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Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Flying Elvis
- Start date
If it was kinda bleeding but not really bleeding “out” which we all have experienced probbaly at some point...and exactly the kind of wound the pictures indicate....you know that cut you get at just the right spot on a finger hing or joint that is kind of heeling but then you bang it on something or bend your finger and it opens back up again because it hasn’t healed...?...it wasn’t a big blob on the dash...in fact it was more of a smear....the defense even wanted to act like a smear created by stealing some blood from a 10+ year old blood sample and put on with a qtip or something...or a smear of blood off his bathroom sink scrapped up and then smeared on by somebody else...whatever....Agree on the first point. Disagree on the second. If it was actively bleeding enough to leave a big blob on the dash, I have to think there would have been SOME other blood elsewhere in that driver's seat area. Could it be explained away? Of course. He could have been trying to do yoga in the front seat for all we know and accidentally removed his glove and bumped the dash and re-opened his cut. Point being, if you're looking for a reason for it to be there, it's easy to come up with one. And vice versa.And yes, it proves nothing, but it does cause doubt, which is the ENTIRE point.
not sure why people keep mentioning a glove...
as far as blood elsewhere.... if its not dripping/bleeding out there wont be blood elsewhere (gear shift, etc) ...and I doubt that Avery was really worried about fastening his “seatbelt” while driving on his property....
easy to see why there wasn’t blood from his finger anywhere else in the vehicle and if there was...it being exactly where they found it...
bottom line....his blood was in the vehicle
but still his DNA that somehow got there...in addition to his blood also being in the vehicle....combined equaling some epic frame job that would have taken a ton of time/precision...
Just because Avery was wrongfully accused/convicted of a previous crime....doesn’t mean he didn’t commit THIS crime....no matter how crooked you think the police are....he still could have done it...people have a hard time accepting that because of the previous injustice....but it doesn’t mean he didnt do THIS crime...
Sure he could have, but had he murdered a person before? We know that those officers have framed a man before. Avery has 36 million reasons to keep clean. The county has 36 million to find him dirty. I don't think there's a single piece of evidence or fact in this case that isn't surrounded by some mitigating circumstance that just creates more questions.
This case makes me hope there's a hell.
EYLive
Footballguy
I haven't read through all 67 pages of this thread so maybe it's been stated already, but i just got to thinking: the state questioned where Brendan got the image of a raped, stabbed and murdered Halbach came from if he didn't personally witness it... Bobby's sick butt showed those internet images to Brendan.
If you go into THIS case thinking there are $36 million reasons there is no reason Avery couldn’t have done it then there isn’t really much to say....
EYLive
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
i have zero issue with you thinking Avery is guilty. I think it's possible he did it. That said, there is enough doubt where i wouldn't feel comfortable putting him in prison for life.
Dickies
Footballguy
Correct. He could have but that is not the standard we use to convict someone to life in jail without parole
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
If Avery is innocent than F that ####er that is out there who killed her and watching this all play out.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
That's the saddest part. They targeted Avery and didn't look into anyone else. Law Enforcement didn't really look into any other suspects. They went all in on Avery.
Dickies
Footballguy
And basically every piece of evidence found didn’t follow standard protocols. The bones were never photographed in the fire pit and there are serious chain of command issues. The key was obviously planted. They didn’t swab any day their parts of the RAV4 besides the hood latch. The reason they swabbed the hoodlatch was the Dassey confession, but the interrogators fed him that he opened the hood before he said anything about it. Did they run fingerprints on the RAV4? The bullet in the garage was sitting on a dusty floor with no blood. Are we to believe they immaculately cleaned the floor but just left the bullet?
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Correct......the jury didn’t factor in the previous case/injustice....they went off the evidence in THIS case....
and found him guilty....
