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Mary Trump, the Daughter of Fred Trump Jr.: “Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World’s Most Dangerous Man” (1 Viewer)

By all means spend your valuable time on this garbage.
The President obstructed the investigation into whether he cheated in the 2016 election. He was impeached for trying to cheat in the 2020 election.

The issue of whether he cheated on his SATs seems possibly important in shedding light on a larger pattern of behavior.

Given that he's the President of the United States, questions about his character are not mere tabloid trash, IMO.

 
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Freddy Trump died in 1981 from an alcohol-induced heart attack when he was 42, and Ms. Trump tells the story in her book about how his family sent him to the hospital alone on the night of his death. No one went with him, Ms. Trump writes.

Donald Trump, she added, went to see a movie.
This is the only remotely surprising thing to me, that Donald Trump once did a relatively normal thing like going to see a movie.  Sure it was while his brother was dying... but still.  

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Cheating on a College Entrance Test

As a high school student in Queens, Ms. Trump writes, Donald Trump paid someone to take a precollegiate test, the SAT, on his behalf. The high score the proxy earned for him, Ms. Trump adds, helped the young Mr. Trump to later gain admittance as an undergraduate to the University of Pennsylvania’s prestigious Wharton business school.

Mr. Trump has often boasted about attending Wharton, which he has referred to as “the best school in the world” and “super genius stuff.”
On the one hand, it would be completely unsurprising to me that Trump paid someone to take his SATs. On the other hand, however, there are parts of this story that don’t really make sense. When he graduated from high school, he didn’t go to Penn/Wharton. He went to Fordham. It was only after spending two years at Fordham that he transferred to Penn, and reportedly it was family connections that helped him get in the door. If his SAT scores were that stellar, you would think he’d have started at Penn to begin with given his family connections and wealth.

 
On the one hand, it would be completely unsurprising to me that Trump paid someone to take his SATs. On the other hand, however, there are parts of this story that don’t really make sense. When he graduated from high school, he didn’t go to Penn/Wharton. He went to Fordham. It was only after spending two years at Fordham that he transferred to Penn, and reportedly it was family connections that helped him get in the door. If his SAT scores were that stellar, you would think he’d have started at Penn to begin with given his family connections and wealth.
Maybe even with the SAT cheating his application wasn't good enough to get into Wharton straight out of high school.  Seems pretty likely he got lousy grades in high school.

 
On the one hand, it would be completely unsurprising to me that Trump paid someone to take his SATs. On the other hand, however, there are parts of this story that don’t really make sense. When he graduated from high school, he didn’t go to Penn/Wharton. He went to Fordham. It was only after spending two years at Fordham that he transferred to Penn, and reportedly it was family connections that helped him get in the door. If his SAT scores were that stellar, you would think he’d have started at Penn to begin with given his family connections and wealth.
Well a few thoughts:

- Don't forget he went to military school, I suppose because his disciplinary record was poor IIRC, but maybe also / or because of grades. I doubt that helped getting into Penn. In fact someone with his dad ($$$, influence) not getting straight into Penn might be deemed odd (though his father was no legacy). I don't know a good (not awesome) SAT plus $ plus a shaky HS record would get him in.

- It was his friend who took the SAT, not some hotshot ringer.

- And this is from an article about the book, not the book itself. I'm guessing Mary Trump fully knows what college he went to, I think the point was he badly wanted to go to Penn and likely his father wanted him there too. The good SAT score helped him get into Penn later apparently. I don't think that's particularly incongruous.

Book's not out yet. I mean, to me SATs are not the biggest deal here though it's getting the talk. I think the more important aspects are how this man became who he is and what it means about who is in the White House for now and the effects that has or could have on our country.

 
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Book's not out yet. I mean, to me SATs are not the biggest deal here though it's getting the talk. I think the more important aspects are how this man became who he is and what it means about who is in the White House for now and the effects that has or could have on our country.
UPenn’s policy is apparently to strip the degree from anyone who is later discovered to have submitted false information as part of his or her application. I know it’s unlikely, but if Trump were to be stripped of his college degree, that would be a huge deal, at least for him. But yes, there are more important issues than this one. 

