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Lockheed says makes breakthrough on fusion energy project (1 Viewer)

C

Christo

Footballguy
(Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp said on Wednesday it had made a technological breakthrough in developing a power source based on nuclear fusion, and the first reactors, small enough to fit on the back of a truck, could be ready for use in a decade.

Tom McGuire, who heads the project, said he and a small team had been working on fusion energy at Lockheed's secretive Skunk Works for about four years, but were now going public to find potential partners in industry and government for their work.

Initial work demonstrated the feasibility of building a 100-megawatt reactor measuring seven feet by 10 feet, which could fit on the back of a large truck, and is about 10 times smaller than current reactors, McGuire told reporters.

In a statement, the company, the Pentagon's largest supplier, said it would build and test a compact fusion reactor in less than a year, and build a prototype in five years.

In recent years, Lockheed has gotten increasingly involved in a variety of alternate energy projects, including several ocean energy projects, as it looks to offset a decline in U.S. and European military spending.

Lockheed's work on fusion energy could help in developing new power sources amid increasing global conflicts over energy, and as projections show there will be a 40 percent to 50 percent increase in energy use over the next generation, McGuire said.

If it proves feasible, Lockheed's work would mark a key breakthrough in a field that scientists have long eyed as promising, but which has not yet yielded viable power systems. The effort seeks to harness the energy released during nuclear fusion, when atoms combine into more stable forms.

"We can make a big difference on the energy front," McGuire said, noting Lockheed's 60 years of research on nuclear fusion as a potential energy source that is safer and more efficient than current reactors based on nuclear fission.

Lockheed sees the project as part of a comprehensive approach to solving global energy and climate change problems.

Compact nuclear fusion would produce far less waste than coal-powered plants since it would use deuterium-tritium fuel, which can generate nearly 10 million times more energy than the same amount of fossil fuels, the company said.

Ultra-dense deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, is found in the earth's oceans, and tritium is made from natural lithium deposits.

It said future reactors could use a different fuel and eliminate radioactive waste completely.

McGuire said the company had several patents pending for the work and was looking for partners in academia, industry and among government laboratories to advance the work.

Lockheed said it had shown it could complete a design, build and test it in as little as a year, which should produce an operational reactor in 10 years, McGuire said. A small reactor could power a U.S. Navy warship, and eliminate the need for other fuel sources that pose logistical challenges.

U.S. submarines and aircraft carriers run on nuclear power, but they have large fission reactors on board that have to be replaced on a regular cycle.

"What makes our project really interesting and feasible is that timeline as a potential solution," McGuire said.

Lockheed shares fell 0.6 percent to $175.02 amid a broad market selloff.
Click to expand...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015

:popcorn:

 
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.

 
Well there goes 99% of the value of most solar panel companies and wind generator makers and utilities, if true. Big if. This will be about the 7th announcement in my lifetime of the breakthrough in fusion tech. Skepticism aside I hope it is true

 
Bump Lockheed, downgrade BP.

Plus, bump Finley. Obviously.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Not exaggerating either - if this is real it will be a transformational event in human history.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Well there goes 99% of the value of most solar panel companies and wind generator makers and utilities, if true. Big if. This will be about the 7th announcement in my lifetime of the breakthrough in fusion tech. Skepticism aside I hope it is true
Click to expand...
Yeah, that 5-10 year timeline is pretty standard for trying to draw interest and investors. I'd be surprised if it's realistic.

 
Scientists Are Bashing Lockheed Martin's Nuclear Fusion 'Breakthrough'

Jessica Orwig

Oct. 15, 2014, 7:25 PM

Researchers at Lockheed Martin Corporation's Skunk Works, announced on Oct. 15 their ongoing work on a new nuclear fusion technology that could bring about functional, operational nuclear reactors in the next 10 years.

But most scientists and science communicators we talked to are skeptical of the claim.

"The nuclear engineering clearly fails to be cost effective," Tom Jarboe told Business Insider in an email. Jarboe is a professor of aeronautics and astronautics, an adjunct professor in physics, and a researcher with the University of Washington's nuclear fusion experiment.

The premise behind Lockheed's 10-year-plan is the smaller size of their device. The scientists are designing an improved version of a compact fusion reactor (CFR). The CFR generates power from nuclear fusion by extracting energy through the extremely hot plasma contained inside it.

The plasma consists of hydrogen atoms that, when heated to billions of degrees, fuse together. When this happens they release energy, which the CFR then extracts and can eventually transfer into electricity.

Traditional containment vessels for these plasmas are called tokamaks that look like hollowed-out doughnuts and are the size of an average apartment. Lockheed claims that their new CFR can generate 10 times more power than a tokamak in a space that could fit on the back of a large truck, according to Aviation Week. But Jarboe disagrees.