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Dickies
Footballguy
You said “he could have done it” which everyone will agree with. Don’t want another month TO, but I hope that if you are ever falsely accused that the jury doesn’t issue their judgement on the fact that you could have possibly committed the crime.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Done with season 2. Wow. Zellner is so sharp. I would LOVE to work on her investigative team. Here are the things I made note of throughout season 2, that I was either unaware of or had forgotten over the last 2 years:
Would sure love to hear the argument against any of the bolded, as Zellner makes some damn compelling arguments.
- multiple dogs, cadaver AND scent dogs tracking in and around the quarry property and then straight to where the RAV was found on the Avery property. (meaning that the car, and likely TH's body, had definitely left the Avery property)
- there was damage to a car that was blocking the road between Avery property and quarry property; on the damaged light that was in the back of the RAV, there was a smudge the same color as the damaged car; then later on, the State was very hesitant to discuss anything dealing with the damaged light
- the fire/cadaver expert said a 10-foot fire hot enough to incinerate a body would have needed a lot more fuel (i.e. more tires, or some tires plus something else) to keep the fire intense enough. Also there would have been a black/brown goo present from burning the body
- they were able to reproduce a projectile that was essentially identical to infamous bullet frag #FL by firing a .22 into the garage wall. There was zero bone fragment (only TH's DNA) but there was wood fragment on the bullet frag
- witness that spotted the RAV off of Avery property and told an officer, who turned out to be COBURN, the guy that made the call with the license plate number, and who never wrote this witness statement up in a police report; witness knew Scott Tadych who basically ignored his attempts to reach out; the RAV was spotted near property Tadych owned.
- the next day, Hillegas gets a plethora of phone calls (Zellner presumes that they are dropped calls bc they had dropped calls when in the quarry themselves) at the same time that Chuck Avery had reported seeing (head or tail) lights on their property
- Hillegas had the day planner page with TH's hand written note, that dickies mentioned above; cell records confirm calls were made to TH and make it nearly impossible that TH could have gone home, dropped the planner page off and made it to her next appointment
- multiple bone piles in the quarry, which were definitely human (unlike the "undeterminable if human" pelvis bone in the original trial) and had saw marks
Would sure love to hear the argument against any of the bolded, as Zellner makes some damn compelling arguments.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Well, technically they couldn't, because Buting and Strang lost their Denny trial prior to the proceedings that would have allowed them to look into other suspects, so they had to focus on Avery.
ill bite...lolDone with season 2. Wow. Zellner is so sharp. I would LOVE to work on her investigative team. Here are the things I made note of throughout season 2, that I was either unaware of or had forgotten over the last 2 years:
Would sure love to hear the argument against any of the bolded, as Zellner makes some damn compelling arguments.
- multiple dogs, cadaver AND scent dogs tracking in and around the quarry property and then straight to where the RAV was found on the Avery property. (meaning that the car, and likely TH's body, had definitely left the Avery property) ...Avery could have driven around with her dead body in the back for awhile (including off the property) trying to decide what to do with her and the car...or after he burned her, he could have driven around in the RAV for awhile trying to decide where to dump the RAV...probably initially thinking about dumping it on somebody elses property before ultimately just hiding it back on his property...TH's scent would still be in the RAV even if her body wasn't....so the RAV leaving the property and driving around close to the property and then coming back onto the property.....would explain the dogs tracking....
- there was damage to a car that was blocking the road between Avery property and quarry property; on the damaged light that was in the back of the RAV, there was a smudge the same color as the damaged car; then later on, the State was very hesitant to discuss anything dealing with the damaged light....could be nothing at all, lots of damaged cars on property....even if they confirm the smudge....Avery driving the car around before hiding it can explain the contact...the RAV very well may have caused the contact, but it could have been Avery driving....I think he may have initially been looking to dump the car off his property for obvious reasons...but decided not for whatever reason....maybe he thought it would be harder to find among all the cars on his salvage yard, then sitting by itself on somebody elses lot...
