Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (3 Viewers)

[KingPrawn]

If you are seriously going to sign the petitions based on this series you should reconsider. Keep in mind this is a TV show, it's not a documentary! Lots of the evidence is left out and it is seriously slanted towards the defense.

I also wonder if the documentary is leaving a lot out. Because I just can't imagine they could be found guilty otherwise.

However, assuming this part is true, I can't fathom how there's no blood or other DNA in the trailer. He/they supposedly stabbed a woman in the stomach while chained to a bed, then cut her throat, yet there's nothing. How could these dopes have gotten rid of 100% of the blood/DNA? In the carpet, walls, ceiling, bed, etc.? No way.

And if they supposedly cleaned it all up, where's the evidence of cleaning materials like bleach, carpet cleaner, etc.? Wouldn't that be there then too? And does Steve have any alibi for the days between her disappearance and when investigators took over his property? That's the only time he could've done this extensive cleaning, which I still don't think is possible.

Hmmmm, you might be on to something there.

I'm very familiar with this case. Followed the case closely. Grew up in the same town Teresa grew up. Graduated with her aunt. (Admittedly I may be a little biased) I also know the reputation that the Avery's had in their small community. Haven't watched the show and have no desire to so I'm not sure what was covered or not. Also don't want to provide any spoilers for anybody. But from what I have read about the show and it's presentation there is a lot left out and a lot of the story isn't told in the order that it happened.

Just a few posts up you are blasting the show for leaving out lots of evidence, but you haven't even watched the show and admit in this post that you are not sure what they even covered.

Read the sentence directly after the words you bolded!!

Perhaps you also missed this post of mine:

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

 

[Dickies]

If you are seriously going to sign the petitions based on this series you should reconsider. Keep in mind this is a TV show, it's not a documentary! Lots of the evidence is left out and it is seriously slanted towards the defense.

I also wonder if the documentary is leaving a lot out. Because I just can't imagine they could be found guilty otherwise.

However, assuming this part is true, I can't fathom how there's no blood or other DNA in the trailer. He/they supposedly stabbed a woman in the stomach while chained to a bed, then cut her throat, yet there's nothing. How could these dopes have gotten rid of 100% of the blood/DNA? In the carpet, walls, ceiling, bed, etc.? No way.

And if they supposedly cleaned it all up, where's the evidence of cleaning materials like bleach, carpet cleaner, etc.? Wouldn't that be there then too? And does Steve have any alibi for the days between her disappearance and when investigators took over his property? That's the only time he could've done this extensive cleaning, which I still don't think is possible.

Hmmmm, you might be on to something there.

I'm very familiar with this case. Followed the case closely. Grew up in the same town Teresa grew up. Graduated with her aunt. (Admittedly I may be a little biased) I also know the reputation that the Avery's had in their small community. Haven't watched the show and have no desire to so I'm not sure what was covered or not. Also don't want to provide any spoilers for anybody. But from what I have read about the show and it's presentation there is a lot left out and a lot of the story isn't told in the order that it happened.

Just a few posts up you are blasting the show for leaving out lots of evidence, but you haven't even watched the show and admit in this post that you are not sure what they even covered.

Read the sentence directly after the words you bolded!!

Perhaps you also missed this post of mine:

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

Had not gotten that far in the thread when I posted that, but I still don't know how you know for certain that the documentary left out key evidence without having watched it for yourself. I don't have the time right now to read through that article, but will do so by the end of today and report back

 

[Dickies]

If you are seriously going to sign the petitions based on this series you should reconsider. Keep in mind this is a TV show, it's not a documentary! Lots of the evidence is left out and it is seriously slanted towards the defense.

I also wonder if the documentary is leaving a lot out. Because I just can't imagine they could be found guilty otherwise.

However, assuming this part is true, I can't fathom how there's no blood or other DNA in the trailer. He/they supposedly stabbed a woman in the stomach while chained to a bed, then cut her throat, yet there's nothing. How could these dopes have gotten rid of 100% of the blood/DNA? In the carpet, walls, ceiling, bed, etc.? No way.

And if they supposedly cleaned it all up, where's the evidence of cleaning materials like bleach, carpet cleaner, etc.? Wouldn't that be there then too? And does Steve have any alibi for the days between her disappearance and when investigators took over his property? That's the only time he could've done this extensive cleaning, which I still don't think is possible.

