Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (1 Viewer)

[Topes]

Dow is up and the news has shifted focus to Libya. Are we out of the woods here then?

Heard on CNN that up to 200 barrels of radioactive material may have been swept into the ocean, so that's nice.

Is that all? Radioactive material has a pretty strict definition. I generated tons of it in the Navy, but the overwhelming majority of it I would have felt safe carying around in my pockets for days or even indefinately.Not trying to minimize this, because a barrel washing up in a wierd place and then opened/played with by some kids could be horribly bad for those kids, but the vast majority of that stuff likely poses little risk. All these barrels should be pretty clearly labeled with the universal sign for radiation, so one would assume and hope that most people finding them would call authorities and public danger would be fairly minimal.

Well, that's presuming they remain intact.What if sharks ate them, and grew laser beams?

 

[Sudsy]

I just watched a segment on FOX where they said that radiation has reached California, but it is a billion times lower than what we should be concerned about. The audio was accompanied by video of people in hazmat suits, implying it is a big deal.

So if I say it is nothing, I am making baseless assumptions? Right.

Well, to be fair, if it was a billion times higher, I would be worried.

Is it ok to be outside when the radiation levels are the equivalent of a chest x-ray? (Not suggesting the radiation levels are that high, just asking the question).

The answer is that it won't harm do to get a dose many times less than an x-ray over the period of a day. If that were the radiation levels, I wouldn't worry about being outside. The radiation levels hitting California right now are many times less than I get flying to Mexico City from Spokane, a trip I make about 6 times a year, and no, I don't worry about it.Is it okay for the government to advise you to stay inside when it is that high?

Comparions of radition from the nuclear accident to:Bananas: X

Airplanes (update):VIII

Smoking: XI

Well let's give you something else to tally: you'll get a thousand times more radiation if you live in Denver. How's that?

And we are potentially in the kill zone of the Yellowstone super volcano. On the bright side we are probably too high up to get hit by tsunamies.

 

[Sudsy]

Dow is up and the news has shifted focus to Libya. Are we out of the woods here then?

Heard on CNN that up to 200 barrels of radioactive material may have been swept into the ocean, so that's nice.

The Godzilla scenario, no?

 

[Fennis]

They are cumulative in the sense that yes you can add it up that way. But the effects are not necessarily cumulative. Using your example, cumulative low doses over time do not increase your risk substantially. However, 38msv/hr for 20 hours is not as bad as 760msv/hr for one hour and then 0 msv for 19 hours.

You might find this wiki link helpful.

Thanks. I found this which is giving readings and trying to make sense of it. http://eq.wide.ad.jp/index_en.html

To expand on that a little, there's a bunch of beaches in Brazil where the natural background radiation levels are high enough to qualify as an official radiation area if they were found in a nuclear plant. People on airplanes are regularly exposed to radiation levels high enough to qualify.

Comparions of radition from the nuclear accident to:Bananas: X

Airplanes: VIII

Smoking: XII

living in Denver (updated): I

going to the beach (updated):I

 

[GreatLakesMike]

I just watched a segment on FOX where they said that radiation has reached California, but it is a billion times lower than what we should be concerned about. The audio was accompanied by video of people in hazmat suits, implying it is a big deal.

So if I say it is nothing, I am making baseless assumptions? Right.

Well, to be fair, if it was a billion times higher, I would be worried.

Is it ok to be outside when the radiation levels are the equivalent of a chest x-ray? (Not suggesting the radiation levels are that high, just asking the question).

The answer is that it won't harm do to get a dose many times less than an x-ray over the period of a day. If that were the radiation levels, I wouldn't worry about being outside. The radiation levels hitting California right now are many times less than I get flying to Mexico City from Spokane, a trip I make about 6 times a year, and no, I don't worry about it.Is it okay for the government to advise you to stay inside when it is that high?

Comparions of radition from the nuclear accident to:Bananas: X

Airplanes (update):VIII

Smoking: XI

Well let's give you something else to tally: you'll get a thousand times more radiation if you live in Denver. How's that?

And we are potentially in the kill zone of the Yellowstone super volcano. On the bright side we are probably too high up to get hit by tsunamies.

Potentially?

 

[Rohn Jambo]

And we are potentially in the kill zone of the Yellowstone super volcano. On the bright side we are probably too high up to get hit by tsunamies.

Potentially?

I have seen this
. An eruption at Yellowstone will wipe out the US.

