whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Bush current ADP is 7.07
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McFadden running with 1st team Offense today (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter whodeywhodey
- Start date
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
McFadden ADP 10.07 fwiw.
So I misspoke on his 9th round upside. Should have been 10th.
So I misspoke on his 9th round upside. Should have been 10th.
Let's be honest: it's BOTH these guys' last chance to show something and they know it.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I don't agree with this in the least -- for either of them. The NFL is a league of second/third/fourth chances.Hell, I fully expect JaFatso Russell to start again in the league somewhere. That's all you need to know.
Rovers
Footballguy
Jeff George has a better chance at starting again in the NFL. That is all I need to know.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
The sample size so far of the preaseason has the OP comparing a 3.8 ypc Bush against a McFadden who hasn't seen the field yet due to his bum hammy. So it is claimed that we don't know about McFadden. Yet when has he not be dinged up in his career? Staying healthy is also a talent. These guys take care of their bodies year round to be ready in September, and McFadden is a soft as Schilens I'm afraid. It's a make or break year for McFadden, and I hope he proves all the doubters wrong, but whatever the next excuse is, I'm emotionally preparing to just move on. Name value of McFadden lost its appeal awhile ago. He has to prove he's not a bust, but at this point, I can't defend him much.
Now let me throw out a little optimism for DMAC. Raiders in preseason have shown a great improvement in screen passes with Hue Jackson coming in from Baltimore as the new OC. We haven't yet seen DMAC, but lesser talented players have been having success. If DMAC can just stay healthy, a few of those could be breakaway runs and he will prove himself to be a real threat. But if he can't keep from carrying tweaked hammies and turf toes around with him, we need to get the ball to lesser talented but healthy players like Michael Bennett. Again, health is a talent IMO.
OL woes:
Again, the sample size of preseason wont tell the whole story. I'll be the first to admit, the Raiders offensive line needs to develop. We have issues at center and the right side of the line. Starting center Samson Satele got hurt in the last game against the Bears, and his backup Chris Morris hasn't shown he's ready to be the starter. Neither Satele nor Morris are the answer as you regularly see the line buckle around LG Robert Gallery as bull rushes regularly topple the middle right of the line. The Raiders did draft Bruce Campbell and Jared Valdheer and both of the rookies should contribute this year.
Now let me throw out a little optimism for DMAC. Raiders in preseason have shown a great improvement in screen passes with Hue Jackson coming in from Baltimore as the new OC. We haven't yet seen DMAC, but lesser talented players have been having success. If DMAC can just stay healthy, a few of those could be breakaway runs and he will prove himself to be a real threat. But if he can't keep from carrying tweaked hammies and turf toes around with him, we need to get the ball to lesser talented but healthy players like Michael Bennett. Again, health is a talent IMO.
OL woes:
Again, the sample size of preseason wont tell the whole story. I'll be the first to admit, the Raiders offensive line needs to develop. We have issues at center and the right side of the line. Starting center Samson Satele got hurt in the last game against the Bears, and his backup Chris Morris hasn't shown he's ready to be the starter. Neither Satele nor Morris are the answer as you regularly see the line buckle around LG Robert Gallery as bull rushes regularly topple the middle right of the line. The Raiders did draft Bruce Campbell and Jared Valdheer and both of the rookies should contribute this year.
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Possum
Footballguy
"please stop arguing with everyone"
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
A little more information. Not trying to start an argument or anything. 
Original article
Zackattack
Footballguy
I don't understand why he isn't working on his leg strength? Bulking his upper body? He needs to break tackles first duh??
SYMPHONY X
Footballguy
I know that Michael Bush dropped in the NFL draft a couple of years ago (the Raiders got him in the 4th round I believe)due to injury concerns, or was it character issues? What can you Raider fans or others tell me about Bush? What other NFL running back does he remind you of?
From what I have gathered, he has a very good combination of size and speed. Is he a Beanie Wells type perhaps? What about his hands? Can he catch the rock at all?
From what I have gathered, he has a very good combination of size and speed. Is he a Beanie Wells type perhaps? What about his hands? Can he catch the rock at all?