Hmmmm, you might be on to something there.

I'm very familiar with this case. Followed the case closely. Grew up in the same town Teresa grew up. Graduated with her aunt. (Admittedly I may be a little biased) I also know the reputation that the Avery's had in their small community. Haven't watched the show and have no desire to so I'm not sure what was covered or not. Also don't want to provide any spoilers for anybody. But from what I have read about the show and it's presentation there is a lot left out and a lot of the story isn't told in the order that it happened.

Just a few posts up you are blasting the show for leaving out lots of evidence, but you haven't even watched the show and admit in this post that you are not sure what they even covered.

Read the sentence directly after the words you bolded!!

Perhaps you also missed this post of mine:

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

Had not gotten that far in the thread when I posted that, but I still don't know how you know for certain that the documentary left out key evidence without having watched it for yourself. I don't have the time right now to read through that article, but will do so by the end of today and report back

I guess it was not as long as I thought since the comments section is the bulk of the page. If anything the documentary covers everything in this article and WAAAAY more. The only piece of evidence that I don't specifically recall the documentary covering are the bleach stains on Dassey's pants. If anything this article presents the prosecutions case with little mention of the defense's rebuttals.

 

[cockroach]

I also wonder if the documentary is leaving a lot out. Because I just can't imagine they could be found guilty otherwise.

However, assuming this part is true, I can't fathom how there's no blood or other DNA in the trailer. He/they supposedly stabbed a woman in the stomach while chained to a bed, then cut her throat, yet there's nothing. How could these dopes have gotten rid of 100% of the blood/DNA? In the carpet, walls, ceiling, bed, etc.? No way.

And if they supposedly cleaned it all up, where's the evidence of cleaning materials like bleach, carpet cleaner, etc.? Wouldn't that be there then too? And does Steve have any alibi for the days between her disappearance and when investigators took over his property? That's the only time he could've done this extensive cleaning, which I still don't think is possible.

Hmmmm, you might be on to something there.

I'm very familiar with this case. Followed the case closely. Grew up in the same town Teresa grew up. Graduated with her aunt. (Admittedly I may be a little biased) I also know the reputation that the Avery's had in their small community. Haven't watched the show and have no desire to so I'm not sure what was covered or not. Also don't want to provide any spoilers for anybody. But from what I have read about the show and it's presentation there is a lot left out and a lot of the story isn't told in the order that it happened.

What? What is left out?If anyone can answer this or point to a writeup on that issue, I'd appreciate it.

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecases.blogspot.com/2012/08/steven-avery.html

Hmmmmm... were you on the jury perchance?

This is why they're not rioting up there over this... everyone saw on the news how guilty those gross people were... no need to even watch the doc or view the evidence... heck, it's not even a documentary the guy says without watching it, it's a TV SHOW!



From what I've been reading a lot of people from the area are shocked and appalled that the case is more complex than what they saw on the news.

Perhaps you'd be willing to watch the first 5 eps or so and comment back... actually you can probably skip ep 1 and most of 2 and start there.

Would love to have someone who's watched most of the show and actually thinks they're guilty argue the other side to me

 

[cockroach]

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

Ok there are some things from that link not mentioned on the documentary:

"The prosecution also presented expert testimony regarding a bullet found embedded in the floor of Avery’s garage, which contained trace amounts of Teresa Halbach’s DNA. Ballistics tests linked the bullet to the .22 caliber rifle found hanging on the wall in Steven Avery’s bedroom."

This was never shown

It also said in the article that they found handcuffs and leg irons at the home. That was never shown.

"State DNA expert Sherry Culhane testified that no traces of Teresa’s DNA were found on Dassey’s clothing, but she also pointed out that his clothes had extensive bleach stains as a result of the garage cleaning that Dassey and his uncle had performed. Bleach, Culhane said, destroys DNA."

Bleach stains were never mentioned.

So there does seem to be a few details that helps the State's case that weren't mentioned in the doc.

 

[Max Power]

I'm through 7 episodes and very disturbed by this series. I feel horrible for Brendan. I'm just starting the episode with his trial. I don't see how a jury could find him guilty with no evidence other than a weak confession that the facts don't support. This one will be interesting.

