Lowball Initial Trade Offers! (1 Viewer)

[stp-d]

As FF team owners, we act as GM's of a virtual organization. Negotiations/trading is apart of being a GM, and they usually START with one of the following:

1.) Team A sends a lowball offer to Team B

2.) Team A sends equal value offer to Team B (same position, Ex: RB for RB)

3.) Team A sends equal value offer to Team B (fills holes, Ex: trade excess RB for needed WR)

4.) Team A sends too much value offer to Team B

5.) Team A sends a message saying their interested in Team B player(s)

I'll start by stating some obvious Benefits & Negatives to each:

#1, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. No buyers remorse. Overall team value increases if accepted. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Negotiation often necessary.

#2, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Possible Buyers Remorse. Overall team value remains constant if accepted. Negotiation sometimes necessary.

#3, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. Overall Team value increases if accepted. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Possible Buyers Remorse. Negotiation sometimes necessary.

#4, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. Negotiation not necessary. No insulting other owners. NEGATIVES: Buyers remorse. Overall team value decreases if accepted.

#5, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. No buyers remorse. No insulting other owners. NEGATIVES: Negotiation often necessary.

IMO, maximizing team value in order to win is key to FF, why else would we subscribe to FBG?

#1 is the best option to ensure highest value, but sometimes insults the other owner.

#2 doesn't increase team value, so your just as good not making the deal.

#3 is a good method, although you could leave value on the table, but a hole was filled.

#4 is not good, because team value is decreasing because you paid too much and your team lost value.

#5 is the best option if you want to remain neutral, you leave all the work to the other guy and no one gets hurt, although it often leads to Team B requesting you make an offer which brings you back to options 1-4.

Now to the questions I propose to those interested in the topic:

- Are Lowball initial offers a part of Fantasy Football or are they bad for the game as they may insult other owners?

- You can intend to send a fair offer and they still might get insulted because variation in ramkings/opinions, is it even worth sending a "fair" offer?

- Is the only way to avoid offending someone just to follow #5?

- Is it wrong to say people need to stop being so sensitive about trade offers. That's what the counter or reject buttons are for & just fill in the comments section to advise of your thoughts on the offer, without starting a pissing match.

 

[Sweet Love]

Before the guys who say "do you enjoy ripping people off" enter the thread, i throw back the example about buying a car...do you walk in and say, "I want to pay sticker price"? Of course not. You try to get the best deal possible. I don't think it is in the best interests of throwing out a lowball offer, but in the same breath, I think it is silly to wallk away saying "wow, I gave him a lot in return for player x...I am sure he must be happy".

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Before the guys who say "do you enjoy ripping people off" enter the thread, i throw back the example about buying a car...do you walk in and say, "I want to pay sticker price"? Of course not. You try to get the best deal possible. I don't think it is in the best interests of throwing out a lowball offer, but in the same breath, I think it is silly to wallk away saying "wow, I gave him a lot in return for player x...I am sure he must be happy".

It's totally different.You can get a Nissan Maxima from many different places. So who cares if you lowball a dealership on a car? You won't get the car for your price, but you can always drive 10 miles to another dealership and try your luck there. In a league, you can only get Calvin Johnson from one person, and if you knowingly* ripped off said person in the past, they'll be hesitant to deal with you in the future. It's just bad business.* - knowingly is important here. Well-intentioned deals end up being ripoffs all the time. Those certainly aren't the fault of the "winner" of the trade.

 

[barista]

It's another example of the subjectiveness of fantasy football. It's like trade vetoing. If I offer Calvin Johnson for Adrien Peterson I KNOW some people would consider that insulting, but in a PPR league with 4pt TDs it's really not insulting.

People often assess based on the following:

ADP

POINTS

HOUSEHOLD NAME

POSITION (SUPPLY AND DEMAND)

It's really marketing and the thing to remember is that it's ALL speculation. You're wanting future performance, not past statistics.

And you can always say no without having hurt feelings.

 

[Mainevent]

Everybody wants to come out on top on a trade, or at least feel they improved their team... and there so many variables when trading with someone. I find trading usually requires long negotiation (when dealing players of substantial value).

Everyone values players differently, and usually owners value their own players more than others would, and I say usually. I usually start by sending a trade offer followed by some comments, suggesting why the trade would be beneficial to both parties, as otherwise why would the other person trade. If there is interest, usually it takes a few counter-offers to get a deal done, rarely have I found my first offer get accepted instantly, and rarely have I accepted any initial offers.

I don't see the 'first' offer to be a low ball offer, I usually take the first offer as a starting point. Realistically, who ever puts out their best offer first, and I go by that, knowing that I wouldn't and I wouldn't expect the person trading with me to either. So, initial offers are usually used to gauge/determine interest.

Before sending an offer I feel it is in the best interest of the person offering the trade to take a look at the other teams roster/situation/plan for the season (and beyond for dynasty leagues). Put yourself in their shoes and see if it makes sense to accept a trade.

To answer your questions (if I haven't already), low ball offers are a part of the game, and should only be seen as a way to initiate trades. I would always try to gauge how the other person feels about a particular player before sending an offer, or at least follow my offer with some comments to suggest why the trade is 'fair'. I don't think #5 is the only way to trade, all depends who you are trading with, you have to know your league members, critical. I agree, if someone doesn't like a trade... hit reject, if there is some interest counter with something they feel is 'fair', but thus is not always the case... again I think after a couple offers its easy to get an idea how a person will react to a trade offer.