Heres a good article from a week agao about M Bush since were talking about him.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/434195-...to-the-playoffs
Michael Bush, The Raiders Secret Weapon To A Winning Season
The most important lesson that I learned in grammar school besides reading was that “Mathematics is the absolute science—numbers don’t lie, one plus one will always equal two."
But as an anti-authoritarian Leo child, I challenged the absoluteness of one plus one always equaling two.
My third grade theory was: if you add one color yellow, plus another color blue, combined they equal one color that is green. So sometimes one plus one equals one.
My theory marveled the majority of the class, except my teacher who defended the absoluteness of her absolute theory in the same manner, I assume, that most Pre- Colombian scholars defended the theory that the world was flat.
No student can ever exceed the knowledge of his/her teacher, or progress society beyond that which he/she was given—unless the student challenges the theories of his/her teacher, Yusuf Hassan. Now, enough of my philosophy and on to football.
In this article, I will use the “absolute science”—statistical mathematics to prove that the Raiders’ theory of starting Darren McFadden is an illogical theory for the Raiders success this year.
First of all, in 2009 McFadden averaged a meager 3.4 yards a rush—Bush, 4.8 yards a carry. At 6’1" 245 lbs., Bush is built to take 250 to 300 carries a season. McFadden, on the other hand, carries less weight and has been plagued by injuries and a fumbling problem since he arrived in Oakland.
In 2008, Michael Bush averaged 4.4 yards a carry; McFadden’s career average is sub-4 yards a carry.
Last year in Week 10, against division rival Kansas City, Bush averaged 8.5 yards a rush for a total of 119 rushing yards that day.
In Week 15 against the Denver Broncos, Bush had 18 attempts for 133 yards, which equates to 7.4 yards a rush. In addition, he rushed for a touchdown that day.
The next week, Week 16 against Cleveland, Bush averaged 5.2 yards a rush.
But the eye-popping stat is: when Bush ran to the left last year, behind Robert Gallery, he averaged 5.8 yards a carry. When he rushed wide left, in the same direction as Gallery, Bush averaged an astonishing 9.2 yards a carry.
Conversely, when Bush rushed to the right, behind the departed Cornell Green, he averaged a measly 3.5 yards a rush, and when he rushed wide right, again towards Green, he 3.3 yards a carry.
In the 2009 season, Bush averaged 6.1 yards a rush in the first quarter, 4.5 in the second quarter, and after a halftime rest, he averages 4.9 yards a carry in the third quarter. These stats indicate one thing: when Bush is fresh, his yards per carry is comparable with the top 10 running-backs in the NFL.
Against the AFC, Bush averaged 5.1 yards a carry, and against the AFC West, he averaged 5.9 yards a rush. In comparison Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 yards a carried against his NFC East rivals, which is far lower than Bush’s 5.9 yards a carry last year against his division rivals in the AFC West.
So the key to my theory is: If the Raiders make the playoffs, Michael Bush will carry the ball at least 250 times, mostly towards the middle and left side.
Among the top five rushers in the league, only one—Chris Johnson—averaged more than 4.5 yards a rush. Hypothetical reasoning says, if Bush averages a modest 4.5, three-tenths lower than his average last season, on 250 carries he will rush for 1,125 years, which will make him a top 10 back in the NFL.
In the past few weeks, it has been reported that Jared Veldheer has been practicing at center. Many columnists, fans, and critics question the reasoning behind this, because of Veldheer’s 6’8" height which would obscure Jason Campbell’s vision.
My theory is: Veldheer’s 6’8" height and power would obscure the vision of would-be tacklers as well. The power and size of Gallery and Veldheer would make for a formidable duo for the brawny 245 lb. back to run behind.
In the early 1990s, I watched many Dallas Cowboys games that showcased Emmitt Smith behind a massive offensive line. The entire stadium knew that Smith would get the ball; however, no team was able to stop it. That is the advantage of a power run game: regardless if the defense knows where the ball is going, if the defense is over-powered, the run goes for a positive.
In conclusion, with newly acquired quarterback Jason Campbell at the helm, the Raiders with a balanced running game—led by Michael Bush, will run over the AFC West and be the surprise team to make the playoffs.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/434195-...to-the-playoffs
Michael Bush, The Raiders Secret Weapon To A Winning Season
The most important lesson that I learned in grammar school besides reading was that “Mathematics is the absolute science—numbers don’t lie, one plus one will always equal two."