"This design has two doughnuts and a shell so it will be more than four times as bad as a tokamak," Jarboe stated, adding that, "Our concept [at the University of Washington] has no coils surrounded by plasma and solves the problem."

Although Lockheed Martin issued a press release stating that they have several pending patents for their approach, they have yet to publish any scientific papers on this latest work.

"It's really great that Lockheed has taken an interest in this important challenge of providing carbon-free energy to the world," Michael Zarnstorff, deputy director for research at the Princeton Plasma Physics Laboratory, told Business Insider in an email. "We haven't seen any results from the Lockheed experiments but the design is an interesting concept and it looks like they are at a very early stage of exploring this configuration."

While Zarnstorff remains optimistic, others are not ready to believe the hype.

Swadesh M. Mahajan, a thermonuclear plasma physicist at the University of Texas, told Mother Jones reporter James West that there were many reasons to be skeptical of the announcement. Specifically, "we know of no materials that would be able to handle anywhere near that amount of heat," for a device as small as Lockheed is proposing.

As of now, Lockheed's results are purely theoretical so it's hard to know whether they will work in reality, Rose Reed, an assistant professor of physics at Wayne State University and researcher at the Large Hadron Collider, told Mother Jones.

When asked if the concept of Lockheed's new design is in any way unique or novel, Zarnstorff told Business Insider that it was too early to tell.

While headlines touted Lockheed's results as a "breakthrough" that could "change the world forever," the corporation used no such language in their press release. However, it appears that we will have to wait at least a little while longer before any reactor Lockheed envisions enters the market.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-bash-lockheed-on-nuclear-fusion-2014-10#ixzz3GHNRxq49
Click to expand...
 
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Lockheed is just going to use it to figure out a way to lock themselves into lucrative contracts with the Navy. Their use of it will be highly questionable in a best case scenario.

 
Bojang0301 said:
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Lockheed is just going to use it to figure out a way to lock themselves into lucrative contracts with the Navy. Their use of it will be highly questionable in a best case scenario.
Click to expand...
While I'm skeptical of the viability of their design, there is zero chance this would be contained to military uses. The profit potential is just too great for Lockheed. Every commercial plane, every power plant, every truck, every ship - all obsolete.

 
dparker713 said:
Bojang0301 said:
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Lockheed is just going to use it to figure out a way to lock themselves into lucrative contracts with the Navy. Their use of it will be highly questionable in a best case scenario.
Click to expand...
While I'm skeptical of the viability of their design, there is zero chance this would be contained to military uses. The profit potential is just too great for Lockheed. Every commercial plane, every power plant, every truck, every ship - all obsolete.
Click to expand...
I have serious doubts nuclear anything will be used for ground or air transport. The reason the risks can be justified at sea is because if something bad happens it will end up at the bottom of the ocean. I'm not disagreeing there isn't profit potential outside of military contracts but if you had the choice of locking yourself into a situation where you have a guarenteed supply and generate all overhead expenditures both of which you'll set the prices for into an entity whose budget is bottomless vs. fighting supply/demand of the outside world which one would you primarily focus on?

 
Christo said:
(Reuters) - Lockheed Martin Corp said on Wednesday it had made a technological breakthrough in developing a power source based on nuclear fusion, and the first reactors, small enough to fit on the back of a truck, could be ready for use in a decade.

Tom McGuire, who heads the project, said he and a small team had been working on fusion energy at Lockheed's secretive Skunk Works for about four years, but were now going public to find potential partners in industry and government for their work.

Initial work demonstrated the feasibility of building a 100-megawatt reactor measuring seven feet by 10 feet, which could fit on the back of a large truck, and is about 10 times smaller than current reactors, McGuire told reporters.

In a statement, the company, the Pentagon's largest supplier, said it would build and test a compact fusion reactor in less than a year, and build a prototype in five years.

In recent years, Lockheed has gotten increasingly involved in a variety of alternate energy projects, including several ocean energy projects, as it looks to offset a decline in U.S. and European military spending.

Lockheed's work on fusion energy could help in developing new power sources amid increasing global conflicts over energy, and as projections show there will be a 40 percent to 50 percent increase in energy use over the next generation, McGuire said.

If it proves feasible, Lockheed's work would mark a key breakthrough in a field that scientists have long eyed as promising, but which has not yet yielded viable power systems. The effort seeks to harness the energy released during nuclear fusion, when atoms combine into more stable forms.

"We can make a big difference on the energy front," McGuire said, noting Lockheed's 60 years of research on nuclear fusion as a potential energy source that is safer and more efficient than current reactors based on nuclear fission.

Lockheed sees the project as part of a comprehensive approach to solving global energy and climate change problems.

Compact nuclear fusion would produce far less waste than coal-powered plants since it would use deuterium-tritium fuel, which can generate nearly 10 million times more energy than the same amount of fossil fuels, the company said.

