Lousiana Science Books with both Evolution and creationism (1 Viewer)

[shader]

I have to give Cawdor credit. That one sentence got 7 straight replies from the resident atheists. Not sure if it's a fishing trip or not, but boy he reeled em in.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Both are ridiculous. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. And yes, I'm taking a bunch of scientists' word for it. But those scientists have performed multiple experiments and tests. They've used tree rings. And ice cores. And atomic isotope dating. And their answers all converge. In other areas of my life, I find it preferable to rely on people who have a certain amount of expertise. For instance, I rely on meteorologists to tell me if it's likely to snow. I rely on doctors to tell me how to treat shingles.

 

[General Malaise]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

And we're off.

Gonna need a bigger boat.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Busted out an alias from day one for this? Must be a slow day.

Lots of fish jumping in the boat too.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Soooo close

 

[jomar]

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

its hard for me to reconcile this stance with your stance in the Santa Monica Xmas display thread. its all the same 'crap' with only slightly varying degrees of crazy

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Busted out an alias from day one for this? Must be a slow day.

Lots of fish jumping in the boat too.

Sorry, it's like catnip.

 

[NCCommish]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

 

[Cawdor]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

And we're off.

Wow. You're right Bob. Never responded before and now I know why. I guess I see things from both sides. I will take the side that is getting piled on. I read somewhere that science has told us that the sun burns gas continuously and is slowly becoming smaller. If it was Billions of years old then it would have started out touching the earth.

 

[GoFishTN]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

 

[General Malaise]

Soooo close

HOW DO YOU HAVE SO MANY OF THESE AT THE READY???

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why do you have such a hard time believing that "stuff" like matter sprang from "nothing", but you have no problem believing that some kind of infinite brain that knows everything and has limitless powers just happened to spring from nothing, and then created everything in the universe, (again, from nothing)?

Christian theology doesn't assert that God sprang from nothing. When God is described as "eternal," that means that he's always existed.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Busted out an alias from day one for this? Must be a slow day.

Lots of fish jumping in the boat too.

Sorry, it's like catnip.

Who can tell the difference anyway? "Any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from a genuine kook."

 

[Todd Andrews]

Primitive anthropomorphism is AWESOME!!

Let's dance!

 

[Cawdor]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Busted out an alias from day one for this? Must be a slow day.

Lots of fish jumping in the boat too.

Sorry, it's like catnip.

Slow day. No alias.The overconfidence that we know we are right got me to bite.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

And we're off.

Wow. You're right Bob. Never responded before and now I know why. I guess I see things from both sides. I will take the side that is getting piled on. I read somewhere that science has told us that the sun burns gas continuously and is slowly becoming smaller. If it was Billions of years old then it would have started out touching the earth.

Must not take bait...

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Christian theology doesn't assert that God sprang from nothing. When God is described as "eternal," that means that he's always existed.

Why couldn't "stuff" just have existed forever? Maybe there's just always been stuff, and from time to time (e.g. every septillion years or so) things just happen to line up right for a universe to form. I mean, if we're just wildly speculating about what might have been, this seems far more likely to be real than some creator-god.

 

[NCCommish]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

And we're off.

Wow. You're right Bob. Never responded before and now I know why. I guess I see things from both sides. I will take the side that is getting piled on. I read somewhere that science has told us that the sun burns gas continuously and is slowly becoming smaller. If it was Billions of years old then it would have started out touching the earth.

You need new sources of information this is standard YE crap that isn't science. The reality is as the Sun gets older it will expand and eventually consume the Earth. That's called a red giant. See stars don't usually get smaller unless they are so big they collapse on themselves and then we call them black holes. So there you go a few minutes in the FFA and you are already more scientifically literate then when you got here.

 

[shader]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

Both are ridiculous. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. And yes, I'm taking a bunch of scientists' word for it. But those scientists have performed multiple experiments and tests. They've used tree rings. And ice cores. And atomic isotope dating. And their answers all converge. In other areas of my life, I find it preferable to rely on people who have a certain amount of expertise. For instance, I rely on meteorologists to tell me if it's likely to snow. I rely on doctors to tell me how to treat shingles.

That's one old tree

 

[cstu]

The animals that lived longer were buried in the top layer of the rock

Animal trying to get into the rock after the flood.

 

[shader]

Why is it so ridiculous that the earth may only be thousands of years old but easy to accept that it is millions of years old? I have read that stated several times here. I find it interesting how everyone will take what someone else says is a fact and defend it with such devotion.

