Marion Barber (1 Viewer)

[Warehouse Nasty]

Am I the only one who thinks Marion Barber will finish top 3 in fantasy this year? The guy was #7 last year despite only averaging 13 carries a game. This year, he's the starting back and should get 18-20 carries per game. He's proven he can catch out of the backfield so he's an every down back. He's in one of the best offenses in the NFL so he should see plenty of goal line opportunities.

Why aren't people higher on him? If he gets 18+ carries a game, I'm not sure how he doesn't finish top 2-3 this year. Do people think Felix Jones will see that many carries? I'm not getting why he's not ranked higher outside of the fact that people are hesitant to stick their neck out there when he hasn't done it before.

But there's a big difference between not having done it before due to lack of opportunity and not having done it before due to lack of ability.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Felix >>> Julius

 

[Brutis]

Im hoping the felix jones hype gets so out of control i can steal MBIII later.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

Felix >>> Julius

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with. If I knew Barber would get 75% of the touches, I wouldn't hesitate to pick him. After going through the Dallas stats from last year, there were only 23 carries a game to split between Barber and JJ. Unless that goes up, I guess Barber has to be projected for only about 15-16. This one's tough for me. He's got the talent, all he needs is the opportunity.

 

[Avery]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

 

[Avery]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Well, I hate when people correct spelling on a message board when you know damn well what I meant but...I think one big difference in that Felix Jones is much more talented than Keith and Rhodes and the Arkansas connection with Jerry assures Jones a significant role on the team.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Keith and Rhodes and Hart are NO threat. The touches they get will be to keep Addai fresh, nothing more.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

It's possible. I see Lynch going before him all the time. I've yet to figure out way.

Barber will probably score more this season than the entire Bills offense.

 

[aburt19]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying.

In this case the saying is true.I have my doubts that Barber is going to be carrying the ball 20 times a game. I think that he'll get a few more carries, but I would not expect 300.I would project around 250.

 

[FFdork]

I think Barber could finish top 3, but I actually think it's more likely he disappoints where he's getting drafted. I love the guy and how he plays the game, but because of the way he plays I'm not sure I see him making it through a 300+ carry season.

Plus, as others have pointed out, he can only reach his ceiling if the Cowboys plan to give him the majority of the carries. The one two punch of Barber and Felix seems to have a lot of potential. I just can't see how it serves the Cowboy's Superbowl aspirations to run Barber into the ground in the regular season while leaving another very talented RB riding the pine.

 

[Tau837]

This has been discussed many times in other threads. Did you try the search function?

To summarize, many feel Barber is unlikely to get more than a trivial increase in touches from last year.

 

[Weiner Dog]

Felix >>> Julius

Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with. If I knew Barber would get 75% of the touches, I wouldn't hesitate to pick him. After going through the Dallas stats from last year, there were only 23 carries a game to split between Barber and JJ. Unless that goes up, I guess Barber has to be projected for only about 15-16. This one's tough for me. He's got the talent, all he needs is the opportunity.

Best summary in this thread.Unless you think Felix receives 5 carries or less per game, it would be hard to give Barber the "workhorse" label applied to most Top-5 RB's (with Westbrook as the obvious exception).Also, it is difficult to predict TD's for RB's. With double-digit TD's needed to offset his sub 300-carry workload, Barber has little room for error.

 

[spy231]

I like when I heard Jason Garrett say that MBIII is an every down back. He will be in the game on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd downs. When asked why they did not draft Mendenhall he said because we have an every down back. We needed a change of pace back and that is what Felix Jones is.

I live in Dallas and own him in 2 leagues so of course I am bias. I see top 5 easy and top 3 very possible.

 

[switz]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Felix will get more than 10, Choice will get a few, and Andrson will get some goal line carries. Even with the increase in touches that Barber should see, I doubt he finished higher than last season as his YPC goes down, and he loses some goal line touches. Plus Felix will do far more with his touches that Julius did.

 

[cjack]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

 

[Bobtender]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Juliusso, why would Barbers carries go way up.plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

 

[Brutis]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Juliusso, why would Barbers carries go way up.

Because HE'S the starter and his backup is barely 200 pounds.

 

[poo flingin monkey]

Barber has averaged 14 TD's the past two season's. It is not out of the question that he can score closer to 20.

