Legal Marijuana & Probable Cause (1 Viewer)

[Koya]

Good timing on this thread - I was reading about some LE folks who were anti-legalisation and it occurred to me that, imo, one of the reasons some LE is so against legalisation has nothing to do with weed use itself... but it's an easy way to get an excuse to do to things.  

1. Find even the "smell" of weed and now a cop has probable cause to do a full "legal" search.  Useful when you "know" someone is carrying a weapon or has more serious drugs etc on them. 

2. Even if nothing else is found, it gets a "bad guy" off the street be it for a night in holding or until they get bail (which could be a lengthy period of incarceration unto itself) or in some localities get hit with charges that result in jail time.

While not fair, it's a tool used by police as a gateway to get searches and find greater offenses. Between my knowledge of my friends in LE, especially the NYPD and Nassau County, let's be honest - a preppy white kid hands over his weed and goes on his way unless he's a #### to the cops, but a "gang banger" type (which could be a legit bad dude that the cops know or some innocent black kid that doesn't happen to be a white prep) gets the full ringamoroll. 

This is further reinforced when you see more community oriented police forces who clearly see weed not only as a waste of time, but a terribly unfair burden, and they seem far more amenable and even supportive of legalisation, because they want to help avoid the very sketchy behavior I listed above, which helps destroy communities more than it gets the right bad guys off the street 

 

[Ilov80s]

I only caught a piece of a show about this on NPR the other day, but apparently the answer to the bolded seems to be "almost none". The guest said that no bank is willing to risk its standing with the feds. The loans are coming from private entities. 

Even worse, they just had enough money to fund it on their own I guess. I think I saw a Forbes piece about all the weed capitalists and they were all white. It's an interesting side to the story to me. 

 

[Ilov80s]

What I find insane (whenever I read sob stories like that) is not only the lack of even a hint of personal accountability but also the degree to which these people are painted as complete victims. NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO DO ILLEGAL DRUGS! That is a choice. And (like all choices) it has consequences. I think its stupid marijuana is illegal in most places in this country and carries stiff penalties. That doesn't change the fact that its illegal in most places in this country and carries stiff penalties. People who know this and still choose to smoke out on the street in plain sight of the cops? That is ####### dumb. And then those same people want to cry about being under attack, futures ruined, families being broken apart, etc (as though some boogeyman jumped out of the bushes and just did this to them)? Seriously?? If those things are a concern, here's an idea: don't ####### smoke weed!! If a criminal record is going to negatively impact your career prospects, don't do #### that is going to get you a criminal record. Prioritize your family over getting high and you don't have to worry about being in jail while they are growing up. This is really not difficult, yet I am continually astonished by the lengths people will go to attempt to paint people (who make the conscious choice to do something they know is illegal) as victims when those people are caught and have to deal with the consequences of their choice.

I rolled my eyes so hard they are stuck that way. I guess my mom was right after all. 

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Even worse, they just had enough money to fund it on their own I guess. I think I saw a Forbes piece about all the weed capitalists and they were all white. It's an interesting side to the story to me. 

Just to be clear, I wasn't counterarguing the point you were trying to make (which was entirely different than my response and which I agree with). It's just that, when I heard the NPR piece, I realized that it never occurred to me that banks would rather give their money to Nigerian scammers than loan it to state-recognized pot shops with the Federal Gov't being as screwed up as they are about the subject.

 

[Ilov80s]

Just to be clear, I wasn't counterarguing the point you were trying to make (which was entirely different than my response and which I agree with). It's just that, when I heard the NPR piece, I realized that it never occurred to me that banks would rather give their money to Nigerian scammers than loan it to state-recognized pot shops with the Federal Gov't being as screwed up as they are about the subject.

Oh I know, it was an interesting tidbit and makes a lot of sense. 

 

[tdoss]

The problem is that weed stays in your system for weeks. You can have a cop that thinks you might be under the influence (and maybe you are just tired or are just a bonehead driver)--tests your blood/urine--and you could test positive for weed that you used days before you ever got in your car.  

Was in court once where the cop was asked how long he was a traffic cop.  26 years.

How many people did he pull over per year of suspected DUI.  Last year was almost 600...which was average.

How many resulted in arrest? 75

This one cop alone...was pulling over about 2 cars a day on suspected DUI for 26 years (or more since he didnt work every day) and only had a success rate of about 12%.

That's great he caught that 12% but damn... that's terrible.  Basically dude is just pulling people over at random each night...especially after 2am.

 

[tdoss]

I think he's saying that the smell lingers for a long time, especially for a regular smoker of it (there will be plenty of regulars now with it legal). Just like cigs. You don't have to have just smoked it for you to smell like it.

Febreeze gotta work on this.

Maybe some sort of car accessory that will quickly mist the interior upon being pulled over.

 

[Wrigley]

Make sure you give FBGs a call out when we see you tonight on LPD

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

This is why states will ignore the feds: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/colorado/articles/2017-07-20/colorado-pot-tax-revenue-surpasses-500-million

That was in July. I think Colorado raked in over a billion in taxes in 2017.

Read more closely.  The estimate that got to 500 million covered several years, not the first 6 months of the last year.  This does not change your point, it is just to scale beliefs to a somewhat more realistic and accurate number.

 

[Ilov80s]

Good timing on this thread - I was reading about some LE folks who were anti-legalisation and it occurred to me that, imo, one of the reasons some LE is so against legalisation has nothing to do with weed use itself... but it's an easy way to get an excuse to do to things.  