 

[pollardsvision]

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

Ok there are some things from that link not mentioned on the documentary:

"The prosecution also presented expert testimony regarding a bullet found embedded in the floor of Avery’s garage, which contained trace amounts of Teresa Halbach’s DNA. Ballistics tests linked the bullet to the .22 caliber rifle found hanging on the wall in Steven Avery’s bedroom."

This was never shown

It also said in the article that they found handcuffs and leg irons at the home. That was never shown.

"State DNA expert Sherry Culhane testified that no traces of Teresa’s DNA were found on Dassey’s clothing, but she also pointed out that his clothes had extensive bleach stains as a result of the garage cleaning that Dassey and his uncle had performed. Bleach, Culhane said, destroys DNA."

Bleach stains were never mentioned.

So there does seem to be a few details that helps the State's case that weren't mentioned in the doc.

On the bullet, didn't they show that part with the DNA test that also ended up with the lab chick's DNA in it?

For the bleach thing, how do they know the stains came from the Brendan and Steven cleaning the garage floor? Even if they bleached the floor, it's still hard to believe they successfully cleaned any other splatter from all that junk in the garage.

That still wouldn't explain the lack of DNA or blood in the trailer, where much of Brendan's coerced confession said this attack took place. The confession that seemed to be 99% of the reason he was found guilty.

 

[pollardsvision]

Wow. This is so good.

Just finished episode 5 with the cop who called in the license plate.

Better than Serial.

I fell asleep during a couple stretches (not from boredom, I'm just becoming an old fogey that falls asleep in a chair most nights), but I don't remember them ever returning to this issue. A bummer as it was such a huge episode ending cliffhanger.

That part was so key. I wouldn't have voted guilty if on the jury, but the biggest missing piece for me (other than the EDTA thing) was coming up with a good explanation of the RAV4 getting back to the property. That seemed to be that key, but I didn't feel like they brought that home.

 

[pollardsvision]

BTW, I was half waiting for an Ed Norton at the end of Primal Fear moment from Brendan at the end.

 

[Underachievers]

Prosecuting attorney was a dbag anyway.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wisconsin-district-attorney-kenneth-kratz-admits-sexting-domestic/story?id=11684807

 

[Gator Shawn]

I wasn't sure about Steven, but I was certain they wouldn't convict Brendan. Absolutely shocked. Even if exactly what they said happened, happened, I still can't see Brendan as a first degree murderer.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I wasn't sure about Steven, but I was certain they wouldn't convict Brendan. Absolutely shocked. Even if exactly what they said happened, happened, I still can't see Brendan as a first degree murderer.

Yeah bizarre. There was zero evidence against him outside of a coerced confession that didn't make sense based on the evidence. That jury has blood on their hands. Sickening

 

[Dickies]

Like I said, I did not watch the show so I can't directly comment on what was left out but from what I have read locally there is evidence left out and the show is definitely biased for the defense, Here's a good write up and summary of the case from True Crimes from 2012.

http://truecrimecase...even-avery.html

Ok there are some things from that link not mentioned on the documentary:

"The prosecution also presented expert testimony regarding a bullet found embedded in the floor of Avery’s garage, which contained trace amounts of Teresa Halbach’s DNA. Ballistics tests linked the bullet to the .22 caliber rifle found hanging on the wall in Steven Avery’s bedroom."

This was never shown

It also said in the article that they found handcuffs and leg irons at the home. That was never shown.

"State DNA expert Sherry Culhane testified that no traces of Teresa’s DNA were found on Dassey’s clothing, but she also pointed out that his clothes had extensive bleach stains as a result of the garage cleaning that Dassey and his uncle had performed. Bleach, Culhane said, destroys DNA."

Bleach stains were never mentioned.

So there does seem to be a few details that helps the State's case that weren't mentioned in the doc.

They did mention that the rifle used to fire the bullet was Avery's, but did not talk about ballistics testing. The defense attorney was asking how there was no blood splatter anywhere on Avery's rifle if it was used to shoot her in the head. The defense also mentioned that there was neither Halbach's nor Avery's DNA on the handcuffs and leg irons, but there was not a major discussion about them. Like I said earlier, I do not recall any mention of bleach stains. All three of these are non issues for me. The bullet was found months after they had already conducted an 8 day search of the property including exactly where the bullet was found. 8 days seems like an excessive amount of time to search a property for evidence, and then a bullet magically appears. The police would have had access to Avery's gun and Halbach's DNA as well. The handcuffs and leg irons not having either party's DNA would make them a meaningless piece of evidence for me.