He is probably one of the least risky RB picks in the top 10 outside of LT. Last year he was very consistent and should average 1 TD and rush for 80-100 yds a game.

Barber may not have the high ceiling like ADP & S Jax, but he should also avoid single digit points as well.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Julius

so, why would Barbers carries go way up.

plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

Because Felix is a change of pace back that's specifically designed to compliment Barber ala Reggie Bush to Deuce McAllister Reggie's rookie year. Julius was a 3-down back that shared a similar skill set so he and Barber shared time. I think Felix will play a more specialized role.

 

[KellysHeroes]

After LT, ADP, Addai, & Westy... I'm jumping on Barber3.

Double digit TDs are almost a given... and F Jones is a pure COP back... IMO, theres no danger of Jones steal a major share of carries while MBIII is healthy.

If your landing Barber at 8 or higher.. ur getting a major steal in the draft.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Felix will get more than 10, Choice will get a few, and Andrson will get some goal line carries. Even with the increase in touches that Barber should see, I doubt he finished higher than last season as his YPC goes down, and he loses some goal line touches. Plus Felix will do far more with his touches that Julius did.

Explain this one to me. Barber is one of the bigger and probably more effective backs in short-yardage situations. Why would they take him out to put in a 2nd year fullback? Is this something you heard or just speculation? If it's speculation, are you ignoring the fact that he got zero carries all season last year?

 

[Brutis]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Felix will get more than 10, Choice will get a few, and Andrson will get some goal line carries. Even with the increase in touches that Barber should see, I doubt he finished higher than last season as his YPC goes down, and he loses some goal line touches. Plus Felix will do far more with his touches that Julius did.

Explain this one to me. Barber is one of the bigger and probably more effective backs in short-yardage situations. Why would they take him out to put in a 2nd year fullback? Ignore the fact that he got zero carries all season last year...

The cowboys gave Anderson a goal line carry in the preseason game against the chargers. That pretty much means they will give anderson the ball at the goal line all year. Dont you understand that.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Felix will get more than 10, Choice will get a few, and Andrson will get some goal line carries. Even with the increase in touches that Barber should see, I doubt he finished higher than last season as his YPC goes down, and he loses some goal line touches. Plus Felix will do far more with his touches that Julius did.

Explain this one to me. Barber is one of the bigger and probably more effective backs in short-yardage situations. Why would they take him out to put in a 2nd year fullback? Ignore the fact that he got zero carries all season last year...

The cowboys gave Anderson a goal line carry in the preseason game against the chargers. That pretty much means they will give anderson the ball at the goal line all year. Dont you understand that.

Lol-is this where that's coming from? If that's all this is, I'm inclined to believe a complete regular season of data over the first preseason game. But hey, that's just me...

 

[BigJim®]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Felix will get more than 10, Choice will get a few, and Andrson will get some goal line carries. Even with the increase in touches that Barber should see, I doubt he finished higher than last season as his YPC goes down, and he loses some goal line touches. Plus Felix will do far more with his touches that Julius did.

Explain this one to me. Barber is one of the bigger and probably more effective backs in short-yardage situations. Why would they take him out to put in a 2nd year fullback? Ignore the fact that he got zero carries all season last year...

The cowboys gave Anderson a goal line carry in the preseason game against the chargers. That pretty much means they will give anderson the ball at the goal line all year. Dont you understand that.

 

[H.K.]

Barber was getting the lion's share of the meaningful carries by mid-season last year, so I don't think his upside is much higher than how he performed last year. As many have pointed out, Felix Jones will most likely get at least what Julius was getting, most likely more. Add to that the fact that they seem to prefer the pass in the red zone. Also, Choice is a respectable option so he may get a few carries as well. All in all, I just don't think he has the upside of the other top 3-5 backs.

Felix > Julius

so, why would Barbers carries go way up.

plus fantasy playoffs he has Pit, NYG and Balt

Because Felix is a change of pace back that's specifically designed to compliment Barber ala Reggie Bush to Deuce McAllister Reggie's rookie year. Julius was a 3-down back that shared a similar skill set so he and Barber shared time. I think Felix will play a more specialized role.

The first 6 games of the season, Barber and Jones both averaged about 13 touches a game (78 to 75 in favor of Barber)...half the time Jones had more touches than Barber in those games.After Week 6, Jones never had more touches than Barber in a game (excluding Week 17 when Dallas starters played about a half).