Ultra-dense deuterium, an isotope of hydrogen, is found in the earth's oceans, and tritium is made from natural lithium deposits.

It said future reactors could use a different fuel and eliminate radioactive waste completely.

McGuire said the company had several patents pending for the work and was looking for partners in academia, industry and among government laboratories to advance the work.

Lockheed said it had shown it could complete a design, build and test it in as little as a year, which should produce an operational reactor in 10 years, McGuire said. A small reactor could power a U.S. Navy warship, and eliminate the need for other fuel sources that pose logistical challenges.

U.S. submarines and aircraft carriers run on nuclear power, but they have large fission reactors on board that have to be replaced on a regular cycle.

"What makes our project really interesting and feasible is that timeline as a potential solution," McGuire said.

Lockheed shares fell 0.6 percent to $175.02 amid a broad market selloff.
Click to expand...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/us-lockheed-fusion-idUSKCN0I41EM20141015

:popcorn:
Click to expand...
Why a decade? Why not 11 years or 9?

 
Since I don't understand the science or engineering aspects of this, the important thing I take out of this news is that we have a major U.S. technology company dedicating resources to the research and not just an Italian ex-con. Now that doesn't mean that Rossi or one of the other dozens of one- and two-man operations won't be the ones to achieve the breakthrough but Lockheed getting into the game -- with some apparent confidence -- indicates to me that the science may indeed be feasible.

Game changer.

 
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Oh god no.

 
dparker713 said:
Bojang0301 said:
timschochet said:
Now this is news. Possibly (hopefully) the biggest news in our lifetimes, not exaggerating. If it's true it could solve all of our energy problems, our global warming problems, our Middle East problems- it could solve everything. What incredible news.

The government should immediately ascertain if this is real, and if it is, we should fund all of Lockheed's research- whatever it costs.
Click to expand...
Lockheed is just going to use it to figure out a way to lock themselves into lucrative contracts with the Navy. Their use of it will be highly questionable in a best case scenario.
Click to expand...
While I'm skeptical of the viability of their design, there is zero chance this would be contained to military uses. The profit potential is just too great for Lockheed. Every commercial plane, every power plant, every truck, every ship - all obsolete.
Click to expand...
That's assuming they can make this affordable (and safe) enough for private/commercial use. Maybe someday, but I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.

 
I'm always excited to hear about breakthroughs on the energy front, but also understand that these projects are on very long timelines with very complex hurdles yet to overcome. It would be fantastic to see something like this in my lifetime.

This is where the capitalist system shines. The breadth of ideas and where they can come from; small companies, large companies, individuals. The money will find the best ideas and support the best options.

 
jonessed said:
I'm always excited to hear about breakthroughs on the energy front, but also understand that these projects are on very long timelines with very complex hurdles yet to overcome. It would be fantastic to see something like this in my lifetime.

This is where the capitalist system shines. The breadth of ideas and where they can come from; small companies, large companies, individuals. The money will find the best ideas and support the best options.
Click to expand...
I agree- to an extent. But they ARE looking for federal help and we should give it to them.

Neither the Manhattan Project nor the space program would have possible as solely business ventures, independent of the government. With projects this big, the government has to become involved.

 
timschochet said:
jonessed said:
I'm always excited to hear about breakthroughs on the energy front, but also understand that these projects are on very long timelines with very complex hurdles yet to overcome. It would be fantastic to see something like this in my lifetime.

This is where the capitalist system shines. The breadth of ideas and where they can come from; small companies, large companies, individuals. The money will find the best ideas and support the best options.
Click to expand...
I agree- to an extent. But they ARE looking for federal help and we should give it to them.

Neither the Manhattan Project nor the space program would have possible as solely business ventures, independent of the government. With projects this big, the government has to become involved.
Click to expand...
They should have the science committee check it out and make sure its legit :mellow:

 
So it turns out that last year, before this new "breakthrough", they were promising basically the same thing in a shorter amount of time.

From this Slate article.

This week, Lockheed Martin supposedly managed to achieve a “breakthrough” in nuclear fusion that has gotten a lot of media attention. As Charles Seife points out, it did so “without having built a prototype device that, you know, fuses things on an appreciable scale. It’s a stunning assertion, even by fusion-research standards. But a quick look at the defense contractor’s ambitious plan—a working reactor in five years—already shows the dream fraying around the edges. A year and a half ago, the company promised that fusion was four years away, meaning that the schedule is already slipping. Negative one years of progress in 20 months is, sadly, business as usual for fusion. At this rate, it’ll take Lockheed Martin at least a decade before the natural endpoint: desperately spinning victory out of an underwhelming result generated by a machine whose performance comes nowhere near predictions—and which brings us no closer to actually generating energy from a fusion reaction.”
Click to expand...
 
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