 

[Gottabesweet]

I normally send a bad player for the player I'm targeting and then in the message box type "what do you want for PLAYER X"

They normally respond, make an offer, then I start low.

I like the owners that send an offer right away for that player, then we see where eachother stand. Different owners have different values for various players so its interesting to see how they value the guys on their squads

 

[Sweet Love]

Before the guys who say "do you enjoy ripping people off" enter the thread, i throw back the example about buying a car...do you walk in and say, "I want to pay sticker price"? Of course not. You try to get the best deal possible. I don't think it is in the best interests of throwing out a lowball offer, but in the same breath, I think it is silly to wallk away saying "wow, I gave him a lot in return for player x...I am sure he must be happy".

It's totally different.You can get a Nissan Maxima from many different places. So who cares if you lowball a dealership on a car? You won't get the car for your price, but you can always drive 10 miles to another dealership and try your luck there. In a league, you can only get Calvin Johnson from one person, and if you knowingly* ripped off said person in the past, they'll be hesitant to deal with you in the future. It's just bad business.* - knowingly is important here. Well-intentioned deals end up being ripoffs all the time. Those certainly aren't the fault of the "winner" of the trade.

I see your point, but isn't AJ3000 or Fitz a "Calvin Johnson" too? I am not saying offer jamal Lewis for CJ in a keeper for , but I would try Ryan Grant before I threw Matt Forte out there. You never know how your opponent values a specific player, and if you go high (or really equal), you could be leaving something on the table.

 

[sgtrobo]

If you don't know the owner and you lowball, no big deal. You might be amazed how some people view players' value. One person's trash is another's treasure, and all that.

however, if you continuously send lowball offers, you aren't going to get anywhere, and you'll get ignored.

I don't see any reason to be insulted. I sent an offer prior to the 2008 season, I give Roddy White + Reggie Wayne, I get Randy Moss and a pick. The guy went on a tirade, started swearing at me, etc. etc because he was so offended that I dare "lowball him" in offering for Randy Moss. I eventually laughed my head off and thanked God that he didn't accept my drug-induced offer (just had neck surgery about a week before, perkosets are a mofo!)

anyway, I digress. It's all about trying to interpret player's value. If you have Wes Welker in a PPR league and a new guy to your league (who never has played PPR) may not value Welker properly. If yuo're in a league that gives points for return yardage, guys like Leon Washington and Eddie Royal and Steve Breaston are probably viewed as barely start-able, when in reality they're all top 10 at their positions (Depending upon the return yard points)

don't worry about lowballing someone on a first offer. You'll eventually learn who/what they value, and then you can work your trades accordingly. I'd rather lowball first then offer far too much value.

 

[Captain Hook]

People would do a lot better in their trades if the actually tried COMMUNICATING with the other owners in their league.....Pick up a phone and talk Football with the other owner......pretty easy to find out how they view their team and players and get to a position where you can either make a deal while talking or to follow up with a specific trade offer that will work for both teams.

IMO sending lowball offers or stupid emails is the lazy approach - and as a result doesn't work very well

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Before the guys who say "do you enjoy ripping people off" enter the thread, i throw back the example about buying a car...do you walk in and say, "I want to pay sticker price"? Of course not. You try to get the best deal possible. I don't think it is in the best interests of throwing out a lowball offer, but in the same breath, I think it is silly to wallk away saying "wow, I gave him a lot in return for player x...I am sure he must be happy".

It's totally different.You can get a Nissan Maxima from many different places. So who cares if you lowball a dealership on a car? You won't get the car for your price, but you can always drive 10 miles to another dealership and try your luck there. In a league, you can only get Calvin Johnson from one person, and if you knowingly* ripped off said person in the past, they'll be hesitant to deal with you in the future. It's just bad business.* - knowingly is important here. Well-intentioned deals end up being ripoffs all the time. Those certainly aren't the fault of the "winner" of the trade.

I see your point, but isn't AJ3000 or Fitz a "Calvin Johnson" too? I am not saying offer jamal Lewis for CJ in a keeper for , but I would try Ryan Grant before I threw Matt Forte out there. You never know how your opponent values a specific player, and if you go high (or really equal), you could be leaving something on the table.

Agreed. It depends on what the OP considers "lowball". There's insulting lowball (I offer TJ Housh for Larry Fitz in a redraft), and there's reasonable lowball (TJ Housh and Ryan Grant for Larry Fitz). The first offer, there's no reasonable scenario where the Fitz owner would do that deal. Plus it hinders your ability to do future deals, because every offer you send, even those you consider "fair", will be looked at with more scrutiny, because you now have a bad trading rep.The second one is probably not equal trade value, but it's also not an unreasonable offer depending on circumstances. Maybe the Fitz owner has bad RBs or a rash of injuries, who knows? There's nothing wrong with this "lowball" offer IMO.Basically, it's all about degrees.

 

[TheFanatic]

If two people have a very different opinion of a player one guy could feel lowballed and the other feel like he made a good offer.

