Lance Armstrong is a 0 Time Winner of the Tour de France (1 Viewer)

[BassNBrew]

I disagree. Clemens maybe a handful of guys, heck there are arguably a handful of guys that perform at that level already. But there's nobody in the game that would equal Bonds' numbers even with all the PEDs in the world. Anyway, point is you can transform someone completely in a sport like cycling. Not so in sports that primarily test something other than endurance or speed or strength.

Bonds' game completely changed once he started juicing. Aaron pretty much equaled his numbers without the juice.

 

[msommer]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

 

[FUBAR]

It took a long time to get past the "Never failed a test" line of thinking. It will be an even longer time to get past the "Everyone else was doping so it was ok" line of thinking, but it will eventually happen.

Honestly, I'm still mostly there. a primary reason we don't like cheating is the unfair advantage people get by doing it. If "everyone is doing it", that unfair advantage is minimized.

But then, I truly don't care if adults choose to take PEDs. I don't want our kids doing it (for safety and health concerns) and they are more likely to do it if their heroes are using, but that's a different argument.

 

[FUBAR]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

gotta at least appreciate his honesty."If I was racing in 2015, no, I wouldn't do it again because I don't think you have to," he said.

"If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."

it was pervasive because everyone felt it was accepted, it was accepted in part because it was pervasive. Circular logic but for an individual at that time, it makes sense if you want to Win. Lance was just better at cheating than most people.

 

[cstu]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

gotta at least appreciate his honesty."If I was racing in 2015, no, I wouldn't do it again because I don't think you have to," he said.

"If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."

it was pervasive because everyone felt it was accepted, it was accepted in part because it was pervasive. Circular logic but for an individual at that time, it makes sense if you want to Win. Lance was just better at cheating than most people.

Lance is right, nobody was winning the TdF without cheating.

 

[chauncey]

So is Tom Brady going to get the same treatment as Lance by the public?

 

[culdeus]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

gotta at least appreciate his honesty."If I was racing in 2015, no, I wouldn't do it again because I don't think you have to," he said.

"If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."

it was pervasive because everyone felt it was accepted, it was accepted in part because it was pervasive. Circular logic but for an individual at that time, it makes sense if you want to Win. Lance was just better at cheating than most people.

Lance is right, nobody was winning the TdF without cheating.

Because without drugs nobody could finish it? I don't understand. It's not that hard a race that it requires drugs to finish. Several amateurs ride it every year for charity on the same day as the tour riders.

 

[jon_mx]

I think it was a great accomplishment and if Lance were not American, nobody ever would have pressed the issue and he would still be 7-time champ.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

gotta at least appreciate his honesty."If I was racing in 2015, no, I wouldn't do it again because I don't think you have to," he said.

"If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."

it was pervasive because everyone felt it was accepted, it was accepted in part because it was pervasive. Circular logic but for an individual at that time, it makes sense if you want to Win. Lance was just better at cheating than most people.

Lance is right, nobody was winning the TdF without cheating.

Because without drugs nobody could finish it? I don't understand. It's not that hard a race that it requires drugs to finish. Several amateurs ride it every year for charity on the same day as the tour riders.

I think he's just saying that anybody who was serious about winning it had to dope in an era when all the serious contenders were doping. That doesn't seem a crazy observation to me. Lance Armstrong didn't have the ability to ensure that everybody else stayed clean.

I don't think that absolves Armstrong for responsibility. Certainly not for acting like a gigantic ####### and attempting to ruin the lives of those who tried to tell the truth. But its still probably true.

 

[culdeus]

Lance Armstrong: "I should be forgiven now, but I would do it again"

because nothing makes people forgive more than being unrepentant...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cycling/30981609

gotta at least appreciate his honesty."If I was racing in 2015, no, I wouldn't do it again because I don't think you have to," he said.

"If you take me back to 1995, when doping was completely pervasive, I would probably do it again."

it was pervasive because everyone felt it was accepted, it was accepted in part because it was pervasive. Circular logic but for an individual at that time, it makes sense if you want to Win. Lance was just better at cheating than most people.

Lance is right, nobody was winning the TdF without cheating.

Because without drugs nobody could finish it? I don't understand. It's not that hard a race that it requires drugs to finish. Several amateurs ride it every year for charity on the same day as the tour riders.

I think he's just saying that anybody who was serious about winning it had to dope in an era when all the serious contenders were doping. That doesn't seem a crazy observation to me. Lance Armstrong didn't have the ability to ensure that everybody else stayed clean.

I don't think that absolves Armstrong for responsibility. Certainly not for acting like a gigantic ####### and attempting to ruin the lives of those who tried to tell the truth. But its still probably true.

He still took his doping to a level vastly over the rest of the group. You dope all these guys the same and he doesn't win 6. He just wasn't all that talented to begin with.

He was pack fodder before he got his doping tuned in post-cancer. I'd argue that cancer didn't just give him a cycling career because he cut weight it gave him a career because without the cancer story he would have been cut from USPS before he ever got a shot to get on the big doping programs.