Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (2 Viewers)

[parrot]

Maybe he used thermite.

I was just thinking "I feel like I've had this conversation before..."

 

[bucksoh]

Of course, if you believe the keys were planted, that raises the question of... where did they actually find the keys? And why did they wait so long to plant them?

Could Lenk or Colburn have found them in the car and then waited until they got a chance to be unsupervised in the trailer and drop them?

Ok, so where did they find the car?

Not a freaking clue. But Colburn did radio in about the plates 2 days before it was found. Maybe they found it on the side of the road somewhere?

Is it plausible they found the car and moved it to the salvage yard? Sure.

Not saying that's what happened, but with how everything else played out in this case, I wouldn't be shocked.

I have to go rewatch the end of that episode. I thought they were going to pick up on it the following episode and expand on this issue...so I think I glossed over it because of that.But, what is the big deal with this scenario.

If someone goes missing, wouldn't you presumably be able to find or get access to the license plate number of that van without actually having to be in front of it. I am not sure why it is a foregone conclusion like many have suggested that Colborn had to be looking at the vehicle when he called it in.

Granted...the way he answered some questions on the stand about it set off some red flags to me (but aside from that...why was the actual act of calling it in suspicious)?

Because he called in the plates and they said "missing woman" or something like that... and he replied with the make and model. And she confirmed

Then the lawyer said how did you know the make... and he responded, I think she told me just there (saying that he didn't know it, she said it), then they played it back and it was him saying the make.

It seems pretty clear that he's sitting right in front of it. Can't imagine why they didn't drive that point home. But dude was practically crapping his pants on the stand, I guess maybe they figured the jurors could tell he was nervous.

I don't think that's "clear" at all. If he's looking at the car, he knows it's a Toyota, and the year is irrelevant. It seems at least equally, if not more, plausible that he's confirming or clarifying some notes or something.

Wow, just wow KP is back.

 

[shadyridr]

Most people from Wisconsin don't even want to hear that there might be more than one side to the story. Why is that?

this is what I find most amazing. They say the documentary was biased yet they clearly are biased for the Wisconsin media covering the case at the time

 

[Bonzai]

Link

 

[mitchh1124]

The step dad said the fire was a bout 3 feet high

Lots of people just call a party at a fire a Bon fire.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Most people from Wisconsin don't even want to hear that there might be more than one side to the story. Why is that?

this is what I find most amazing. They say the documentary was biased yet they clearly are biased for the Wisconsin media covering the case at the time

i live in Wisconsin but find it ridiculous people think they know more just because they live in the state. People from WI don't have any inside knowledge because they live here, in fact like you said they are probably more bias and less knowledgable due to the news coverage here. In a highly publicized case like this everyone has the same info, there is no extra info we get solely from living in the state.

 

[Apple Juice]

Link

 

[cockroach]

The only blood of her's they found was in the back of the SUV, IIRC.

Why was he blood not in the back as well?

And why did he put her in the trunk and then carry her back to his fire pit?

Lol

Lenk finds everything haha

Would make sense if she weren't killed in the trailer or garage. Say she was killed somewhere else on the 40 acres (or even off the 40 acre compound), and then he brought her back with the SUV.

How about this theory - which could explain his blood stain locations (if I'm remembering where they were), as well as hers. She meets with him at the trailer or garage to take pictures of the van. He somehow coerces her to drive him out somewhere (maybe he says we've got another vehicle we'd like you to photograph, let me show you where it is). The two of them hop into her RAV4 and drive off. If he's in the front passenger seat, and a finger on his right hand is cut/bleeding - that blood could end up on the seat movement lever between the passenger seat and the door (which I believe is where his blood was found, right). When they arrive at this "location" somewhere on the property, that's where he kills her. He then puts her body back in the back of the RAV4 (which is why her blood was found in the back) - and drives back to his trailer to later burn her. When he's starting her car at this point, his finger is still bleeding - so that blood would be found around the key ignition area - which again, it was. He burns the body in part or whole in each of 3 different burn locations in an effort to hide his tracks. Maybe he "stores" the body (likely wrapped up in plastic or something) in the garage for a period of time until it's dark out so he can move the body to the burn locations - which is why he later asked for Dassey's help in cleaning it up, fearing some of her DNA might have gotten out. He then stores the car near the car crusher (picture earlier in this thread shows that it was found near the crusher) waiting for a good time to crush it without anyone else knowing about it.