 
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Ruffrodys05 said:
Wearing the DJT blinders I see. Hope that works out for ya in all seriousness.
I've got the blinders?  What?  You're the guys that are eating that stuff up, no questions asked.

 
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I've read most of the book. The book is a roadmap to what he'll do next.

What I get is that DJT has historically done what he wanted. He is almost never called on his actions, so he gets away with doing what he wants, even if it's illegal, immoral, cheating, stealing, lying. The only time he got called on his sh!t was when he tried to get his father (who was suffering from dementia) to sign a codicil to name his as the sole executor/heir in his well, writing his siblings out of his father's will. His mother caught wind of it, called a family meeting and put a stop to that. The other three siblings were made equals in the inheritance. This is the only time someone caught on to what he was doing and put a stop to it. He just does what he wants to do and his enablers look on as he becomes more and more brazen.

So when he refuses to leave the WH in Jan if he loses, the question will be who is going to make him?

 
I've read most of the book. The book is a roadmap to what he'll do next.

What I get is that DJT has historically done what he wanted. He is almost never called on his actions, so he gets away with doing what he wants, even if it's illegal, immoral, cheating, stealing, lying. The only time he got called on his sh!t was when he tried to get his father (who was suffering from dementia) to sign a codicil to name his as the sole executor/heir in his well, writing his siblings out of his father's will. His mother caught wind of it, called a family meeting and put a stop to that. The other three siblings were made equals in the inheritance. This is the only time someone caught on to what he was doing and put a stop to it. He just does what he wants to do and his enablers look on as he becomes more and more brazen.

So when he refuses to leave the WH in Jan if he loses, the question will be who is going to make him?
Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.

 
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Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.
Not exactly. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/hillary-clinton-concedes-to-trump-we-owe-him-an-open-mind-and-a-chance-to-lead/

 
Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.
Trump himself said he was not sure he would accept the results of this election, with all the voting fraud taking place.

 
Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.
Would it surprise you to know many feel this way about the talking points you offer?

 
Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.
Serious question, do you follow the news?

 
President’s Sister Describes Trump as Liar With ‘No Principles’ in Recordings

In a series of recordings published by The Washington Post, Maryanne Trump Barry can be heard disparaging her brother’s performance as president.

WASHINGTON — Maryanne Trump Barry, President Trump’s older sister and a former federal judge, described him as a liar who has “no principles” in a series of audio recordings made by her niece, Mary L. Trump, in 2018 and 2019.

The recordings were provided to The Washington Post, which published them online Saturday night. In the recording, Ms. Barry can be heard disparaging her brother’s performance as president.

“His gosh darned tweet and the lying, oh, my God,” she says in one of the recordings posted by the newspaper. “I’m talking too freely, but you know. The change of stories. The lack of preparation. The lying.”

...The audio recordings contain observations from Ms. Barry that do not appear in Ms. Trump’s book. According to The Post, Ms. Trump secretly recorded 15 hours of face-to-face conversations with Ms. Barry about the president and his upbringing. The paper said Ms. Trump provided transcripts and audio excerpts.

...

In one conversation published by The Post, Ms. Barry tells Ms. Trump what ended up being one of the most explosive allegations in the book by the president’s niece: that Mr. Trump cheated to get into college by having someone else take the SAT for him.

“He went to Fordham for one year and then he got into University of Pennsylvania because he had somebody take the exams,” Ms. Barry told Ms. Trump. “SATs or whatever. That’s what I believe,” she said.

Ms. Barry, who was appointed to the federal bench by Ronald W. Reagan, says in one conversation that the president helped her get that appointment by asking his lawyer, Roy Cohn, to urge Mr. Reagan to appoint more female judges. Ms. Barry says the president once said to her, “Where would you be without me?”

...

“You say that one more time and I will level you,” Ms. Barry said she told her younger brother at the time. She said she was angry that he was trying to “take credit” for her accomplishments as a judge.

Ms. Barry has refrained from commenting publicly about her brother during his presidency, but the audio recordings make it clear that she does not approve of his actions or his character. In one recording, she calls him “a brat.” In another, she says he “doesn’t read.”

