Mi. Clayton's soph slump... (1 Viewer)

[TheFanatic]

A leaguemate of mine sent me this little blurb from Jeremy Green (I believe he's Dennis Green's son and sports reporter).

Here is the blurb, sorry no link:

rj (miami): Did the Bucs sign David Boston only to push Michael Clayton? The WR position is getting a little crowded. Galloway, Clayton, Hilliard, Boston, and rookie Stovall. I don't think they can keep both Hilliard and Boston.

Jeremy Green: (4:05 PM ET ) If Boston comes in and regains his old form, they could eventually try to move Clayton. I talked with a scout on their staff that has told me the coaching staff is tiring of his partying, being late for meetings, not paying attention in meetings and basic aloof attitude.

This is the first I have heard that Clayton was such a flake. Are there any other sources that can substantiate this?

 

[Hobbes]

I've never heard this...I have some friends that work for the Bucs. I'll hit them up with this and see what they come back with.

 

[TheFanatic]

I've never heard this...I have some friends that work for the Bucs. I'll hit them up with this and see what they come back with.

That would be fantastic. Anyone else hear anything like this? Tampa homers give a shout out!

 

[Punchie]

this is the first report to surface along those lines. Gruden was mad at Clayton for not getting his surgery over with sooner after his rookie year and then not atatcking re-hab as hard as he should. There's no reference to whether the alleged partying was after his rookie season or more recent, so I'd be wary about placing a lot of emphasis on this. By all accounts he's shown up to OTCs in great shape.

 

[Nemesis Enforcer]

Michael Clayton article

Here is an article posted a little while ago discussing Clayton. While it doesn't say that he was partying too much there are a couple of comments regarding the mental side of his game last season.

 

[zamboni]

Wasn't he made team captain before last year?

I wouldn't doubt he parties, as most young NFL players probably do. But I am skeptical about the aloofness and attitude.

I would guess he got a bit too complacent after his big rookie year.

 

[QUEZILLA]

 

[Knowlt]

Caution: RANT taking place hereWhat does the above reply have anything to do with this post??

If you don't have anything to add, then just read and move along. I makes for a lot of useless garbage posts that people who are actually looking for relevent information to sift through.

TIA

 

[TheFanatic]

Caution: RANT taking place hereWhat does the above reply have anything to do with this post??

If you don't have anything to add, then just read and move along. I makes for a lot of useless garbage posts that people who are actually looking for relevent information to sift through.

TIA

Thanks Knowlt. I'm not fishing. I'm a Clayton owner in two leagues (both handcuffed with Galloway) and want to know if there is anything to this claim. I've had Clayton since he was a rookie. with the 1.6 and 1.7 picks in our rookie draft that year I traded out of the round, passing on Roy Willams and Fitz, for Clayton in the 3rd and picked up 1st rounders in subsequent years. I looked like a genius after the rookie year. Last year Fitz blew up. Still, considering the 1st rounder I got, I believe I made the right decision. Should I be relying on this guy in 2006 like I did in 2004? I'm just looking for info. I believe the quote came from and ESPN Insider article from a pretty reputable sports journalist. This is not a fishing trip. It's a search for confirmation....Offer something that confirms or denies or get out of the thread...

 

[wannabee]

Fanatic, I cannot speak to the attitude part, but I see the main issue as being the lack of targets. Here is something I posted in another thread:

Disclaimer: I know injury claimed some of the blame for Clayton's lower numbers in 2005 compared to his rookie year in 2004.

But, I would like to offer another, alternative reason:

Drop in targets. Period.

Here are the numbers:

In 2004, Clayton had 116 of the 253 Tampa WR targets. Of those targets, he caught 80 passes for 1193 yds and 7 TDs. This was a very good rookie year. Also, Galloway and Jurevicius each missed six of the first 7 games. During this time, Clayton had 55 targets in his first 7 games. The surprising part is that the targets did not decrease when Galloway and Jurevicius came back. Clayton still averaged almost two more targets a game than did Galloway after Galloway came back from the injury.

In 2005, Clayton had 55 targets in 13 games. This is out of a total of WR targets of 270. Of those 55 targets, 32 netting 372 yds and 0 TDs. Oddly enough, Jurevicius departed and Galloway received the bulk of the targets. Galloway had 152 of the 270 total WR targets. In addition, Ike Hillard had 54 targets.

Now, let's look at the difference in targets. The targets for Clayton were almost cut in half on a per game basis. This has to play major part in the reduction in fantasy production. Something changes between 2004 and 2005 to flip-flop the targets.

Some possibilities:

a. Injury: Galloway was still nicked up when he first came back in 2004 and his targets rose as he became healthier. In addition, Clayton's injuries could have made him ineffective and less able to get open in 2005 than in 2004.

b. The addition of Caddy Williams in 2005 altered the routes and play-calling, and therefore the targets. In 2004, Pittman was leading rusher with 219 carries for 926 yds. In 2005, Caddy was the leading rusher 290 carries for 1178 yds.

c. Change of QB. In 2004, Griese played in 11 games and averaged 30 attempts a game. In 2005, Simms was the leading QB, playing in 11 games and and attemped 313 passes. Maybe Griese, as a veteran, gained confidence in the rookie (Clayton) and looked for him even after Galloway and Jurevicius came back. Simms, a young QB, looked for the stable, veteran WR (Galloway) often as a safety net, especially with a rookie RB.

d. Record of Tampa Bay. In 2004, the Bucs were 5-11 and 11-5 in 2005. This, in addition to the drafting of Caddy, could change the game plan.