Thoughts? Fits all the blood evidence together.

In one of Brendan's early statements - which, yes, I think we all take with a grain of salt regardless - he had Steven taking Theresa to "the pit" in the RAV4, killing her there, then bringing her body back to the house/garage in a sled of some type. Without knowing what kind of forensic work might have been done a the pit, that would largely fit.

Again, that could be plausible, but then why would there be a bullet with her DNA in the garage? Or are we just saying that was planted there?

That bullet with her DNA on it isn't even admissible in court because it has that bolnde lady's DNA in the control sample.

You also have the internal memo to her from the police dept telling her to make it fit to work against Avery.

 

[cockroach]

Wondering how I would respond if I were a cop. Would I plant evidence and break the law if I thought I was putting a dangerous person behind bars? I think I might given the right circumstances.

Now imagine you took part in withholding evidence that kept him in jail for several years and you would be owing him millions of dollars for this malfeasance.

 

[IC FBGCav]

This thread has gone huge, started at the beginning but cant read that fast. FBI guy been discussed yet?

 

[SIDA!]

This thread has gone huge, started at the beginning but cant read that fast. FBI guy been discussed yet?

Yeah, but not in a while. Several pages back we discussed what a slime ball he seemed like on the stand and how the test results he gave were dubious in addition to his ability to know what all the blood spots contained even though he only tested 3 of them.

 

[IC FBGCav]

This thread has gone huge, started at the beginning but cant read that fast. FBI guy been discussed yet?

Yeah, but not in a while. Several pages back we discussed what a slime ball he seemed like on the stand and how the test results he gave were dubious in addition to his ability to know what all the blood spots contained even though he only tested 3 of them.

Ty I know you been in thread since the beginning.

 

[mitchh1124]

What exactly made him dangerous?

Running his cousin off the road who was talking #### to me constantly?

Burning a cat? That's sociopathic but he only did it once...as far as we know

What else did he do that lots a teenagers don't do?

 

[beef]

The craziest thing about this is that Brendan Dassey actually posts here. He goes by the name Sabertooth.

 

[Limp Ditka]

The craziest thing about this is that Brendan Dassey actually posts here. He goes by the name Sabertooth.

 

[cockroach]

This thread has gone huge, started at the beginning but cant read that fast. FBI guy been discussed yet?

One of the most despised characters by me. So arrogant and acting above reproach. The FBI is supposed to be the police of the police, but this guy seemed like he was acting in concert. Shocking, I know.

 

[Limp Ditka]

The craziest thing about this is that Brendan Dassey actually posts here. He goes by the name Sabertooth.

 

[One]

The craziest thing about this is that Brendan Dassey actually posts here. He goes by the name Sabertooth.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

My wife went to bed early last night and I started to re watch some episodes. It had been a really rough week at work so I needed to unwind and I'm not afraid to admit that I jerked it to a paused screen of Dolores wearing one of those sexy sleeveless tops. Yeah.

 

[cockroach]

A lot of my opinion in this case comes down to one word: INTEGRITY.

It is proven that the head Sheriff does not have it (K. Peterson)... it is proven that Colburn does not have it... Lenk being on the scene in general shows a lack of integrity... Like really, take a min and acknowledge the fact that they actually had people assigned to him to watch him to make sure he didn't do anything out of the ordinary and he's the guy that finds the main evidence? My mind is bottled...it's 100% in a bottle right now... mind bottling.

So the police take an inordinate amount of time on the site and still can't come up with some solid incriminating evidence so they go after his GF.