But as an anti-authoritarian Leo child, I challenged the absoluteness of one plus one always equaling two.
My third grade theory was: if you add one color yellow, plus another color blue, combined they equal one color that is green. So sometimes one plus one equals one.
My theory marveled the majority of the class, except my teacher who defended the absoluteness of her absolute theory in the same manner, I assume, that most Pre- Colombian scholars defended the theory that the world was flat.
No student can ever exceed the knowledge of his/her teacher, or progress society beyond that which he/she was given—unless the student challenges the theories of his/her teacher, Yusuf Hassan. Now, enough of my philosophy and on to football.
In this article, I will use the “absolute science”—statistical mathematics to prove that the Raiders’ theory of starting Darren McFadden is an illogical theory for the Raiders success this year.
First of all, in 2009 McFadden averaged a meager 3.4 yards a rush—Bush, 4.8 yards a carry. At 6’1" 245 lbs., Bush is built to take 250 to 300 carries a season. McFadden, on the other hand, carries less weight and has been plagued by injuries and a fumbling problem since he arrived in Oakland.
In 2008, Michael Bush averaged 4.4 yards a carry; McFadden’s career average is sub-4 yards a carry.
Last year in Week 10, against division rival Kansas City, Bush averaged 8.5 yards a rush for a total of 119 rushing yards that day.
In Week 15 against the Denver Broncos, Bush had 18 attempts for 133 yards, which equates to 7.4 yards a rush. In addition, he rushed for a touchdown that day.
The next week, Week 16 against Cleveland, Bush averaged 5.2 yards a rush.
But the eye-popping stat is: when Bush ran to the left last year, behind Robert Gallery, he averaged 5.8 yards a carry. When he rushed wide left, in the same direction as Gallery, Bush averaged an astonishing 9.2 yards a carry.
Conversely, when Bush rushed to the right, behind the departed Cornell Green, he averaged a measly 3.5 yards a rush, and when he rushed wide right, again towards Green, he 3.3 yards a carry.
In the 2009 season, Bush averaged 6.1 yards a rush in the first quarter, 4.5 in the second quarter, and after a halftime rest, he averages 4.9 yards a carry in the third quarter. These stats indicate one thing: when Bush is fresh, his yards per carry is comparable with the top 10 running-backs in the NFL.
Against the AFC, Bush averaged 5.1 yards a carry, and against the AFC West, he averaged 5.9 yards a rush. In comparison Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 yards a carried against his NFC East rivals, which is far lower than Bush’s 5.9 yards a carry last year against his division rivals in the AFC West.
So the key to my theory is: If the Raiders make the playoffs, Michael Bush will carry the ball at least 250 times, mostly towards the middle and left side.
Among the top five rushers in the league, only one—Chris Johnson—averaged more than 4.5 yards a rush. Hypothetical reasoning says, if Bush averages a modest 4.5, three-tenths lower than his average last season, on 250 carries he will rush for 1,125 years, which will make him a top 10 back in the NFL.
In the past few weeks, it has been reported that Jared Veldheer has been practicing at center. Many columnists, fans, and critics question the reasoning behind this, because of Veldheer’s 6’8" height which would obscure Jason Campbell’s vision.
My theory is: Veldheer’s 6’8" height and power would obscure the vision of would-be tacklers as well. The power and size of Gallery and Veldheer would make for a formidable duo for the brawny 245 lb. back to run behind.
In the early 1990s, I watched many Dallas Cowboys games that showcased Emmitt Smith behind a massive offensive line. The entire stadium knew that Smith would get the ball; however, no team was able to stop it. That is the advantage of a power run game: regardless if the defense knows where the ball is going, if the defense is over-powered, the run goes for a positive.
In conclusion, with newly acquired quarterback Jason Campbell at the helm, the Raiders with a balanced running game—led by Michael Bush, will run over the AFC West and be the surprise team to make the playoffs.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Bush - good size, hands, breakaway speed; poor lateral quickness - he's a lumberer.
DMC - not as skinny as you might think. Tough, great hands, tremendous initial burst with no sign of his top end speed yet in the pros due to injuries. Also has poor lateral quickness, which has led to too many big shots and injuries so far.