 

[[icon]]

Comparions of radition from the nuclear accident to:

Bananas: X

Airplanes (update):VIII

Smoking: XI

LOVE THIS SHTICK

 

[David Dodds]

Some good news finally:

Condition at Japan's troubled nuclear power plant improving

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-03/19/c_13788030.htm

 

[David Dodds]

Although I do believe the Japanese government is finally starting to tell the truth regarding this situation, why have no thermal heat maps above the plant been presented? This would be an extremely easy way to show that this situation is stabilizing/improving.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Comparions of radition from the nuclear accident to:

Bananas: X

Airplanes (update):VIII

Smoking: XI

LOVE THIS SHTICK

I can't decide on the better band name.Comparions of Radition

or

The Nuclear Accident

 

[Otis]

I'm glad people are calming down a bit. That's good.

 

[David Dodds]

Good presentation on the risks http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/plecture/bmonreal11/pdf/BMonreal11_PublicLecture_KITP.pdf

 

[David Dodds]

I'm glad people are calming down a bit. That's good.

I know for me personally, I felt like the reporting initially coming out of Japan was way understating things.We see a huge explosion and they say the pump failed. They move the evacuation zone yet say no issues. They send most everyone home while multiple explosions and the highest readings are happening. Meanwhile the US states people should evacuate 50 miles away and that they believe this incident is more serious. It does seem like Japan is trying to be way more honest and forthcoming now. Maybe that's because this is slowly getting more under control. I do think the understating things though will make it hard for the people of Japan to trust what their government is saying to them. When the government says everyone can come back to within 300 feet of this plant's gates, would you believe them? I still would like to see thermal heat maps (that we know exist) to be published. If it's getting better, these images will tell the story way better than words will at this point.

 

[Cassius]

I'm glad people are calming down a bit. That's good.

lol

 

[David Dodds]

so much for calming down...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-20-japan-earthquake_N.htm

Officials: Pressure rises again in Japan reactor  Japan's nuclear safety agency said pressure is again rising in one of reactors at the country's tsunami-damaged nuclear complex — a setback that means operators will have to vent more radioactive gas into the environment.  Safety agency official Hidehiko Nishiyama said Sunday that efforts to put water in the Unit 3 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex might not have been working.

 

[David Dodds]

Wall Street Journal describing the setbacks here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704021504576211733745754772.html

 

[3C's]

so much for calming down...http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-03-20-japan-earthquake_N.htmOfficials: Pressure rises again in Japan reactor  Japan's nuclear safety agency said pressure is again rising in one of reactors at the country's tsunami-damaged nuclear complex — a setback that means operators will have to vent more radioactive gas into the environment.  Safety agency official Hidehiko Nishiyama said Sunday that efforts to put water in the Unit 3 reactor at the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex might not have been working.

calm downThe Tokyo Electric Power Company has decided against releasing gases from the overheating No. 3 reactor in an attempt to reduce pressure inside the containment vessel.TEPCO officials in Fukushima said on Sunday afternoon that pressure within the reactor containment vessel has begun to stabilize, and gases don't need to be released for the time being.

 

[Fennis]

per cnn: Japan has restricted sales of vegetables from the prefecture surrounding the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant following a ban on the sale of raw milk from the same region, the country's Health Ministry announced late Sunday.

 

[Cassius]

Really have to go looking for Japan news on the major news websites now. I can only trust the media and assume that there is no longer any significant danger.

 

[Otis]

Really have to go looking for Japan news on the major news websites now. I can only trust the media and assume that there is no longer any significant danger.

I'm not sure there ever was.

 

[3C's]

Really have to go looking for Japan news on the major news websites now. I can only trust the media and assume that there is no longer any significant danger.

I'm not sure there ever was.

there was and still is (though news of getting power to some of the reactors is huge)...but it was never to the point of "there's huge leaks, radiation clouds, we're all gonna die"

 

[3C's]

Japan's defense minister says the surface temperatures of all 6 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are lower than 100 degrees Celsius.

In a news conference on Sunday, Toshimi Kitazawa quoted an expert from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency as saying the data are very valuable because temperatures below 100 degrees confirm the existence of water in spent fuel rod storage pools.

Kitazawa said Self-Defense Forces officials measured the temperatures from a helicopter using an infrared device on Sunday for a second consecutive day. He said the surface temperature of the Number One reactor was 58 degrees Celsius, that of Number 2 stood at 35 degrees, Number 3 at 62 degrees, Number 4 at 42 degrees, Number 5 at 24 degrees, and Number 6 at 25 degrees.

