Let's talk about the (lack of) a running game in Denver (1 Viewer)

[moleculo]

obviously, it's bad...really bad. I think things will get better.

IMO, it starts with the OL. Obviously, McD is in year 2 of a transition from the ZBS to a power scheme. He has re-tooled the line to suit this scheme better, as well as replace some guys who were getting a bit long in the tooth. Result is a very inexperienced line, which also happens to be injured.

From the left to the right, we have:

Clady - all-pro caliber player coming off of a serious off-season knee injury. Just now starting to regain his form.

Stanley Daniels - who? Dude was an undrafted free-agent, and couldn't make an active roster in NYJ, GB, or STL.

JD Walton - rookie, 3rd round draft pick

Chris Kuper - veteran, dealing with a sprained ankle

Zane Beadles - rookie, 2nd round pick. Should be playing guard.

*Ryan Harris - currently hurt (again). Stud.

out of five starting linemen, each and every one of them is coming off an injury or is seeing their first ever NFL regular season action.

Looking at the running backs:

Knowshon Moreno - so far this season, IMO he's shown good wiggle and vision, but little speed. Did not practice much in pre-season due to hammy injury. Currently has another hammy injury, no word on how bad.

Corell Buckhalter - I think he's lost a step. He just doesn't have whatever he had last year. Also missed training camp due to injury.

Lawrence Maroney - has been with the team for less than a week now.

Andre Brown - just signed off of the PS.

McD knew this was an area of need after CBuck and Moreno went down in TC - that's why he brought in Lendale White (who is out for the season), Fargas (who isn't fully healed and didn't make the roster), and now Maroney. I'm not sure who else he could have brought in that would be an improvement.

Given the rash of injuries and the inexperience, it should be no wonder why this team is 30th in rushing yards.

So - can things get better?

The OL injuries will heal. Clady has improved quite a bit already. Kuper is getting better. Beadles and Walton will only improve with a little experience. If Harris can get healthy, Beadles may slide back to LG, a more natural position for him.

I guess the case I'm trying to make here is that Moreno is a good buy-low right now. Denver's schedule opens up after the bye week with games vs KC (2x), SD (2x), StL, AZ, oak, and HOU. By then, (hopefully) he will be healthy, the OL will be healthy and experienced, and the running game will start to click. The risk is that he never really regains form and the hammy nags him all season. I personally don't see much of any value from anyone else on the roster.

If anyone has any other perspectives here, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Superdbs]

The best Denver RB and the answer to many of the running game problems now plays in Cleveland. I'm still completely mystified by McDaniels hatred of Peyton Hillis and his total refusal to use him when he was here. All the guy did was trample people and raise welts on defenders every time he played, so of course I can totally understand why you wouldn't want that on your team.

I listened to ex Broncos Alfred Williams and Mark Schlereth argue about this on radio last night. Williams is still pimping Buckhalter and morning the loss of Len Dale, and Schlereth thinks Hillis is better than Moreno, Buckhalter and Maroney. The transition to power running and bigger linemen instead of the old cut-blocking scheme is painful to watch while everyone tries to get on the same page. I agree about Moreno being a good buy-low, especially now that's he injured again. He runs hard when he does play, and I can see a lot of his 2 and 3 yard gains becoming 8, 10 and 20 if and when the running game finds some cohesion. Nobody else worth owning. Maroney is rapidly proving he can't play anywhere.

 

[basher]

Moreno is the answer and I would imagine some of the speed issues (although he was never known as a blazer) is because he is playing hurt. I was surprised to see buckhalter look so putrid against the Colts ... Maybe the wheels are off there. Maroney still looks like Maroney ... couple yards go down on first contact.

 

[whitem0nkey]

Fantasy wise this should be good news for Moreno owners, as when he returns he will be the main guy.

 

[Mile High]

Well according to Williams and Schlereth the Broncos aren't committed to run the football. There's only so much time in practice to do things and Denver spends it on pass plays. According to Schlereth it takes more out of an o-line doing pass protection then run blocking. He said an o-line that passes 60 times a game and runs 15 isn't doing the o-line any favors and will wear them down over the course of a season. Take it for what you want.