But to consistently offer bad trade after bad trade and use it as a starting point can backfire big time in that the owner that gets the offer may assume that he and the other owner are too far apart on the value of a player to negotiate at all. Most of the time I don't counter a low ball offer at all. I figure that if the person is coming in that low, there is no way for me to get commensurate value from the other owner.

One thing I do with pretty much every trade I decline I explain my thought process. LEt the other owner know for example that I realize that Warner may only have a year or two left but I'm from St. Louis and the guy has added value to me over what he does on the field. Or when I get offers for Welker in Hyper Active 1 which is a PPR I tell people that he is not just some mid tier WR. He's probably the most consistent point producer in a PPR format and thus he is almost untradeable unless I get absolutely wowed. Or those that offer a trade for Addai I will say that I realize they just drafted the kid, but Saturday should be behind center all year and I expect him to rebound. If I sell now I feel I would be selling low. That sort of thing.

 

[Deuceman]

I usually try to send out offers that will not require the back and forth banter that comes with negotiating deals. When I send out a deal I always ask myself would I accept the same trade in return if the teams were reversed (I had his, he had mines).

But it still never ceases to amaze me the value people put on some players. I consider all players tradable and offer accordingly with very good offers depending on the player.

A couple of deals I have offered as the initial deal in the last few days, both were turned down I might add.....

I give:

MBIII, Calvin and 2010 #1

I get:

ADP and Chester

I give:

MBIII, Benson, Scheffler, 2010 #1

I get

Gore and Keller

Both of these deals were very good initial offers that IMO should have been sealed without a counter, I guess not though.

 

[Riffraff]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.

I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).

The Boldin owner offers:

Boldin

for

WR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pick

I valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.

I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.

Fitzgerald

for

WR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)

In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.

Boldin was traded recently for about half of what the other owner was trying to get out of me. Low-balling (in my eyes) left a deal undone. Overpaying or puting out a trade that I thought would get the job done... did. Count me in the group that prefers straight forward trading. Tell me what you are willing to pay and I'll tell you if it's the right amount. I guess I don't enjoy the salesman routine, but will settle for a little bit of haggling.

Trades come down to perceived value. Those values come if different forms (draft picks, studs, quantity of role players, exchange of power positons, etc). Getting to know the trade partner is probably tougher than getting a deal done. Hard to insult someone if you know what they value and send an appropriate value their way. I agree with the poster that said that sending lowball offers is just being lazy.

 

[TheFanatic]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).The Boldin owner offers:BoldinforWR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pickI valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.FitzgeraldforWR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.Boldin was traded recently for about half of what the other owner was trying to get out of me. Low-balling (in my eyes) left a deal undone. Overpaying or puting out a trade that I thought would get the job done... did. Count me in the group that prefers straight forward trading. Tell me what you are willing to pay and I'll tell you if it's the right amount. I guess I don't enjoy the salesman routine, but will settle for a little bit of haggling.Trades come down to perceived value. Those values come if different forms (draft picks, studs, quantity of role players, exchange of power positons, etc). Getting to know the trade partner is probably tougher than getting a deal done. Hard to insult someone if you know what they value and send an appropriate value their way. I agree with the poster that said that sending lowball offers is just being lazy.

Avery and two first rounders for Fitz, plus Hester who will have Cutler throwing to him? I can see why the guy didn't haggle at all. I would've jumped all over that...

 

[Darker Knight]

As FF team owners, we act as GM's of a virtual organization. Negotiations/trading is apart of being a GM, and they usually START with one of the following:

1.) Team A sends a lowball offer to Team B

2.) Team A sends equal value offer to Team B (same position, Ex: RB for RB)

3.) Team A sends equal value offer to Team B (fills holes, Ex: trade excess RB for needed WR)

4.) Team A sends too much value offer to Team B

5.) Team A sends a message saying their interested in Team B player(s)

I'll start by stating some obvious Benefits & Negatives to each:

#1, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. No buyers remorse. Overall team value increases if accepted. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Negotiation often necessary.

#2, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Possible Buyers Remorse. Overall team value remains constant if accepted. Negotiation sometimes necessary.

#3, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. Overall Team value increases if accepted. NEGATIVES: Some owners get insulted. Possible Buyers Remorse. Negotiation sometimes necessary.

#4, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. Negotiation not necessary. No insulting other owners. NEGATIVES: Buyers remorse. Overall team value decreases if accepted.

#5, BENEFITS: Communicates interest. No buyers remorse. No insulting other owners. NEGATIVES: Negotiation often necessary.

IMO, maximizing team value in order to win is key to FF, why else would we subscribe to FBG?

#1 is the best option to ensure highest value, but sometimes insults the other owner.

#2 doesn't increase team value, so your just as good not making the deal.

#3 is a good method, although you could leave value on the table, but a hole was filled.

#4 is not good, because team value is decreasing because you paid too much and your team lost value.

#5 is the best option if you want to remain neutral, you leave all the work to the other guy and no one gets hurt, although it often leads to Team B requesting you make an offer which brings you back to options 1-4.

Now to the questions I propose to those interested in the topic:

- Are Lowball initial offers a part of Fantasy Football or are they bad for the game as they may insult other owners?

- You can intend to send a fair offer and they still might get insulted because variation in ramkings/opinions, is it even worth sending a "fair" offer?