Barber averaged 18 touches a week to Jone's 11 during that span.

Even with a similar 2-1 split between MB & Felix this year, Barber may not be a 20 carry a week RB, but he should be a 20 touch per week RB. Considering he'll get the GL love in a high powered offense, he'll get enough opportunity to be a top 5 RB.

 

[Banger]

After LT, ADP, Addai, & Westy... I'm jumping on Barber3. Double digit TDs are almost a given... and F Jones is a pure COP back... IMO, theres no danger of Jones steal a major share of carries while MBIII is healthy.If your landing Barber at 8 or higher.. ur getting a major steal in the draft.

Maybe Jones won't steal a major share of carries but what if his carries stay relatively the same? They didn't spend a 1st rounder on Jones to have him watch. If it ain't broke don't fix it and Barber's been very successful at being very productive with limited carries. If Dallas didn't draft a very talented back in the 1st round I'd fully agree with you but they did so I don't. In the Giant playoff game Barber got a season high 27 carries for 129 - 1 which looks to be a great game. Looking closer at the game and stats it's not as pretty. In the 1st half he ran for 16-101-1 (6.31 ypc) and was great and powerful. The 2nd half he ran for 11-28 (2.54 ypc) and looked totally gassed. You would think that a player like Barber and his style would wear down the defense but the exact opposite occurred. Don't think that the Cowboys/Jerry Jones didn't notice this. Consider that during the season Barber's 1st half/2nd half splits. Through week 16 (week 17 they essentially sat him) Barber had a 40/60 split between his 1st and 2nd half carries. In 82 first half carries he ran for a 4.43 ypc but in the 2nd half of games he had 118 carries for a 5.2 ypc, a stark contrast. Barber's normal role would be to let J. Jones get some early carries in the game and then be fresh down the stretch and close out the game. They got away from that strategy in that game and it cost them.Can he be that 20+ carry a game back over a 16 game schedule with his ultra-violent running style? I think the fact that the Cowboys drafted Jones in the 1st round answers that question.

 

[BigJim®]

The 2nd half he ran for 11-28 (2.54 ypc) and looked totally gassed.

This claim is reaching folklore status. Basically, the inferrence here is there's just no way the Giants coaching staff reacted at halftime to being run over in the first half. When there were no more holes to run through, that means Barber was tired. Gee how convenient that this myth lends credance to the unfounded claims MBIII can't handle a full load.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

After LT, ADP, Addai, & Westy... I'm jumping on Barber3. Double digit TDs are almost a given... and F Jones is a pure COP back... IMO, theres no danger of Jones steal a major share of carries while MBIII is healthy.If your landing Barber at 8 or higher.. ur getting a major steal in the draft.

Maybe Jones won't steal a major share of carries but what if his carries stay relatively the same? They didn't spend a 1st rounder on Jones to have him watch. If it ain't broke don't fix it and Barber's been very successful at being very productive with limited carries. If Dallas didn't draft a very talented back in the 1st round I'd fully agree with you but they did so I don't. In the Giant playoff game Barber got a season high 27 carries for 129 - 1 which looks to be a great game. Looking closer at the game and stats it's not as pretty. In the 1st half he ran for 16-101-1 (6.31 ypc) and was great and powerful. The 2nd half he ran for 11-28 (2.54 ypc) and looked totally gassed. You would think that a player like Barber and his style would wear down the defense but the exact opposite occurred. Don't think that the Cowboys/Jerry Jones didn't notice this. Consider that during the season Barber's 1st half/2nd half splits. Through week 16 (week 17 they essentially sat him) Barber had a 40/60 split between his 1st and 2nd half carries. In 82 first half carries he ran for a 4.43 ypc but in the 2nd half of games he had 118 carries for a 5.2 ypc, a stark contrast. Barber's normal role would be to let J. Jones get some early carries in the game and then be fresh down the stretch and close out the game. They got away from that strategy in that game and it cost them.Can he be that 20+ carry a game back over a 16 game schedule with his ultra-violent running style? I think the fact that the Cowboys drafted Jones in the 1st round answers that question.