- the fire/cadaver expert said a 10-foot fire hot enough to incinerate a body would have needed a lot more fuel (i.e. more tires, or some tires plus something else) to keep the fire intense enough. Also there would have been a black/brown goo present from burning the body...I believe they also mentioned that burning it in a burn barrel first would be more effective as the heat is contained and not so spread out...some of TH's remains were found in a burn barrel on Avery's property, so the initial burning that did the most damage was in the barrel, and the remains were transferreed to the fire pit and spread around trying to further hide/destroy them....so that may have been the "10 foot fire" that was seen...obviously that 10 foot fire didn't finish/have the affect Avery was hoping...
- they were able to reproduce a projectile that was essentially identical to infamous bullet frag #FL by firing a .22 into the garage wall. There was zero bone fragment (only TH's DNA) but there was wood fragment on the bullet frag...I believe they hunted ground hogs around the garage and maybe some shots went in there or whatever is what they were saying with some of that....the only bullet that really matters (the one with TH's DNA)...and its possible for there to not be bone fragments, just DNA.....doesn't have to be bone fragments on the bullet....bullet could have hit the wood wall after hitting TH...
- witness that spotted the RAV off of Avery property and told an officer, who turned out to be COBURN, the guy that made the call with the license plate number, and who never wrote this witness statement up in a police report; witness knew Scott Tadych who basically ignored his attempts to reach out; the RAV was spotted near property Tadych owned. ....I think this has been covered that they never said the other RAV's that were spotted were CONFIRMED to be TH's RAV....so saying "the" RAV is not really fair....could have been lots of other RAV's that were seen....
- the next day, Hillegas gets a plethora of phone calls (Zellner presumes that they are dropped calls bc they had dropped calls when in the quarry themselves) at the same time that Chuck Avery had reported seeing (head or tail) lights on their property.....not sure how this plays a part, I may have missed the relevance here...
- Hillegas had the day planner page with TH's hand written note, that dickies mentioned above; cell records confirm calls were made to TH and make it nearly impossible that TH could have gone home, dropped the planner page off and made it to her next appointment....don't really know for sure...
- multiple bone piles in the quarry, which were definitely human (unlike the "undeterminable if human" pelvis bone in the original trial) and had saw marks...again, all of this really means nothing unless the bones are confirmed to be TH's and they (even Zellner) have been very careful to not actually say they are TH's....you would think that if after testing, these "other bones" proved to be TH's....that would be a HUGE part of the defense and what we saw....but right now that must be a non issue and seems to be a non issue because they have not been confirmed to be TH's bones...
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parrot
Footballguy
- multiple dogs, cadaver AND scent dogs tracking in and around the quarry property and then straight to where the RAV was found on the Avery property. (meaning that the car, and likely TH's body, had definitely left the Avery property)
- there was damage to a car that was blocking the road between Avery property and quarry property; on the damaged light that was in the back of the RAV, there was a smudge the same color as the damaged car; then later on, the State was very hesitant to discuss anything dealing with the damaged light
- the fire/cadaver expert said a 10-foot fire hot enough to incinerate a body would have needed a lot more fuel (i.e. more tires, or some tires plus something else) to keep the fire intense enough. Also there would have been a black/brown goo present from burning the body
- they were able to reproduce a projectile that was essentially identical to infamous bullet frag #FL by firing a .22 into the garage wall. There was zero bone fragment (only TH's DNA) but there was wood fragment on the bullet frag
- witness that spotted the RAV off of Avery property and told an officer, who turned out to be COBURN, the guy that made the call with the license plate number, and who never wrote this witness statement up in a police report; witness knew Scott Tadych who basically ignored his attempts to reach out; the RAV was spotted near property Tadych owned.
- Hillegas had the day planner page with TH's hand written note, that dickies mentioned above; cell records confirm calls were made to TH and make it nearly impossible that TH could have gone home, dropped the planner page off and made it to her next appointment
- multiple bone piles in the quarry, which were definitely human (unlike the "undeterminable if human" pelvis bone in the original trial) and had saw marks
Would sure love to hear the argument against any of the bolded, as Zellner makes some damn compelling arguments.