He said the temperatures of Number 1, Number 3 and Number 4 reactors are believed to be the surface temperatures of the spent fuel rod storage pools. The buildings housing the containers of these three reactors were damaged.

Kitazawa said he was relieved to see the temperatures stay below 100 degrees for 2 days in a row. He said the public will also feel relieved.

 

[3C's]

Don't know if this was ever posted. Kind of long.

http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/fukushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation

 

[rascal]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

 

[culdeus]

Japan's defense minister says the surface temperatures of all 6 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are lower than 100 degrees Celsius.In a news conference on Sunday, Toshimi Kitazawa quoted an expert from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency as saying the data are very valuable because temperatures below 100 degrees confirm the existence of water in spent fuel rod storage pools.Kitazawa said Self-Defense Forces officials measured the temperatures from a helicopter using an infrared device on Sunday for a second consecutive day. He said the surface temperature of the Number One reactor was 58 degrees Celsius, that of Number 2 stood at 35 degrees, Number 3 at 62 degrees, Number 4 at 42 degrees, Number 5 at 24 degrees, and Number 6 at 25 degrees.He said the temperatures of Number 1, Number 3 and Number 4 reactors are believed to be the surface temperatures of the spent fuel rod storage pools. The buildings housing the containers of these three reactors were damaged.Kitazawa said he was relieved to see the temperatures stay below 100 degrees for 2 days in a row. He said the public will also feel relieved.

crisis over?

 

[3C's]

Japan's defense minister says the surface temperatures of all 6 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are lower than 100 degrees Celsius.In a news conference on Sunday, Toshimi Kitazawa quoted an expert from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency as saying the data are very valuable because temperatures below 100 degrees confirm the existence of water in spent fuel rod storage pools.Kitazawa said Self-Defense Forces officials measured the temperatures from a helicopter using an infrared device on Sunday for a second consecutive day. He said the surface temperature of the Number One reactor was 58 degrees Celsius, that of Number 2 stood at 35 degrees, Number 3 at 62 degrees, Number 4 at 42 degrees, Number 5 at 24 degrees, and Number 6 at 25 degrees.He said the temperatures of Number 1, Number 3 and Number 4 reactors are believed to be the surface temperatures of the spent fuel rod storage pools. The buildings housing the containers of these three reactors were damaged.Kitazawa said he was relieved to see the temperatures stay below 100 degrees for 2 days in a row. He said the public will also feel relieved.

crisis over?

I feel relieved.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

Japan's defense minister says the surface temperatures of all 6 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are lower than 100 degrees Celsius.In a news conference on Sunday, Toshimi Kitazawa quoted an expert from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency as saying the data are very valuable because temperatures below 100 degrees confirm the existence of water in spent fuel rod storage pools.Kitazawa said Self-Defense Forces officials measured the temperatures from a helicopter using an infrared device on Sunday for a second consecutive day. He said the surface temperature of the Number One reactor was 58 degrees Celsius, that of Number 2 stood at 35 degrees, Number 3 at 62 degrees, Number 4 at 42 degrees, Number 5 at 24 degrees, and Number 6 at 25 degrees.He said the temperatures of Number 1, Number 3 and Number 4 reactors are believed to be the surface temperatures of the spent fuel rod storage pools. The buildings housing the containers of these three reactors were damaged.Kitazawa said he was relieved to see the temperatures stay below 100 degrees for 2 days in a row. He said the public will also feel relieved.

crisis over?

It's a trap!!

 

[BeaverCleaver]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Pathetic

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Funny stuff, Gilbert.

 

[culdeus]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Funny stuff, Gilbert.

Tongue in cheek, but it's true... This is such a gigantic mess, it's going to require many lives lost to even begin to right it. It's a sad fact, but a fact indeed. The economic damage is going to exceed a trillion dollars... Not that every dollar isn't a nice gesture, but Japan's got to print its way out of this one and it'll take generations to repay. Not that someone going to Japan to lend volunteer work wouldn't be an incredibly generous gesture, but this is really, really bad despite the "its all over" sentiment and there are many who must and will die pretty horribly, and as always it's not going to be anyone responsible for the decisions but brave, noble souls from the bottom rungs. They are the ones who will help.

trillions? As in 2.000000001 trillion dollars? Or is that Yuan?

 

[bueno]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Funny stuff, Gilbert.

