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lawyerGuys: question on wage sex discrimination complaint from my wife (1 Viewer)

JFT Ben

Footballguy
This one I was specifically asked to tap the brainchild that is the FFA. My wife holds a strong grudge for past slights, and wanted me to get your thoughts.

Facts:

  • worked for a small company, maybe 15 total employees, in consulting, she's a licensed professional
  • was hired to start a satellite office, worked closely with the three owners on implementing strategic work goals
  • they found a strategic hire with a skill set and client list they liked, fairly similar to my wife's, but is unlicensed - only other employee at satellite office
  • new hire made about 14% more (call it $11,000), and was subordinate to my wife (wife was his direct supervisor)
  • wife feels it is gender discrimination, was pissed then, and left 8 months ago to go to a different firm
  • wants to know if legitimate cause and worth it to file a complaint, and go after wage difference
Equal Pay Act of 1963 supposed to abolish wage discrimination based on sex. Not a black and white issue. If felt strong enough, she'd have to file a discrimination charge with the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission (EEOC) before a private lawsuit within the next few months. We have two good lawyer friends that could help if we went that route.

Qualifiers are to meet a case:

1. Different wages are paid to employees of opposite sex (check)

2. Employees perform substantially equal work on jobs requiring equal skill, effort and responsibility (probably a check)

3. Jobs are performed under similar working conditions (check)

Honestly, sounds like a pain to me and not worth it, but 8 months later she's still ticked. Could get money back in the difference in pay, plus lawyer fees I guess is the upside.

Any LawyerGuys have thoughts?

 
Sounds like the new hire with his client list was a better negotiator for his compensation package

As asked above, did you wife ever bring this up to the owners and have a discussion on compensation?

 
Maybe this guy asked for a higher salary and got it because they really wanted him. Maybe your wife should have done the same? If this is a reason for a lawsuit then I am grateful to work in a field that pays on merit rather than gender.

 
As has been alluded to above, what if the new employee was able to negotiate a higher wage than your wife? Is the company expected to then offer your wife a raise as a result of that? Are they supposed to say "no" simply because your wife currently makes X amount of salary and he wants more? When your wife learned of this, did she try to negotiate a higher salary and was told no?

I'm definitely not a lawyer, but it would seem to me that if she never asked for more and they were hired separately, then I'm not seeing how this would be successful.

 
Sounds like a typical woman. Gets angry with you about something and then when asked what's wrong she says nothing. Then proceeds to give you the cold shoulder until you finally figure it out.

 
She can certainly file an EEOC claim, however, all the company has to do is demonstrate that there is a non-discriminatory reason for the difference in pay. As she opened the office and was the person's supervisor, those factors will weigh in her favor.

His client list and salary demands pre-employment is what they will argue...i.e. they were compelled to pay that much money to hire the individual they wanted.

It's a tough battle, but a low cost one. It is simple to initiate an EEOC claim without much cost.

 
Sounds like a typical woman. Gets angry with you about something and then when asked what's wrong she says nothing. Then proceeds to give you the cold shoulder until you finally figure it out.
HEY!!! Seriously though, how long does she stay mad at you when you leave the toilet seat up?

 
Sounds like the new hire with his client list was a better negotiator for his compensation package

As asked above, did you wife ever bring this up to the owners and have a discussion on compensation?
Yes, it was a point of contention between her and management/ownership.

 
She can certainly file an EEOC claim, however, all the company has to do is demonstrate that there is a non-discriminatory reason for the difference in pay. As she opened the office and was the person's supervisor, those factors will weigh in her favor.

His client list and salary demands pre-employment is what they will argue...i.e. they were compelled to pay that much money to hire the individual they wanted.

It's a tough battle, but a low cost one. It is simple to initiate an EEOC claim without much cost.
Thanks. it sounds like the complaint board moves it forward if there is justification. Thanks for the input IB.

 
Sounds like the other guy followed the average married dad's guide to health, wealth and a sexy marriage.

He got the better paying job and slept with your wife.

In all seriousness

Was the point of contention just related to additional salary or the thoughts of gender discrimination?