- The cadaver dogs also hit in Steve's trailer. What does she say about that?
- Any support for any of that?
- Dehann said very little about the fuel for the fire. What he said about the fire is that it would take more like 6 to 8 hours than the 4 hours claimed. Problem is the only people who have ever claimed the fire only burned 4 hours is defense lawyers. Steven could have fed and tended the fire all night.
- The vehicle that was spotted off Avery property had at least two broken windows according to a different witness, including a hole in the windshield. There were no broken windows on Halbach's RAV4. Rahmlow claims to have reported it to Colborn while he was in uniform but Colborn testified at trial that he hadn't worked that day. Rahmlow claimed to only recognize Colborn after watching MaM but Colborn had actually written him a DUI in the past.
- Phone records clearly that Halbach was home the morning they claim she was in Sheboygan. Every cell call she made or received that morning went through the tower by her home. She also sent a fax by landline to AutoTrader at 11:16, and received a fax confirming the details of the Janda appointment after noon. No one from Sheboygan has ever claimed to have met with or seen her there that morning.
- I've never seen anything that says any of the bones in the quarry were "definitely human". Does she offer any support for that contention?
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
- Nothing that I have seen, but she may have addressed it. But if she was in there, that would blow to hell the theory that she was killed in the garage, unless you contend that she was killed in the garage then brought back into the house. Or are we back to her being killed in the bedroom? I can't keep straight whose theory is whose.
- none that has been presented thus far, except that the State balked at it being tested which was a red flag; I just found that interesting
- correct, and it could have been another fuel besides tires, if you believe that is where she was burned; however, no goo, so she wasn't burned there
- I'm not sure that's the same one. If it is, and Colburn never reported it, there's no excuse for that, regardless; I'll try to research that line of questioning more, as I've slept since then
- There is definitely more than "no one" claiming that they talked to her while she was on the road, which is when she was to have made the notes. At least 2 people, IIRC. I will check back on the fax thing. I do vaguely remember something about a fax, but then again, anyone could send a fax, unless there was a corresponding phone call from her regarding the fax.
- The only bone I recall being discussed at all from the quarry was the pelvic bone, which was classified at the original trial as being "possibly human." Maybe I'm forgetting something, though. One of the final 2 (I think, I marathonned them) episodes of S2, they refer to the 3 locations at the quarry where bones were recovered, all hit on by the dogs, IIRC.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
parrot
Footballguy
- Do cadaver dogs only hit on cadavers, or do they also hit on someone who has handled a cadaver?
- The only thing Dehaan says remotely about goo is that there was some present -
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/037-Affidavit-of-Dr-DeHaan2.pdf
- Colborn never reported anything because it's not remotely clear that it was Colborn he talked to. Colborn did not work the day it supposedly took place and another officer form another department called in from the location where that conversation supposedly occurred to inquire about details of the case. It's entirely possible that it was the other officer he spoke to.
- Several people talked to Theresa on the phone, but no one can actually put her in Sheboygan at the time they claim she was there. Her phone records indicate she was home that whole morning.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
No clue on the dogs.
I'll read that doc, thanks, don't think I've read that one.
KZ said the witness recognized Colburn (by appearance) when he was watching MAM S1
And if no report was written, it's easy to refute I guess. Also depends on credibility of the witness, I suppose. Perhaps KZ was just dangling some bait out there. Again, she has witnesses saying TH was on the road, per TH's admission to them. I don't know what phone records you are referring to, but she was definitely not home the whole morning, according to her (KZ) sources. Moreover, I would think KZ researched that before stating it as evidence though. There were lots of phone records cross-referenced in S2.
don't mean to just pick out the bolded....but this is an example of things that bug me sometimes....we have NO CLUE "when" she actually made those notes....
doowain
Footballguy
@parrot
Zellner stated that the dog that hit on the trailer was not a cadaver dog but a "remains" dog I believe (she referred to the dog as the "ace something" dog). And she said that a "remains" dog will hit on blood. She claimed that the dog hitting on blood in the trailer would not be surprising because it hit on the bathroom where Steven admitted to having bled in.