 

[pollardsvision]

I will say that if Steve did do it, he is the dumbest/sickest POS on the face of the earth. He had the public on his side and was so close to a big settlement from his wrongful conviction.

I agree with his lawyer at the end (Trang, I think?). I really hope he did it at this point.

Also, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more hateable couple of goobers than the DA Kratz and Brendan's first lawyer Katchinsky. Easy to say now with Kratz after his sexual harrassment stuff got exposed, the minute that ####er came on screen and I heard that voice, I had an overwhelming urge to slap that creep 'stache off his face. Everything about him makes your skin crawl before even knowing he's the type of dude to send **** pics to domestic abuse victim fresh out of the hospital.

Katchinsky, of course, makes you wonder how he ever became a lawyer.

Aside from the usual bias that a documentary is going to have, I wonder how much of my bias as a viewer came from how much Kratz (mainly) and Katchinsky were downright loathsome from start to finish. If I were sitting on a jury, I'd have a hard time finding any defendant Kratz was prosecuting to be guilty of anything, terrible as that may be.

 

[BeTheMatch]

I will say that if Steve did do it, he is the dumbest/sickest POS on the face of the earth. He had the public on his side and was so close to a big settlement from his wrongful conviction.

I agree with his lawyer at the end (Trang, I think?). I really hope he did it at this point.

Also, I'm not sure I've ever seen a more hateable couple of goobers than the DA Kratz and Brendan's first lawyer Katchinsky. Easy to say now with Kratz after his sexual harrassment stuff got exposed, the minute that ####er came on screen and I heard that voice, I had an overwhelming urge to slap that creep 'stache off his face. Everything about him makes your skin crawl before even knowing he's the type of dude to send **** pics to domestic abuse victim fresh out of the hospital.

Katchinsky, of course, makes you wonder how he ever became a lawyer.

Aside from the usual bias that a documentary is going to have, I wonder how much of my bias as a viewer came from how much Kratz (mainly) and Katchinsky were downright loathsome from start to finish. If I were sitting on a jury, I'd have a hard time finding any defendant Kratz was prosecuting to be guilty of anything, terrible as that may be.

Agreed.

And there is something about that ex-boyfriend that seems very unsettling. Not saying I think he did it, but he's a weirdo for sure.

 

[pollardsvision]

Amidst all this, the wildest thing that never really got cleared up is the excused juror.

Of all the factors at play that now have Avery spending the rest of the life in jail, there's the issue that one dude that would've saved him having some sort of unexplained family emergency. Having a guy that seems to fully believe in your innocence in your jury sounds awesome........until he has a family emergency suddenly pop up and has to be excused. Ugh.

Any idea why the documentary makers never got into this. Hell, they are interviewing the juror. Everyone thinks the whole thing is suspicious. I'm sure somebody asked the obvious questions about this, but it's very odd that essentially no answers were given about this.

 

[Max Power]

Amidst all this, the wildest thing that never really got cleared up is the excused juror.

Of all the factors at play that now have Avery spending the rest of the life in jail, there's the issue that one dude that would've saved him having some sort of unexplained family emergency. Having a guy that seems to fully believe in your innocence in your jury sounds awesome........until he has a family emergency suddenly pop up and has to be excused. Ugh.

Any idea why the documentary makers never got into this. Hell, they are interviewing the juror. Everyone thinks the whole thing is suspicious. I'm sure somebody asked the obvious questions about this, but it's very odd that essentially no answers were given about this.

I'll admit to spending a bit too much time on reddit's https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/ forum since about midway through the series. One thread mentions the excused juror's stepdaughter was in a very serious car accident. It's just a random internet post, but seemed plausible.

Episode 10 was pretty tough to watch. Kachinsky and O'Kelly are two despicable people. Brendan deserves a re-trail and I fully believe this series will enable that to happen. Public outcry will move into full swing after the holidays.

 

[John Bender]

I guess I would just warn anyone who does start watching this that it can make you depressed and angry pretty easily.

