LB situation in Philly? Trotter CUT (1 Viewer)

[The Sandman]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

 

[The Sandman]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

 

[redman]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

It matters in Philly because of Johnson's scheme, which has the MLB play close to the line of scrimmage and shoot the gap probably more often than any other scheme does. A little body going through all of that traffic doesn't seem to have the same chance of success as a big body does, all other things being equal.

 

[stevegamer]

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 <_< )

Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

It matters in Philly because of Johnson's scheme, which has the MLB play close to the line of scrimmage and shoot the gap probably more often than any other scheme does. A little body going through all of that traffic doesn't seem to have the same chance of success as a big body does, all other things being equal.

The scheme is heavily run-blitz driven as well, so frequently Trot would shoot a gap looking to blow up a lead blocking FB, or something similar. He'd get some sacks that way, so whether or not Gaither can do that as well (I think not, but he does other things better) will matter.

 

[rascal]

trotter is on his way to Denver for a visit per denver and philly sports radio.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

I'm looking at Takeo Spikes as the biggest IDP winner here.

Trotter likely would have represented more tackles, which may or may not have happened.

While I think that Gaither is better longer term than Trot, I think the organization decided that Spikes has been SO good so far that they can afford to let Gaither start and really learn the role. This opens Spikes up to roam a little more towards the middle (and he's shown that SL to SL speed in preseason and camp) to make more plays.

I like Spikes' numbers to go up and Gaither to do less, statistically, than Trotter's previous expectations. However, Gaither out there on all 3 downs tempers that sentiment and so I'm correcting that statement to about on par with Trot's numbers. Spikes could be your leading tackler in Philly.

 

[The Sandman]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

It matters in Philly because of Johnson's scheme, which has the MLB play close to the line of scrimmage and shoot the gap probably more often than any other scheme does. A little body going through all of that traffic doesn't seem to have the same chance of success as a big body does, all other things being equal.

Im 100% aware of the Johnson scheme. But my post was in regard to sacks, and Trotter had 0 sacks last yr. In fact in 2005, he had 1 sack, and 1 sack in 2004. So Im not sure those 2 sacks in 3 seasons are relevant, which was my point.http://www.nfl.com/players/jeremiahtrotter...ts?id=TRO467199

 

[The Sandman]

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 )

Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

It matters in Philly because of Johnson's scheme, which has the MLB play close to the line of scrimmage and shoot the gap probably more often than any other scheme does. A little body going through all of that traffic doesn't seem to have the same chance of success as a big body does, all other things being equal.

The scheme is heavily run-blitz driven as well, so frequently Trot would shoot a gap looking to blow up a lead blocking FB, or something similar. He'd get some sacks that way, so whether or not Gaither can do that as well (I think not, but he does other things better) will matter.

Try ZERO sacks in 2006, and 2 in the last 3 yrs. Again, what does this have to do with my post about sacks. Come on people.

 

[Rozelle]

Tampa sure doesn't seem like a good fit for either.

Trotter to visit Bucs

 

[redman]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

It matters in Philly because of Johnson's scheme, which has the MLB play close to the line of scrimmage and shoot the gap probably more often than any other scheme does. A little body going through all of that traffic doesn't seem to have the same chance of success as a big body does, all other things being equal.

Im 100% aware of the Johnson scheme. But my post was in regard to sacks, and Trotter had 0 sacks last yr. In fact in 2005, he had 1 sack, and 1 sack in 2004. So Im not sure those 2 sacks in 3 seasons are relevant, which was my point.http://www.nfl.com/players/jeremiahtrotter...ts?id=TRO467199

You're actually correct in that I mentioned sacks, which was an error. The better way of saying it is, as mentioned above, in reference to run blitzes and tackles behind the line of scrimmage. My mistake on that one.

 

[Keg]

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Finally, Gaither has huge potential here. Trotter, without the sideline-to-sideline range and coverage skill that Gaither has, had four 100 plus solo tackle seasons as the every down linebacker in Johnson's scheme. He had mulitple sacks and coverage plays when he got snaps in the nickel. Granted, he never had a WLB like Spikes alongside, but there's all sorts of potential here. I've had Gaither in the 30s all offseason in anticipation of this move and will move him into mid LB2 territory at minimum in my next rankings update tonight. Gaither projected to 90 plus solos over a full season from the weak side based on 2006 numbers with a few big plays of his own. Unless he can't hold up over a full season in the middle, he'll better those numbers inside.