And we're off.

Wow. You're right Bob. Never responded before and now I know why. I guess I see things from both sides. I will take the side that is getting piled on. I read somewhere that science has told us that the sun burns gas continuously and is slowly becoming smaller. If it was Billions of years old then it would have started out touching the earth.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Christian theology doesn't assert that God sprang from nothing. When God is described as "eternal," that means that he's always existed.

Why couldn't "stuff" just have existed forever? Maybe there's just always been stuff, and from time to time (e.g. every septillion years or so) things just happen to line up right for a universe to form. I mean, if we're just wildly speculating about what might have been, this seems far more likely to be real than some creator-god.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted and read further down. That doesn't really answer what I was saying though. When somebody says "I don't see how anything could spring from nothing," there are a lot of good answers to that, but "Well, why do you think God sprang from nothing" isn't one of them since Christians don't believe that God sprang from nothing. That's not the gotcha that you seemed to think it was.

 

[zDragon]

My problem stems from the issue of where did all of that energy/mass come from? I have yet to find a reason for all of that coming from nothing.

Serious question for you, though: Where did your god come from? Why do you have such a hard time believing that "stuff" like matter sprang from "nothing", but you have no problem believing that some kind of infinite brain that knows everything and has limitless powers just happened to spring from nothing, and then created everything in the universe, (again, from nothing)? That doesn't set off any bells for you?

Funny. Both groups believe everything came from nothing. Both show faith in their beliefs.

I don't believe everything came from nothing.

Then what was the initial condition that started it? Where did the original particles come from? Exactly what existed prior to the Big bang?

 

[NCCommish]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Christian theology doesn't assert that God sprang from nothing. When God is described as "eternal," that means that he's always existed.

Why couldn't "stuff" just have existed forever? Maybe there's just always been stuff, and from time to time (e.g. every septillion years or so) things just happen to line up right for a universe to form. I mean, if we're just wildly speculating about what might have been, this seems far more likely to be real than some creator-god.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted and read further down. That doesn't really answer what I was saying though. When somebody says "I don't see how anything could spring from nothing," there are a lot of good answers to that, but "Well, why do you think God sprang from nothing" isn't one of them since Christians don't believe that God sprang from nothing. That's not the gotcha that you seemed to think it was.

It wasn't really meant to be a "gotcha." I expected him to reply that god just always existed.

 

[zDragon]

My problem stems from the issue of where did all of that energy/mass come from? I have yet to find a reason for all of that coming from nothing.

Serious question for you, though: Where did your god come from? Why do you have such a hard time believing that "stuff" like matter sprang from "nothing", but you have no problem believing that some kind of infinite brain that knows everything and has limitless powers just happened to spring from nothing, and then created everything in the universe, (again, from nothing)? That doesn't set off any bells for you?

Funny. Both groups believe everything came from nothing. Both show faith in their beliefs.

It's funny that you don't know what your talking about? Agreed.

No, I don't know what your talking about and truthfully I really don't care.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

My problem stems from the issue of where did all of that energy/mass come from? I have yet to find a reason for all of that coming from nothing.

Serious question for you, though: Where did your god come from? Why do you have such a hard time believing that "stuff" like matter sprang from "nothing", but you have no problem believing that some kind of infinite brain that knows everything and has limitless powers just happened to spring from nothing, and then created everything in the universe, (again, from nothing)? That doesn't set off any bells for you?

Funny. Both groups believe everything came from nothing. Both show faith in their beliefs.

I don't believe everything came from nothing.

Then what was the initial condition that started it? Where did the original particles come from? Exactly what existed prior to the Big bang?

I don't know?

 

[cstu]

Then what was the initial condition that started it? Where did the original particles come from? Exactly what existed prior to the Big bang?

None of us knows this. The issue here is that creationist believe that God came from nothing but refuse to accept that it's just as plausible that the universe came from nothing.

 

[jomar]

My problem stems from the issue of where did all of that energy/mass come from? I have yet to find a reason for all of that coming from nothing.

Serious question for you, though: Where did your god come from? Why do you have such a hard time believing that "stuff" like matter sprang from "nothing", but you have no problem believing that some kind of infinite brain that knows everything and has limitless powers just happened to spring from nothing, and then created everything in the universe, (again, from nothing)? That doesn't set off any bells for you?