Zellner stated that the dog that hit on the trailer was not a cadaver dog but a "remains" dog I believe (she referred to the dog as the "ace something" dog). And she said that a "remains" dog will hit on blood. She claimed that the dog hitting on blood in the trailer would not be surprising because it hit on the bathroom where Steven admitted to having bled in.
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doowain
Footballguy
So where are all the bones? The experts in S2 said there should've been vertebrae, ribs, etc that survived the fire and not one was found anywhere on the property.
I think they said that a professionally done cremation will result in roughly 10 pounds of remains. I think the bones recovered added up to less than two pounds?
This makes me believe she was burned elsewhere and planted in the burn pit.
I think they said that a professionally done cremation will result in roughly 10 pounds of remains. I think the bones recovered added up to less than two pounds?
This makes me believe she was burned elsewhere and planted in the burn pit.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
That was per KZ's witnesses as they both said she was on the road when they talked to her. I do understand, however, witnesses can be refuted.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
See that's the problem with a one-sided documentary. You got Zellner's theories and her hired experts theories of what happened. You didn't get to hear other experts who could easily explain away those theories with science, facts, and theories of their own. Thanks to Stinkin Ref for showing how readily available alternative explanations are.
This is where critical thinking comes in. I watched Part 2 as well and at times had no choice but to ask myself if Zellner was on to something in some instances. Documentaries are great at making you pause and wonder if you're wrong. But watching Zellner continue to strike out and then go in completely different directions is when I realized that if she truly had something, then 1) an appeal would have been granted at some point and 2) she would have been able to latch on to something and stick to it.
Go beyond the doc and you'll see that one of the best in the business, (Zellner) has gotten nowhere with courts inside and outside of Wisconsin because there is no real solid science to support her or her hired experts' theories.
This is where critical thinking comes in. I watched Part 2 as well and at times had no choice but to ask myself if Zellner was on to something in some instances. Documentaries are great at making you pause and wonder if you're wrong. But watching Zellner continue to strike out and then go in completely different directions is when I realized that if she truly had something, then 1) an appeal would have been granted at some point and 2) she would have been able to latch on to something and stick to it.
Go beyond the doc and you'll see that one of the best in the business, (Zellner) has gotten nowhere with courts inside and outside of Wisconsin because there is no real solid science to support her or her hired experts' theories.
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doowain
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Well for one, Stinkin Ref did it within 2 hours time of NRJ posting them.
And accurate or not if he appeared on the doc billed as an expert it would be eaten up by believers of Avery's guilt just as easily as Zellner's experts theories were eaten up by the conspiracy theorists. That's how one-sided reporting works. Appear on TV and be believed.If go outside the doc, you'll see that none of these theories presented by Zellner have stood up.
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Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Comments added above.See that's the problem with a one-sided documentary. You got Zellner's theories and her hired experts theories of what happened. You didn't get to hear other experts who could easily explain away those theories with science, facts, and theories of their own. Thanks to Stinkin Ref for showing how readily available alternative explanations are.
Link to those other experts? Everybody knows those are HER experts. But they are making damn compelling arguments.