She refuses to give in (being above 70 IQ) and so they run her out of town and target his alibi.

A freaking 16 yo r-tard.

You can't watch his "confession" and tell me he wasn't manipulated. It's insanity.

The attorneys here saying the detectives were "just doing their jobs" need to look in the fing mirror.

Their job is to get a confession?!?!?! Really?!?!? We see how difficult that is to extrapolate from a mentally challenged 16 y/o.

Anyway, the shocking lack of integrity Mr. Peterson shows really reflects upon his department considering his rank and over.

His "composite sketch".... which looks like a tracing.... his refusal to admit DNA evidence that exonerated Avery...HE is the sociopath in this story. Look at how that psychopath reacts under oath on the stand. Is that a sane person?!? He is the boss of the rest of these sicko ####s like Lenk and Colburn.... you see his POS attitude and you think that doesn't trickle down?

THere's so much going against Manitowoac county BEFORE the crazily tainted evidence shows up.

Like I said way back in this thread, like in the Serial case... if Avery DID do it... Manitowac is the most unlucky precinct in the world. And instead of SA being the obvious conclusion like he apparently was, they should have been doing their best to rule everyone that might've been a suspect out......... BUT... lo and behold they went after almost noone else and their CB communication reflects that they expected to have SA in custody straight off the bat.

 

[cockroach]

Like I said way back in this thread, like in the Serial case... if Avery DID do it... Manitowac is the most unlucky precinct in the world. And instead of SA being the obvious conclusion like he apparently was, they should have been doing their best to rule everyone that might've been a suspect out......... BUT... lo and behold they went after almost noone else and their CB communication reflects that they expected to have SA in custody straight off the bat.

To repeat. Considering the circumstances around this case, investigators should have done double due diligence in investigating possible suspects. Yet, only one person seems to be targeted, despite a massive conflict of interest and a history of prejudice against him (the prime and sole suspect).

 

[Joe T]

After watching the whole documentary, the only person I'm 100% certain deserves life in prison is Kratz.

The guy holds a smug press conference with a horrific and graphic story that is an obvious lie from a coerced confession. The press conference only serves sensationalism for the media and possibly to taint the jury pool. Nothing from that press conference was true, but he told the story anyway.

Kratz goes on to prosecute an innocent teenager using the same coerced confession getting a conviction for life in prison. Only a psychopath could do something like that. Kratz should be locked up for the rest of his life with the worst criminals on earth.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

The Family was mentioned to be pure evil and I believe inbreds etc. Was this explained anywhere because this was just thrown out there and not really explained.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

The Family was mentioned to be pure evil and I believe inbreds etc. Was this explained anywhere because this was just thrown out there and not really explained.

I believe it is generally assumed most people from Wisconsin are inbred

 

[Joe T]

I'm not sure how anyone can watch the confession by Brendan and not be sick to their stomach. It's complete garbage. And the cops whose job it is to protect kids single handedly destroy a mentally challenged kid. It's sickening.

These cops and prosecutors have no moral compass at all. Once you watch episode 3 and realize that is the type of people you are dealing with you realize they will do anything to get a conviction. If they will coerce a weak kid into a murder confession, they will literally do anything. I would not put anything past them after that.

Did they plant the key evidence? I have no idea.

Would they plant the evidence? Absolutely.

 

[Billy Bats]

BUT... lo and behold they went after almost noone else and their CB communication reflects that they expected to have SA in custody straight off the bat.

I was shocked by that myself when I heard it. "We found her car on the lot"

"Is he in custody?"

"Negative"

Wow that's the first, immediate thing that comes out of your mouth? Maybe that's SOP, I don't know and I could be very wrong. But Jesus they couldn't wait to get him cuffed and in jail, adds more to the lynch mob mentality IMO.

