot keep both players.EDIT: Therefore, he cannot keep both Manning and McGahee. It sucks but you shouldn't create rules as you go along (unless you rules say that a 2nd and a 17th are equivalent to a 1st).Also, your league should make it explicit what to do in this situation for the future.

 

[thayman]

The rules we set last year state we can keep a max two players, but not from the same position. The team keeping that player would lose the same draft pick this year as that player was picked last year.

Your rules implicitly require that in order to keep a player you must have the necessary compensation in order to keep that player. In this instance, the necessary compensation is draft picks. Thus I would argue that the above team owner, in order to keep two players from the same round MUST HAVE two draft picks in that round, otherwise he cannot keep both players.

EDIT: Therefore, he cannot keep both Manning and McGahee. It sucks but you shouldn't create rules as you go along (unless you rules say that a 2nd and a 17th are equivalent to a 1st).

Also, your league should make it explicit what to do in this situation for the future.

I agree....From what you said it sounds like this guy would need one 1st round pick to cover the protection of Peyton, and another 1st round pick to protect McGahee.

 

[Bulldog96]

Personally, I think a 1st and 2nd is fair compensation. How much of a difference does it really make? He's keeping 2 players, and losing his first 2 picks. He sits out until the 3rd round... seems fair to me.

Throwing away a 17th RD pick means nothing in this case. I'd up the ante to at least a 10th if that's the route you choose.

Overall a 1st and 2nd is fair IMHO... they're both mid to low 1st rounders anyway.

Good luck

 

[broncofan13000]

Personally, I think a 1st and 2nd is fair compensation. How much of a difference does it really make? He's keeping 2 players, and losing his first 2 picks. He sits out until the 3rd round... seems fair to me.

Throwing away a 17th RD pick means nothing in this case. I'd up the ante to at least a 10th if that's the route you choose.

Overall a 1st and 2nd is fair IMHO... they're both mid to low 1st rounders anyway.

Good luck

i agree.

 

[Cixelsyd]

Since your rules say the same round, then another "out" for him may be to try and trade for another 1st rounder... and it is a big deal... would anyone trade away there first rounder for a second rounder straight up??? not even at the turn, you'd want something in return...

so he'd need to work a deal out with another owner for their first round pick... which sounds like it will be hard as many will probally be keeping their first rounder....

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Good thoughts in here.

Unfortunately you have to make a ruling.

Always ALWAYS go back to your rules and read them. Look for ANYTHING there to use as a basis for the ruling. "Must have the compensation" would mean he can't keep both - pretty cut and dry.

If you can't find something, make the decision and stick to it.

Then, and only then, change the rules to cover this next time.

Finally, a suggestion:

Use a draft pick calculator (like THIS) to figure out adequate compensation, i.e. a 2nd + X = a 1st.

Use his existing 2nd and his existing first to solve for X. Round up to his closest pick greater than X.

For example:

Pick 1.05 (#5) = Picks #20 (2.08) and #49 (5.01).

You should penalize him his 4th rounder plus the 1st and 2nd in this case.

 

[toppshelff]

What he says. Agree completely, only resolution.

In the NFL, you can't trade a draft pick to another team unless you've got it. He will have to give up two first round picks to keep those two players.

Also agree that you might want to vote to change the rule in the future.

 

[Marvin88]

Personally, I think a 1st and 2nd is fair compensation. How much of a difference does it really make? He's keeping 2 players, and losing his first 2 picks. He sits out until the 3rd round... seems fair to me.

Throwing away a 17th RD pick means nothing in this case. I'd up the ante to at least a 10th if that's the route you choose.

Overall a 1st and 2nd is fair IMHO... they're both mid to low 1st rounders anyway.

Good luck

Yeah...this guy is already behind the eight ball with Manning and MaGahee as keepers. Piling on!

 

[Warhogs]

The rules we set last year state we can keep a max two players, but not from the same position. The team keeping that player would lose the same draft pick this year as that player was picked last year.

Your rules implicitly require that in order to keep a player you must have the necessary compensation in order to keep that player. In this instance, the necessary compensation is draft picks. Thus I would argue that the above team owner, in order to keep two players from the same round MUST HAVE two draft picks in that round, otherwise he cannot keep both players.

EDIT: Therefore, he cannot keep both Manning and McGahee. It sucks but you shouldn't create rules as you go along (unless you rules say that a 2nd and a 17th are equivalent to a 1st).

Also, your league should make it explicit what to do in this situation for the future.

I agree with snotbubbles here. He does not have 2 round 1 picks so he can only keep one unless he would trade his 2nd rounder and another pick or something like that to aquire another teams round 1 pick. You should certainly look at the rule and vote on modifying it if you wish but you need to apply the rule as listed this season.

 

[tkoffl]

What he says. Agree completely, only resolution.

In the NFL, you can't trade a draft pick to another team unless you've got it. He will have to give up two first round picks to keep those two players.

Also agree that you might want to vote to change the rule in the future.

I agree.However, the possible rule change should not take effect until the after the 2006 season is complete.

1) Stick with the rule as written. 1st round draft pick for each 1st rounder kept.

2) Vote on any rule changes before this year’s draft, so everyone can draft with the knowledge of how the keepers system will work next season. Fair to all.

3) Rule changes go into effect after the 2006 season is over.

 

[faulkfan]

Now we know why so many people become lawyers. The letter of the law isn't always explicit as we think when we first put it on paper.

I hate to cause the guy to lose out on keeping Peyton or McGahee, but in this case I certainly have to agree with the argument that you can't give up what you don't have (in this case, 2 first round picks). Even a package of picks isn't fair because it is an arbitrary rule made specialy for this situation.

I do think that it would be fine if he can get another 1st round pick through a trade and then use it to keep the extra player.

Good luck keeping the peace on this one.