These are good points. To clarify, I don't think you draft Barber hoping he gets 20+ carries a game. I think you draft Barber hoping his carries increase by about 15% over last year and therefore his production increases to a similar extent. With Barber's talent in the Cowboys prolific offense, he doesn't need as many carries as other RB's to be as good a fantasy RB. The passing game opens up running space for him and their offense should move the ball effectively leading to more goal line opportunities than the average RB. Of course, that assumes that he doesn't lose goal-line carries to the FB that got zero carries on the season last year.

 

[Banger]

The 2nd half he ran for 11-28 (2.54 ypc) and looked totally gassed.

This claim is reaching folklore status. Basically, the inferrence here is there's just no way the Giants coaching staff reacted at halftime to being run over in the first half. When there were no more holes to run through, that means Barber was tired. Gee how convenient that this myth lends credance to the unfounded claims MBIII can't handle a full load.

Is it a myth? I saw the game and looked at the stats and it was night and day. All year he was effective with a smaller load and a 40/60 1st half/2nd half split then the when they give him a 60/40 split his 2nd half splits were dreadful (in the most important game of the year). You don't know that he can handle the full load and I don't know but what I do know is that they drafted a very talented RB in the 1st round that looks to be a better version of J. Jones. In most cases, even if there isn't a hole to run through Barber runs through/over defenders and that happened in the 1st half and not in the 2nd. I don't know why it's such a stretch to conclude that Barber may have tired running for the most carries/yards in his career.

The idea is to win games and the Cowboys/Barber were extremely successful at having J. Jones run in the 1st half and have the battering ram Barber come in in the 2nd and close the game out. Realistically, why would they get away from that? The fact that they drafted F. Jones indicates to me that they plan to use him much the same way that they did J. Jones. I could be wrong but that's how I read the situation. Unlike most people in this debate I have no horse in this race (don't own either guy) and am looking at this from an objective POV. Actually, if you go back and search a few years ago I was against the grain in arguing that Barber was going to take over the role from J. Jones (with I believe Bankerguy and some other Cowboy homers).

 

[switz]

The 2nd half he ran for 11-28 (2.54 ypc) and looked totally gassed.

This claim is reaching folklore status. Basically, the inferrence here is there's just no way the Giants coaching staff reacted at halftime to being run over in the first half. When there were no more holes to run through, that means Barber was tired. Gee how convenient that this myth lends credance to the unfounded claims MBIII can't handle a full load.

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.Either Barber was gassed, or coaches figured out how to eliminate him from the game. Neither one is especially positive for his prospects this year. However, just as a note, anyone who watched that game saw that Barber looked tired in the second half.

As for the Anderson thing... he will be used at the goal line. The I Formation they ran that play from will only be effective if Anderson gets a shot once in a while. The other formation they've been playing with in camp has Barber as the FB and Jones as the TB. So in those formations, Jones will get a shot once in a while as well. Otherwise defenses will not respect the options available on that play, if the ball always goes to Barber.

Barber will still no doubt get the majority of goal line carries, but that majority may be a smaller overall number than last season.

Also, anyone who still thinks Jones is a COP back after the preseason game, where he ran very effectively even on inside carries, moved the pile on one carry, and showed tremendous burt is fooling themselves.

As for the barely 200 pounds - I'm not even sure where that comes from. He was 207 at the combine, and 212 when he reported to camp. Some of the most successful RBs in NFL history are about the same size as Jones currently is.

 

[BigJim®]

Is it a myth? I saw the game and looked at the stats and it was night and day.

Well if it was so obvious to you, there must be an observation from some source somewhere that shares that impression. You know, the sort of observation that is from a non-FBG, non-MBIII basher. A simple "Barber appeared tired" would be grand. I welcome this myth being dispelled.TIA

 

[Banger]

Is it a myth? I saw the game and looked at the stats and it was night and day.

Well if it was so obvious to you, there must be an observation from some source somewhere that shares that impression. You know, the sort of observation that is from a non-FBG, non-MBIII basher. A simple "Barber appeared tired" would be grand. I welcome this myth being dispelled.TIA

As I said, I'm not a MB3 basher and in fact have often been on the other side of the coin in support of him when many were on the JJ bandwagon. This is a message board and I'm giving my opinion and you can take it or leave it. I watched the game, saw the change in role, saw his effectiveness and stated my opinion. Let me ask you this...if they wanted to give the full time gig to MB why would they draft a talented RB in the mold of J. Jones in the 1st round? Ordinarily, if a team is content with a position they don't spend a 1st round pick on a player they don't see a big role for. A 1st round pick is a big deal, talent wise and money wise and these decisions aren't made lightly and shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Ridgelake]

As for the playoff game, it appeared to me that the OLINE got gassed more than Barber. That and the Giants schemed better in the second half. Yes, Barber got tired too, but my take was the other issues were the more prevalent factors in the 2nd half decline.