 

[Statorama]

Most people from Wisconsin don't even want to hear that there might be more than one side to the story. Why is that?

this is what I find most amazing. They say the documentary was biased yet they clearly are biased for the Wisconsin media covering the case at the time

Ive noticed that even people that have always been intellectually curious say things like "I'm not watching it because I know it won't change my mind". I find that the most compelling thing to them is the Dassey confession (which after watching the doc is the least compelling to me..I think at one point he confessed to helping a shark kill Captain Quint)

 

[Dan Lambskin]

Just finished it last night...not sure I'll catch up on this whole thread but really well done documentary, although I think it lost s little steam in the last few episodes

Also in the pantheon of scumbags pushy TV News Reporters/Cameramen have to be right at the top. ####### vultures make me sick

 

[cockroach]

I'm not sure how anyone can watch the confession by Brendan and not be sick to their stomach. It's complete garbage. And the cops whose job it is to protect kids single handedly destroy a mentally challenged kid. It's sickening.

These cops and prosecutors have no moral compass at all. Once you watch episode 3 and realize that is the type of people you are dealing with you realize they will do anything to get a conviction. If they will coerce a weak kid into a murder confession, they will literally do anything. I would not put anything past them after that.

Attorneys here have said they were just doing their job.

Not that I really disagree... but sick as fk

 

[cockroach]

BUT... lo and behold they went after almost noone else and their CB communication reflects that they expected to have SA in custody straight off the bat.

I was shocked by that myself when I heard it."We found her car on the lot"

"Is he in custody?"

"Negative"

Wow that's the first, immediate thing that comes out of your mouth? Maybe that's SOP, I don't know and I could be very wrong. But Jesus they couldn't wait to get him cuffed and in jail, adds more to the lynch mob mentality IMO.

No it's not SOP, it reflects their agenda.

For real man.. are you Fing kidding me?!?!?! It's 100% apparent from that communication that bagging Steven was the priority... Not finding the Truth.

Same with the interrogation of Brendan. Bag Steven.. not find the truth.

In fact, in what capacity did the state try to find the truth instead of manufacture it?

But yea, I'm just manipulated by the documentary title, Making a Murderer... because that's exactly what the state has done.

Ugh

 

[Sabertooth]

People have expressed suspicion of Mike Halbach but I think his brain just wanted to believe the cops got the son of a bitcth who killed his sister. He was spoon fed by Kratz. Look at guys like KingPrawn in this very thread, then imagine that this was your sibling. Easy to see how he could be brainwashed pretty easily.

 

[SIDA!]

People have expressed suspicion of Mike Halbach but I think his brain just wanted to believe the cops got the son of a bitcth who killed his sister. He was spoon fed by Kratz. Look at guys like KingPrawn in this very thread, then imagine that this was your sibling. Easy to see how he could be brainwashed pretty easily.

Agreed. But I still wanted to punch him in the face. He had know idea what was going on and got everything from Kratz who is so full of #### it is sickening.

You would think that being there each day at trial he would have gotten some red flags about the investigation.

I can only imagine what goes thru the mind of someone who loses a loved one like this. We have talked about the jury needing to convict because believing your police department is that corrupt is a bridge too far.

Imagine as a family member how much longer that bridge must be. You have to add on top of that the fact that her killer is still roaming free.

 

[cockroach]

People have expressed suspicion of Mike Halbach but I think his brain just wanted to believe the cops got the son of a bitcth who killed his sister. He was spoon fed by Kratz. Look at guys like KingPrawn in this very thread, then imagine that this was your sibling. Easy to see how he could be brainwashed pretty easily.

Agreed. But I still wanted to punch him in the face. He had know idea what was going on and got everything from Kratz who is so full of #### it is sickening.

You would think that being there each day at trial he would have gotten some red flags about the investigation.

I can only imagine what goes thru the mind of someone who loses a loved one like this. We have talked about the jury needing to convict because believing your police department is that corrupt is a bridge too far.

Imagine as a family member how much longer that bridge must be. You have to add on top of that the fact that her killer is still roaming free.