 
Being someone's supervisor does not necessarily equate to greater pay. Granted it varies by industry, but at the company I work for, it is not uncommon for some of the non-managerial staff with particular high demand skill sets to make a fair amount more than their supervisor.

 
Being someone's supervisor does not necessarily equate to greater pay. Granted it varies by industry, but at the company I work for, it is not uncommon for some of the non-managerial staff with particular high demand skill sets to make a fair amount more than their supervisor.
I bet most NFL quarterbacks make more than their coaches, fwiw.

 
She can certainly file an EEOC claim, however, all the company has to do is demonstrate that there is a non-discriminatory reason for the difference in pay. As she opened the office and was the person's supervisor, those factors will weigh in her favor.

His client list and salary demands pre-employment is what they will argue...i.e. they were compelled to pay that much money to hire the individual they wanted.

It's a tough battle, but a low cost one. It is simple to initiate an EEOC claim without much cost.
Thanks. it sounds like the complaint board moves it forward if there is justification. Thanks for the input IB.
I would peg the likelihood of the EEOC actually prosecuting her claim at about 0.1% (1 in 1000) based on the facts as you've recited them. Of course, even if the EEOC investigates and issues a no cause finding, she can still sue. In fact, if she's advancing an Equal Pay Act claim (as opposed to a Title VII gender discrimination claim), she doesn't need to file first with the EEOC. She can proceed directly to court with her suit. As for damages, how long did she work with the new hire before she quit?

 
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I know my company will pay each new hire as little in the pay range that they can to each new employee and it is all up to you and your skill to get started higher up into the pay band. Pay differences for same job are totally normal and different pay grades salary ranges overlap, so lower grade people can make more than higher grade. not sure what type of case she really has, if the company valued his book of business more than they did her licenses and experience.

 
Qualifiers are to meet a case:

1. Different wages are paid to employees of opposite sex

2. Employees perform substantially equal work on jobs requiring equal skill, effort and responsibility

3. Jobs are performed under similar working conditions
Damn, I should have sued my former employer. At my first job as a Staff Accountant they hired this girl about six months after I started. We shared an office and did the same job but one day I saw a copy of her offer letter and found out she made about 10% more than I did. At the time I just chalked it up to her doing a better job at negotiating her salary than I did, but now it appears I was discriminated against.
 
She can certainly file an EEOC claim, however, all the company has to do is demonstrate that there is a non-discriminatory reason for the difference in pay. As she opened the office and was the person's supervisor, those factors will weigh in her favor.

His client list and salary demands pre-employment is what they will argue...i.e. they were compelled to pay that much money to hire the individual they wanted.

It's a tough battle, but a low cost one. It is simple to initiate an EEOC claim without much cost.
Thanks. it sounds like the complaint board moves it forward if there is justification. Thanks for the input IB.
I would peg the likelihood of the EEOC actually prosecuting her claim at about 0.1% (1 in 1000) based on the facts as you've recited them. Of course, even if the EEOC investigates and issues a no cause finding, she can still sue. In fact, if she's advancing an Equal Pay Act claim (as opposed to a Title VII gender discrimination claim), she doesn't need to file first with the EEOC. She can proceed directly to court with her suit.As for damages, how long did she work with the new hire before she quit?
I agree that it is unlikely the EEOC actually advances her claim. They almost never do and not on the facts we've seen alone. That said, by filing a petition with the EEOC rather than going the 'direct-to-attorney' route, the employer will be asked to submit to mediation (they'll likely decline, but that would be a boon) and at least file a statement of position with the EEOC. The EEOC can and may investigate further if they feel there is information left out of the company's statement of position. You can and still do have the right to sue after the EEOC makes its determination (which in most cases is to make no determination dispositively either way).

The benefit to going the EEOC route first is that you can file the petition on your own, with no representation for little to no cost. The employer may submit to mediation and even if it doesn't, there is some level of discovery that is completed by the EEOC which will be available to your attorney should you move onto the next stage.