- Is the only way to avoid offending someone just to follow #5?

- Is it wrong to say people need to stop being so sensitive about trade offers. That's what the counter or reject buttons are for & just fill in the comments section to advise of your thoughts on the offer, without starting a pissing match.

So you send low-ball offers and it has been pissing of so owners in your league(s)....I don't get insulted by low-ball offers but it makes me unlikely to want to make deals with owners like that in the future...

 

[Tau837]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).The Boldin owner offers:BoldinforWR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pickI valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.FitzgeraldforWR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.Boldin was traded recently for about half of what the other owner was trying to get out of me. Low-balling (in my eyes) left a deal undone. Overpaying or puting out a trade that I thought would get the job done... did. Count me in the group that prefers straight forward trading. Tell me what you are willing to pay and I'll tell you if it's the right amount. I guess I don't enjoy the salesman routine, but will settle for a little bit of haggling.Trades come down to perceived value. Those values come if different forms (draft picks, studs, quantity of role players, exchange of power positons, etc). Getting to know the trade partner is probably tougher than getting a deal done. Hard to insult someone if you know what they value and send an appropriate value their way. I agree with the poster that said that sending lowball offers is just being lazy.

Avery and two first rounders for Fitz, plus Hester who will have Cutler throwing to him? I can see why the guy didn't haggle at all. I would've jumped all over that...

Interesting. I think he won that deal handily, particularly since he mentioned he won 2008 without Fitz, suggesting that his own first rounder will be a late first rounder. Our different views perfectly illustrates the whole bit about different owners valuing players and picks differently.

 

[Pipes]

Before the guys who say "do you enjoy ripping people off" enter the thread, i throw back the example about buying a car...do you walk in and say, "I want to pay sticker price"? Of course not. You try to get the best deal possible. I don't think it is in the best interests of throwing out a lowball offer, but in the same breath, I think it is silly to wallk away saying "wow, I gave him a lot in return for player x...I am sure he must be happy".

True,But you don't go into a dealership and offer $10,000 for a $20,000 car either. I like receiving as many offers as I can but if it's an absolutely ridiculously low offer without the owner puting much thought behind it I'll be less likely to negociate with them.

 

[Mimo]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).The Boldin owner offers:BoldinforWR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pickI valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.FitzgeraldforWR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.Boldin was traded recently for about half of what the other owner was trying to get out of me. Low-balling (in my eyes) left a deal undone. Overpaying or puting out a trade that I thought would get the job done... did. Count me in the group that prefers straight forward trading. Tell me what you are willing to pay and I'll tell you if it's the right amount. I guess I don't enjoy the salesman routine, but will settle for a little bit of haggling.Trades come down to perceived value. Those values come if different forms (draft picks, studs, quantity of role players, exchange of power positons, etc). Getting to know the trade partner is probably tougher than getting a deal done. Hard to insult someone if you know what they value and send an appropriate value their way. I agree with the poster that said that sending lowball offers is just being lazy.

Avery and two first rounders for Fitz, plus Hester who will have Cutler throwing to him? I can see why the guy didn't haggle at all. I would've jumped all over that...

Both owners were happy is how I look at it.............But more importantly is Riffraff has Fitz and the other players don't.

 

[Darker Knight]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).The Boldin owner offers:BoldinforWR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pickI valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.FitzgeraldforWR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.Boldin was traded recently for about half of what the other owner was trying to get out of me. Low-balling (in my eyes) left a deal undone. Overpaying or puting out a trade that I thought would get the job done... did. Count me in the group that prefers straight forward trading. Tell me what you are willing to pay and I'll tell you if it's the right amount. I guess I don't enjoy the salesman routine, but will settle for a little bit of haggling.Trades come down to perceived value. Those values come if different forms (draft picks, studs, quantity of role players, exchange of power positons, etc). Getting to know the trade partner is probably tougher than getting a deal done. Hard to insult someone if you know what they value and send an appropriate value their way. I agree with the poster that said that sending lowball offers is just being lazy.

Avery and two first rounders for Fitz, plus Hester who will have Cutler throwing to him? I can see why the guy didn't haggle at all. I would've jumped all over that...

I own Fitz and I would not do that trade.....Avery will maybe be a good #3 FF WR 2 unknown 1st rounders and Hester who at his best will be a #3 FF WR is no even close for me...But a Proven Stud like Fitz has more value to me than a bunch of ??????

 

[purplehaze67]

I normally send a bad player for the player I'm targeting and then in the message box type "what do you want for PLAYER X" They normally respond, make an offer, then I start low.I like the owners that send an offer right away for that player, then we see where eachother stand. Different owners have different values for various players so its interesting to see how they value the guys on their squads

Nothing against that if it works for you, but that's a big peeve of mine. If the other guy is coming to me for someone on my roster, I'm not likely to initiate the legwork necessary to get a deal done. If I say "make an offer" and it's a lowball, it's just flat rejected and talks are pretty much dead in the water.If I was looking to deal PLAYER X, I'd already be shopping him to all other teams. You want to pry him away from me? Make me an offer I can't refuse...