In summary, I think some of the blame for the decrease in Clayton's fantasy production was due to injury. But, there are many other factors at work, too. In trying to define fantasy production for 2006, and beyond, I think we cannot assume that Clayton will automatically resume the position as focal point in the passing game, and thereby getting the largest chunk of the targets.

The targets will tell us in 2006 which year, 2004 or 2005, was the fluke.

The links for this info:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam2005.htm

http://www.footballguys.com/teampage-tam-2.php

 

[QUEZILLA]

I have heard nothing but good about Clayton this off-season. He has met with JG privately to ask him what he can do to get better, started coming in before anyone to use training facilities, etc.

I think if this is true, it may have happened a year ago. He had the "late surgery" excuse last season, but he knows JG wont hesitate to replace him if need be.

 

[TheFanatic]

I have heard nothing but good about Clayton this off-season. He has met with JG privately to ask him what he can do to get better, started coming in before anyone to use training facilities, etc.

I think if this is true, it may have happened a year ago. He had the "late surgery" excuse last season, but he knows JG wont hesitate to replace him if need be.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks for the response. The guy to me seems to be the future of the team. Galloway isn't getting any younger and Stovall doesn't seem to be WR1 material. WR3 maybe 2, but not WR1. And when I saw the blurb I was lost as I haven't heard anything along those lines in the past. I'm not fishing I'm looking to support or discredit thie blurb by Jeremy Green.....

 

[Swank]

I have heard nothing but good about Clayton this off-season.  He has met with JG privately to ask him what he can do to get better, started coming in before anyone to use training facilities, etc.

I think if this is true, it may have happened a year ago.  He had the "late surgery" excuse last season, but he knows JG wont hesitate to replace him if need be.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks for the response. The guy to me seems to be the future of the team. Galloway isn't getting any younger and Stovall doesn't seem to be WR1 material. WR3 maybe 2, but not WR1. And when I saw the blurb I was lost as I haven't heard anything along those lines in the past. I'm not fishing I'm looking to support or discredit thie blurb by Jeremy Green.....

Who knows what the rookie can do. Let me see: 6-4, good hands, 4.58 speed and can go over the middle. That to me could very well be a #1. Will he, probably not, but the guy has the tools-There was certainly something wrong with Clayton last year and hopefully it was all injury related.

 

[Bri]

there's some threads here IIRC he was quite banged up all season long. Maybe someone can search as all the articles I try to find are archived and unavailable

 

[Bri]

wannabe,

if hurt his targets(or QBs confidence in him) would be lower, no?

 

[wannabee]

wannabe,

if hurt his targets(or QBs confidence in him) would be lower, no?

Agree, but what degree for injury and what degree for change in QB from Griese to Simms? Also, what affect did the addition of a stud RB, Caddy, have on the situation?I have more questions than answers. I do not think we will know the true answer until September. But, I cannot think that we can fairly assume that, now we is healthy, Clayton will assume the production he had as a rookie. As per the above thread, I think the targets will tell the answer.

 

[QUEZILLA]

Here is the deal. He has always been a great athlete who has never been hurt, or been in a situation that required surgery. Therefore, he tried to let his injury get better and heal on it's own. By the time he decided it wasn't going to heal itself, and that he would for sure need surgery it was well into the off-season. This delayed his return, and caused him to miss all of camp.

That is the story I have heard from Pewter Report, the best place for Buc's info. I am very up to date on Buc's info, as I am a PR subscriber. If anybody else wants the inside info/ interviews/ analysis I highly recomend joining. Of all the stupid threads I have read on the these forums, and the PR ones, I have never heard this supposed claim made by D. Greens son. If it did happen he probably is just jealous of JG and the Buc's as JG was the QB coach of Green Bay when they owned his dads team. Tampa also owned Minny once we were in the Red and Pewter.

Take it for what it's worth, but it ultimately comes down to Michael Clayton.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Michael Clayton is a helluva downfield blocker.

Don't you guys get points for that in your leagues?

Amateurs.

 

[TheFanatic]

Here is the deal. He has always been a great athlete who has never been hurt, or been in a situation that required surgery. Therefore, he tried to let his injury get better and heal on it's own. By the time he decided it wasn't going to heal itself, and that he would for sure need surgery it was well into the off-season. This delayed his return, and caused him to miss all of camp.

That is the story I have heard from Pewter Report, the best place for Buc's info. I am very up to date on Buc's info, as I am a PR subscriber. If anybody else wants the inside info/ interviews/ analysis I highly recomend joining. Of all the stupid threads I have read on the these forums, and the PR ones, I have never heard this supposed claim made by D. Greens son. If it did happen he probably is just jealous of JG and the Buc's as JG was the QB coach of Green Bay when they owned his dads team. Tampa also owned Minny once we were in the Red and Pewter.