I wasn't as sympathetic to Avery as I was to the kid.

The recorded interviews were they're just basically telling him to repeat their own made up story so he could go home and be released was very depressing to me. The investigator in the classroom looking recorded convo seemed like vile scum - playing some 16 year old with a 72 IQ for a pawn with no problems do it.

The getting home for Wrestlemania line was just heart ripping stuff. The type of thing that will haunt you forever.

It also seemed, at the end of episode 5, the look on Colbrun's face was one of someone who just got caught lying for the first time. I really wish more had been made of him calling in the plate number like that mysteriously.

The good news, this doc is so good and well produced, that I'm assuming this will start the ball rolling on some innocence projects looking into these cases.

 

[Max Power]

I guess I would just warn anyone who does start watching this that it can make you depressed and angry pretty easily.

I finished this series late on Christmas Eve. I'm really bothered by all of it. Luckily today was mostly spending time with the kids, friends and family, so I was distracted by all of the festivities. The series did pop into my head a few times today though. I even recommended it for a couple to watch. Now that I'm in for the night and kids in bed, I'm back to being upset by this. I'm sure it will pass in time, but you're spot on with that recommendation.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Regarding DNA evidence, didn't they say there was no signs of cleaning chemicals like bleach in the garage? I also could swear they said that no DNA for Halbach was found but that DNA for Avery was there, making it less likely he cleaned up evidence?

Based on what we know from the documentary, that poor Brendan kid got the shaft. If he did all the things he was coerced into saying he still shouldn't be locked away for life. It's obvious he is not a normal functioning person and his age at the time should warrant much more consideration that it seems to have.

I'm 50/50 on Avery. I think the cops are as bad as he is though. Nothing adds up like it should in any direction.

 

[John Bender]

Regarding DNA evidence, didn't they say there was no signs of cleaning chemicals like bleach in the garage? I also could swear they said that no DNA for Halbach was found but that DNA for Avery was there, making it less likely he cleaned up evidence?

Based on what we know from the documentary, that poor Brendan kid got the shaft. If he did all the things he was coerced into saying he still shouldn't be locked away for life. It's obvious he is not a normal functioning person and his age at the time should warrant much more consideration that it seems to have.

I'm 50/50 on Avery. I think the cops are as bad as he is though. Nothing adds up like it should in any direction.

Most internet warriors are at least only slightly pissed at the Avery conviction.

Just about 99.9% of people are out of their gourd over the Brendan life in prison sentence.

A useless attorney, a 69 IQ, 3 very disgusting detectives forming his memories puts him in jail for life? Everyone on the jury who convicted him are probably Trump supporters. It's really ####### maddening to watch those taped interviews.

 

[whoknew]

Regarding DNA evidence, didn't they say there was no signs of cleaning chemicals like bleach in the garage? I also could swear they said that no DNA for Halbach was found but that DNA for Avery was there, making it less likely he cleaned up evidence?

Based on what we know from the documentary, that poor Brendan kid got the shaft. If he did all the things he was coerced into saying he still shouldn't be locked away for life. It's obvious he is not a normal functioning person and his age at the time should warrant much more consideration that it seems to have.

I'm 50/50 on Avery. I think the cops are as bad as he is though. Nothing adds up like it should in any direction.

Most internet warriors are at least only slightly pissed at the Avery conviction.

Just about 99.9% of people are out of their gourd over the Brendan life in prison sentence.

A useless attorney, a 69 IQ, 3 very disgusting detectives forming his memories puts him in jail for life? Everyone on the jury who convicted him are probably Trump supporters. It's really ####### maddening to watch those taped interviews.

He was worse than just useless. He was damaging to Brendan. He helped the cops lock him up.

 

[Sabertooth]

I thought Lenk came off as the worst of the whole bunch. What a #####. Colbourn was bad too. That license plate call in was terrible. Where was he getting that number from if not standing in front of it? And if he was standing in front of it, why not call in the cavalry? I mean, maybe he was just double checking or something, but there should have been something he was double checking against.

 

[Dickies]

I thought Lenk came off as the worst of the whole bunch. What a #####. Colbourn was bad too. That license plate call in was terrible. Where was he getting that number from if not standing in front of it? And if he was standing in front of it, why not call in the cavalry? I mean, maybe he was just double checking or something, but there should have been something he was double checking against.