 
Qualifiers are to meet a case:

1. Different wages are paid to employees of opposite sex

2. Employees perform substantially equal work on jobs requiring equal skill, effort and responsibility

3. Jobs are performed under similar working conditions
Damn, I should have sued my former employer. At my first job as a Staff Accountant they hired this girl about six months after I started. We shared an office and did the same job but one day I saw a copy of her offer letter and found out she made about 10% more than I did. At the time I just chalked it up to her doing a better job at negotiating her salary than I did, but now it appears I was discriminated against.
Except the "qualifiers are to meet a case" statement isn't accurate.

At the end of the day, this sounds like a sales/marketing type of gig. If so, genitalia likely isn't terribly significant. The most important and valuable thing is the "client list". If you have a good one of those, you're valuable.

 
I always counsel clients that litigating based upon moral indignation (as opposed to economics) tends to be an expensive proposition.

What did your wife lose except for her pride? Is she paid better at her new job? What's the real monetary cost/loss to her?

These are the very sorts of questions a prospective attorney will be asking himself/herself when your wife walks into the office.

 
She can certainly file an EEOC claim, however, all the company has to do is demonstrate that there is a non-discriminatory reason for the difference in pay. As she opened the office and was the person's supervisor, those factors will weigh in her favor.

His client list and salary demands pre-employment is what they will argue...i.e. they were compelled to pay that much money to hire the individual they wanted.

It's a tough battle, but a low cost one. It is simple to initiate an EEOC claim without much cost.
Thanks. it sounds like the complaint board moves it forward if there is justification. Thanks for the input IB.
I would peg the likelihood of the EEOC actually prosecuting her claim at about 0.1% (1 in 1000) based on the facts as you've recited them. Of course, even if the EEOC investigates and issues a no cause finding, she can still sue. In fact, if she's advancing an Equal Pay Act claim (as opposed to a Title VII gender discrimination claim), she doesn't need to file first with the EEOC. She can proceed directly to court with her suit.As for damages, how long did she work with the new hire before she quit?
I agree that it is unlikely the EEOC actually advances her claim. They almost never do and not on the facts we've seen alone. That said, by filing a petition with the EEOC rather than going the 'direct-to-attorney' route, the employer will be asked to submit to mediation (they'll likely decline, but that would be a boon) and at least file a statement of position with the EEOC. The EEOC can and may investigate further if they feel there is information left out of the company's statement of position. You can and still do have the right to sue after the EEOC makes its determination (which in most cases is to make no determination dispositively either way). The benefit to going the EEOC route first is that you can file the petition on your own, with no representation for little to no cost. The employer may submit to mediation and even if it doesn't, there is some level of discovery that is completed by the EEOC which will be available to your attorney should you move onto the next stage.
You are correct in all respects. But the discovery from the employer is really not all that valuable in terms of litigating a case. It will be little more than a completely self-serving letter and some back-up documentation that you will automatically get at the outset of the case through required Rule 26 disclosures.

What going to the EEOC will do, however, is waste time. She has to file her EPA claim within two years, and filing with the EEOC doesn't toll the limitations period. She's been gone from her job 8 months. If the EEOC takes another 12-15 months to investigate (not unusual at all), she's now bled off all or most of her limitations period. But even if she is able to get her EPA lawsuit filed under the two year limitations period, it's possible that she may have eliminated the vast majority of her recoverable damages waiting for the EEOC. While the Lily Ledbetter Act provides that each discriminatory paycheck restarts the statute of limitations (as opposed to the underlying decision to hire the higher-paid guy, which would likely fall outside the statute), actual damages under the EPA is limited to the recovery of back pay for a period of up to two years prior to the filing of the EPA complaint (extended to three years upon a showing of willfulness, which is a relatively high burden). If she's filing her lawsuit in the 23rd month following her resignation, she may have eliminated all but a month of back pay damages. Because the EPA does not require the filing of an EEOC charge as an administrative prerequisite, I don't believe that the two-years of back pay damages in the lawsuit would relate back to the initial filing of the EEOC charge (I haven't handled that issue in any of my cases so I admittedly haven't researched it. Take this as a word of caution rather than gospel). Also keep in mind that compensatory and punitive damages are not available in an EPA suit, so preserving back pay damages is the paramount factor here (she can recover an additional amount equal to the back pay awarded as liquidated damages, but again this is entirely based on the amount of back pay that can be recovered).