This is where critical thinking comes in. I watched Part 2 as well and at times had no choice but to ask myself if Zellner was on to something in some instances. Documentaries are great at making you pause and wonder if you're wrong. But watching Zellner continue to strike out and then go in completely different directions is when I realized that if she truly had something, then 1) an appeal would have been granted at some point and 2) she would have been able to latch on to something and stick to it.
you mean you had reasonable doubt?Disagree with 1 and 2 at the end. That's how it should work, but sadly, in reality that's not how it works with the court system. That's exactly what she's showing. And look at Brendan's trial. 3 out of 7 judges didn't even agree, and they've seen and heard ALL the evidence. And that one judge that issued a denial before they could have the evidentiary hearing TO WHICH THE STATE HAD AGREED TO. Seemed compelling enough to them. But it got shut down by the woman judge, so KZ has to keep adding evidence to her filing until she gets enough to persuade this woman. I believe she will.
Go beyond the doc and you'll see that one of the best in the business, (Zellner) has gotten nowhere with courts inside and outside of Wisconsin because there is no real solid science to support her or her hired experts' theories.
See above.
Just curious. What is your exact theory on what happened? You agree beyond reasonable doubt with everything the state presented at the original trial?
doowain
Footballguy
The two posts I made above cannot be "easily explained away".Well for one, Stinkin Ref did it within 2 hours time of NRJ posting them.
If go outside the doc, you'll see that none of these theories presented by Zellner have stood up.
And I added some follow up to the question on the "cadaver dogs".
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Well for one, Stinkin Ref did it within 2 hours time of NRJ posting them.
If go outside the doc, you'll see that none of these theories presented by Zellner have stood up.
I doubt Ref's commentary would stand up in court. Just his spitballing. I guess you have to take it on faith that KZ's experts have been vetted. She's won how many wrongful conviction cases? She's not an amateur at this. I'm saying if they were interviewing Bill Johnson, retired trucker from Waxahachee, who once built a 20-foot bonfire and burned some deer bones, then you'd have a valid point here.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Literally every single point of the State's case can be "explained away" which is, in theory, the whole point of this documentary. One-sided or not. Guilty or not. There's PLENTY of evidence, and lack thereof, to raise eyebrows here.
But like KZ said in the show. When you figure out what actually happened by piecing together the evidence, everything fits. All the interviews, evidence, timelines, etc.
But like KZ said in the show. When you figure out what actually happened by piecing together the evidence, everything fits. All the interviews, evidence, timelines, etc.
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Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I think every juror has moments of reasonable doubt when they're listening to a defense attorney making their case. And then the prosecutor gets their turn and those reasonable doubts are washed away. So yes Zellner made compelling arguments at times. She's damn good at what she does. But she also hit dead ends each and every time trying to make her theories hold up. She then pursues completely different avenues and theories and strikes out there as well.
If you were in a courtroom and a defense attorney raised a compelling theory that was proven false and they in turn came up with an entirely different theory that was also proven to be based on faulty science, and so and so on, rinse, repeat, you as a juror would eventually realize that the guy was guilty. That's a summation of Zellner's efforts in the Avery case. She's essentially carpet bombing the case with new and drastically different scenarios. And as great as she is, no court on any level, in or out of Wisconsin, has seen anything to grant an appeal with. That's very telling.
If you were in a courtroom and a defense attorney raised a compelling theory that was proven false and they in turn came up with an entirely different theory that was also proven to be based on faulty science, and so and so on, rinse, repeat, you as a juror would eventually realize that the guy was guilty. That's a summation of Zellner's efforts in the Avery case. She's essentially carpet bombing the case with new and drastically different scenarios. And as great as she is, no court on any level, in or out of Wisconsin, has seen anything to grant an appeal with. That's very telling.
