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Let's Talk Penn State Football (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ClownCausedChaos
- Start date
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
At this point, I don't think anyone can give you A name or a short list. But, Penn State is a premier program. If the position were to open, PSU would almost have their pick of the litter of coordinators or up-and-coming head coaches at smaller schools looking for an opportunity.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
That being said, I'm willing to give Franklin another year (as was mentioned before). The team is young. And for everything that McSorley has done - and he deserves all of the credit that he has received. He seems like a hell of a young man and has all the guts in the world - I think Stevens might be a better quarterback.
I just don't think Franklin is a very good coach.
I just don't think Franklin is a very good coach.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
DocHolliday
Footballguy
A lot of overreacting going on. There have been a few bad decisions, but mostly this is just a less talented team after losing some great players to the NFL.
kupcho1
Footballguy
I don’t recall Franklin’s earlier recruiting classes being as hyped as the last few
This year's freshman are the first top 10 class. Barkley was one of the best players in Penn State history.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Such a great story. I know a lot of people make fun of the Penn State cheer. I'm not sure they would of they knew the origin.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Last week, my brother was hopeful and I said we have not shot.
This week, I'm hopeful and he says we have no shot.
Sure as hell hope I'm right.
This week, I'm hopeful and he says we have no shot.
Sure as hell hope I'm right.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
It doesn't look like McSorley can run.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Nevermind.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
The defense was ridiculous.
If Franklin we're a superhero, his power would be turning easily manageable situations into the unnecessarily complex.
Jutz
Footballguy
I completely agree with this. I think it is kind of ridiculous that people are even considering getting rid of Franklin.
In all honesty I couldn't care less if he can coach as long as he keeps bringing in top 10 recruiting classes. One of the winningest coaches in college football (I think it might have been Eddie Robinson) was asked what makes him such a great coach. His answer was "personnel'. If you get great players, that goes a lot further in my book compared to in game management. That's what coordinators are for. I think the article about Moorhead leaving was really interesting. If Franklin finds the next Morehead, all this talk is over. I would bet Morehead probably handled in game decisions like this in the past... or at least guided Franklin in the decisions.
We know Franklin can recruit players. The only thing I am worried about is if he can recruit coaches. I was impressed with him knowing about and bringing in Morehead. Actually there is one other thing I am worried about. I am worried that is he too loyal to Ricky Rahne. He has followed Franklin to multiple jobs but like the article states he doesn't really have an identity as a coach. I feel like he is merely attempting to copy what Moorhead did, but he doesn't have a true understanding of the RPO. If Franklin hangs onto Rahne too long and the offense and in-game decisions don't improve... then I think Rahne could be Franklin's downfall.
Rahne coaching from the booth really bothers me too. My wife actually pointed out to me during a game that Rahne was coaching from the booth. I don't know why, but my immediate reaction was "that's not good". I just think the dynamic is better with the OC on the sideline.
Jutz
Footballguy
I also agree with this. I think the past two years in some ways were PSU fans living in fantasy land. I think the team way outperformed where they normally would be coming out of the most crippling sanctions in program history. Barkley may end up being one of the best players in football history when all is said and done.
I also think Gesicki is one of the reasons they outperformed the past 2 years. He bailed PSU out with passes that were basically jump balls. Then you look at what Godwin is doing in the NFL and it makes me think he was a factor as well.
Like you said, this year's freshman are the first top 10 class. I want to see what the team looks like when this first top 10 class are juniors / seniors. If the team is still struggling then... then I might join the conversation about Franklin, but until then I say let him keep on brining in the talent. He has recruited players PSU would have NEVER had a shot at in the past.
kupcho1
Footballguy
?
Uh .. ok. Seems to me that coaching is a relatively large part of the job. They even put 'coach' right there in the job title.
Coaching at the college level to me is mostly teaching skills and development of players.
Jutz
Footballguy
Coaching at the college level IMO is mostly recruiting. After recruiting I think it is mainly being the "face of the franchise". It is doing interviews and press conferences. It is making sure the recruits that come to visit go the Ohio State white out so they can see how awesome of an atmosphere they could potentially play in. It's making sure your players are keeping up with their grades and are eligible to play. It's making sure your players don't do anything stupid off the field, and dealing with it in the press if/when they do. It is providing leadership and keeping the team motivated through meetings and speeches. It is largely about culture. I often hear about the culture that Dabo is forming at Clemson and how it plays strongly into his success. Head coaches deliberately and systematically attempt to formulate a culture that players want to be a part of, and that promotes hard work and dedication while still being fun.Drunken Cowboy said:
When it comes to coaching, I think the HC does some of it, but I think it probably comes down to a small percentage of all they do. Think about a college team and all the coaches. Penn State currently has 11 coaches / coordinators. There are coaches for specific groups on the offense and the defense: QB's, Linebackers, D-Line, Special Teams, Safties, Tight Ends, WR's, O-Line, RB's, CB's. There are so many coaches on staff how much coaching does the HC really have to do?