 

[sgtrobo]

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I'll use the Arizona WR duo as an example.I was seeking a studly WR to add to my line-up (non-PPR dynasty league).The Boldin owner offers:BoldinforWR Bowe, WR Clayton (BAL), and 2010 1.xx draft pickI valued Bowe very closely to Boldin, probably a little more since I already owned him. Seemed like a lowball offer from my point of view, but the other owner thought that Boldin was worth all that. I countered with a lesser WR than Bowe, but it's not what the other owner was looking for.

I'd give a slight bonus to the Bowe/2010 1st, but only if it was an earlier 1st rounder. I'm not that high on Boldin, but less so on Bowe

I did end up trading for Fitzgerald with what I think is a very fair offer and the other owner accepted it without any haggling required. The Fitz owner had a huge man crush on Fitz as well.FitzgeraldforWR Avery, WR Hester, 2010 1.xx pick (mine), 2010 1.xx pick (another owner's)In a RB slanted dynasty league, that is a lot to pay for a WR (non-PPR). I may have overpaid in some eyes because I didn't actually need Fitz for a championship caliber team (I won 2008 without him). Some would say I got a steal.

I do not see any possible format where I would've considered taking that offer as the Fitz owner, unless my team was really hurting for depth and I needed to rebuild, or if those 1st rounders were early picks.ESPECIALLY in a dynasty. Fitz is as close to a guarantee as exists in fantasy football. hester is an incredibly poor route runner who will never be a true WR, and Avery is on a horrible offense with a horrible QB, and he still has to learn to run routes. Fitz is top 3 in any format, and will likely outscore Hester and Avery combined.

Avery and two first rounders for Fitz, plus Hester who will have Cutler throwing to him? I can see why the guy didn't haggle at all. I would've jumped all over that...

I own Fitz and I would not do that trade.....Avery will maybe be a good #3 FF WR 2 unknown 1st rounders and Hester who at his best will be a #3 FF WR is no even close for me...But a Proven Stud like Fitz has more value to me than a bunch of ??????

exactly. agreed thoroughly.

 

[FUBAR]

I normally send a bad player for the player I'm targeting and then in the message box type "what do you want for PLAYER X"

They normally respond, make an offer, then I start low.

I like the owners that send an offer right away for that player, then we see where eachother stand. Different owners have different values for various players so its interesting to see how they value the guys on their squads

Nothing against that if it works for you, but that's a big peeve of mine. If the other guy is coming to me for someone on my roster, I'm not likely to initiate the legwork necessary to get a deal done. If I say "make an offer" and it's a lowball, it's just flat rejected and talks are pretty much dead in the water.

If I was looking to deal PLAYER X, I'd already be shopping him to all other teams. You want to pry him away from me? Make me an offer I can't refuse...

I guess, but I rarely am actively shopping all of my available players. I do like the trade bait function on MFL for this reason, but not everyone uses it. If I get a lowball offer, I just respond with a list of players I'm interested in on the other team and let to inquiring owner figure out the true initial offer. If he has someone I'm very interested in, I usually respond as such.

Example:

X: offers a rookie 3rd for Eddie Royal

Me: email "of course not, but I am interested in DeSean Jackson, Avery, Gore, and Cutler... I like Royal more than any of this except Gore, put something together and I'll listen"

X: (usually) offers DeSean and the rookie 3rd for Royal

Me: I counter with Royal a rookie 3rd for DeSean and Avery...

 

[sgtrobo]

ok, now THIS is a lowball offer (just received it)

Deion Branch + Mike Wallace + 2010 1st rounder

for

Randy Moss

start 3 WRs + 1 flex, PPR league

Not offended, I just laughed and countered. I replaced Deion Branch with Calvin Johnson.

 

[mcd]

In a Dynasty Auction Salary Cap league it becomes even more difficult to know if your offending people or not. Not only are you trading players, but your also trading values. I've had Manning offered to me with his $70 salary for M. Schaub, Kevin Smith & Ray Rice (who combine for approx. $60 in salary). It's hard to explain that I wouldn't even do Schaub & his $10 salary for Manning, much less the 2 young RBs. When teams are that far apart it's hard to find a middle ground.

 

[Da Guru]

I never get insulted by a lowball offer..I always start off a deal with a lowball offer myself. Then I offer the players I was ready to deal and the owner feels like I have caved in.

When the lowball is accepted it is an added bonus.

 

[krsone21]

I'm not offended by low-ball offers. I have no problem with low-ball offers. I just send a counter offer and we go from there. Really not a big deal. It doesn't bother me as much as others I guess.

 

[netnalp]

Salary negotiation books I've read say studies show the person that talks dollar value first usually loses. With that in mind I usually put it on the other person to talk value first. I approach with "What do you want for X?" or "Who on my team are you interested in". If they approach me I just say "Give an offer and we can see what we can do"

Things that irritate me are:

When I counter a lowball offer and the owner counters with a similar lowball or just says forget it. Ex. Redraft last year. Offer: Troy Williamson for Brandon Jacobs, Counter: Jennings For Jacobs. He counters with Ronald Curry for Jacobs

People that try to trade me all their backups that aren't startable for a stud.

Spamming the same trade. Booted this guy from the league. He'd send the same trade to a team 30+ times, he hoped the person would accidently hit accept rather than decline. I booted him.