Felix is NOT a copy of Julius. JJ is a full time back who they wanted to develop into a guy they could split out, put in space, etc. But he didnt develop that way. Felix was drafted explicitly to complement Barber. They wanted a guy who they can put in the slot, create mis-matches, who can take it to the house on any given play. And it appears he can do those things. It also turns out that he has the size to become a 3 down player. He appears to have the blocking skills necessary to do that as well. Put it this way. Julius was a general use RB that they wanted to be a specialist but couldnt do it. Felix is a specialist who also appears to have the skills to be a full use guy.

 

[Jon_Moore]

While I have no doubts Barber can carry the load, my opinion doesn't matter. Until the coaching staff shows that same faith in him, he's going to be projected for less touches than other top backs.

 

[Sweetness_34]

One assumption that a lot of posters who think Barber can be top 3 if given enough carries are making is that he can actually stay healthy with a bigger load. His style of running involves a lot of contact. Dallas's goal is to win the SB; not the FF Championship. They would much rather have Barber healthy and still on full throttle for the playoffs. That is why i am not sold on him being worth a mid 1st round pick. I would much rather take Portis and/or Larry Johnson than Barber but that is just me.

 

[BigJim®]

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.

As I mentioned in my prior post, any link to a credible, non-biased source who says "Barber appeared tired" would be greatly appreciated. I'm certain you would agree I can readily find tens, if not hundreds, of examples where top tier RBs had great success in the first half, only to be schemed into oblivion in the 2nd half. Pretty sure it happens to the likes of LT, Faulk, SJ and any RB who utterly humiliates a defense in a 1st half of a game. You guys can draw whatever inference you want based on that one game; just don't pretend you're considering all relevant factors. If a RB can have great 1st half success and force a defense to account for him in the 2nd half, he's doing what a starting RB should be doing. It's not like RBs ran all over NY in the playoffs last year; Tampa averaged 3.1 YPC and mustered only 69 rushing yards; Green Bay had a whopping 29 rushing yards; New England accumulated 45 rushing yards and a 2.8 YPC average. That looks like a heck of a lot of "tired" RBs to me. If anything, Barber should be given credit for being the one RB who was able to gash a strong rush defense.

 

[Andy Herron]

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.

As I mentioned in my prior post, any link to a credible, non-biased source who says "Barber appeared tired" would be greatly appreciated. I'm certain you would agree I can readily find tens, if not hundreds, of examples where top tier RBs had great success in the first half, only to be schemed into oblivion in the 2nd half. Pretty sure it happens to the likes of LT, Faulk, SJ and any RB who utterly humiliates a defense in a 1st half of a game. You guys can draw whatever inference you want based on that one game; just don't pretend you're considering all relevant factors. If a RB can have great 1st half success and force a defense to account for him in the 2nd half, he's doing what a starting RB should be doing. It's not like RBs ran all over NY in the playoffs last year; Tampa averaged 3.1 YPC and mustered only 69 rushing yards; Green Bay had a whopping 29 rushing yards; New England accumulated 45 rushing yards and a 2.8 YPC average. That looks like a heck of a lot of "tired" RBs to me. If anything, Barber should be given credit for being the one RB who was able to gash a strong rush defense.

This certainly sheds a different light on the matter.

 

[BigJim®]

Is it a myth? I saw the game and looked at the stats and it was night and day.

Well if it was so obvious to you, there must be an observation from some source somewhere that shares that impression. You know, the sort of observation that is from a non-FBG, non-MBIII basher. A simple "Barber appeared tired" would be grand. I welcome this myth being dispelled.TIA

As I said, I'm not a MB3 basher and in fact have often been on the other side of the coin in support of him when many were on the JJ bandwagon. This is a message board and I'm giving my opinion and you can take it or leave it. I watched the game, saw the change in role, saw his effectiveness and stated my opinion. Let me ask you this...if they wanted to give the full time gig to MB why would they draft a talented RB in the mold of J. Jones in the 1st round? Ordinarily, if a team is content with a position they don't spend a 1st round pick on a player they don't see a big role for. A 1st round pick is a big deal, talent wise and money wise and these decisions aren't made lightly and shouldn't be overlooked.