Edit: Of course, for the reasons explained in the following post, it may not make financial sense to file a lawsuit, and she may have difficulty finding a lawyer to work on contingency given the limited damages.

As for a potential Title VII gender discrimination claim, she could file an EEOC charge on those grounds (and would be required to do so before filing a lawsuit) and that would toll the limitations period for the Title VII claim. The problem here is that she may not have standing to sue. Only employers with 15 or more employees in each of 20 or more calendar weeks in the current or preceding calendar year are covered employers under Title VII. JFT's statement that the company has "maybe 15 total" employees leaves that issue open to question.

 
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I always counsel clients that litigating based upon moral indignation (as opposed to economics) tends to be an expensive proposition.

What did your wife lose except for her pride? Is she paid better at her new job? What's the real monetary cost/loss to her?

These are the very sorts of questions a prospective attorney will be asking himself/herself when your wife walks into the office.
If she's looking to advance an Equal Pay Act claim, the prospects for a substantial economic recovery are grim. She's been gone 8 months. Let's say she files her lawsuit tomorrow. She's looking at 16 months of back pay damages if she is able to prevail, and that's assuming that she worked a full 16 months with him before quitting (I asked earlier how long she worked with him). If she worked a shorter period of time, damages will be reduced.. The guy made $11,000 more than her annually. So in a sixteen month period, back pay damages would total $14,666. Add in liquidated damages and the total potential recovery is $29,333. Even if she could somehow prove willfulness, and assuming that she worked with him for a full 28 months before quitting, absolute max damage award is $51,333 and that's after spending 2+ years litigating the case and going to trial. Now attorneys' fees are recoverable under the EPA, so perhaps a hungry plaintiff's lawyer may be willing to take the case for statutory damages, but that can only be recovered after a trial (and few of these cases ever actually go to trial). Most plaintiff's lawyers therefore look at the value of the case based on their contingency analysis, which takes settlement value into account. Given the extremely limited damages at issue in this case, I'd peg the settlement value at no more than $10,000. A lawyer cut of even 40% of a $10,000 settlement is not going to move the needle. And it makes no economic sense to pay the attorney on an hourly basis to pursue the case. She'll likely end up losing money.

 
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I always counsel clients that litigating based upon moral indignation (as opposed to economics) tends to be an expensive proposition.

What did your wife lose except for her pride? Is she paid better at her new job? What's the real monetary cost/loss to her?

These are the very sorts of questions a prospective attorney will be asking himself/herself when your wife walks into the office.
She'll likely end up losing money.
I agree with both of you. I don't think (based on what we've heard) that she's likely to get any meaningful recovery from either the EPA or Title VII. If she wants to roll the dice on either long shot, though, the EEOC claim can be self handled, might get to mediation and if nothing else causes her former employer to jump through some hoops and potentially re-examine practices. If we are looking for a heart-salve claim, this is the easier and less costly route - considering that neither is likely to bring a financial windfall.

(and bb, I agreed with everything in your prior post...spoken like a true plaintiff's attorney ;) )

 
It's been 8 months. Time to move on mentally, especially after switching jobs. If it's eating her this bad now just imagine how miserable she'll feel embroiled in a ton of legal bs and stress with no upside. It can be all consuming.

Commence choosing to be happy again. Today. She should be urged to vent and then to let it go. GL.

 
It's been 8 months. Time to move on mentally, especially after switching jobs. If it's eating her this bad now just imagine how miserable she'll feel embroiled in a ton of legal bs and stress with no upside. It can be all consuming.

Commence choosing to be happy again. Today. She should be urged to vent and then to let it go. GL.
 
In hindsight, that was probably too much effort since the guy never checked back in. I even did math. I hate doing math!

 
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