The Post says that in one conversation, the audio of which was not posted on its website, Ms. Barry criticized the Trump administration’s policy of separating migrant children from their parents when they tried to cross the border from Mexico.

“All he wants to do is appeal to his base,” Ms. Barry told Ms. Trump, according to the paper. “He has no principles. None. None. And his base, I mean my God, if you were a religious person, you want to help people. Not do this.”

 
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..At one point Barry said to her niece, “It’s the phoniness of it all. It’s the phoniness and this cruelty. Donald is cruel.”

...

The allegation that the president paid someone to take his SATs, which was one of the most publicized allegations in Mary Trump’s book “Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created The World’s Most Dangerous Man,” stems from a conversation that Barry had with her niece on Nov. 1, 2018.

Barry told how she tried to help her brother get into college. “He was a brat,” Barry said, explaining that “I did his homework for him” and “I drove him around New York City to try to get him into college.”

Then Barry dropped what Mary considered a bombshell: “He went to Fordham for one year [actually two years] and then he got into University of Pennsylvania because he had somebody take the exams.”

“No way!” Mary responded. “He had somebody take his entrance exams?”

“SATs or whatever. . . . That’s what I believe,” Barry said. “I even remember the name.” That person was Joe Shapiro, Barry said.

Donald Trump was friends with a person at Penn named Joe Shapiro, who is deceased. Shapiro’s widow and sister told The Post last month that he never took a test for anybody, including Trump. Mary Trump has said it was a different Joe Shapiro, but that person has not surfaced.

During a Post Live interview last month, Mary Trump was asked whether the source of her information was Barry. “I prefer not to say who it is,” she responded. “It’s somebody who would have absolutely no reason to make it up.”

The inheritance dispute was settled privately in 2001, but Mary Trump has said she was duped into an agreement because the family said the estate was worth $30 million and she later believed the value was closer to $1 billion.

Bastardi said she recorded the conversations with Barry to gain information that would show she had been misled by the family about the estate’s value. “She hoped to prove this, as is often done, by recording words contrary to their sworn statements. She never expected to learn much of what she heard,” Bastardi said.

He said that Mary believed the information was particularly relevant given the federal charges that have been brought this year against prominent individuals who took “unethical steps to get their children into college.”

The president has said he got into what was then called the Wharton School of Finance at Penn — which he called one of “the hardest schools to get in to” — because he is a “super genius.” The Post reported last year, however, that Mary’s father, Fred Jr., was close friends with a Penn admissions official. That official, James Nolan, told The Post that Fred Jr. asked him to interview his brother for admission, which he did. He was granted a place at the school, which Nolan said was “not very difficult” because more than half of applicants at the time were accepted, compared with last year’s 7.4 percent rate.

...

“Donald is out for Donald, period,” Barry said.

Mary questioned Barry about what he had accomplished on his own.

“I don’t know,” Barry said.

“Nothing,” Mary responded.

“Well he has five bankruptcies,” Barry said. (Trump’s companies filed for six corporate bankruptcies but he has never declared personal bankruptcy.)

“Good point. He did accomplish those all by his self,” Mary said.

“Yes, he did. Yes, he did. You can’t trust him,” Barry said.

Maryanne said on another occasion that her brother kept asking about Fox News. One day, Barry said, the president called her and said, “Did you watch Fox News?”

“No,” Barry said she told the president.

“Why not?” he said.

“I don’t watch much television at all,” Barry said she responded.

“What do you do?” the president asked.

“I read,” Barry replied.

“What do you read?” the president said.

“Books,” Barry said.

The president was incredulous. “You don’t watch Fox?”

Around the same time the conversations were being conducted, an internal investigation was underway of whether Barry violated judicial conduct rules regarding her role in working with her siblings in determining their tax liability. The investigation stemmed in part from an action that Mary Trump had taken: She had provided boxes of family tax records to the New York Times, which published a Pulitzer Prize-winning report in 2018 that found the president had engaged in suspect tax schemes that increased the family wealth.

Barry retired shortly after the investigation was launched, which ended the probe.