Tongue in cheek, but it's true... This is such a gigantic mess, it's going to require many lives lost to even begin to right it. It's a sad fact, but a fact indeed. The economic damage is going to exceed a trillion dollars... Not that every dollar isn't a nice gesture, but Japan's got to print its way out of this one and it'll take generations to repay. Not that someone going to Japan to lend volunteer work wouldn't be an incredibly generous gesture, but this is really, really bad despite the "its all over" sentiment and there are many who must and will die pretty horribly, and as always it's not going to be anyone responsible for the decisions but brave, noble souls from the bottom rungs. They are the ones who will help.

trillions? As in 2.000000001 trillion dollars? Or is that Yuan?

Over my head...BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

yes.

 

[3C's]

It might not be a trillion but it's definitely going to be in the 100's of billions. Estimate I read was $180 billion.

 

[3C's]

Does anybody know of a way to go and help or is monetary the best way?

Depends. How do you feel about suicide missions in reactors?

Funny stuff, Gilbert.

Tongue in cheek, but it's true... This is such a gigantic mess, it's going to require many lives lost to even begin to right it. It's a sad fact, but a fact indeed. The economic damage is going to exceed a trillion dollars... Not that every dollar isn't a nice gesture, but Japan's got to print its way out of this one and it'll take generations to repay. Not that someone going to Japan to lend volunteer work wouldn't be an incredibly generous gesture, but this is really, really bad despite the "its all over" sentiment and there are many who must and will die pretty horribly, and as always it's not going to be anyone responsible for the decisions but brave, noble souls from the bottom rungs. They are the ones who will help.

trillions? As in 2.000000001 trillion dollars? Or is that Yuan?

Over my head...BTW, thought I've had often during this is how we tend to glorify the selfless acts of these plant workers, when in reality the deaths many will experience will be agonizing and violent. I've heard some of the reports of how organs will be ravaged by those exposed to the core... It's not pretty. I suspect that more people will die of long-term Cancers just from being unfortunate enough to live nearby and be exposed to contamination. The sad fact is that an untold number of people will sacrifice their lives to rebuild, from those cleaning up the plant to those who simply remain in Fukashima to rebuild the economy. Sometimes something is so bad there's really no sugar coating it. This equates to a lot of people dying over a long period of time. Does anyone doubt that?

yes.

good god, read something besides godlikeproductions.

 

[timschochet]

These workers we've been hearing about, who risked their lives: have any of them actually gotten sick yet? After so much info about these guys last week, I can't find out what happened to them...

 

[3C's]

These workers we've been hearing about, who risked their lives: have any of them actually gotten sick yet? After so much info about these guys last week, I can't find out what happened to them...

I think there's been 3 workers that have been treated for radiation sickness.

 

[Chaos Commish]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

 

[bueno]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

My suspicion is that if I looked at actuarial tables, assuming ones existed for these variables, my life statistically might be shortened by about two months,

 

[bueno]

"I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed."

Interesting and reassuring for those not in the area. Article is clear to state that the cleanup workers are in immediate danger, which was the point that led to this discussion. Also, there are likely to be deaths in the immediate surrounding area (probably more thyroid cancer, though perhaps not as many as Chernobyl.) Of course, I somewhat question Forbes' motives, since they primarily want market stability and I very much question (as is acknowledged in the article) the accuracy of reporting related to Chernobyl deaths. Of course, there is a much greater threat posed in the near-term by hygiene, disease, lack of shelter and other factors. It's still unclear what the life expectancy will be for the cleanup workers and those absorbing radioactive iodine and other heavy radioactive particles. I guess in the end, I'd put it to you... If you lived with 30 miles of Fukashima, would you feel good about remaining there?

My suspicion is that if I looked at actuarial tables, assuming ones existed for these variables, my life statistically might be shortened by about two months,

How much exposure does that equate to - and how much is that versus exposure both at Fukashima and say twenty miles away? Would be excellent if you could provide that both in that last 10 days and in the next 6 months - just as a reference's for what the population can expect?

I have published data on radiation exposure in this thread. Dig it out, compare it to the exposure the workers have received.

 

[Blue-Kun]

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

You even have webcomics providing more accurate information than most major media sites. Yay internet.

And if you actually care about specific information: http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/

In other news, major media outlets back to Libya now that they can't scaremonger about Japan for the 400th day in a row. Shocking.

 

[renesauz]

It was CNN that were saying the 50 workers were as good as lost, describing distended organs from the levels of gamma radiation exposure... If that's not the case, then paint me Shuked... I figured these guys have gotten enough exposure to kill them all within 5 years. If that's not the case, then it's certainly not the impression I got. And I've also seen reports of radioactive iodine in the water table and food supply, which I imagine would at the least lead to some thyroid and other cancers... I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed.