For sure... but then you see them paling around with smiles on their faces in between sessions

Maybe they're talking about Packer wins (?) but their interaction doesn't really seem as somber as you would think.

I don't really put that much into it but I can see why the people that do, can,

 

[Hooper31]

... the fact that her killer is still roaming free.

Fact? I think its possible, but fact?

 

[SIDA!]

... the fact that her killer is still roaming free.

Fact? I think its possible, but fact?

I was speaking in a general sense about how difficult it would be to believe your justice system is that corrupt and as a result a killer is on the loose.

Wasn't meaning to suggest that it is a fact that Avery is innocent.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I hope I never have to serve on a jury because I'd probably be charged with hendeca homicide.

 

[Nigel]

I'm halfway through and the thing I can't shake are to conversations Brendan has with his Mom, worrying about missing f'ng Wrestlemania, talking about how stupid he is...man I just wanted to give the poor ******* a hug.

And I'm not convinced Steven didn't do it but you would think a guy who had that in him would have copped to the rape just to get himself out of prison, if that's really all it would have taken like they suggested. But he was so steadfast, and same while in for the murder. I'd think an idiot like him would have rolled eventually or screwed up somehow in one of his many recorded phone conversations. Pretty damn good liar if that's what he was doing.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

From Jim Nortons Twitter

"I'm busy, go talk to the cops yourself. What are you, a #####?" - Attorney Len Kachinsky

#MakingAMurderer

"I'd love to plant some DNA evidence deep in YOUR trunk" - Ken Krantz via text message

#MakingAMurderer

Brendan Dassey- "Mom, what's... inconsistent?"

Mom - "The goals of this documentary"

Brendan Dassey - (2 hours later) "Oh"

#MakingAMurderer

 

[Sabertooth]

People have expressed suspicion of Mike Halbach but I think his brain just wanted to believe the cops got the son of a bitcth who killed his sister. He was spoon fed by Kratz. Look at guys like KingPrawn in this very thread, then imagine that this was your sibling. Easy to see how he could be brainwashed pretty easily.

Agreed. But I still wanted to punch him in the face. He had know idea what was going on and got everything from Kratz who is so full of #### it is sickening. You would think that being there each day at trial he would have gotten some red flags about the investigation.

I can only imagine what goes thru the mind of someone who loses a loved one like this. We have talked about the jury needing to convict because believing your police department is that corrupt is a bridge too far.

Imagine as a family member how much longer that bridge must be. You have to add on top of that the fact that her killer is still roaming free.

Dont get strange.

 

[bucksoh]

The Family was mentioned to be pure evil and I believe inbreds etc. Was this explained anywhere because this was just thrown out there and not really explained.

No it was just said to make the family look bad. Gonna need bigger prisons if we just start locking up inbreds, but hey Wisconsin is at least getting a head start by locking up these two.

 

[The Kerminator]

Like I said way back in this thread, like in the Serial case... if Avery DID do it... Manitowac is the most unlucky precinct in the world. And instead of SA being the obvious conclusion like he apparently was, they should have been doing their best to rule everyone that might've been a suspect out......... BUT... lo and behold they went after almost noone else and their CB communication reflects that they expected to have SA in custody straight off the bat.

To repeat. Considering the circumstances around this case, investigators should have done double due diligence in investigating possible suspects. Yet, only one person seems to be targeted, despite a massive conflict of interest and a history of prejudice against him (the prime and sole suspect).

But after her vehicle was found on the Avery property DNA samples and photographs of any wounds on the family members were court ordered

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/steven-avery/2016/01/07/new-search-avery-property/78433496/

Court orders required Steven Avery and seven of his family members to submit DNA samples after investigators said "evidence of a human nature" was found during the past five days of searching on the family's salvage yard west of here.

Family members also were ordered to provide photographs of any wounds on their bodies.

Steven, Chuck and Earl Avery are among family members who were ordered to provide DNA samples Wednesday. The others are their parents, Allan and Dolores Avery; their sister, Barb Janda; and Barb's sons, Bobby and Bryan Dossey.

