Kevin Jones strategy talk (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

 

[EdwardCat]

Bench him. He played little to no role in the passing game today and the offensive line can't open holes for him. He's facing a tough run defense the rest of the way. Time to bench this 'stud'.

 

[timschochet]

Bench him. He played little to no role in the passing game today and the offensive line can't open holes for him. He's facing a tough run defense the rest of the way. Time to bench this 'stud'.

I'm not sure the offensive line can't open holes for him. How many opportunities did they have, anyway? 11 carries for the game? My grandmother gets more carries than that.

 

[EdwardCat]

Bench him. He played little to no role in the passing game today and the offensive line can't open holes for him. He's facing a tough run defense the rest of the way. Time to bench this 'stud'.

I'm not sure the offensive line can't open holes for him. How many opportunities did they have, anyway? 11 carries for the game? My grandmother gets more carries than that.

He had 25 yards on those 11 carries. He wasn't effective. He has 21 yards on his last 15 carries. So either he's a terrible RB or the offensive line can't open holes for him. I don't think he's a terrible RB.

 

[timschochet]

Bench him. He played little to no role in the passing game today and the offensive line can't open holes for him. He's facing a tough run defense the rest of the way. Time to bench this 'stud'.

I'm not sure the offensive line can't open holes for him. How many opportunities did they have, anyway? 11 carries for the game? My grandmother gets more carries than that.

He had 25 yards on those 11 carries. He wasn't effective. He has 21 yards on his last 15 carries. So either he's a terrible RB or the offensive line can't open holes for him. I don't think he's a terrible RB.

Well, you may have a point there. I just hate benching this guy after I was so patient with him on the bench for so many weeks. But I just can't afford this crap anymore. Does anyone else have an opinion?

 

[Das Boot]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

 

[sho nuff]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

2 games.KJ not used much in both of those games.

2 Lions losses.

Maybe the coach (as has been said in the past before with how he misused Faulk at times) is an idiot.

 

[PatsWillWin]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

2 games.KJ not used much in both of those games.

2 Lions losses.

Maybe the coach (as has been said in the past before with how he misused Faulk at times) is an idiot.

Clearly the number of carries by Kevin Jones is the only relevant factor in these two games.Well done detective.

 

[timschochet]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

What is that supposed to mean? I hate these "the coach knows more than you" posts. Am I supposed to be in awe of Mike Martz? If Jones was hurt, that would be one thing, but he looked fine to me. And this talk of resting him for Thursday is total #####. The Lions aren't that good to rest players, they need to win now.Two responses I hate the most:

1. The coach knows more than you.

2. The coach doesn't care about your FF team.

these comments are excuses by people who have no intelligent opinion of their own but just want to rip you. They offer nothing to the conversation.

 

[UncleZen]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

2 games.KJ not used much in both of those games.

2 Lions losses.

Maybe the coach (as has been said in the past before with how he misused Faulk at times) is an idiot.

 

[timschochet]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

2 games.KJ not used much in both of those games.

2 Lions losses.

Maybe the coach (as has been said in the past before with how he misused Faulk at times) is an idiot.

It's pretty clear he hasn't used him right. The main question is, will Martz figure this out in time for FF playoffs?

 

[Das Boot]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

2 games.KJ not used much in both of those games.

2 Lions losses.

Maybe the coach (as has been said in the past before with how he misused Faulk at times) is an idiot.

Could be... but Detroit won a lot of games before KJ was back too. So I'd say there's a decent chance Detroit's losses aren't directly correlated to KJ's use.I do think it makes sense to wonder why KJ isn't being used as much as might seem reasonable.

To me it suggests his foot is sorer than we realize.

 

[timschochet]

Here's Detroit's schedule the rest of the way:

12 GB

13 @Min

14 Dal

15 @SD

16 KC

This is pretty tough. If Martz is committed to 15-20 carries plus getting KJ involved in the passing game, then it's worth keeping him in as a weekly starter. If not, I don't see it...

 

[BusterTBronco]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound

Your reasoning was not sound. Kevin Jones has not been an "elite" fantasy back for almost three years now. He is hurt, injury prone, and the Lions are averse to running the football.