Wow....what a kook!Read the thread and quit the fear-mongering. Yuur posts aren't even making any sense. Radioiodine has a half life of 8 days, and isn't even formed when the reactors are shutdown...so no...it's not a concern in the food chain that will kill anyone.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

It was CNN that were saying the 50 workers were as good as lost, describing distended organs from the levels of gamma radiation exposure... If that's not the case, then paint me Shuked... I figured these guys have gotten enough exposure to kill them all within 5 years. If that's not the case, then it's certainly not the impression I got. And I've also seen reports of radioactive iodine in the water table and food supply, which I imagine would at the least lead to some thyroid and other cancers... I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed.

Wow....what a kook!Read the thread and quit the fear-mongering. Yuur posts aren't even making any sense. Radioiodine has a half life of 8 days, and isn't even formed when the reactors are shutdown...so no...it's not a concern in the food chain that will kill anyone.

The radiation is potentially causing bigger storms than we've ever seen. Don't call it fear mongering when he's just asking questions nobody else has the guts to ask and trying to save a few lives.

 

[renesauz]

It was CNN that were saying the 50 workers were as good as lost, describing distended organs from the levels of gamma radiation exposure... If that's not the case, then paint me Shuked... I figured these guys have gotten enough exposure to kill them all within 5 years. If that's not the case, then it's certainly not the impression I got. And I've also seen reports of radioactive iodine in the water table and food supply, which I imagine would at the least lead to some thyroid and other cancers... I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed.

Wow....what a kook!Read the thread and quit the fear-mongering. Yuur posts aren't even making any sense. Radioiodine has a half life of 8 days, and isn't even formed when the reactors are shutdown...so no...it's not a concern in the food chain that will kill anyone.

The radiation is potentially causing bigger storms than we've ever seen. Don't call it fear mongering when he's just asking questions nobody else has the guts to ask and trying to save a few lives.

Read his last 5 or 6 posts. Then realize that anyone who's paid any attention in this thread whatsoever would know that radioiodine was NOT a danger to the food supply.

 

[3C's]

It might not be a trillion but it's definitely going to be in the 100's of billions. Estimate I read was $180 billion.

World Bank estimate is $235 billion.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Read his last 5 or 6 posts. Then realize that anyone who's paid any attention in this thread whatsoever would know that radioiodine was NOT a danger to the food supply.

Everyone reading along in this thread realizes that you so narrowly define all of your responses that the great knowledge you have to share is lost. By constantly trivializing any and all news you are losing credibility.Reports out of Japan this morning is about food being contaminated. Your reply should not be that there is no danger of this happening, but that the levels so far are still very safe - even if way above the official limits. And that you think the levels will remain safe because of ?????. Instead you keep personally attacking anyone that has expressed any kind of fear. Sure Mr Ham goes over the top, but trying to one up him in the opposite direction is not really that useful now is it. You would come off a lot better if you stop being pissed that people that know less than you are expressing their fears.

 

[3C's]

It was CNN that were saying the 50 workers were as good as lost, describing distended organs from the levels of gamma radiation exposure... If that's not the case, then paint me Shuked... I figured these guys have gotten enough exposure to kill them all within 5 years. If that's not the case, then it's certainly not the impression I got. And I've also seen reports of radioactive iodine in the water table and food supply, which I imagine would at the least lead to some thyroid and other cancers... I'm clearly no expert, but would like to see this disputed.

Wow....what a kook!Read the thread and quit the fear-mongering. Yuur posts aren't even making any sense. Radioiodine has a half life of 8 days, and isn't even formed when the reactors are shutdown...so no...it's not a concern in the food chain that will kill anyone.

The radiation is potentially causing bigger storms than we've ever seen. Don't call it fear mongering when he's just asking questions nobody else has the guts to ask and trying to save a few lives.

Read his last 5 or 6 posts. Then realize that anyone who's paid any attention in this thread whatsoever would know that radioiodine was NOT a danger to the food supply.

:whoosh:

 

[David Dodds]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive cesium 24.8 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 126.7 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

 

[bueno]

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive cesium 24.8 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

NEWS ADVISORY: Radioactive iodine 126.7 times higher detected in seawater near nuke plant

Cesium137 has a half life of about 30 years, Cesium 134 has a half life of 2.1 years. Both are beta emitters. Iodine has a half life of about 8 days. That means even if not diluted by currents, etc., that in 8 days, iodine would be 63.35 times higher than average, in 16 days 31.675 times average, in 24 days, 15.8375 times average, in 32 days 7.91875 times average, in 40 days 3.959 times average, in 48 days 1.879 times average, in 54 days - less than two months, it is at background levels. The risk of iodine is short term introduction into the food chain. Maybe I wouldn't eat crops currently growing around the plant, but plow them under and replant spinach and but the time it is ready for harvest, I wouldn't have concerns about eating it. Milk is one place where iodine could be concentrated enough to cause problems when ingested, but still, after less than a month, I wouldn't be concerned at all.