The only thing I'd add to this is that the one area in which Gaither may be inferior to Trotter, even last year's version of Trotter, was in run blitzing. Trotter excelled at shooting gaps and blowing up plays, something that his size greatly assisted. (This was a big part of the reason why Trotter looked so poor in Marvin Lewis' idiotic read-and-react scheme in Washington in 2002 ) Gaither is longer and leaner and much lighter than Trotter, so I'm not counting on as many sacks from him.

can you name any starting MLBs that are bigger then trotter(262 lbs)

Urlacher is 260 lbs, at 6'4 and he is one of the better blitzing MLB in a 4-3 D. Not sure what size has to do with blitzing. Trotter wasnt a sack master in the first place. Sacks generally come from the OLB position if a LB is blitzing, unless the team is running a 3-4. And Trotter isnt a starting MLB anymore, so what difference does it make if there are any bigger starting MLB than him, he isnt even a starter now. So not sure what size has to

you must have missed the in my response...the thing is trotter WAS the heaviest starting lb in the league thats why i was ribbing redman about his comment, nothing more nothing less

 

[Tenacious]

Rumor - Trotter may sign with Denver soon

If he signs, what kind of value does he have, and would he likely replace DJ in the middle?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Rumor - Trotter may sign with Denver soon

If he signs, what kind of value does he have, and would he likely replace DJ in the middle?

That note is a week old. I'm pretty certain the Broncos have said they are not interested. Let me go searching here....ETA:

Denver Post Aug 24

The Broncos have no plans of visiting with linebacker Jeremiah Trotter at this time. He was cut by Philadelphia on Tuesday.

 

[Tenacious]

Ah.....

Ok then, thanks for the correction. I need to get some better sources...

 

[Zoomanji]

Gaither Speaks about getting blown-up against Pitt

Link

All Eyes On The Man In The Middle

August 28, 2007 | Last Updated: 8/28/07 10:28 PM ET | Comments (0)

By: CHRIS McPHERSON

Omar Gaither knew that the job description for starting middle linebacker involved more than roaming from sideline to sideline and shedding 300-pound offensive linemen. In addition, he has to be able to stand tall in the face of criticism.

Gaither made his debut as the starting middle linebacker in Sunday night's 27-13 preseason loss to Pittsburgh. The stat sheet showed three total tackles in a performance that Gaither himself described on Tuesday as "in the middle."

What fans remember is Steelers running back Willie Parker running untouched for an 18-yard touchdown in the second quarter. They recall Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger throwing for 247 yards in the first half. Gaither understood that every mistake he made would be scrutinized.

"Everybody has their eyes on me," said Gaither. "Any little thing I do wrong is going to be blown up, which is to be expected. I kind of expected that.

"I think I would have had to have been short of amazing to get everybody's approval, which is fine. I'll just play my game and keep doing what I do well."

Gaither was his own toughest critic immediately after the game, but said that "it wasn't as bad as I originally thought."

On Parker's touchdown run, Steelers tackle Max Starks blocked Gaither and he was not able to shed it. Starks' teammate wide receiver Santonio Holmes added another block which opened the path for the score.

"They ran a good play," said Gaither. "It was just a PBO. They had a stunt on. They just had a good play called for the right defense. Sometimes that happens. I have to do a better job of getting off the block and making the play."

When the Eagles face the Green Bay Packers to open the season, they will roll out a new starter at each of the three linebacker positions - Gaither in the middle, Chris Gocong on the strong side and Takeo Spikes, a two-time Pro Bowl honoree, on the weak side. Gaither and Gocong each said they would play in a limited capacity on Thursday night in the preseason finale against the Jets. There may only be a week-and-a-half before the 2007 season kicks off, but Gaither is confident that the trio will not need a lot of time to solidify.

"I don't think it will take too long. Chris has played with Takeo already in camp, training camp," said Gaither. "I've been going in with the one's switching in and out. I think we play pretty well, actually. We did a good job of communicating on some things. I think we're going to play well together."

 

[redman]

This is going to be a big litmus test for Gaither IMHO. He was nearly invisible week 1, but there's no reason to be tonight. The Redskins are unabashedly a run-first team, on the road against a division foe on MNF with a young QB. Unless they're down two TD's early, they're running the ball a lot, at least 40 times if I had to guess. As a MLB, Gaither should have double digit tackles or close to it. If he doesn't (and the game's not a blowout) I think we need to look long and hard at him to see if he's not been overrated.

 

[Jene Bramel]

This is going to be a big litmus test for Gaither IMHO. He was nearly invisible week 1, but there's no reason to be tonight. The Redskins are unabashedly a run-first team, on the road against a division foe on MNF with a young QB. Unless they're down two TD's early, they're running the ball a lot, at least 40 times if I had to guess. As a MLB, Gaither should have double digit tackles or close to it. If he doesn't (and the game's not a blowout) I think we need to look long and hard at him to see if he's not been overrated.

I'm in total agreement. Wrote that I wasn't too concerned last week, since the Eagles were in the nickel a significant amount of time against the Packers' 3 WR sets and Gaither was often being faced with bigger blockers on running plays -- not protected by a SLB, etc.Definitely the watershed week for big time production. If the opportunity is favorable and Gaither isn't successful in the boxscore, it's time to lower expectations significantly until/if he "gets" it.