 

[mggoilers]

Trade offers have to start somewhere. The problem I have when making deals is the other owners. I know the value of my players and players around my league. Getting the other owner up to speed on player values is the challenge. Saying that, a teaser email is my initial approach, so I gauge interest while not completely tipping my hand

 

[jwb]

I usually don't like the lowball negotiation. Nor do I like the "I want your player... what would it take?"

I like it when people make solid/fair offers for players they want. Because that's what I do. I realize values can fluctuate and we can negotiate some, but if someone is obviously lowballing, I usually reject and move on without countering. I'm just not playing that "what would it take?" game.

I trade with the mindset of "If you want the player, then go after him."

 

[gregjcross]

If you don't know the owner and you lowball, no big deal. You might be amazed how some people view players' value. One person's trash is another's treasure, and all that.however, if you continuously send lowball offers, you aren't going to get anywhere, and you'll get ignored.I don't see any reason to be insulted. I sent an offer prior to the 2008 season, I give Roddy White + Reggie Wayne, I get Randy Moss and a pick. The guy went on a tirade, started swearing at me, etc. etc because he was so offended that I dare "lowball him" in offering for Randy Moss. I eventually laughed my head off and thanked God that he didn't accept my drug-induced offer (just had neck surgery about a week before, perkosets are a mofo!)anyway, I digress. It's all about trying to interpret player's value. If you have Wes Welker in a PPR league and a new guy to your league (who never has played PPR) may not value Welker properly. If yuo're in a league that gives points for return yardage, guys like Leon Washington and Eddie Royal and Steve Breaston are probably viewed as barely start-able, when in reality they're all top 10 at their positions (Depending upon the return yard points)don't worry about lowballing someone on a first offer. You'll eventually learn who/what they value, and then you can work your trades accordingly. I'd rather lowball first then offer far too much value.

It is just a matter of answering the question: Is "Stupid" insulting? Ultra low offers push people's buttons because they insult their intelligence. Now, if its for a #5WR, no big deal--offer anything. But when fellow league GM tries to tell me what my team needs are and why I "need to trade" for their crappy player to round out my team, it is merely an exercise in lameness.If you want a player, come a bit strong. Yeah dont load for bear on very first offer, but dont waste my time offering Tim Hightower and Vernon Davis for a guy like DeAngelo Williams --just because it looks like I need another TE. (no that was not a real offer--but I have actually seen worse reasoning!!)

 

[Riffraff]

I do not see any possible format where I would've considered taking that offer as the Fitz owner, unless my team was really hurting for depth and I needed to rebuild, or if those 1st rounders were early picks.

The other team is really hurting for depth (especially with Burress, Stallworth, and Matt Jones off-season activities), definitely rebuilding (5th worst power ranking before those WRs did stupid stuff), and one of the 1st rounders was a team that selected at 1.05 this year (with possible Lynch and Marshall suspensions looming).

 

[DoubleG]

People would do a lot better in their trades if the actually tried COMMUNICATING with the other owners in their league.....Pick up a phone and talk Football with the other owner......pretty easy to find out how they view their team and players and get to a position where you can either make a deal while talking or to follow up with a specific trade offer that will work for both teams.

IMO sending lowball offers or stupid emails is the lazy approach - and as a result doesn't work very well

Most of the time, I find it easier to make a trade via phone rather than via email. You can hear the pause/hesitation or excitement when certain players are mentioned, included, etc. Plus it can be quicker - you usually can tell in just a few minutes how far apart or how close you are, rather than spending several days emailing back and forth.

Secondly, as many have said, a low-ball offer may not be to the other owner anyway. People rate players differently. I do try to look at the other teams roster first and if I am going to "low-ball" with my initial offer, I will at least offer a position he is weak at - if he values depth, he may see it as a need.

Also, people that are "insulted" by low-ball offers are often just being silly or arrogant. Again, I have made what I consider a good offer, only to be accused of low-balling - when in fact, in my opinion, the offer was fair. People value players differently. There are times when I thought I was being low-balled, but when the other owner explained his rational, it made sense (which again, goes to communicating and trying to address a need on the other owners team).

 

[Football Jones]

It's silly to truly get offended by an offer. The vast majority of the time, the other person simply views your player at a lesser value than you do (sometimes rightly so, LOL). I also don't understand those who dislike a leaguemate asking "what would you take for so & so." What's wrong with someone getting a little info before making an offer (or NOT making an offer)? This is a hobby (albeit a serious one) & I have other things in my life to juggle. If I can save some time finding out what an owner might be interested in, then it can only help (both of us).

In the end, making a negative remark about an offer can only hurt you. It alienates people, & besides that, it's just plain rude, IMO.

 

[purplehaze67]

I normally send a bad player for the player I'm targeting and then in the message box type "what do you want for PLAYER X"

They normally respond, make an offer, then I start low.

I like the owners that send an offer right away for that player, then we see where eachother stand. Different owners have different values for various players so its interesting to see how they value the guys on their squads

Nothing against that if it works for you, but that's a big peeve of mine. If the other guy is coming to me for someone on my roster, I'm not likely to initiate the legwork necessary to get a deal done. If I say "make an offer" and it's a lowball, it's just flat rejected and talks are pretty much dead in the water.

If I was looking to deal PLAYER X, I'd already be shopping him to all other teams. You want to pry him away from me? Make me an offer I can't refuse...