I think the HC provides guidance and direction to their coordinators, but I don't think they get into the X's and O's. I do agree that in game management is the responsibility of the HC, and yes Franklin needs to improve greatly in that area. I also believe that can be learned and fixed. I also believe that Moorhead probably handled most of those decisions the past two years, and there is a void now. Moorhead was an HC when he came to PSU. He was probably used to doing things like that. I think he approached his job as OC like he was a HC and Franklin didn't have to worry about much. Rhane on the other hand has never been HC. I think Franklin needs to develop Rhane if anything.
But in terms of coaching... I don't think the HC does much of it. With college football these days being such a huge business, I look at the HC as more of a CEO rather than a coach, and I think that any team that has the right talent will have a big advantage and that is the place where Franklin excels.
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kupcho1
Footballguy
Five reasons why Penn State coach James Franklin is the worst
tl;dr
That said, #1 is pathetic (did not hear about it at the time, but tbh I tuned out after the loss for a while). #5 is pretty creepy.
#2 was classless (I was actually at the game and could not believe he did that) and #4 may be hypocritical, but also have to factor in he's now at a school recruits will flip to rather than away from.
tl;dr
#3 doesn't belong on this list. Belongs on the list of why Franklin is the best.
That said, #1 is pathetic (did not hear about it at the time, but tbh I tuned out after the loss for a while). #5 is pretty creepy.
#2 was classless (I was actually at the game and could not believe he did that) and #4 may be hypocritical, but also have to factor in he's now at a school recruits will flip to rather than away from.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Interesting. Average CEO tenure is around 5 years now. CEO needs to deliver results. And despite having great talent and bringing it in on a consistent basis, the results just haven't been there yet.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
#6 His 4th quarter play calling against....well....everyone.Five reasons why Penn State coach James Franklin is the worst
tl;dr
#3 doesn't belong on this list. Belongs on the list of why Franklin is the best.
That said, #1 is pathetic (did not hear about it at the time, but tbh I tuned out after the loss for a while). #5 is pretty creepy.
#2 was classless (I was actually at the game and could not believe he did that) and #4 may be hypocritical, but also have to factor in he's now at a school recruits will flip to rather than away from.
#7 Declining an illegal procedure call on a kickoff out of bounds.
#8 Calling a timeout before halftime before punting on 4th and 17, essentially giving your opponent a free timeout.
#9 Having to be stopped by your staff from frantically trying to call a timeout after a change of possession.
#10 Needing g to run out the clock against Wisconsin and putting in your backup QB to take a snap with motion in front of him, rather than just running the ball with your starting team.
#11 4th and 5
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
I agree 3 doesn't belong on the list, especially since Narduzzi was calling out a PSU player before this years game. I make two exceptions for running up the score - Pitt and Ohio State (which never happensFive reasons why Penn State coach James Franklin is the worst
tl;dr
#3 doesn't belong on this list. Belongs on the list of why Franklin is the best.
That said, #1 is pathetic (did not hear about it at the time, but tbh I tuned out after the loss for a while). #5 is pretty creepy.
#2 was classless (I was actually at the game and could not believe he did that) and #4 may be hypocritical, but also have to factor in he's now at a school recruits will flip to rather than away from.
)1 and 2 are awful, 4 is hypocritical, and as for 5 - I'm going to need to see some proof.
Jutz
Footballguy
What results are YOU looking for? I absolutely think the results have been there.
PSU get's hit with the most crippling sanctions in school history
Years 1 and 2 of the sanctions are handled by O'Brien
Franklin takes over and goes 7-6 in 2014, bowl ban and scholarships are restored at end of 2014 season and he goes 7-6 again in 2015
In 2016 PSU goes 11-3 beats OSU and are Big 10 CHAMPS with a loss in the Rose Bowl which was one of the most exciting college football games I've ever seen
In 2017 PSU goes 11-2 with a Fiesta bowl win over Washington
In 2018 PSU looks like they will go 9-3 with what I would call a 'down year'
When I think about the fact that this team was the Champion of the Big 10 in their 2nd season after sanctions were phased out is absolutely AMAZING to me. Do you really think PSU should just automatically be vaulted into competing for a national championship every year? I think the results have far surpassed what I could have imagined. To be able to recruit at all during that time period must have been awful. I would imagine it still is very challenging. But Franklin is doing it and making it happen.
In all honesty, I think Franklin did so well in 2016 and 2017 that PSU fans are simply expecting the same thing every year now. Like was mentioned earlier, the first top 10 recruiting class Franklin brought are only Freshmen right now. I honestly feel like if PSU got rid of him now it would be completely unfair. He wouldn't even have a shot to coach his first full recruiting class where he brought in all the players himself.