Why do you have to ask hypothetical questions? The staff is saying how they plan to use Barber, and I believe they've said they plan to use him as the primary back who gets them 100 yards a week, and is spelled by Felix. As for why they would use a 1st rounder on RB, why wouldn't they? They had 2 players at the position heading into the draft. I was not remotely surprised it was a position that wwould be addressed in the 1st round. You think J.Jones would go into a season relying on Alonzo Coleman if Barber went down?

 

[bigmiiiiike]

After LT, AP, Westy, and Addai, ALL of the other first round backs have question marks. Whether it's the talent around them, health, or opportunity, you're not going to find a sure thing (maybe Portis is as close as you get to a guaranteed (absent injury) top 10 back, but his upside is limited).

So do you take SJax at 5 with the crappy offense surrounding him? Sure, he can touch the ball 30 times a game, but where is the Ram offense going? Frank Gore? His team BLOWS and he's an injury risk. Lynch? Great young talent, but the Bills O has a long way to go. Portis? He's safe, but as noted above, limited upside. Barber? He's in the best situation, but probably sees the fewest touches per game of the guys to be considered.

I think it comes down to what you value in FF, and there is no right answer. For me, I think Barber is a very safe pick, meaning he has a very high floor comparatively speaking, and he has massive upside playing on the Cowboys high octane offense. At number 5, it would be tough to decide between SJax and Barber for me, but I may lean towards Barber right now.

 

[Banger]

Is it a myth? I saw the game and looked at the stats and it was night and day.

Well if it was so obvious to you, there must be an observation from some source somewhere that shares that impression. You know, the sort of observation that is from a non-FBG, non-MBIII basher. A simple "Barber appeared tired" would be grand. I welcome this myth being dispelled.TIA

As I said, I'm not a MB3 basher and in fact have often been on the other side of the coin in support of him when many were on the JJ bandwagon. This is a message board and I'm giving my opinion and you can take it or leave it. I watched the game, saw the change in role, saw his effectiveness and stated my opinion. Let me ask you this...if they wanted to give the full time gig to MB why would they draft a talented RB in the mold of J. Jones in the 1st round? Ordinarily, if a team is content with a position they don't spend a 1st round pick on a player they don't see a big role for. A 1st round pick is a big deal, talent wise and money wise and these decisions aren't made lightly and shouldn't be overlooked.

Why do you have to ask hypothetical questions? The staff is saying how they plan to use Barber, and I believe they've said they plan to use him as the primary back who gets them 100 yards a week, and is spelled by Felix. As for why they would use a 1st rounder on RB, why wouldn't they? They had 2 players at the position heading into the draft. I was not remotely surprised it was a position that wwould be addressed in the 1st round. You think J.Jones would go into a season relying on Alonzo Coleman if Barber went down?

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round. Hey, like I said I could be totally wrong on this but I think they got F. Jones and they will look to use him. Barber has been very successful in his role to date, will he be as effective with an increased role, no one knows. To me it all boils down to risk and when I'm grabbing someone in the mid 1st I like to go with knowns and not take chances on role changes or the ability to carry the ball a lot more without proving it 1st. It's just a difference in philosophy and in the 1st couple rounds I'm more risk averse and I start to swing for the fences a little more outside the 2nd/3rd rounds. I'm not saying Barber isn't going to be good this year and I would definitely draft him but just not as a top 7 back. Someone else will and I'm totally fine with that.

 

[switz]

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.

As I mentioned in my prior post, any link to a credible, non-biased source who says "Barber appeared tired" would be greatly appreciated.

This was a really quick search 'Barber playoffs wore'Barber ready to set up shop

The Cowboys started moving toward making Barber the primary runner through the 2007 season. By season's end, the coaches made it official, giving Barber the majority of the carries in the team's playoff game against New York Giants.

Barber showed he could handle the job, rushing 27 times for 129 yards. He did much of that damage in the first half, leading some to believe he wore himself out before the end of the game.