One of the most emotional conversations between Mary and her aunt occurred when they discussed the 1999 funeral of the family patriarch, Fred Sr., at Marble Collegiate Church on Fifth Avenue in New York City. During that ceremony, Donald spoke more about his own accomplishments than his father’s life, Barry said.

“Donald was the only one who didn’t speak about Dad,” Barry said. She told Mary that “I don’t want any of my siblings to speak at my funeral. And that’s all about Donald and what he did at Dad’s funeral. I don’t know. It was all about him.”

“I remember,” Mary responded.

Mary Trump said she has not talked to her aunt since the book was published. She said in the Post Live interview that she would not be surprised “if she never contacted me, and I think that’s fair. I understand why she would not want to.” 
Wapo

According to Trump's sister, Maryanne Barry, in audio, Donald didn't get into any college at all, she says someone, unnamed, got him into Fordham. "He ended up in Fordham. [Unintelligible] got him in somehow. ... But I know he didn't get into college."

 
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The only thing that would move the needle at this point would be evidence that Trump paid for an abortion.

Trump was prescient with his "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"

 
Won't leave the White House?  For Christ's sakes, last election the left said he wouldn't acknowledge if he lost and it turned out it was Hillary the one who couldn't acknowledge it and concede.  To this very day she still refuses to acknowledge she lost.

It's like you guys make stuff up and then believe it.  Everything you accuse Trump of going to do it was the left that ended up doing it, not him.
Trump refused to say he would accept the election results if he lost in 2016.

His Press Secretary is acknowledging that they might not accept the results in 2020.

 
The only thing that would move the needle at this point would be evidence that Trump paid for an abortion.

Trump was prescient with his "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"
That would not move the needle at all. 

 
Secretly recorded audio of Trump’s sister prompts new call for investigation into his admission to Penn

A professor at the University of Pennsylvania has renewed a request to investigate how President Trump was admitted to the school in 1966, citing what he called “new evidence” on secretly recorded tapes in which Trump’s sister says a friend took his entrance exam.

The professor, Eric W. Orts, is one of six faculty members who asked Penn’s provost earlier this summer to launch an investigation into how Trump transferred into the school. He noted that the president’s niece, Mary Trump, wrote in her book published in July that the president paid someone to take his SATs.

The provost, Wendell E. Pritchett, replied to Orts on July 20 that “we certainly share your concerns about these allegations and the integrity of our admissions process. However, as you suggest in your message, we have determined that this situation occurred too far in the past to make a useful or probative factual inquiry possible. If new evidence surfaces to substantiate the claim in the future, we will continue to be open to investigating it.”

Orts, a professor of legal studies and business ethics at the Wharton School, said he contacted Pritchett after The Washington Post on Saturday published a story that included audio of conversations Mary Trump recorded in 2018 and 2019 with Maryanne Trump Barry, the president’s sister.

In one tape, Barry said she did her brother’s homework for him and that “I drove him around New York City to try to get him into college.” She said Donald Trump “went to Fordham for one year [actually two years] and then he got into University of Pennsylvania because he had somebody take the exams.”

In a conversation with her niece Mary L. Trump, President Trump’s sister, Maryanne Trump Barry, accused the president of having someone take the SATs for him. (Blair Guild/Obtained by the Washington Post)

In their initial letter, the six professors wrote that “failing to investigate an allegation of fraud at such a level broadcasts to prospective students and the world at large that the playing field is not equal, that our degrees can be bought, and that subsequent fame, wealth, and political status will excuse past misconduct.” The school’s rejection of the July request was reported by the Daily Pennsylvanian, a student-run publication.

After The Post published the recording online last weekend, Orts said he emailed Pritchett that the audio constituted the kind of “new evidence” that the provost said was needed to launch an investigation.

In secretly recorded audio, President Trump’s sister says he has ‘no principles’ and ‘you can’t trust him’

Orts said he had not heard back from Pritchett. The provost and his spokesman did not respond to a request for comment. Orts is a registered Democrat but said he is seeking the investigation on moral, not political, grounds. He provided the text of Pritchett’s email to The Post, and he said he wrote the follow-up request individually, not with the group that asked for the initial investigation.

