London Mosque Attack (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

Those are within the last 100 years. I think we should take in to account technology,and inexperience with it, when measuring the loss of life in those conflicts. Now we have apparently reached an equilibrium where we are living in the most peaceful times in regards to war. The only apparent threat to that level of peace, at the moment, is religious conflict.

Before modern war there was nearly 2000 years of documented religious conflict and mankind is now regressing in that regard. Perhaps the answer isn't " man will always find a reason to fight" but that " man will always find a god to kill for".

Im slightly drunk and it's entirely possible I'm making little to no sense but that's how I feel.

As a history teacher, I think your argument has no objective truth to it. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Unfortunately these sort of reprisal attacks (if that is what this is), are exactly what the islamic extremists want (and need) to get the general muslim populace on their side. This moron actually hurt his cause and helped ISIS with this stunt. 

idiots.

Now we have a 17 year old Muslim girl abducted and beaten to death in Virginia with a baseball bat. Sickening.  Also, they caught the suspect and shocker, it was a male.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Unfortunately these sort of reprisal attacks (if that is what this is), are exactly what the islamic extremists want (and need) to get the general muslim populace on their side. This moron actually hurt his cause and helped ISIS with this stunt. 

idiots.

So what exactly are the options? Revenge attacks like this = ISIS wins. Nobody does anything, which collectively as far as I've seen throughout the general public and from a governmental standpoint has been the case, then ISIS wins as they can just keep doing this kind of stuff. In which scenario does ISIS ever lose? Remember, you can't bomb them either, cause that creates more hate/anger/support...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Now we have a 17 year old Muslim girl abducted and beaten to death in Virginia with a baseball bat. Sickening.  Also, they caught the suspect and shocker, it was a male.

link to this story

 

[Thunderlips]

So what exactly are the options? Revenge attacks like this = ISIS wins. Nobody does anything, which collectively as far as I've seen throughout the general public and from a governmental standpoint has been the case, then ISIS wins as they can just keep doing this kind of stuff. In which scenario does ISIS ever lose? Remember, you can't bomb them either, cause that creates more hate/anger/support...

I think it be important that Western leaders draw a line of distinction in their rhetoric between ISIS/Terrorists and Muslims/Islam. 

I think there are some Western leaders who have no interest in doing that.

ISIS loses if:

A) Muslims in the Islamic community stand up and don't allow terrorists to fade into the anonymity of their enclaves.

B) Western political and law enforcement leaders don't paint with broad strokes that "all Muslims are (potentially) bad".

c) Western Civilization leaders makes a firm commitment to help/protect those Muslims who take a very brave stand and expose themselves to the terrorists who might be hiding among their culture anonymously in the name of peace.

 

[Amused to Death]

Now we have a 17 year old Muslim girl abducted and beaten to death in Virginia with a baseball bat. Sickening.  Also, they caught the suspect and shocker, it was a male.

Has our President made any comments yet about either the attack on the mosque or the Muslim girl?

 

[TobiasFunke]

So what exactly are the options? Revenge attacks like this = ISIS wins. Nobody does anything, which collectively as far as I've seen throughout the general public and from a governmental standpoint has been the case, then ISIS wins as they can just keep doing this kind of stuff. In which scenario does ISIS ever lose? Remember, you can't bomb them either, cause that creates more hate/anger/support...

Wrong. If nobody does anything- that is to say if nobody paints the entirety Islamic faith and Middle Eastern culture as responsible for horrible isolated acts of violence, than ISIS loses. 

ISIS is not doing these things because they want to kill a handful of people they don't know.  That's collateral damage, not the goal. They're doing it because they want to cause us to live our lives in fear and compromise our freedom accordingly.  They're doing it to escalate the conflict between West and Islamic radicals to the point where the moderate Muslims who currently side with the West or are neutral feel betrayed by or angry at the West and embrace radicalism instead.

 

[Slapdash]

Odd that a terror attack is only sitting at 2 pages and half of those are drunken ramblings. These things usually are blowing up with "religion of peace" hot takes and the like.

Hmmm, I wonder what is different.

 

[culdeus]

Or the sailors that were killed a few days ago?

Dude has to get in his downtime at mar. 

 

[RokNRole]

As a history teacher, I think your argument has no objective truth to it. 

 I respect your opinion but I humbly disagree. I believe it is not so much a question of history as it is psychology. 