The issue for both these guys is lack of the side ways game. They're both downhill runners. Bush is bigger, DMC is faster.
Both are athletically gifted in the receiving and passing game. The Raiders should give these two at least 3-5 wildcat plays each game IMO.
DMC - not as skinny as you might think. Tough, great hands, tremendous initial burst with no sign of his top end speed yet in the pros due to injuries. Also has poor lateral quickness, which has led to too many big shots and injuries so far.
The issue for both these guys is lack of the side ways game. They're both downhill runners. Bush is bigger, DMC is faster.
Both are athletically gifted in the receiving and passing game. The Raiders should give these two at least 3-5 wildcat plays each game IMO.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Raiders seem to have OL issues at C and RG. Help is being developed in the form of Valdeer and Bruce Campbell. Valdeer seems a lot more ready at this point. That guy looks pretty good so far. Cable is good at developing lineman so how quickly he does with these two will play a role in this story.
McFadden is fast but as said cant cut. Bush cant either but thats not his game. A Speed guy like Mcfadden needs to be able to cut . Part of the issue R Bush hasnt been anywhere near himself from his college days. Chris Johnson has speed BUT he can cut , move sideways and get around guys. McFadden needs open space and a cushion to get away from defenders. Again like most fast guys who dont succed in the NFL . Micheal Bennet etc. Also Agree I think Mcfadden who i believe has a good throwing arm would be perfect in the Wildcat.
Garts
Footballguy
I have yet to see Darren McFadden 'run away' from anyone in his career in the NFL.
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
That was one reporter's perception yesterday.Here is today's news
az_prof
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904 said:
Here is how I see it. I don't care who starts the game and I don't think Cable does either. He will go with the hot hand as he did last year. I expect Bush to be more consistent and to get more first and second down carries. I expect the team to use McFadden more as a receiver and try to get him in space where he is most effective. Staying healthy is in deed the prerequisite for success and so far McFadden hasn't met it. His hammy injury this preseason doesn't help that perception. I think he has a role as a complementary player but I just can't see him being a full time back because he gets these nagging little injuries that keep him off the field. No one can predict a broken leg or an ACL, but when a back is held back by little injuries that is a warning sign that he can't hold up to a ton of carries and the team can't count on him.For an example of what I think is tough, see Ahmad Bradshaw, who played last year on broken (fractured) bones in his feet.
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
See post 77.He's playing.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../SP3S1F3SSC.DTL
Raiders' Hue Jackson is setting an intense mood
Vittorio Tafur, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, August 26, 2010
Michael Bush and Darren McFadden: "I don't know yet. Darren hasn't played yet." McFadden has been out with a tight hamstring. "Obviously he'll get an opportunity in this game and then we'll see where it goes from there."
Raiders' Hue Jackson is setting an intense mood
Vittorio Tafur, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, August 26, 2010
Michael Bush and Darren McFadden: "I don't know yet. Darren hasn't played yet." McFadden has been out with a tight hamstring. "Obviously he'll get an opportunity in this game and then we'll see where it goes from there."
LawFitz
Footballguy
Thanx for the clarification.What you consider tough, I consider dumb. What I consider tough is a willingness to bang on the football field regardless of the injury risk, which DMC does to a detriment. Once you're hurt, you're hurt. Broken feet, tho. Ouch.
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Today's update...
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Jason Campbell is no Joe Montana, but he's light years better than Jamarcus. I think there could be some nice sleeper value if you can figure out who's gonna blossom in OAK, because I don't think there O will suck nearly as much as everyone thinks. WR's or RBs.
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Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I mean I hate to dump it all on one guy, but Jamarcus Russel was about as bad a qb as this league has seen in a while. Especially for a #1 pick. Can you imagine if the took megatron instead and lined him up opposite moss?
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Well I can definetly see why most people think McFaaden isnt a RB. He cant break a tackle. While Bush numbers arent awesome. 6-17 and a TD. Bush Started the game . Had two 6 yard runs and was also caught a pass for a 1st down. Thing you need to remember about bush low YPC is that 2 of his 6 carries were on the goal line . he cant get more then 1 yard on those carries. Skews his numbers. so other wise he was 4-16 and 4 ypc. Mcfadden was 4 for MINUS 2. and he caught 2 passes for 16 yards.