Lenk seemed like a real POS. I wouldn't be at all shocked if he masterminded the whole thing. Colbourn came across as the doofus sidekick. Seeing the look on his face after being questioned about the license plate it wouldn't surprise me if there is a pair of underwear in the ceiling tiles of the courthouse.

 

[Sabertooth]

I kind of got that impression as well. That said I think Avery probably did it. I don't think they proved it though and on the jury, I'd have voted no. I distrust cops though, for the most part.

 

[Underachievers]

I kind of got that impression as well. That said I think Avery probably did it. I don't think they proved it though and on the jury, I'd have voted no. I distrust cops though, for the most part.

That is about where I am at. Odds are he probably did it, but he didn't recieve a fair trial by any stretch of the imagination. The prosecution and investigation was vomit worthy from the beginning.

And I generally support law enforcement.

 

[Papa Georgio]

It's not really evidence but the phone calls to his woman when the murders were supposedly taking place are the most difficult thing for me to get my head around when thinking of his guilt. He was calm and no signs of stress or being drunk or anything that would indicate that he had a woman tied up and was in the process of raping and killing.

The bonfire is one of the biggies for me when it comes to his innocence. The timing is just too convenient.

Silly that out of all the things these are the 2 that stand out for me on both sides in proving his guilt or innocence.

I'd love to see all the raw film without it being edited.

 

[Max Power]

I kind of got that impression as well. That said I think Avery probably did it. I don't think they proved it though and on the jury, I'd have voted no. I distrust cops though, for the most part.

That is about where I am at. Odds are he probably did it, but he didn't recieve a fair trial by any stretch of the imagination. The prosecution and investigation was vomit worthy from the beginning.

And I generally support law enforcement.

I've generally always supported law enforcement as well. Maybe I've been close minded as I've typically been in the "no reason to lawyer up if you're innocent" crowd. After seeing what the investigators did to Brendan and that the Judge actually allowed that confession. I feel the need to express to my children that they should never be alone with a cop. The system and the State failed that kid and they were ok with it.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Can someone in the camp of he prolly did it explain their conclusion? All of the evidence that puts Avery at the crime scene comes with lots of reasonable doubt. How are you reaching this conclusion?

 

[Raback]

So they are trying to tell me that this guy commits a murder in his trailer or garage, and he is so careful that not a SINGLE drop of Teresa Halbachs blood is found in either location. Yet he leaves her car on the front row of the lot covered with some branches and not crushed, leaves her car key in his bedroom, and burns her body right there is in his personal fire pit.

Almost every bit of physical evidence was found by Manitowoc county police, who were subjects of the civil suit, after multiple previous searches turned up nothing. That's just the beginning of questionable aspects of this case.

I have no idea if Steven Avery killed her or not. I do know that the defense created so much reasonable doubt in this case that it should have taken about 5 minutes to come back with a not guilty verdict.

 

[Sabertooth]

His house. He was home. I think there is reasonable doubt though for sure. The lack of blood is crazy. The Brendan confession was bogus I thought. No way that should be taken at face value.

 

[Johnnymac]

I have one more episode to watch so forgive me if I say something out of line.

First of all, the documentary is set up for you to be on the side of the defense. That's ok with me but you have to take this in account when you are watching anything. I want to do some research on this victim. We need to know if anyone wanted her dead. I have not seen anything about this and it seems like the investigators did nothing to explore this aspect of the case. Any LE official must investigate the victim and her life completely, if they don't, they are doing a dis-service to all involved.

I'm wondering why if she was stabbed and her throat was cut on his bed, there was not one drop of her blood in his bedroom?

Ok maybe it was in the garage, where is all the blood?

The lady that found the car within 30 minutes of being on that property is very suspect.

If he killed her why would he not crush the vehicle? I'm sorry. he had a car crusher right there and knows how to operate it, but does not do that?

The key to her car found in his bedroom after the 3rd search? And by Manitowoc county? In fact, almost all of the critical eveidence was found by Manirowoc county officials, even though they were not supposed to be involved in the investigation due to the lawsuit?