 

[moleculo]

Well according to Williams and Schlereth the Broncos aren't committed to run the football. There's only so much time in practice to do things and Denver spends it on pass plays. According to Schlereth it takes more out of an o-line doing pass protection then run blocking. He said an o-line that passes 60 times a game and runs 15 isn't doing the o-line any favors and will wear them down over the course of a season. Take it for what you want.

That's probably legit, but I have got to hope that this changes. We'll see what happens this week vs Ten.

 

[moleculo]

The best Denver RB and the answer to many of the running game problems now plays in Cleveland. I'm still completely mystified by McDaniels hatred of Peyton Hillis and his total refusal to use him when he was here. All the guy did was trample people and raise welts on defenders every time he played, so of course I can totally understand why you wouldn't want that on your team. I listened to ex Broncos Alfred Williams and Mark Schlereth argue about this on radio last night. Williams is still pimping Buckhalter and morning the loss of Len Dale, and Schlereth thinks Hillis is better than Moreno, Buckhalter and Maroney. The transition to power running and bigger linemen instead of the old cut-blocking scheme is painful to watch while everyone tries to get on the same page. I agree about Moreno being a good buy-low, especially now that's he injured again. He runs hard when he does play, and I can see a lot of his 2 and 3 yard gains becoming 8, 10 and 20 if and when the running game finds some cohesion. Nobody else worth owning. Maroney is rapidly proving he can't play anywhere.

looking to Cleveland doesn't solve anything moving forward. I don't know why Hillis didn't click w/ McD, but he didn't click w/ Shanahan or Mangini either. Hillis has never been given the opportunity to be the guy since day 1. w/ Shanahan, the following RB's had to have injuries before Hillis got the start: Andre Hall, Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, and Ryan Torain. Even after all that happened, Shanahan brought Tatum Bell out of the mall to pair with Hillis. W/ Mangini, he drafted Hardesty and indicated that Harrison was gonna be the guy. Hillis was never supposed to be the guy there either. There must be something with the way the dude practices for three coaches to not want to lean on him.

 

[Mile High]

Well according to Williams and Schlereth the Broncos aren't committed to run the football. There's only so much time in practice to do things and Denver spends it on pass plays. According to Schlereth it takes more out of an o-line doing pass protection then run blocking. He said an o-line that passes 60 times a game and runs 15 isn't doing the o-line any favors and will wear them down over the course of a season. Take it for what you want.

That's probably legit, but I have got to hope that this changes. We'll see what happens this week vs Ten.

Interesting they just had a clip with Brandon Lloyd on. He must have heaed Schlereth cause he said they practice the run all the time, just that the team isn't doing it's job. Maybe it's just the Bronco RBs just aren't very good.

 

[moleculo]

Well according to Williams and Schlereth the Broncos aren't committed to run the football. There's only so much time in practice to do things and Denver spends it on pass plays. According to Schlereth it takes more out of an o-line doing pass protection then run blocking. He said an o-line that passes 60 times a game and runs 15 isn't doing the o-line any favors and will wear them down over the course of a season. Take it for what you want.

That's probably legit, but I have got to hope that this changes. We'll see what happens this week vs Ten.

Interesting they just had a clip with Brandon Lloyd on. He must have heaed Schlereth cause he said they practice the run all the time, just that the team isn't doing it's job. Maybe it's just the Bronco RBs just aren't very good.

it's possible that Schlereths and Lloyd's definition of commitment to the running game are different?

 

[moleculo]

pulled from a Broncos message board:

The number to the right of each team represents the combined career starts for the two guards, two tackles and center with the most starts in the current season. 29 teams have at least double the starting experience.

And despite the youth, Denver is 5th in QB hits per pass attempt.