Small sample and its unfair to judge anyone on 1/2 a game but if you watched you see Mcfadden get hit and go down and cant break a tackle. he coulnt even get back to the line of scrimage. The starters for San Fran are coming out so I dont care if Bush or McFadden run for 100 yards now. Against the Starting Defense of the 49ers Bush was 6-17 (3 YPC) and a TD and McFadden was 4 for -2 .
McFadden is a good reciever . thats what he is , not a NFL running back.
Small sample and its unfair to judge anyone on 1/2 a game but if you watched you see Mcfadden get hit and go down and cant break a tackle. he coulnt even get back to the line of scrimage. The starters for San Fran are coming out so I dont care if Bush or McFadden run for 100 yards now. Against the Starting Defense of the 49ers Bush was 6-17 (3 YPC) and a TD and McFadden was 4 for -2 .
McFadden is a good reciever . thats what he is , not a NFL running back.
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az_prof
Footballguy
After three preseason games I am ready to wrap this one up: Bush is the starting back at least to start the season. We'll see where it goes from there.
Final numbers
Bush 7-23 for a 3.3 Yards a carry & 2 for 15 recieving
McFadden 7-9 for a 1.01 Yards a carry and 2 for 16 Recieving.
McFadden was outplayed by Bennet and Catthwight. I agree its a Wrap.
McFadden thuds, Bush scores TD
After a week of looking good in practice, Darren McFadden was ineffective against the 49ers on Saturday evening, taking the ball seven times for just nine yards. Michael Bush, meanwhile, went seven times for 23 yards.
Our View: Bush also added a touchdown. Although it's hard to believe an Al Davis owned team will ever give up on a talent like McFadden, look for Bush to be Oakland's feature back this season.
Bush 7-23 for a 3.3 Yards a carry & 2 for 15 recieving
McFadden 7-9 for a 1.01 Yards a carry and 2 for 16 Recieving.
McFadden was outplayed by Bennet and Catthwight. I agree its a Wrap.
McFadden thuds, Bush scores TD
After a week of looking good in practice, Darren McFadden was ineffective against the 49ers on Saturday evening, taking the ball seven times for just nine yards. Michael Bush, meanwhile, went seven times for 23 yards.
Our View: Bush also added a touchdown. Although it's hard to believe an Al Davis owned team will ever give up on a talent like McFadden, look for Bush to be Oakland's feature back this season.
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I wonder if he's equally stunned at how bad a runner he is out of a conventional set. He's garbage as a RB and his best bet to salvage a decent NFL career is as a pure 3rd down back. Michael Bush is the guy to own here and it's not even close IMO. I'd be absolutely shocked if this ended up a 50-50 split by season's end.
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You are hilarious, Man. Do you own Bush on all your fantasy teams or something?
Seriously. I watched this game (Niners fan). And Bush did not look good - the only Raider RB that did was the fullback. Also, FYI the hits behind the LOS on McFadden came from Willis, who rushed through the line unblocked. You are kidding yourself if you think Bush is running away with this thing. If McFadden stays healthy, Bush in the 6th round is a reach. Book it.
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I think I said I have Bush, Not making any secret. I decided that Bush in round 8 where I got him was alot better then McFadden in round say 12.
Edit: Well I just read that Bush broke his thumb so by default McFadden may be the starter.
Michael Bush will see a hand specialist on Sunday after breaking his thumb in Saturday's game against the 49ers.
Coach Tom Cable refused to name a timetable on Bush's return until after he sees the specialist. Bush had to get a teammate to help tie his shoes after the game, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he ends up missing regular season action with the injury. Darren McFadden may now have an opening for the Week 1 starting job.
Aug. 29 - 1:37 a.m. ET
Edit: Well I just read that Bush broke his thumb so by default McFadden may be the starter.
Michael Bush will see a hand specialist on Sunday after breaking his thumb in Saturday's game against the 49ers.
Coach Tom Cable refused to name a timetable on Bush's return until after he sees the specialist. Bush had to get a teammate to help tie his shoes after the game, so it wouldn't be a surprise if he ends up missing regular season action with the injury. Darren McFadden may now have an opening for the Week 1 starting job.
Aug. 29 - 1:37 a.m. ET
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