Chuck Avery said Steven was arrested at Earl's home, while other family members were picked up by police and taken to a medical facility to provide DNA samples.

"They didn't say nothing," he said of police. "The warrants (were) for testing. They said we weren't under arrest."

I think I also read somewhere that the brother Mike and boyfriend were cleared through alibis (they were at work). Don't have a link anymore but I'll see if I can find it

 

[The Kerminator]

For those that are interested WTMJ (Milwaukee radio station) is airing a 2-hour special tonight in which they talk to some of the people involved in the case.

http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/tvradio/wtmj-am-plans-steven-avery-special-added-online-coverage-b99648385z1-364678551.html

 

[yak651]

Most people from Wisconsin don't even want to hear that there might be more than one side to the story. Why is that?

this is what I find most amazing. They say the documentary was biased yet they clearly are biased for the Wisconsin media covering the case at the time

Ive noticed that even people that have always been intellectually curious say things like "I'm not watching it because I know it won't change my mind". I find that the most compelling thing to them is the Dassey confession (which after watching the doc is the least compelling to me..I think at one point he confessed to helping a shark kill Captain Quint)

My FIL insist SA is guilty. The cops just planted evidence to "make sure" he was guilty. Didn't want to get into an argument with him, but I was like WTF?? He then goes "BD told them exactly how it happened, how would he know how it happened if he didn't do it?" Again, WTF, I told him the cops didn't know what happened, they were just guessing what could of happened and had him retell it. SMH

 

[Das Boot]

Most people from Wisconsin don't even want to hear that there might be more than one side to the story. Why is that?

this is what I find most amazing. They say the documentary was biased yet they clearly are biased for the Wisconsin media covering the case at the time

Ive noticed that even people that have always been intellectually curious say things like "I'm not watching it because I know it won't change my mind". I find that the most compelling thing to them is the Dassey confession (which after watching the doc is the least compelling to me..I think at one point he confessed to helping a shark kill Captain Quint)

My FIL insist SA is guilty. The cops just planted evidence to "make sure" he was guilty. Didn't want to get into an argument with him, but I was like WTF?? He then goes "BD told them exactly how it happened, how would he know how it happened if he didn't do it?" Again, WTF, I told him the cops didn't know what happened, they were just guessing what could of happened and had him retell it. SMH

I'm not sure if your FIL already was familiar with the case from back in the day, but I can truly understand anyone that knew what they knew about the case from what was on TV and in the newspapers as it played out.

I can also understand how difficult it would be for them to have to reconsider and recalibrate their opinions on Steven Avery after watching the documentary.

What I can't understand is anyone that would refuse to watch the documentary because they "already know the truth", or because "It's so one sided that it's worthless".

I honestly believe that anyone that is genuinely objective and open to new facts and seeking the truth will at least come out of the documentary with serious questions and concerns, and definitely less than the 100% certainty they may have gone into it with that SA was guilty of murder.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

 

[SacramentoBob]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

Complete scumbag.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

Complete scumbag.

yep, he's gotta be one the the creepiest guys i've seen. Close between him and Kratz, but both are just super off-putting.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

Complete scumbag.

yep, he's gotta be one the the creepiest guys i've seen. Close between him and Kratz, but both are just super off-putting.

We need to see what kind of woman would be with him.

 

[Mors Venit]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

Complete scumbag.

yep, he's gotta be one the the creepiest guys i've seen. Close between him and Kratz, but both are just super off-putting.

We need to see what kind of woman would be with him.

I dont think we should go down those roads.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

Len Kachinsky interviewed

http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/05/making-a-murder-brendan-dassey-len-kachinsky/

Complete scumbag.

yep, he's gotta be one the the creepiest guys i've seen. Close between him and Kratz, but both are just super off-putting.

We need to see what kind of woman would be with him.

I dont think we should go down those roads.

Oh hell no. Lets see who goes down on this guy.