 

[Mookie]

Dude has to get in his downtime at mar. 

GET IN THE HOLE!

 

[urbanhack]

I think it be important that Western leaders draw a line of distinction in their rhetoric between ISIS/Terrorists and Muslims/Islam. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Or the sailors that were killed a few days ago?

I wonder if we'll hear about his Rasmussen approval poll today. 

 

[CurlyNight]

Imam prevents people from beating suspect   

https://twitter.com/i/moments/876722793672450048

They could have easily beaten the suspect to death as he was held down for what one guy said was a very long 10 minutes before police arrived. One guy said it took awhile to get one cop to move on it. How sad is that, to have to practically beg for help. And people wonder why many Muslims are angry. It's such actions or I should say inactions that fuel the fire and creates a divide.

 

[HellToupee]

What a stark contrast in the way the media reported this heinous act

 

[Dr Oadi]

Odd that a terror attack is only sitting at 2 pages and half of those are drunken ramblings. These things usually are blowing up with "religion of peace" hot takes and the like.

I think the problem here is its Monday and not enough fuel for the bolded. 

 

[Dr Oadi]

What a stark contrast in the way the media reported this heinous act

As opposed to the guy known to French authorities who rammed a police van and blew up?

 

[The General]

What a stark contrast in the way the media reported this heinous act

The hardcore Trump crew seems to be a lot less interested.

 

[Dr Oadi]

Yes of course but not on such scale

Pol  Pot and Stalin send their regards.  

 

[T J]

Wrong. If nobody does anything- that is to say if nobody paints the entirety Islamic faith and Middle Eastern culture as responsible for horrible isolated acts of violence, than ISIS loses. 

ISIS is not doing these things because they want to kill a handful of people they don't know.  That's collateral damage, not the goal. They're doing it because they want to cause us to live our lives in fear and compromise our freedom accordingly.  They're doing it to escalate the conflict between West and Islamic radicals to the point where the moderate Muslims who currently side with the West or are neutral feel betrayed by or angry at the West and embrace radicalism instead.

Wrong. ISIS legitimately wants to end the west. You really think their goal is to have the west blame all of Islam? It doesn't matter. They're going to continue to incite and conduct violence regardless if people associate ISIS with Islam or not. They want to kill the infidels. Period.

 

[flapgreen]

It's a "matter." 

 

[flapgreen]

Wrong. If nobody does anything- that is to say if nobody paints the entirety Islamic faith and Middle Eastern culture as responsible for horrible isolated acts of violence, than ISIS loses. 

ISIS is not doing these things because they want to kill a handful of people they don't know.  That's collateral damage, not the goal. They're doing it because they want to cause us to live our lives in fear and compromise our freedom accordingly.  They're doing it to escalate the conflict between West and Islamic radicals to the point where the moderate Muslims who currently side with the West or are neutral feel betrayed by or angry at the West and embrace radicalism instead.

Cause us to live in fear?  It's apparent that you don't know #### about ISIS or Radical Islam.  The Quran says nothing about wanting people to live in fear.  Do you get this from the MSM or something? This is as wrong as wrong can be. 

And lol at the Moderate Muslims siding with the West. That's dumb.  They may not see it like the Radicals see it but they're not siding with us brah. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Cause us to live in fear?  It's apparent that you don't know #### about ISIS or Radical Islam.  The Quran says nothing about wanting people to live in fear.  Do you get this from the MSM or something? This is as wrong as wrong can be. 

And lol at the Moderate Muslims siding with the West. That's dumb.  They may not see it like the Radicals see it but they're not siding with us brah. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Wrong. ISIS legitimately wants to end the west. You really think their goal is to have the west blame all of Islam? It doesn't matter. They're going to continue to incite and conduct violence regardless if people associate ISIS with Islam or not. They want to kill the infidels. Period.

I disagree. I am fully convinced that the goal is to terrorize West and escalate the conflict by goading it into waging full-scale war on Islam. But if you've read a lot and have found a ton of middle eastern and counter-terrorism scholars supporting your perspective I'm happy to read them.