I guess, but I rarely am actively shopping all of my available players. I do like the trade bait function on MFL for this reason, but not everyone uses it. If I get a lowball offer, I just respond with a list of players I'm interested in on the other team and let to inquiring owner figure out the true initial offer. If he has someone I'm very interested in, I usually respond as such.

Example:

X: offers a rookie 3rd for Eddie Royal

Me: email "of course not, but I am interested in DeSean Jackson, Avery, Gore, and Cutler... I like Royal more than any of this except Gore, put something together and I'll listen"

X: (usually) offers DeSean and the rookie 3rd for Royal

Me: I counter with Royal a rookie 3rd for DeSean and Avery...

No, neither do I. That to me would be just trading to trade. But if I identify an an area that needs improvement, I see if there is a good fit with other team(s) and look to get something done.But in my experience, the "what do you want for PLAYER X" inquiries are for my core players who I am really not looking to move, short of a knock-my-socks-off type offer.

 

[Cripster]

My philosophy is determined by whether the offer is solicited or not. If I put someone "on the block", then I somewhat expect a low ball offer to kick things off. If the offer is unsolicited from a good owner, then I will communicate to them would I would require to move the player(s) they are interested in. If they are an owner that always pounds me with bad offers, I just reject with no communication. Thats me.

Before I make an offer, I make sure it addresses my needs and theirs as well. Really, there are few trades that are equal IMO.

 

[anakin]

I am not a fan of low ball offers. I do find them to be insulting and very lazy. I will respond with a "not close" or "I have no interest in..." Sometimes you find an owner that does not get it who continues to send multiple lowball offers in a day and I will send him a lowball offer back with the message "I might think about doing your trade after you accepted mine."

I am usually very close to what I'm willing to trade with the opening offer. I tend to trade with the same two to four owners over and over again in the leagues that I am in. I know who they like and they know who I like. Especially in dynasty if a team is taking a different angle then you are, you can help each other out like giving them older established players like Don Driver, while you get Jerome Simpson, A Caldwell, and a 2nd rounder which helps both teams out.

 

[stp-d]

For the record, as the original poster, i have built a reputation for being a Lowballer in several of my leagues. It's just the way I do business in the real world and has been real good to me, while building great relations with customers... but I'm trying to get better in the Fantasy World because it's just not as good to face to face or phone...

Now some guys have dealt with my offers and we get deals done because I communicate my position/thoughts, and the more we trade the better we learn what the other expects... But 1 or 2 rather salty owners who have been so insulted with my previous offers/counters & rankings that we just don't deal anymore. Basically i hoped to gain insight through this thread, and it has helped.

I don't ever think i will relate to the owner he takes an offer as an insult to intelligence, but at least i know it's about 20-25% of guys out there, based on this thread and my experience...

 

[sgtrobo]

I do not see any possible format where I would've considered taking that offer as the Fitz owner, unless my team was really hurting for depth and I needed to rebuild, or if those 1st rounders were early picks.

The other team is really hurting for depth (especially with Burress, Stallworth, and Matt Jones off-season activities), definitely rebuilding (5th worst power ranking before those WRs did stupid stuff), and one of the 1st rounders was a team that selected at 1.05 this year (with possible Lynch and Marshall suspensions looming).

ok, well that situation makes a bit more sense then

I don't ever think i will relate to the owner he takes an offer as an insult to intelligence, but at least i know it's about 20-25% of guys out there, based on this thread and my experience...

yeah, I don't get it either, although there have been some RIDICULOUS offers that I've received that really made me wonder WTF the other guy was thinking

 

[Ruffrodys05]

I do not get offended by low-ball offers, but I will make it clear that the offer is far from what would be expected to get a deal done. I'm always interested in talking trades, especially if it could actually benefit my team. I'll trade anyone on my roster for the right price, or even a very fair price (ie: lower than I would actually prefer) if it works for my team.

I also have learned to recognize what types of players other GM's are. Everyone is a little different in their approach to the game and how they view player values. There are a couple guys in my league who always start discussions with "What would it take to get so-and-so off of you?" There are those who low-ball. There are others that make fair offers. Then there are others who just go out and get who they want and don't beat around the bush. I happen to be one of these guys. I don't really make many trades....usually about one major trade a year. Each one has been initiated by me with very top-heavy offers right from the start. Potential partners know right away that I'm serious and that I want to do business. It has always worked and I've been pleased with the results to say the least. Each trade was viewed by other league members as "You overpaid way too much!" Hindsight reveals I got great deals as each trade has kept my team competitive and championship caliber for years now.

I've now gained a reputation as someone who is willing to overpay, so more recently trading has gotten a little difficult, but that's okay.

I have experienced making what I thought was a fair (but not overkill) offer and then having that owner get irate because he was insulted at what he perceived as a low-ball offer. Oh well. If we aren't even close, then that's okay. Maybe next time.

Good luck.

 

[Beefeaters]

I wouldn't say that I get insulted by lowball offers, but if the offer is way too low, then I probably wouldn't bother with negotiations (assuming that we aren't even close to begin with). It's not out of being upset. Just not smart to start that far apart in my opinion.