The coaches aren't worried, and Phillips and offensive coordinator Jason Garrett feel first-round draft pick Felix Jones is talented enough to help give Barber some time off the field this season.

Marion - going, going, gone.

Word floating around those close to the Owner and General Manager of the Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones and Head Coach of the Dallas Cowboys Wade Phillips is that Marion will be gone by the draft. A lot of people in Valey Ranch are talking about the Pro Bowl running back and the conversations are not good.

According to Wade Phillips it was Jerry Jones and Jason Garret that wanted Marion to start in the playoff game against the Giants to see if he was a workhorse or just a Very Good change of pace back. Phillips says if he had it his way Marion would have stayed the number two back where he excels. So if the head coach is telling the truth and the playoff game was a test then Marion has failed.

But of course, anyone who does say he looked tired, wore down, or anything like that won't be "credible and unbiased" enough for you, merely because they hint at a criticism of Barber.

 

[BigJim®]

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round.

Of course there is. A 1st round pick would be considered capable of being both a secondary contributor in a normal offense [i.e. a change of pace back] and potentially a safety net if the primary RB goes down with injury. I don't disagree that is probably why they used a 1st round pick on Felix.

 

[JTM]

He could finish top 3, but if I was drafting in the top 3 I would take one of the guys who is a surer bet.

You don't win your league in the first few rounds, but you could definitely loose it.

It's lose. And I hate that saying. But I digress. I'm picking 5. I think LT, AD, Jackson and Westy should be the top 4.

Let me ask this-what makes Barber's situation so different from Addai's with Keith and Rhodes primed to get 8-10 carries per game?

Well, I hate when people correct spelling on a message board when you know damn well what I meant but...I think one big difference in that Felix Jones is much more talented than Keith and Rhodes and the Arkansas connection with Jerry assures Jones a significant role on the team.

I think you're reaching here. I was a Mendenhall supporter, but I'm satisfied so far with Felix and MBIV (Choice). I don't think he will steal too many touches--you still have to block in this league and Felix is a bit undersized and lacks technique currently. Felix COULD be what Reggie Bush is SUPPOSED to be--get the ball to him in space and let him work.The Barbarian will tote the rock 20 times a game and catch a few passes--or more--especially in the first half of the season while the rookies get acclimated. If he averages 4.5 YPC that's almost 1,500 yards and he's a lock to score 12+ TD's. Should be a no-brainer top 5, with Felix stealing more receptions than totes.

 

[BigJim®]

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.

As I mentioned in my prior post, any link to a credible, non-biased source who says "Barber appeared tired" would be greatly appreciated.

This was a really quick search 'Barber playoffs wore'Barber ready to set up shop

The Cowboys started moving toward making Barber the primary runner through the 2007 season. By season's end, the coaches made it official, giving Barber the majority of the carries in the team's playoff game against New York Giants.

Barber showed he could handle the job, rushing 27 times for 129 yards. He did much of that damage in the first half, leading some to believe he wore himself out before the end of the game.

The coaches aren't worried, and Phillips and offensive coordinator Jason Garrett feel first-round draft pick Felix Jones is talented enough to help give Barber some time off the field this season.

Marion - going, going, gone.

Word floating around those close to the Owner and General Manager of the Dallas Cowboys Jerry Jones and Head Coach of the Dallas Cowboys Wade Phillips is that Marion will be gone by the draft. A lot of people in Valey Ranch are talking about the Pro Bowl running back and the conversations are not good.

According to Wade Phillips it was Jerry Jones and Jason Garret that wanted Marion to start in the playoff game against the Giants to see if he was a workhorse or just a Very Good change of pace back. Phillips says if he had it his way Marion would have stayed the number two back where he excels. So if the head coach is telling the truth and the playoff game was a test then Marion has failed.

But of course, anyone who does say he looked tired, wore down, or anything like that won't be "credible and unbiased" enough for you, merely because they hint at a criticism of Barber.

So, your first support is an article titled "Marion Barber ready to set up shop: Cowboys will let bruising back carry the load on offense this season" in which Phillips is quoted saying "His style is certainly very physical, but it seems to be more physical to the guys he's playing against rather than him," Phillips said. "Even with the number of carries he had last year, he really didn't get banged up, as far as having a lot of injuries. And when we gave him the ball more, he produced more as he went along."