Let's face it, one of the biggest reasons PSU was so good the past 2 years was Saquan Barkley. He initially committed to Rutgers. Someone at Penn State convinced him to flip to PSU. Good recruiting makes a HUGE difference in college football. I just feel like all this chatter about Franklin is misguided. I have always been proud of the fans and alumni of PSU. I feel like when I hear these things about Franklin it comes off as privilege. I feel like we are sinking to the depths of Notre Dame fans that believe their team should be national champions every year. Some years are good, some are challenging. Look at Harbaugh's first few years with Michigan. Building a national champion team takes time and this team, I feel, is on track a heck of a lot sooner than they were ever expected to be. Remember... our current QB was initially recruited by Vanderbilt and was offered scholarships as a safety everywhere else. It was the coaches at Penn State that made him into a Big 10 Champion QB and broke numerous records at the school. That doesn't happen if you don't have a good coaching staff. And who was the QB coach the past few years? Rhane. And he is still there. It takes time... so I ask you to be like Axl Rose and have a little patients.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa.... aaaaaaaa....
ETA: there were people on this board questioning if PSU would be relegated to a mid-level MAC team after the sanctions hit... think about how far PSU has outperformed that prediction.
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I'm not as down on Franklin as some. I think he's played the hand he's been dealt pretty well overall and the team definitely over-achieved the past couple of years which increased expectations which can lead to disappointment.
My concern is that this is the first year in a while we've seen the team regress. How much of that is on losing most of the defense and key players on offense, how much is based on coaching, and how much is just the whims of fortune is hard to say.
Special teams have been a disaster most of the year and our new offensive coordinator has shown some stubbornness and is clearly on a learning curve.
The MSU loss is (still) inexplicable to me, and the blowout @ Michigan was avoidable. In both cases, the coaches did not seem to have the team ready to play, the right gameplan, or the proper in-game adjustments. Part of that is on the players for not executing properly and part of that is on the coaches for questionable decision-making.
I remember during the Minnesota game 2 years ago the students were chanting "Fire Franklin!" at halftime. To think we'd be disappointed with a potential 9-3 year just two years later is amazing.
My concern is that this is the first year in a while we've seen the team regress. How much of that is on losing most of the defense and key players on offense, how much is based on coaching, and how much is just the whims of fortune is hard to say.
Special teams have been a disaster most of the year and our new offensive coordinator has shown some stubbornness and is clearly on a learning curve.
The MSU loss is (still) inexplicable to me, and the blowout @ Michigan was avoidable. In both cases, the coaches did not seem to have the team ready to play, the right gameplan, or the proper in-game adjustments. Part of that is on the players for not executing properly and part of that is on the coaches for questionable decision-making.
I remember during the Minnesota game 2 years ago the students were chanting "Fire Franklin!" at halftime. To think we'd be disappointed with a potential 9-3 year just two years later is amazing.
Heard the other day that if we get to 10 wins it will be the first time with three straight 10-win years since 1980-1982. Not bad for a "down" year.
Insein
Footballguy
A lot of the grumbling is from the success Franklin has managed to start with. But it's frustrating when the setbacks always seem to happen in the big games. We had OSU dead to rights two years in a row and found a way to lose it. Then two years in a row we get confounded by MSU the week after because the coaches can't get the guys up to play after losing to OSU.
We all know they aren't firing Franklin. The guy is a recruiting master and a face for the national media to grab onto. The school loves that. I just hope he grows as a coach in the years to come to maybe win those big games instead of giving them away.
We all know they aren't firing Franklin. The guy is a recruiting master and a face for the national media to grab onto. The school loves that. I just hope he grows as a coach in the years to come to maybe win those big games instead of giving them away.
Tom Servo
Nittany Beavers
You lose hard-fought games? Yeah, that sucks and it happens. As @Insein said, OSU was there for the taking TWO YEARS in a row and we blew it. Win last year and our trajectory for bowl season is definitely better - our CFP profile would've been so much stronger.
I don't want this team to continually go 1-2 or 0-3 against OSU, MSU, and Michigan. I want to see more 2-1 seasons with the occasional 3-0.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
My grumblings are not with what we have done, but with what we HAVEN'T done. More specifically, losing games that we should not have lost over the past few years. We should have one loss this year.
Being more talented than our opponent has gotten us 7 wins this year. Being outcoached has gotten us 2 losses.
Being more talented than our opponent has gotten us 7 wins this year. Being outcoached has gotten us 2 losses.
kupcho1
Footballguy
Jutz
Footballguy
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ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
I have no idea what to make of this team. The defense has really been playing well in the past couple of weeks, though.
ClownCausedChaos2
Footballguy
Franklin to be courted by USC?
Obviously very, very early. But worth putting in here. Personally, I don't see him leaving PSU voluntarily. But money talks.
Obviously very, very early. But worth putting in here. Personally, I don't see him leaving PSU voluntarily. But money talks.
Jutz
Footballguy
Interesting that the article says it probably isn't about salary for Franklin himself... but facilities and ability to pay assistants.
Franklin was quoted as saying that there was about a 10 year period where PSU didn't do much to update facilities and they are playing catch up. The mention of not being able to pay assistants makes me wonder if he wanted to pay Morehead to stay but couldn't hold on to him?
If I were in freezing cold PA and had a bunch of fans complaining that I can't coach after the top notch recruiting I did and the potentially historic number of wins in a 3 year span... I might consider leaving for la la land too.
As a side note: I like our new 'ugly' ways of winning lead by a dominant defense.