Also, if someone wants one of my players, I will never allow them to have me set the groundwork of the deal by them asking me something like, "How much would it cost me to get Player X?". If you want one of my guys, you have to come with an offer in hand, or the conversation dies a very quick death.

 

[THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA]

You know, i like the fact the OP will send a note WHY he feels the offer is fair, although rankings maybe completely different.

I myself get turned off on lowball offers, sorta like a slap in the face, but i play in leagues where its alot of sharks in it too, so maybe i feel EVERYONE knows there stuff and while we all have our personal rankings....Value lines are still arent that far off from the consensus around the better dynasty ranking sites.

I try at all cost to make both parties HAPPY if i can in my trade process, but if i see we have too much of a gap in value i want just do a deal just to do one.

Nice thread STP-D

 

[Chairshot]

If someone opens up a trade opportunity to me, I'm pretty much always going to investigate it, regardless of the initial offer. Getting insulted or refusing to counter back is really only hurting myself. I might be shutting down the talks that will ultimately result in the trade that will win me my league.

Bringing personal feelings into trade talks over something like a low-ball offer seems really silly to me. If someone wants to send me a David Patton for Randy Moss trade offer, fine, no problem. I'm happy to reply with what it would take to get Moss. Seems stupid to not reply or counter just because the other owner might not know what I would like in return.

 

[rotten]

The opening low ball offer is basically someone saying "hi. i'd like to try to screw you in this deal. are you interested?"

the amount of back and forth necessary to even get a low ball offer to a reasonable place where a trade can be consummated is so time consuming and often infuriating that i have started to just ignore these offers.

low ball offers are bush league. if you play in a yahoo league with a bunch of marroons then i guess there's some upside opportunity. but i play with serious players that know football and no one is going to fall for that weak stuff. it just proves to people that your plan is get over on the other guy, and not to make a mutually beneficial deal. and if you have no interest in a mutually beneficial deal, then i have no interest in trading with you.

 

[Adebisi]

If you're so sensitive that a low-ball trade offer would be "insulting" to you, perhaps fantasy football isn't for you.

 

[Sinrman]

I find lowball offers annoying, and to the degree that it turns me off immediately. It's not to say I won't trade with that person, but if they come at me with a really lowball offer, my first impression is not a good one, and it's hard to get back in my good graces (a la still trade with me).

 

[Tanner9919]

People would do a lot better in their trades if the actually tried COMMUNICATING with the other owners in their league.....Pick up a phone and talk Football with the other owner......pretty easy to find out how they view their team and players and get to a position where you can either make a deal while talking or to follow up with a specific trade offer that will work for both teams.IMO sending lowball offers or stupid emails is the lazy approach - and as a result doesn't work very well

great answer!talking in person or via phone, trumps emailing every time! and it's usually best to say 'hey, is Player X available, if so let's talk about a trade"too many times what happens with emailing other owners is that one team often says things like "hey, I see you need a RB in the coming weeks, esp now with the injury to RB X, so I'll tell you what, I'll give you RB "Z" ( the GM's 4th RB) for Calvin Johnson...you need to make a trade and soon, your playoff hopes depend on it'.I don't know why people try to screw each other so badly when it comes to FF, it must be a macho thing most GM's love their own players, and think they're worth gold...that's often the reason why I try to focus on drafting well,and using the waiver wire as needed..I'll also stash a sleeper or risky pick later in the draft, in the hopes that this player becomes a starter , and I'm offered a huge deal to trade him away ( see LJ , the year Priest Holmes got hurt )

 

[ookook]

Add me to the list of those that get offended by overly low initial offers.

I only offer trades that I hope will improve both teams. I do not like to be taken advantage of and wish the same level of respect that I offer.

That is not to say we cannot disagree on how much we value a player. But if I get more than one offer from an owner that I think no reasonable person would accept, I make a mental note to avod dealing with them.

Too much life to live, to little time for dipwads that do not respect one's intelligence. And good deals take time. Low-ballers are not worth my time typing long explanations or at some point even counter-offers.

 

[roadkill1292]

Since I only play in long time local leagues, I don't understand this whole insult business. A ridiculous offer is just an opportunity to bust one of my buddies' balls. After we swap insults, we can get down to the serious trade talk.

 

[ookook]

Yeah, local leagues are different. If guys send stupid offers we tend to spread them around and mock them into reality.

 

[Plaid Boxer]

Salary negotiation books I've read say studies show the person that talks dollar value first usually loses. With that in mind I usually put it on the other person to talk value first. I approach with "What do you want for X?" or "Who on my team are you interested in". If they approach me I just say "Give an offer and we can see what we can do"Things that irritate me are:When I counter a lowball offer and the owner counters with a similar lowball or just says forget it. Ex. Redraft last year. Offer: Troy Williamson for Brandon Jacobs, Counter: Jennings For Jacobs. He counters with Ronald Curry for Jacobs People that try to trade me all their backups that aren't startable for a stud. Spamming the same trade. Booted this guy from the league. He'd send the same trade to a team 30+ times, he hoped the person would accidently hit accept rather than decline. I booted him.

Things that iritate me, the owner who will NEVER make the initial offer. There needs to be some give and take with who makes the first offer, we all know what technique you are using. There are a limited amount of teams you can trade with, you don't want to be known as someone that is hard to trade with.