 

[Das Boot]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound: like the Colts, the Lions would force teams to play their safeties back, opening up plenty of running room. Even though the Lions were a pass first team, so long as Jones got 15-20 carries and some receptions he'd be fine, especially in PPR leagues.

Obviously, I was wrong. I did not count on the stupidity of Mike Martz. Jones had the first 4 carries of the game, and looked very effective. After that, in what was a close game the entire way, KJ only had 7 more carries. 11 total! He was not hurt. I am at a loss to explain this. that's two games in a row with very few carries (not coincidentally, two losses for Detroit.)

Consistency is everything. I can't afford to wait for KJ to have one great game, followed by what might be more of this kind of effort in weeks 14-16 when it matters. Let me know your thoughts, please. Do you think we see more of KJ the rest of the way forward? Or is it time to bench him?

Maybe the coach knows more about KJ's situation than FF players?

What is that supposed to mean? I hate these "the coach knows more than you" posts. Am I supposed to be in awe of Mike Martz? If Jones was hurt, that would be one thing, but he looked fine to me. And this talk of resting him for Thursday is total #####. The Lions aren't that good to rest players, they need to win now.Two responses I hate the most:

1. The coach knows more than you.

2. The coach doesn't care about your FF team.

these comments are excuses by people who have no intelligent opinion of their own but just want to rip you. They offer nothing to the conversation.

And not to rip you, but I just shake my head when fans honestly believe they know more than the coach does about his team or a specific player.I think there's more than a reasonable chance that the Lion's coaches know details about their team and players that fans don't know, and are basing their decisions on that "inside" info.

And since we're on a FF board, many of the criticisms seen about a coach are made from an FF-centric point of view. The coach, meantime, really doesn't care about anyone's FF team.

 

[timschochet]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound

Your reasoning was not sound. Kevin Jones has not been an "elite" fantasy back for almost three years now. He is hurt, injury prone, and the Lions are averse to running the football.

Ouch. OK dude, you know how to rub it in, don't you?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound

Your reasoning was not sound. Kevin Jones has not been an "elite" fantasy back for almost three years now. He is hurt, injury prone, and the Lions are averse to running the football.

I disagree. I think his reasoning was sound in a PPR. Jones is a big part of the passing game, he's the goal-line back (and the Lions do run it in the red zone), the team is competitive and their defense isn't world-class. Adding the running game into the mix would make sense to keep the pressure off Kitna, and Jones is a very capable back. Is Jones a top-five NFL back? Nope. But top-five fantasy-wise? I think there was a good case to be made for it at the time.

 

[diggler]

top 5 was too ambitious, but the way he played in his first couple of games starting, it was reasonable to think top 10. i traded marvin harrison for him about 3 weeks ago, and while it hasn't hurt me yet, I have been disappointed in KJ. He was supposed to be my rock-solid RB2, but instead I'm platooning him with Ryan Grant and Kenny Watson. Now all I need is for Marvin to come back in week 13 and go absolutely bananas during the fantasy playoffs.

 

[az_prof]

A few weeks ago, I predicted he'd be a top 5 RB the rest of the way. My reasoning was sound

Your reasoning was not sound. Kevin Jones has not been an "elite" fantasy back for almost three years now. He is hurt, injury prone, and the Lions are averse to running the football.

Your facts are not accurate. Last year Kevin Jones was a top 3 back in PPR leagues before his injury. That made him an elite back. If you are going to say his injury degates his accomplishment then there are a lot of other highly touted elite backs you would have to negate this year. Injury aside, he has been an elite back two out of three years before this one and he still could be this year too.

 

[EdwardCat]

Here's Detroit's schedule the rest of the way:12 GB 13 @Min 14 Dal 15 @SD 16 KC This is pretty tough. If Martz is committed to 15-20 carries plus getting KJ involved in the passing game, then it's worth keeping him in as a weekly starter. If not, I don't see it...