In the meantime here's some recommended reading supporting my perspective:

What ISIS Really Wants (Atlantic Magazine).  Here's what it says about full-scale war on ISIS:

And yet the risks of escalation are enormous. The biggest proponent of an American invasion is the Islamic State itself. The provocative videos, in which a black-hooded executioner addresses President Obama by name, are clearly made to draw America into the fight. An invasion would be a huge propaganda victory for jihadists worldwide: irrespective of whether they have given baya’a to the caliph, they all believe that the United States wants to embark on a modern-day Crusade and kill Muslims. Yet another invasion and occupation would confirm that suspicion, and bolster recruitment

Security Expert: Current Counterterrorism Policy Won't Work Against ISIS (NPR interview with expert in international security and counterterrorism):
 

CRONIN: ... ISIS - one of the reasons why it has the horrendous violence that it has is that they believe that the apocalypse is near. And if we have a large number of Western troops on the ground, that can feed right into their narrative.

CORNISH: So is that your issue - the idea that if there is a huge U.S. presence, Western troop presence, this plays into their hands and is a recruiting tool as well?

CRONIN: Exactly. And it's also very unlikely to solve the problem in the long run. What we're trying to do is truly destroy ISIS. We can set it back by using our remarkable military capabilities, but if what we really want to do is wipe it off the face of the earth - and how can we not given how emotionally upsetting all of these horrendous attacks have been - then we need to think more strategically rather than just act in a knee-jerk way.

Islamic State Aims to Provoke Backlash Against Muslims in West (WSJ)

Washington’s War on the Islamic State Is Only Making It Stronger (Foreign Policy Magazine)

I could go on all day, but this is a small picture.  Happy to provide more if you like. Can you link me to some reading from counterterrorism/Middle East policy experts that says ISIS is just trying to wipe out the West ten people at a time and we should respond with full-scale warfare?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Cause us to live in fear?  It's apparent that you don't know #### about ISIS or Radical Islam.  The Quran says nothing about wanting people to live in fear.  Do you get this from the MSM or something? This is as wrong as wrong can be. 

And lol at the Moderate Muslims siding with the West. That's dumb.  They may not see it like the Radicals see it but they're not siding with us brah. 

Like I said to TJ, I'm open to hearing from other experts in counterterrorism, Islamic Extremism or the Middle East. If you've got articles to support your perspective, let's hear them.

In the meantime here's some more evidence to counter your false assertion that moderate Islam will not side with the West vs radicals:

Moderate Muslims Speak Out against Terrorism (Foreign Policy Association)

(did you know ISIS has killed more Muslims than Westerners?)

The ISIS breakers: How moderate Muslims are countering extremism (Christian Science Monitor)

Help moderate Muslims defeat Islamic extremism (a plea from an Iranian leader)

And I could go on and on if I had time.In the meanwhile, maybe try to tone down the abrasive dooshbaggery?  TIA.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Anyone find all those articles by experts about how ISIS is simply trying to murder Westerners ten at a time and doesn't have a broader goal of terrorizing and provoking Westerners into escalation?

I'd like to think that if people told me I was "wrong ... period" and that I "didn't know ####" and I was "dumb" and "as wrong as wrong can be," they'd be able to back up that talk pretty quickly

 

[HellToupee]

 maybe try to tone down the abrasive dooshbaggery?  TIA.

JFC of all people to post this

 

[TobiasFunke]

JFC of all people to post this

Sorry if I get a little short with you at times.  It's just that I get little edgy waiting for you to drop that big New Hampshire voter fraud report on us.

 

[T J]

I fall in the "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck" school of thought. Sorry. 

 

[urbanhack]

I fall in the "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's a duck" school of thought. Sorry. 

Yea...that's a pretty stupid school of thought to use with humans.

 

[lod001]

Or the sailors that were killed a few days ago?

Man, I hope Trump can give you some new material soon because you are floundering. I wonder when Trump is going to get around the to other 5000+ homicides in the US so far this year.

 

[ArbyMelt]

Now we have a 17 year old Muslim girl abducted and beaten to death in Virginia with a baseball bat. Sickening.  Also, they caught the suspect and shocker, it was a male.

Pretty sure it was an illegal alien that killed her.  Sickening.

 

[HellToupee]

shocker, it was a male.

wat

 

[T J]

Yea...that's a pretty stupid school of thought to use with humans.

Nah. It's spot on. ISIS says they want to kill infidels and then they do it. So yep, I believe that's their goal. Sorry if the analogy is lost on you. 

 

[William Munny]

Nah. It's spot on. ISIS says they want to kill infidels and then they do it. So yep, I believe that's their goal. Sorry if the analogy is lost on you. 

A lot lost on the hack.