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Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
what dead ends are you even referring to? I haven't seen her back off of anything. They're all related bits and pieces. She's putting the puzzle together. Maybe linking pieces haven't been found yet to connect other parts, but it's not over yet. She didn't look the least bit rattled by the appeal denial, just pissed that the judge precluded their agreement on the evidentiary hearing. I know I know, one-sided. We didn't get to see her be rattled.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
See that's the thing, I don't take it on faith that her experts would hold up in court. In fact, by all appearances, appellate courts haven't found her experts compelling at all. These are people experimenting with scenarios that they will even admit might not be accurate depictions of how things happened. They experiment until they can find a way that yields a desired result. That's good enough for the doc but not good enough for the courts. And thank goodness the courts have a higher standard than Netflix.
parrot
Footballguy
Aren't remains dogs and cadaver dogs the same thing? In the handler's report she describes Brutus as a cadaver dog.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-46-Scent-and-Cadaver-Dogs-Reports.pdf page 4
Zellner has witnesses saying she was on the road based on recollections from short phone conversations from more than a decade ago, and possibly prodded by Zellner's people. Halbach's phone records indicate she was home or in the near vicinity of home until early afternoon. Notice the calls at the bottom of this document. The ICell column is the tower designation. The first four digits are the tower number and the fifth digit is the sector antenna; 1-3 at 120 degrees per antenna for 360 degree coverage. All her calls that morning go through tower 2111, and antenna 2. Tower 2111 was Halbach's home tower. The last call from 2111 is at 12:51. She also received a landline call and sent a landline fax at approx 11:15.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/569ea7c30e4c11ec47a6e23b/1453238212012/Teresa+Cell+Records.png
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shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
This is what it boils down to. There is a lot that when presented in a dramatic way in a one-sided manner, seems that is should be obvious that there is plenty of reasonable doubt. However, when presented in a court with facts from both sides, it's a different story.
Reasonable doubt <> any doubt.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
You realize that can be done for just about every guilty verdict, right? Should we let everyone out of prison where the crime wasn't captured on video?
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Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
No. No it cannot. Not when there is irrefutable evidence that backs up the story the prosecution tells. That is the entire point.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Did you already forget how she was convinced that the neighbor did it? Then she arranged a tour of his property hoping to catch him in a "gotcha" moment. All it took was him being an "upstanding" guy for her to abandon that theory. Which was next, the ex boyfriend or the father in-law? Dead ends.what dead ends are you even referring to? I haven't seen her back off of anything. They're all related bits and pieces. She's putting the puzzle together. Maybe linking pieces haven't been found yet to connect other parts, but it's not over yet. She didn't look the least bit rattled by the appeal denial, just pissed that the judge precluded their agreement on the evidentiary hearing. I know I know, one-sided. We didn't get to see her be rattled.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Gonna need names. At least 2 of those 3 were in season 2 and are definitely not dead ends. I have no clue whose father-in-law you're referring to.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Sure it can. For every experiment that shows Oswald acted alone and that all the shots came from the 6th floor of the school book depository, there are 10 that say it was impossible. But science has not only shown he could have fired all the shots, it's also shown that the trajectories lined up. In the end it comes down to who a juror believes. They tend to believe the experts and theories best backed by science and with the fewest holes. None of Zellner's expert theories have been compelling enough to even grant a trial much less convince a jury of innocence.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
is that linked from the SA site?
parrot
Footballguy
Is this the part where Scott and Bobby killed her and were helped in their framing by Ryan and law enforcement? What is Ryan's motive anyway? Why does he give a rat's ### about Avery? Doesn't he want justice for his friend?
You know that she originally had Ryan doing it all, right? Killing, burning, framing, all of it (with maybe just a little assist from LE on the key and DNA). Completely undetected of course, somehow, without any evident working knowledge of the the area since he lived 30 or 40 miles away.
This was when Zellner was tweeting that not only did Steve have an airtight alibi, but she could prove who the real killer was.
That was right up until she had to switch "real killer" to completely different killers because Ryan really did have an airtight alibi for when he supposedly snuck in and grabbed Steve's blood (boy, talk about your dumb luck there, huh?). And she knows the EDTA test is rock solid, so she has to throw in Bobby to get the blood, but Bobby is alibied by Scott so she has to throw Scott in...
It's amazing how everything "fits" when you just keep adding entities til you can make it "fit", no matter how outlandish it gets.
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