Clearly week 13 is a wash. Jones will be lucky to rush 8 times. All of these games will be difficult for him. It really doesn't even matter if he's facing an easy defense. I haven't seen them play the last two weeks. Given the stats KJ has put up rushing, I'd have to assume the offensive line isn't doing their job. Arizona was getting into the backfield as Jones was getting the ball. He did nothing with 11 carries against the Giants. Is it because they lack effective play calling for the run? Is it because they can't block? Is it because Jones isn't that good? Given how they've played recently, you can probably expect:GB - 10/34MIN - 5/7 1 TDDAL - 12/41SD - 9/26KC - 15/60 1 TDI've never seen a team so completely subjugate their run game.

 

[Rogi]

It doesn't look good for him. To be a starting RB and have such a small role and poor production is a concern to me. As mentioned earlier, he doesn't have favorable matchups coming up.

 

[toppshelff]

There was some pre-game discussion that they might limit KJ's carries so that he is still fresh for a quick Thursday game. I had thought that meant getting Duckett more involved, but apparently it meant throwing the ball every down.

Any chance that they run KJ like crazy on Thursday knowing he has almost a week and a half to recover?

 

[EdwardCat]

There was some pre-game discussion that they might limit KJ's carries so that he is still fresh for a quick Thursday game. I had thought that meant getting Duckett more involved, but apparently it meant throwing the ball every down.Any chance that they run KJ like crazy on Thursday knowing he has almost a week and a half to recover?

No. They will be passing like crazy to keep up with Favre. KJ will probably get 4 catches for 20-25 yards and around 50-60 total yards. Jones is a serious disappointment this year. Such a shame because he looked great right after he came back.

 

[W1cked]

The Lions came out running the ball on their first drive. I think 4 or 5 of his carries came on the first drive. Once they get behind, Martz feels as if he needs to scrap the run and throw, throw, throw. Kitna is getting killed or running for this life, and they can't keep the offense on the field. I thought Jones would have a bigger day running the ball and receiving than he did.

Bottom line is... when you play KJ you are at the mercy of what Martz wants to do.

 

[Mene]

The Lions came out running the ball on their first drive. I think 4 or 5 of his carries came on the first drive. Once they get behind, Martz feels as if he needs to scrap the run and throw, throw, throw. Kitna is getting killed or running for this life, and they can't keep the offense on the field. I thought Jones would have a bigger day running the ball and receiving than he did.

Bottom line is... when you play KJ you are at the mercy of what Martz wants to do.

That is it right there, same thing last year also. The Lions go down 7, Martz abandons the run completely. As a Homer, I was really excited when he came... but more and more I'm hoping someone offers him a HC job and gets him out of here. It's ridiculous the lack of balance in his scheme. Beyond a fantasy perspective, it's just painful to watch the offense become so predictable, and so easy to defend.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

The Lions came out running the ball on their first drive. I think 4 or 5 of his carries came on the first drive. Once they get behind, Martz feels as if he needs to scrap the run and throw, throw, throw. Kitna is getting killed or running for this life, and they can't keep the offense on the field. I thought Jones would have a bigger day running the ball and receiving than he did.

Bottom line is... when you play KJ you are at the mercy of what Martz wants to do.

That is it right there, same thing last year also. The Lions go down 7, Martz abandons the run completely. As a Homer, I was really excited when he came... but more and more I'm hoping someone offers him a HC job and gets him out of here. It's ridiculous the lack of balance in his scheme. Beyond a fantasy perspective, it's just painful to watch the offense become so predictable, and so easy to defend.

The play calling in the last 2 games has been atrocious and is a main reason we lost. After beginning the game with 4 consecutive runs, he only had 7 running plays the rest of the game. There is just no excuse for it.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I have been using him as flex as I still have it in my head that a RB is a better option then a WR no matter what, but I am starting to be concerned......I will most likely be sitting him the next 3 weeks as I do not like his matchups....

we can try to analyze what we think the Lions will do the rest of the year, but I'm not sure that's possible, plus the news of his foot being an issue after every game just gives me a bad vibe about his prospects for the rest of the year.....

to me this seems like one of those classic cases where we will be sitting around next year wondering where to draft KJ and we will be going through all the articles of him saying "yeah, I just never really was right last year after I came back, but this year I'm ready"....I think we are smack dab in the middle of that "I just never was right" period........

 

[detroitwhat]

i'm rolling with selvin instead now on.