Rk, Team, Exp

1. New York Giants, 539

2. Green Bay Packers, 427

3. Dallas Cowboys, 420

4. Kansas City Chiefs, 405

5. New York Jets, 390

6. Detroit Lions, 383

7. Indianapolis Colts, 359

8. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 349

9. Minnesota Vikings, 341

10. Washington Redskins, 340

11. Arizona Cardinals, 333

12. New England Patriots, 325

13. Chicago Bears, 312

14. Cleveland Browns, 312

15. Atlanta Falcons, 310

16. Pittsburgh Steelers, 302

17. Jacksonville Jaguars, 290

18. Tennessee Titans, 287

19. Seattle Seahawks, 276

20. Baltimore Ravens, 273

21. Oakland Raiders, 235

22. Carolina Panthers, 234

23. New Orleans Saints, 230

24. Cincinnati Bengals, 218

25. San Diego Chargers, 216

26. St. Louis Rams, 195

27. Houston Texans, 185

28. Philadelphia Eagles, 184

29. Miami Dolphins, 179

30. Buffalo Bills, 138

31. San Francisco 49ers, 114

32. Denver Broncos, 88

This should really illustrate why Denver is struggling to move the ball.Does anyone know any recent examples of teams starting the season with three first year lineman?

 

[moleculo]

for those of you keeping score at home, this is the first time all season that all 5 linemen were playing at the position they practiced in training camp: Clady, Beadles, Walton, Kuper, and Harris. No Daniels, no Hochstein.

Some believe that a big reason for the struggles was the problem @ LG: both Clady and Walton had to compensate. Beadles was playing RT until recently due to Harris' injury. Now that everyone is healthy and the line is starting to gel, we have the first 100 yard game all season and first of Moreno's career.

 

[munygon2]

Moreno ripped off huge chunks of yardage yesterday. The whole Denver offense was explosive and Orton could have had even bigger stats if not for Tebow.

 

[emge]

Moreno ripped off huge chunks of yardage yesterday. The whole Denver offense was explosive and Orton could have had even bigger stats if not for Tebow.

I F###ing hate Tebow. He cost me the win.

 

[mbuehner]

Moreno ripped off huge chunks of yardage yesterday. The whole Denver offense was explosive and Orton could have had even bigger stats if not for Tebow.

I F###ing hate Tebow. He cost me the win.

That first Tebow TD should never have been necessary- the play that got them to the goalline on the pass from Orton to Thomas, Thomas clearly broke the plane before he landed out of bounds. He landed about a yard deep in the endzone (out of bounds) but never stepped out, not sure how the officials missed that, and I don't think replay was working at the time.

 

[cmv5]

for those of you keeping score at home, this is the first time all season that all 5 linemen were playing at the position they practiced in training camp: Clady, Beadles, Walton, Kuper, and Harris. No Daniels, no Hochstein. Some believe that a big reason for the struggles was the problem @ LG: both Clady and Walton had to compensate. Beadles was playing RT until recently due to Harris' injury. Now that everyone is healthy and the line is starting to gel, we have the first 100 yard game all season and first of Moreno's career.

Good call on this and that's why I love a relatively unbiased fan's perspective. I never really understood all the Moreno hate. I thought there needed to be a little stop the insanity on any thought of Maroney stealing the job or Moreno getting cut talk. I expect Broncos to still be a pass first team but now they can actually eat some clock time. Chargers should be a good test to see if this is a trend.

 

[shader]

Moreno is a very good back, but clearly Tebow is going to be on the goalline all year, which greatly hurts his value.

And I can't say I blame Mcdaniels. The Tebow package seems to be working every time he uses it. I'd keep doing it.

 

[C-Bound]

How often/from where does Tebow get the call near the goalline? Only at the one? Five and in?

 

[RamMan]

How often/from where does Tebow get the call near the goalline? Only at the one? Five and in?

I watched the game yesterday and I seem to recall that the first TD came from the one and the second TD (a pass to Larson) came from around the three. I also seem to recall that the Tebow package came onto the field one other time from outside the ten, ran one play for a short gain, and came off the field.

 

[C-Bound]

How often/from where does Tebow get the call near the goalline? Only at the one? Five and in?

I watched the game yesterday and I seem to recall that the first TD came from the one and the second TD (a pass to Larson) came from around the three. I also seem to recall that the Tebow package came onto the field one other time from outside the ten, ran one play for a short gain, and came off the field.

Thanks, I'm planning on starting Moreno for the first time this week (over Turner) but the lack of goal line touches is concerning.

 

[RushHour]

Moreno looked great yesterday. I've been a doubter, but came away impressed.