Cesium 137, I'll have to look at the chemistry of that element to see how it could get into the food chain. Cesium does decay rapidly to stable (non-radioactive) barium, which is harmless. Here is the decay chain:

55Cs ---> 11 beta particle + 56 Ba (metastable) ---> 56 Ba (stable) + 662KeV Gamma Particle

t 1/2 55Cs ---> 56Ba (meta) = 30 years

t 1/2 56Ba (meta) ---> 56Ba (stable = 2.6 min.)



Cesium 137 is of concern because of that high energy gamma particle that barium emits. However, the long half-life means it has a low activity, and the relatively slow decay rate and its dilute concentrations make it substantially less dangerous than naturally occurring radon in places like northern New Hampshire.

What will drive whether the land around the plant will be used again or not will be fear and politics, not science.

ETA: Curiously enough,Cesium-137 is also used in brachytherapy to treat various types of cancer.

ETA to clean up decay equations.

 

[bueno]

Found this for your edification.

Radiological Risk Coefficients

This table provides selected risk coefficients for inhalation and ingestion. Recommended default absorption types were used for inhalation, and dietary values were used for ingestion. The cesium-137 values include the contribution from the decay product barium-137m. Risks are for lifetime cancer mortality per unit intake (pCi), averaged over all ages and both genders (10-12 is a trillionth). Other values, including for morbidity, are also available.

Lifetime Cancer Mortality Risk Isotope Inhalation(pCi-1) Ingestion(pCi-1)

Cesium-134 1.1 × 10-11 3.5 × 10-11

Cesium-135 1.3 × 10-12 4.0 × 10-12

Cesium-137 8.1 × 10-12 2.5 × 10-11

Damn low risk coefficients here. While the governemnt does consider it a health risk, when you look at the actual risk coefficients, they appear pretty negligible.

Cesium is generally one of the less mobile radioactive metals in the environment. It preferentially adheres quite well to soil, and the concentration associated with sandy soil particles is estimated to be 280 times higher than in interstitial water (water in the pore space between soil particles); concentration ratios are much higher (about 2,000 to more than 4,000) in clay and loam soils. Thus, cesium is generally not a major contaminant in groundwater at DOE sites or other locations.

What Happens to It in the Body? Cesium can be taken into the body by eating food, drinking water, or breathing air. After being taken in, cesium behaves in a manner similar to potassium and distributes uniformly throughout the body. Gastrointestinal absorption from food or water is the principal source of internally deposited cesium in the general population. Essentially all cesium that is ingested is absorbed into the bloodstream through the intestines. Cesium tends to concentrate in muscles because of their relatively

large mass. Like potassium, cesium is excreted from the body fairly quickly. In an adult, 10% is excreted with a biological half-life of 2 days, and the rest leaves the body with a biological half-life of 110 days. Clearance from the body is somewhat quicker for children and adolescents. This means that if someone is exposed to radioactive cesium and the source of exposure is removed, much of the cesium will readily clear the body along the normal pathways for potassium excretion within several months.

 

[Sinn Fein]

blah, blah, blah.

Really the only question that needs answering, in laymen's terms, would you eat the food, or drink the water from the areas surrounding the plant. How far away should the food source be before you would feel comfortable with the food as your main diet. DO you expect a "dead" zone in the vicinity of the plant - how big a radius - < mile, or more?

I don't care about the periodic table or half-lifes I care about the cumulative effect on the radiation that has been exposed to the environment as an airborne contaminant and/or in the food chain, or water table.

I don't think anyone is growing 3 heads here, but what is the increased risk to the health of folks living within a certain radius of the plant. Are the radiation effects cumulative - meaning they are fine for a day/week/month, but at a certain level they become problematic over an extended period of time - week/month/year.

I assume that at this point, the Japanese experts believe that the worst is behind them - otherwise I have to think they would be taking steps to bury the plant - given that the seawater has already rendered several of the reactors useless.

 

[culdeus]

Are the concrete trucks on site a new development? There are several in the ariel shots I haven't seen previously.