The interrogation of Brendan brought flashbacks to me of the west memphis 3 and Jesse Misskelly. Almost identical. That interrogation of a kid that has definite learning disabilities is criminal in my opinion. Just horrendous. I am convinced this kid saw and did nothing and now he is going to spend the rest of his life in prison. That is an absolute travesty.

 

[Sabertooth]

They found the key on the 8th search but the first Lenk was present for I believe.

 

[Johnnymac]

They found the key on the 8th search but the first Lenk was present for I believe.

Ok yeah, that's just extremely suspect. I knew it was after several searches. What I still can't figure out is why in the #### were those officers even allowed within 10 miles of that property?

 

[cockroach]

His house. He was home. I think there is reasonable doubt though for sure. The lack of blood is crazy. The Brendan confession was bogus I thought. No way that should be taken at face value.

The lack of blood isn't crazy if you assume it didn't happen at the scene as the prosecution said. It just couldn't have. Her blood is in the car and they can tell it was from her head based on how it was swooped around by hair. So I don't think you can say it happened at his house

 

[cockroach]

Can someone in the camp of he prolly did it explain their conclusion? All of the evidence that puts Avery at the crime scene comes with lots of reasonable doubt. How are you reaching this conclusion?

It's sort of like Serial, where if the cops didn't set this up, THEY are the most unlucky precinct in the world.

 

[Papa Georgio]

If I'm the Manitowoc county police and know he did it as they claim I would've stayed as far away from the investigation as possible. Any and all evidence found while someone named in the civil suit was involved would seem inadmissible to me.

No way I would put a man away for life based on what I saw in the documentary. The Manitowoc county police are a bunch of buffoons and good ol' boys and operate as such. I am pro-police and believe 97/100 they want to do their jobs in the best and most ethical way possible.

I have seen them be the most disgusting people I know at times too taking advantage of their position of power.

 

[Johnnymac]

His house. He was home. I think there is reasonable doubt though for sure. The lack of blood is crazy. The Brendan confession was bogus I thought. No way that should be taken at face value.

The lack of blood isn't crazy if you assume it didn't happen at the scene as the prosecution said. It just couldn't have. Her blood is in the car and they can tell it was from her head based on how it was swooped around by hair. So I don't think you can say it happened at his house

But that helps the defense. Why would she be killed and put in her car just to move her to the fire pit area? Why be put in her car after she was killed if this happened at the Avery property?

 

[Johnnymac]

This is another thing to think about. How many people are convicted of a violent crime in this country with no "documentary" being made?

 

[Daywalker]

I like the prosecution assertion that lack of forensics may be due to them having five days to clean up. Yeah those criminal masterminds who left the Rav4 on the lot.

Her throat slit on bed yet no dna on mattress? Ok.

Was nuts when Fassbender started asking Brendan about her head. Was like a game of hot/cold. I would have hoped for more footage of the defense teams poking holes in the confession.

Kelly may have been the most vile person in this. Placing out those pictures to get your own client to confess. The blue ribbon. Him repeatedly crying due to it. Was bizarre.

Have to say this was the most riveting documentary I have ever seen. Not even particularly close. Incredible.

If I had to bet my life I'd say Stephen did it. But in same regard don't think Brendan part of it.

 

[Daywalker]

Another thing not shown was whether Steven's defense brought up the fact that only his dna found on key. Meaning it could have been wiped down for some reason and Steven's dna planted.

 

[Sabertooth]

This is another thing to think about. How many people are convicted of a violent crime in this country with no "documentary" being made?

I agree. I had a good friend get accused of raping a girl in a property I owned. It was total bull#### of course. She had many inconsistencies in her story, but he got hauled In and questioned. If he hadn't brought her to buy cigarettes at a gas station the next morning after having a one night stand with her, who knows? But she said she woke up alone so screwed her story up. We figure she went home, got questioned by her boyfriend and just lied to cover her ### and he called bull####. Said if that's true we are going to the cops. She just kept doubling down. Crazy thing is she never got in trouble for it at all sd far as I'm aware.

 

[Daywalker]

Also would like to know if their is footage of defense bringing up fact that Jodi called Steven during the "crime" window. She said they talked all lovie-dovie for 15 minutes.

Who is taking phone calls when they are in the midst of what he allegedly was?

 

[Sabertooth]

Evil incarnate.