Your second report is a message board post "submitted by cowboydude" during Barber's contract negotiations, and chastised by 3 responders?

Gosh, I guess you are right that no reports could possibly be "credible and unbiased" enough for me if I don't agree those prove your point.

Seriously, I can't believe you went with that. Post of the year contestant.

 

[cjack]

Whether you're high on Barber on not, I think one thing people need to be careful of here is putting too much stock in the "Felix Jones is undersized" camp. He's listed at 6' 212lbs. Now, that's not Jerome Bettis, but it's not like he's Warrick Dunn out there. If you want to continue believing he won't bite into Barber's production, that's fine, but don't attribute it to Jones' lack of size. He's 13 pounds less than Barber.

 

[Ridgelake]

The thing that many here don't seem to be considering is that both Felix and MB will frequently be on the field at the same time. In contrast, Julius and MB were almost never on at the same time. Felix will be effectively replacing the 2nd TE (Fasano) or FB, on many occasions, not just spelling MB. What this means is that MB can keep the same load as last year AND Felix can be a significant contributor as well.

In training camp, they practiced a lot of 2 back sets, flanking one or both Felix and MB out, in addition to TO, Witten and Crayton. Both MB and Felix are good pass catchers. Both are good runners. MB is definitely a good pass blocker. Felix appears to be showing the ability to do that as well. What this means is that both can be in the game and force defenses to choose who and what to defend. The incremental threat that Felix places on a defense versus Fasano is substantial.

Instead of stealing MB's touches, the guy I think will see less action is Witten. Felix will likely be a safety valve on many plays, a role that Witten played in the past. Now I'm not saying Witten will go down to 60 catches, but I would be surprised if he matches the numbers from last year unless injuries are a major factor. Felix will see the ball more than Fasano. Those touches are coming from somewhere. My guess is a few will come from Witten moreso than Barber.

 

[easy like sunday morning]

So you're saying that, if that's the reason Barber sucked in second half, we should ignore it, because no other teams this year will have figured out how to copy the Giants means to stop Barber. Nor the fact that when the Dallas running game stalled, the whole offense stalled.

Either Barber was gassed, or coaches figured out how to eliminate him from the game. Neither one is especially positive for his prospects this year. However, just as a note, anyone who watched that game saw that Barber looked tired in the second half.

This doesn't add up for me. If a good defensive coordinator with a good defense decides to eliminate one player he can pretty much do so. Defenses did a pretty good job of taking Moss out of the last few playoff games. Does that mean Moss was gassed the whole time or won't have a good year this year because teams have figured him out?

 

[easy like sunday morning]

The thing that many here don't seem to be considering is that both Felix and MB will frequently be on the field at the same time. In contrast, Julius and MB were almost never on at the same time. Felix will be effectively replacing the 2nd TE (Fasano) or FB, on many occasions, not just spelling MB. What this means is that MB can keep the same load as last year AND Felix can be a significant contributor as well. In training camp, they practiced a lot of 2 back sets, flanking one or both Felix and MB out, in addition to TO, Witten and Crayton. Both MB and Felix are good pass catchers. Both are good runners. MB is definitely a good pass blocker. Felix appears to be showing the ability to do that as well. What this means is that both can be in the game and force defenses to choose who and what to defend. The incremental threat that Felix places on a defense versus Fasano is substantial. Instead of stealing MB's touches, the guy I think will see less action is Witten. Felix will likely be a safety valve on many plays, a role that Witten played in the past. Now I'm not saying Witten will go down to 60 catches, but I would be surprised if he matches the numbers from last year unless injuries are a major factor. Felix will see the ball more than Fasano. Those touches are coming from somewhere. My guess is a few will come from Witten moreso than Barber.

I think there are enough touches to go around. F Jones is going to help Dallas since they don't have a respectable #2 WR. Crayton is terrible so Jones can help take some focus off of TO and Barber.

 

[switz]

There's a difference, to me at least, between drafting a RB and drafting a RB in the 1st round.

Of course there is. A 1st round pick would be considered capable of being both a secondary contributor in a normal offense [i.e. a change of pace back] and potentially a safety net if the primary RB goes down with injury. I don't disagree that is probably why they used a 1st round pick on Felix.

BigJim, you are so enamored with Barber that you just refuse to see past it. I feel bad for you, as you will be sorely disappointed this season.