1. Find even the "smell" of weed and now a cop has probable cause to do a full "legal" search.  Useful when you "know" someone is carrying a weapon or has more serious drugs etc on them. 

2. Even if nothing else is found, it gets a "bad guy" off the street be it for a night in holding or until they get bail (which could be a lengthy period of incarceration unto itself) or in some localities get hit with charges that result in jail time.

While not fair, it's a tool used by police as a gateway to get searches and find greater offenses. Between my knowledge of my friends in LE, especially the NYPD and Nassau County, let's be honest - a preppy white kid hands over his weed and goes on his way unless he's a #### to the cops, but a "gang banger" type (which could be a legit bad dude that the cops know or some innocent black kid that doesn't happen to be a white prep) gets the full ringamoroll. 

This is further reinforced when you see more community oriented police forces who clearly see weed not only as a waste of time, but a terribly unfair burden, and they seem far more amenable and even supportive of legalisation, because they want to help avoid the very sketchy behavior I listed above, which helps destroy communities more than it gets the right bad guys off the street 

60,000 marijuana arrests in NYC over the last 5 years

 

[Koya]

60,000 marijuana arrests in NYC over the last 5 years

socio-ethnic-economic breakdown of those arrests?

 

[Vanilla Guerrilla]

Was in court once where the cop was asked how long he was a traffic cop.  26 years.

How many people did he pull over per year of suspected DUI.  Last year was almost 600...which was average.

How many resulted in arrest? 75

This one cop alone...was pulling over about 2 cars a day on suspected DUI for 26 years (or more since he didnt work every day) and only had a success rate of about 12%.

That's great he caught that 12% but damn... that's terrible.  Basically dude is just pulling people over at random each night...especially after 2am.

There are a lot of horrible drivers on the road.  Probably easy to pull someone over for crossing a line in the road a few times within a mile stretch of highway.  I've been pulled over for a suspected DUI.  There were no cars within 200 yards of me and I was fidgetting with my radio.

It was pretty cool.  They had 3 squads there when I turned off of the highway.  A few more and I might have picked up some flags for my car and acted like it was a presidential motorcade.

 

[Ilov80s]

socio-ethnic-economic breakdown of those arrests?

52k of them were black or Latino. Also I was wrong, that was only over 3 years. Whether the arrest happens in a predominantly white district or a predominately black/Hispanic neighborhood, its most often a black or Hispanic person being arrested. 

http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/Marijuana-Arrests-NYC--Unjust-Unconstitutional--July2017_2.pdf

 

[the rover]

What the DOJ should be doing is pushing States with legal weed to release anyone in jail for possession or sale. How many poor black men are in jail for trying to make a loving selling weed? How many white people have gotten bank loans to begin their legal marijuana businesses? 

Why would the DOJ have anything to do with state penal policy?   States that have legalized weed have released a significant amount of non-violent offenders.  In Washington one of the main advocates for legalization was our state attorney general, who presented numbers on how much we were wasting on prosecuting drug-related non-violent crimes and the associated costs of keeping those people in prison. 

 

[the rover]

Read more closely.  The estimate that got to 500 million covered several years, not the first 6 months of the last year.  This does not change your point, it is just to scale beliefs to a somewhat more realistic and accurate number.

Washington is estimating $730 million over the next two years.   It isn't just taxes, though.   The legalized weed industry is bringing in tons of revenue and creating jobs.   

 

[the rover]

I only caught a piece of a show about this on NPR the other day, but apparently the answer to the bolded seems to be "almost none". The guest said that no bank is willing to risk its standing with the feds. The loans are coming from private entities. 

This isn't entirely accurate.   Small banks that operate only within the state are being set up, and their money sequestered from any other entity they may be affiliated with in case the feds do something drastic.  This is also happening with law firms, etc.   Companies set up separate LLCs and PLLCs, and all of the money is segregated just in case.  

 

[urbanhack]

Washington is estimating $730 million over the next two years.   It isn't just taxes, though.   The legalized weed industry is bringing in tons of revenue and creating jobs.   

And cannabis taxes just surpassed liquor tax revenue this year for the first time in Washington.

 

[the rover]

And cannabis taxes just surpassed liquor tax revenue this year for the first time in Washington.

which is amazing since our liquor tax is like 30%

 

[Uruk-Hai]

This isn't entirely accurate.   Small banks that operate only within the state are being set up, and their money sequestered from any other entity they may be affiliated with in case the feds do something drastic.  This is also happening with law firms, etc.   Companies set up separate LLCs and PLLCs, and all of the money is segregated just in case.  

Thanks for clarifying. As I said, I only caught part of the show and I don't know who the guest was (or what her agenda may have been). It's just something I never thought about and I found it interesting.

 

[Ilov80s]

Why would the DOJ have anything to do with state penal policy?   States that have legalized weed have released a significant amount of non-violent offenders.  In Washington one of the main advocates for legalization was our state attorney general, who presented numbers on how much we were wasting on prosecuting drug-related non-violent crimes and the associated costs of keeping those people in prison. 

The DOJ works with States in several ways, including ensuring people of all SES have access to counsel and are given fair trials. This seems like a situation where many young poor people could be begins bars and lack the $ or wherewithal to get themselves released in a speedy manner. 

Plus there is the issue of clearing records of past felony charges. It's a lot of work and everyday longer it takes to complete is another day in jail or perhaps another day without a job.