 

[TheMagus]

I just finished it.

I think there is a chance that Steven did it but Brendan either had nothing to do with it or simply witnessed the burning of the body much later that evening which is why he had no clue how the murder actually happened. And the police clearly planted some of the evidence. That is a no-brainer to me.

What I am struggling with is reconciling an alternative to one of the Averys committing the murder.

The brother did set up a couple of red flags with his statements and the apparent deleting of voice mails. But it seems so implausible that someone unrelated to the Averys could have murdered her and then planted the car and the body on the property without being detected.

So I really am leaning that either Steven did it, or one of the other relatives did and he just went down for it.

That all being said, there was more than enough reasonable doubt to prevent a conviction. And I know very little about law, but some of the crap that went on seems like it should have automatically thrown out evidence. How are these guys not even getting any appeals approved? The fact that a minor was questioned without a parent being notified should have thrown out his entire statement, no?

 

[Johnnymac]

I just finished it.

I think there is a chance that Steven did it but Brendan either had nothing to do with it or simply witnessed the burning of the body much later that evening which is why he had no clue how the murder actually happened. And the police clearly planted some of the evidence. That is a no-brainer to me.

What I am struggling with is reconciling an alternative to one of the Averys committing the murder.

The brother did set up a couple of red flags with his statements and the apparent deleting of voice mails. But it seems so implausible that someone unrelated to the Averys could have murdered her and then planted the car and the body on the property without being detected.

So I really am leaning that either Steven did it, or one of the other relatives did and he just went down for it.

That all being said, there was more than enough reasonable doubt to prevent a conviction. And I know very little about law, but some of the crap that went on seems like it should have automatically thrown out evidence. How are these guys not even getting any appeals approved? The fact that a minor was questioned without a parent being notified should have thrown out his entire statement, no?

Does Steven have any violent crimes in his background? None that I know about. He spent 18 years in prison but he did not commit that crime. As far as I know he has not committed a violent crime. He was in his 40's when this happened and it does not make sense. I have a real problem with how this investigation was conducted.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I just finished it.

I think there is a chance that Steven did it but Brendan either had nothing to do with it or simply witnessed the burning of the body much later that evening which is why he had no clue how the murder actually happened. And the police clearly planted some of the evidence. That is a no-brainer to me.

What I am struggling with is reconciling an alternative to one of the Averys committing the murder.

The brother did set up a couple of red flags with his statements and the apparent deleting of voice mails. But it seems so implausible that someone unrelated to the Averys could have murdered her and then planted the car and the body on the property without being detected.

So I really am leaning that either Steven did it, or one of the other relatives did and he just went down for it.

That all being said, there was more than enough reasonable doubt to prevent a conviction. And I know very little about law, but some of the crap that went on seems like it should have automatically thrown out evidence. How are these guys not even getting any appeals approved? The fact that a minor was questioned without a parent being notified should have thrown out his entire statement, no?

Does Steven have any violent crimes in his background? None that I know about. He spent 18 years in prison but he did not commit that crime. As far as I know he has not committed a violent crime. He was in his 40's when this happened and it does not make sense. I have a real problem with how this investigation was conducted.

from doc he burned a cat alive when he was 18 or so and pulled a shotgun out on some woman who spread rumors he was yanking out in public. He was no saint, but did admit to the those crimes and paid the price.

 

[Daywalker]

My favorite part was in the 1985 trial when the defense said Steven does not own underwear.

 

[TheMagus]

He had never committed a violent crime before, but there were some odd things that the show left out. He called her several times before she showed up using *67 to block his number so she wouldn't know it was him. And there is the fact that no one ever heard from her again after she was last on the Avery property. And there is the timing of the bonfire which is a bit coincidental. If Steven didn't do it, the most likely answer is probably one of the relatives. I don't think the fact that they were outcasts and everyone thought they were weirdos was completely pulled out of thin air. Not a lot makes sense if it wasn't one of them. I saw an interesting theory that the two guys who were hunting (and each others' alibis) could have either killed her on purpose or by accident.

 

[Daywalker]

Been trying with no success to find a good article that delves into some of the questions raised in the doc.

Did read something that Steven had to use a fake name to get Teresa to come out there. Apparently she complained about him because he would sometimes answer the door only wearing a towel.