Barry said in one of the tapes that the person who took the test was named Joe Shapiro. Trump knew a person with that name at Penn, but his widow and sister told The Post that he would have never taken a test for Trump, and they said he didn’t know Trump until he attended Penn, so the timing was not right. Mary Trump has said it was a different Shapiro, but that person has not come forward or been identified.

The White House declined to comment for this article. Before the existence of the tapes was known, White House spokeswoman Sarah Matthews said the allegation that someone took the SATs for Trump was “completely false.” Trump, responding on Saturday to The Post’s report about the tapes, said “Who cares?” and did not dispute their authenticity. Barry has not responded to requests for comment.

Starting in 1964, Trump went to Fordham in New York City for his freshman and sophomore years and then transferred in 1966 to Penn’s undergraduate Wharton School of Finance. Trump has said that he was admitted to the “the hardest school to get into, the best school in the world,” calling it “super genius stuff.”

Trump has contrasted his own intellect with that of others and made an issue of releasing transcripts, saying in 2011 that he questioned how President Obama got into Columbia University and Harvard Law School and challenged him to substantiate how he was admitted.

“How does a bad student go to Columbia and then to Harvard?” Trump asked in a 2011 Associated Press interview. “I’m thinking about it, I’m certainly looking into it. Let him show his records.”

Trump has not released his own records. His former attorney, Michael Cohen, testified before Congress last year that Trump “directed me to threaten his high school, his colleges and the College Board to never release his grades or SAT scores.” Cohen cited a letter he wrote to Fordham in May 2015, shortly before Trump launched his presidential campaign, that threatened legal action if the school released any of Trump’s records.

An investigation by The Post last year found that Trump’s claim that Wharton was the hardest school to enter was not substantiated.

The Post reported last year that the Penn admissions official who interviewed Trump was a close friend of Fred Trump Jr., the brother of Donald Trump and father of Mary Trump. That former official, James Nolan, said that it wasn’t difficult to get into Penn at that time, with more than half of applicants granted admission and an even higher percentage of transfer students. By comparison, the admission rate last year to Penn was 7.7 percent.

“It was not very difficult,” Nolan said last year about Trump’s admission in 1966, adding: “I certainly was not struck by any sense that I’m sitting before a genius. Certainly not a super genius.”

In an interview Thursday, Nolan said Penn did require that an applicant submit SAT scores in order to be considered for admission. Typically, Nolan said, a transfer student would have taken the SAT to get into the initial school and those scores would then be submitted to Penn.

A Fordham spokesman said the school required SATs for entrance at the time Trump attended. The spokesman declined to comment when asked whether the school would investigate Trump’s application.

Nolan said that, given the taped conversations with Trump’s sister, there may be enough information for the school to launch an inquiry at Penn. It does not matter if the SATs were taken to gain entrance to Fordham, he said, because the same scores would have been required to be submitted to Penn.

“The allegation was made,” Nolan said. “If indeed he falsified his application — even though it is [54] years ago — his admission should be withdrawn and therefore his degree would be null and void.”

Nolan said the school could try to determine if Trump’s admission records are stored in its archives. Such information is not publicly available because of privacy laws. Even if the records are found, it could be difficult to determine if someone else took the test for Trump.

Nolan, while stressing that he had no knowledge if someone else took Trump’s test, said it would have been easier decades ago for someone to take a test for another person. He said that he sometimes proctored SAT exams at the time, and he recalled that students submitted a paper stating who they were, but doesn’t recall such information being checked as rigorously as it is today.
 
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The whole Penn thing would piss me off to no end. If my school of law ever saw fit to retroactively remove my degree from me because I blew through my loan and spent the ten grand on crack my first year, I'd tell them they have every right but that they suck as people.

There's a statute of limitations on #### like this. It's been over 50 years. It's over.

 
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I'm obviously not a Trump guy but this -- the call for an investigation -- isn't much more than a political stunt by a professor with an agenda.

And even if you could somehow prove that Trump faked the SAT, my response would basically be "So what?" He still graduated from Penn, so all you'd really be proving is that standardized tests are not a perfect indicator of college success.

 

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