Take it for what it's worth, but it ultimately comes down to Michael Clayton.

As we have seen with some of the "journalists" that are in the news a lot that by making outrageous statements, even if completely false, these guys sell more papers get more face time on ESPN etc. I was wondering if this was one of those statements as I have NEVER heard of any of this garbage about Clayton. Sure, it could explain some of the problems last year but it sounds more like this guy is putting out some info purely for shock value rather than actually knowing if it's true or not.....

 

[Capella]

I talked with a scout on their staff that has told me the coaching staff is tiring of his partying, being late for meetings, not paying attention in meetings and basic aloof attitude.

I've never heard that before.

 

[Fullback Fro]

I talked with a scout on their staff that has told me the coaching staff is tiring of his partying, being late for meetings, not paying attention in meetings and basic aloof attitude.

I've never heard that before.

very interesting

 

[Madscott]

I have heard nothing but good about Clayton this off-season. He has met with JG privately to ask him what he can do to get better, started coming in before anyone to use training facilities, etc.

I think if this is true, it may have happened a year ago. He had the "late surgery" excuse last season, but he knows JG wont hesitate to replace him if need be.

Ditto here. I heard that he has really cleaned up his act as last season was an eye opener. That being said, I did hear that last offseason he was way too aloof and didn't take rehab/offseason stuff seriously at all. I seem to remember reading something about his partying as well. Nothing like a vet presence and the threat of losing your starting job to straighten you out.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I am 100% certain that last summer I read a post on this message board from somebody who either lived within few blocks of Clayton, or knew somebody who did. This poster talked about Clayton's constant partying.

So this isn't totally out of the blue.

No link (I wouldn't even know what to search for, and I think they prune old posts anyway).

 

[Workhorse]

I just posted this on another thread about Clayton. You might find it interesting. From today's Boston Globe:

Buc hoping to bounce back Apparently, Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden's planning is benefiting young wide receiver Mark Clayton. After a spectacular 2004 rookie season in which he caught 80 passes for 1,193 yards, Clayton was a disappointment last season. He was often missing from offseason workouts because of knee surgery, he came to training camp overweight, and he never found his stride. By season's end, you needed an APB to find Clayton on a pass route. Concerned about his future in Tampa, Clayton went to see Gruden soon after the season ended and was presented with a ``contract" that outlined Gruden's offseason expectations for him. Clayton signed it, and is now 13 pounds lighter and completely healthy. Whether that translates into a season more like his rookie year remains to be seen, but no one, including Gruden, can accuse him of not going with the program.

 

[Quez]

I just posted this on another thread about Clayton. You might find it interesting. From today's Boston Globe:

Buc hoping to bounce back

Apparently, Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden's planning is benefiting young wide receiver Mark Clayton. After a spectacular 2004 rookie season in which he caught 80 passes for 1,193 yards, Clayton was a disappointment last season. He was often missing from offseason workouts because of knee surgery, he came to training camp overweight, and he never found his stride. By season's end, you needed an APB to find Clayton on a pass route. Concerned about his future in Tampa, Clayton went to see Gruden soon after the season ended and was presented with a ``contract" that outlined Gruden's offseason expectations for him. Clayton signed it, and is now 13 pounds lighter and completely healthy. Whether that translates into a season more like his rookie year remains to be seen, but no one, including Gruden, can accuse him of not going with the program.

This is pretty much what I have been saying. With a PR subscription they pretty much say the same thing, but fill up several pages with it. I could post a bunch of the insider articles, but that is a big no no.

I also live in the town the guy plays in, so I hear him on the radio or on the news during interviews. He had a weekly radio show with Steve Duemig "The Michael Clayton Show", but I think it got canceled after his sub-par 05' season

 

[Quez]

I talked with a scout on their staff that has told me the coaching staff is tiring of his partying, being late for meetings, not paying attention in meetings and basic aloof attitude.

I've never heard that before.

very interesting

Never heard it either, and I know 1 scout and Monte's son.

 

[TheFanatic]

I just posted this on another thread about Clayton. You might find it interesting. From today's Boston Globe:

Buc hoping to bounce back

Apparently, Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden's planning is benefiting young wide receiver Mark Clayton. After a spectacular 2004 rookie season in which he caught 80 passes for 1,193 yards, Clayton was a disappointment last season. He was often missing from offseason workouts because of knee surgery, he came to training camp overweight, and he never found his stride. By season's end, you needed an APB to find Clayton on a pass route. Concerned about his future in Tampa, Clayton went to see Gruden soon after the season ended and was presented with a ``contract" that outlined Gruden's offseason expectations for him. Clayton signed it, and is now 13 pounds lighter and completely healthy. Whether that translates into a season more like his rookie year remains to be seen, but no one, including Gruden, can accuse him of not going with the program.

I would give this a except that Mark Clayton plays in Baltimore and Michael Clayton plays in Tampa. Couldn't Gruden and the Bucs get charged with tampering with this kind of interaction?