 

[KellysHeroes]

5 - 1 in the 1st half... not too bad

 

[Tenacious]

This is going to be a big litmus test for Gaither IMHO. He was nearly invisible week 1, but there's no reason to be tonight. The Redskins are unabashedly a run-first team, on the road against a division foe on MNF with a young QB. Unless they're down two TD's early, they're running the ball a lot, at least 40 times if I had to guess. As a MLB, Gaither should have double digit tackles or close to it. If he doesn't (and the game's not a blowout) I think we need to look long and hard at him to see if he's not been overrated.

I'm in total agreement. Wrote that I wasn't too concerned last week, since the Eagles were in the nickel a significant amount of time against the Packers' 3 WR sets and Gaither was often being faced with bigger blockers on running plays -- not protected by a SLB, etc.Definitely the watershed week for big time production. If the opportunity is favorable and Gaither isn't successful in the boxscore, it's time to lower expectations significantly until/if he "gets" it.

Improved stats, he seemed to be involved much more in the defense this week. Would you say he's starting to "get it"?

 

[Jene Bramel]

This is going to be a big litmus test for Gaither IMHO. He was nearly invisible week 1, but there's no reason to be tonight. The Redskins are unabashedly a run-first team, on the road against a division foe on MNF with a young QB. Unless they're down two TD's early, they're running the ball a lot, at least 40 times if I had to guess. As a MLB, Gaither should have double digit tackles or close to it. If he doesn't (and the game's not a blowout) I think we need to look long and hard at him to see if he's not been overrated.

I'm in total agreement. Wrote that I wasn't too concerned last week, since the Eagles were in the nickel a significant amount of time against the Packers' 3 WR sets and Gaither was often being faced with bigger blockers on running plays -- not protected by a SLB, etc.Definitely the watershed week for big time production. If the opportunity is favorable and Gaither isn't successful in the boxscore, it's time to lower expectations significantly until/if he "gets" it.

Improved stats, he seemed to be involved much more in the defense this week. Would you say he's starting to "get it"?

I was never particularly concerned that he didn't. I wasn't as bugged about the Pittsburgh preseason game as most and there were a number of things last week that suggested that his boxscores would improve.I think he's got as much potential as any of the new wave of undersized MLB. He'll have trouble getting off blocks if engaged and he'll still overrun a play or three, but I still believe there's LB2 value here.

 

[redman]

This is going to be a big litmus test for Gaither IMHO. He was nearly invisible week 1, but there's no reason to be tonight. The Redskins are unabashedly a run-first team, on the road against a division foe on MNF with a young QB. Unless they're down two TD's early, they're running the ball a lot, at least 40 times if I had to guess. As a MLB, Gaither should have double digit tackles or close to it. If he doesn't (and the game's not a blowout) I think we need to look long and hard at him to see if he's not been overrated.

I'm in total agreement. Wrote that I wasn't too concerned last week, since the Eagles were in the nickel a significant amount of time against the Packers' 3 WR sets and Gaither was often being faced with bigger blockers on running plays -- not protected by a SLB, etc.Definitely the watershed week for big time production. If the opportunity is favorable and Gaither isn't successful in the boxscore, it's time to lower expectations significantly until/if he "gets" it.

Improved stats, he seemed to be involved much more in the defense this week. Would you say he's starting to "get it"?

I was never particularly concerned that he didn't. I wasn't as bugged about the Pittsburgh preseason game as most and there were a number of things last week that suggested that his boxscores would improve.I think he's got as much potential as any of the new wave of undersized MLB. He'll have trouble getting off blocks if engaged and he'll still overrun a play or three, but I still believe there's LB2 value here.

Agreed. He's certainly a fantasy starter.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I noticed in the 1st half... Spikes was taken out during passing downs... then in the 2nd half; Gaither was taken out and Spikes was in.

Was Omar not getting the job done????

 

[Jene Bramel]

I noticed in the 1st half... Spikes was taken out during passing downs... then in the 2nd half; Gaither was taken out and Spikes was in.Was Omar not getting the job done????

Huh. I'll have to go back and look, but that's not what I noticed. I thought it was Gaither and Spikes in the nickel and Spikes in the dime.

 

[BearsFan]

Yes, I definitely saw a couple of occasions in the 1st half where Spikes was taken out on 3rd down. Gaither stayed in.

...I kindof lost track of what was happening with the situation in the 2nd half.

 

[KellysHeroes]

I noticed in the 1st half... Spikes was taken out during passing downs... then in the 2nd half; Gaither was taken out and Spikes was in.Was Omar not getting the job done????

Huh. I'll have to go back and look, but that's not what I noticed. I thought it was Gaither and Spikes in the nickel and Spikes in the dime.

Maybe it was the Dime Formation when I saw Gaither running to the sideline.Still... a very impressive night for Gaither...