Funny. Both groups believe everything came from nothing. Both show faith in their beliefs.

I don't believe everything came from nothing.

Then what was the initial condition that started it? Where did the original particles come from? Exactly what existed prior to the Big bang?

I know this one too!!! I. DON'T. KNOW. all this time in the FFA has made me a smarter man Edit: damn it, IE beat me to it. I'm smart enough, but not quick enough

 

[General Malaise]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

 

[shader]

I just learned something new about "creationism" (6,000 year guys). They believe (most of them) that the Sun was created on day 4 but that vegetation was created on day 3.

I've been dying to ask them how that was possible, as an earth without a sun would be a frozen rock.

Any on this board that would care to explain?

 

[NCCommish]

My take on where did the universe come from theories. No one can say really. If you want to say God set everything in motion and let nature take over no one can really say it didn't go that way. But then you don't get to ignore things like a 4 billion year old Earth and evolution. If you want to go with any of the competing scientific theories no one can say you are wrong but then you are stuck accepting it could be the God thing as well. The reason the God answer doesn't make sense, other than the complete lack of proof, is that the least complex answer is usually the right one and God makes an incredibly complex Universe exponentially more complex.

 

[General Malaise]

I just learned something new about "creationism" (6,000 year guys). They believe (most of them) that the Sun was created on day 4 but that vegetation was created on day 3.

I've been dying to ask them how that was possible, as an earth without a sun would be a frozen rock.

Any on this board that would care to explain?

YOU CANNOT PUT GOD IN A BOX!!!!

 

[shader]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

Some of them even go to college and still believe in God!!!

 

[GoFishTN]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Edit: grammar.

 

[NCCommish]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

GM I think there have been major changes in what these new religious schools teach. They are getting way more fundamental and I don't see how teaching kids the wrong thing doesn't hurt them. Remember Catholics believe in evolution and they teach it in schools. They don't teach the earth is 6k years old and that men rode dinosaurs.

 

[General Malaise]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

Some of them even go to college and still believe in God!!!

Not the ones that did LSD with me.

 

[shader]

My take on where did the universe come from theories. No one can say really. If you want to say God set everything in motion and let nature take over no one can really say it didn't go that way. But then you don't get to ignore things like a 4 billion year old Earth and evolution. If you want to go with any of the competing scientific theories no one can say you are wrong but then you are stuck accepting it could be the God thing as well. The reason the God answer doesn't make sense, other than the complete lack of proof, is that the least complex answer is usually the right one and God makes an incredibly complex Universe exponentially more complex.

What I take for proof, you don't. We have the same data, we just interpret it differently. I see DNA as slam-dunk proof in a creator of DNA. You don't. To each his own. But you should at least acknowledge that there are rational, smart people out there that see it differently than you do.

 

[NCCommish]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah it pretty much does. When you reject Evolution you reject 100+ years of scientific research and testing that has never failed to prove the theory.

 

[General Malaise]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

GM I think there have been major changes in what these new religious schools teach. They are getting way more fundamental and I don't see how teaching kids the wrong thing doesn't hurt them. Remember Catholics believe in evolution and they teach it in schools. They don't teach the earth is 6k years old and that men rode dinosaurs.

That could be. It's been 20 years since I was in college with them and spending weekends at their houses. Most of the kids I knew went to very good private schools which had required mass, etc. I guess the fundamentals are changing the landscape. God help us.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

 

[NCCommish]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Look, I'm as big a non-believer as you are, but I happened to go to college with hundreds of kids who hailed from Louisiana, many to most of them coming from parochial, private schools that were HEAVY on religion/Christianity. But I'm here to tell you that these kids were every bit as competitive intellectually in a very good to great liberal arts college of higher learning than I was as a non-believer. They may be inundated with religion in Louisiana, but they aren't suffering intellectually because of it. Just my 2 cents from my experience.

Jesuit schools have a great rep for producing top students. I don't think being a religious school or going to one automatically makes you dumb. But I think where many of these schools are going is like the home schooling route. I do think they hurt students in that everything is presented as if it comes with the same kind of authority. And by treating this anti-science as if it is valid, it simply isn't. There are now schools in La teaching that dinosaurs and men co-existed less than 10k years ago. And they are getting tax money to do it. Those kids are screwed.

Look, I agree that teaching kids that dinosaurs and man roaming the earth at the same time is just beyond stupid and certainly not something our tax dollars should be supporting. But I don't think that's the only thing being taught to these kids, nor do I think religion taking an active role in education in Louisiana is a terribly new concept and one set to ruin the children. Every single kid I ever met from the city of New Orleans went to private school. If you have the means, you do NOT send yours kids to public school in New Orleans. That is the way it has always been as far as I can remember. These private schools are all affiliated with religion, mostly Catholicism. And yet these kids go into colleges and become doctors, lawyers, leaders in business, etc. I don't think religious education is setting them back.

GM I think there have been major changes in what these new religious schools teach. They are getting way more fundamental and I don't see how teaching kids the wrong thing doesn't hurt them. Remember Catholics believe in evolution and they teach it in schools. They don't teach the earth is 6k years old and that men rode dinosaurs.

That could be. It's been 20 years since I was in college with them and spending weekends at their houses. Most of the kids I knew went to very good private schools which had required mass, etc. I guess the fundamentals are changing the landscape. God help us.

I went to Catholic school for kindergarten. I stayed ahead of the public school kids for a long time. Again I just think these schools and their intent is much different than what we knew as kids.

 

[GoFishTN]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

What else are they rejecting? Physics? Genetics? Gravity itself?

No. It's simply a liberal talking point meant to belittle their opposition's intelligence.

 

[Jose C]

These forums and the Internet are protected by God. I find this topic difficult to read.

 

[shader]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

So if I don't believe that a cell evolved into a human using only random mutation and natural selection than I've rejected all science?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

What else are they rejecting? Physics? Genetics? Gravity itself?

No. It's simply a liberal talking point meant to belittle their opposition's intelligence.

You're rejecting Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Anthropology, Archaeology and pretty much anything else that relates to them.Oh wait, you're just rejecting portions of those, right? The parts you don't agree with aren't right but the rest of it is?

 

[freakinback]

I just learned something new about "creationism" (6,000 year guys). They believe (most of them) that the Sun was created on day 4 but that vegetation was created on day 3. I've been dying to ask them how that was possible, as an earth without a sun would be a frozen rock. Any on this board that would care to explain?

The plants thawed out. This is not rocket surgery people.

 

[shader]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

What else are they rejecting? Physics? Genetics? Gravity itself?

No. It's simply a liberal talking point meant to belittle their opposition's intelligence.

You're rejecting Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Anthropology, Archaeology and pretty much anything else that relates to them.Oh wait, you're just rejecting portions of those, right? The parts you don't agree with aren't right but the rest of it is?

Chemistry? Physics?

 

[The_Burning_Bush]

I guess I don't see what's so nation destroyingly bad. The book clearly outlines both sides of the arguement and lets the kids decide which they want to believe. At least it's balanced.

 

[sporthenry]

This isn't a public school textbook, is it?

From what I've read this is a textbook that is used in privates schools. However, Louisiana has a voucher system where taxpayer money can be used to pay for private school tuition. Technically the schools that use books like this are receiving public moneys.I could be wrong though.

No you're right:

Fifth graders in some state-sponsored schools in Louisiana study both creationism and evolution as competing theories.

This crap is destroying our ability to compete as a nation. We turn out kids who still believe fantasies that are best suited for the 15 century not the 21st.

Of all the things destroying our ability to compete, this is very, very low on the list.

That's where you are wrong. As more scientific illiterates demand that school represent their "beliefs" in the classroom more children are taught decidedly wrong things. It affects their ability to be competitive in a world where everything relies on the science their parents dismiss because the Bible tells them to.

This is a tired talking point. Rejecting evolution or global warming does not mean you are anti-science or that you dismiss all science, even if you are wrong on those issues.And I'm certain that laziness and apathy are certainly bigger problems among our youth than their scientific beliefs.

Yeah, it pretty much does.

What else are they rejecting? Physics? Genetics? Gravity itself?

No. It's simply a liberal talking point meant to belittle their opposition's intelligence.

It does make them look less intelligence. You make the extreme case that rejecting evolution doesn't mean they are rejecting gravity but to a scientist it is no different. Rejecting either is laughable to them. The funny part is people reject evolution yet take drugs which are tested on animals based upon the belief that we have a common ancestor so if it cures aids in an animal it will have similar effects in humans. Similarly we trust scientists with nuclear energy and that they know what they are doing with uranium but we don't trust them with the more basic carbon dating based upon the same information we use to harness our nuclear energy.