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Michael Bush -- still the key to your fantasy season? (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
The question is, will he be the key because you shrewdly selected him, or because you let someone else steal him?

I'm convinced that his 27-carry, 177-yard effort in week 17 against Tampa Bay will be closer to the norm going forward rather than a statistical anomaly. Let's look at his competition for carries. Justin Fargas is a good kid. He's a scrappy, tough kid. You'd want him in your foxhole. But he's not an elite talent. He will not stand in Bush's way. He'll be a perfect change of pace back, and he won't complain about it. Darren McFadden IS an elite talent, but he is a specialized talent... Reggie Bush west. His skill set is clearly defined. He'll run the stretch plays; the toss sweeps; catch screen passes; he'll be the single-wing in the Wildcat every now and again. But he's not a hammer. He will not pound the ball between the tackles 20 times. That's just not how he's built. McFadden carried the ball more than 14 times only ONCE all season last year, and I expect that trend to continue. And that was with Bush being largely a non-factor most of the year.

Now that Michael is healthy and up to speed on the offense, I expect big things. Don't forget that Bush was clearly a 1st-round talent coming out of Louisville had he not broken his leg his final college season. He is extremely talented. Let's get to Tom Cable. Most people view him as the village idiot... nothing more than Al's latest lackey. That may all be true, but if there's one thing the man knows how to do, it's coach up the offensive line and create an effective running game. His power ZBS is shaping up exactly the way he pictured it. We're not quite there yet, but I'm not losing sleep over it. (I'm losing sleep over the run defense, but that's for another thread).

Oakland traded for Miami center Samson Satele, who should be perfect for this team. He had a down year with the Fins last season, but that was due more to being a poor fit in their scheme. Robert Gallery is now a fixture at left guard. He is no longer a penalty flag machine, and he has quietly become one of the best guards in the league. The other line spots figure to be manned by Mario Henderson, Khalif Barnes and Cooper Carlisle. Not exactly the 1993 Cowboys, but for what we are looking to do they are more than serviceable. Not to mention, there is always a chance the team will grab one of the premier O-tackles in the draft with the 1.07 selection.

So the question you're going to ask me is, "Okay smart guy, when should I draft Bush?" Unfortunately, I cannot answer that. Every draft is different. You have to have a feel for the room, and know the guys you're drafting with. If you think he won't be there at your next pick, take him. I fully expect Bush to end up with the kind of numbers that RBs drafted in rounds 1 & 2 will put up, and you'll get him at a much cheaper price. Just hope Oakland sits on him a bit in the preseason. If he tears it up, his value will skyrocket.

 
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I wonder if this is a contract season for Bush? Could be a great pickup for a dynasty value in hopes of a Turner like 2010/11 season?

 
I love M.Bush, but hes a tough guy to trade for in dynasty leagues because his owners feel the same way you do. He went in the 9th rd of a redraft I just finished which I thought was pretty decent value considering the upside

 
I love M.Bush, but hes a tough guy to trade for in dynasty leagues because his owners feel the same way you do. He went in the 9th rd of a redraft I just finished which I thought was pretty decent value considering the upside
I traded him a couple months ago. I did and do think he will be a good fantasy player at some point. No idea when that will be though. Could start to be this year, next year, or the year after.
 
I wonder if this is a contract season for Bush? Could be a great pickup for a dynasty value in hopes of a Turner like 2010/11 season?
According to Rotoworld, Bush signed a four-year, $2.165 million contract in July of 2007. FWIW...Fargas signed a three-year, $12 million contract last year.
 
I wonder if this is a contract season for Bush? Could be a great pickup for a dynasty value in hopes of a Turner like 2010/11 season?
Bush has two years left on his deal.Depending on the CBA, if he's a RFA, the Raiders could keep him for another year.
 
The question is, will he be the key because you shrewdly selected him, or because you let someone else steal him?

I'm convinced that his 27-carry, 177-yard effort in week 17 against Tampa Bay will be closer to the norm going forward rather than a statistical anomaly. Let's look at his competition for carries. Justin Fargas is a good kid. He's a scrappy, tough kid. You'd want him in your foxhole. But he's not an elite talent. He will not stand in Bush's way. He'll be a perfect change of pace back, and he won't complain about it. Darren McFadden IS an elite talent, but he is a specialized talent... Reggie Bush west. His skill set is clearly defined. He'll run the stretch plays; the toss sweeps; catch screen passes; he'll be the single-wing in the Wildcat every now and again. But he's not a hammer. He will not pound the ball between the tackles 20 times. That's just not how he's built. McFadden carried the ball more than 14 times only ONCE all season last year, and I expect that trend to continue. And that was with Bush being largely a non-factor most of the year.

Now that Michael is healthy and up to speed on the offense, I expect big things. Don't forget that Bush was clearly a 1st-round talent coming out of Louisville had he not broken his leg his final college season. He is extremely talented. Let's get to Tom Cable. Most people view him as the village idiot... nothing more than Al's latest lackey. That may all be true, but if there's one thing the man knows how to do, it's coach up the offensive line and create an effective running game. His power ZBS is shaping up exactly the way he pictured it. We're not quite there yet, but I'm not losing sleep over it. (I'm losing sleep over the run defense, but that's for another thread).

Oakland traded for Miami center Samson Satele, who should be perfect for this team. He had a down year with the Fins last season, but that was due more to being a poor fit in their scheme. Robert Gallery is now a fixture at left guard. He is no longer a penalty flag machine, and he has quietly become one of the best guards in the league. The other line spots figure to be manned by Mario Henderson, Khalif Barnes and Cooper Carlisle. Not exactly the 1993 Cowboys, but for what we are looking to do they are more than serviceable. Not to mention, there is always a chance the team will grab one of the premier O-tackles in the draft with the 1.07 selection.

So the question you're going to ask me is, "Okay smart guy, when should I draft Bush?" Unfortunately, I cannot answer that. Every draft is different. You have to have a feel for the room, and know the guys you're drafting with. If you think he won't be there at your next pick, take him. I fully expect Bush to end up with the kind of numbers that RBs drafted in rounds 1 & 2 will put up, and you'll get him at a much cheaper price. Just hope Oakland sits on him a bit in the preseason. If he tears it up, his value will skyrocket.
I value the analysis, but I couldn't disagree more.Michael Bush seems somewhat overrated in general and I think you are grossly underrating McFadden's ability, especially as an inside runner.

His 177-2 game against Tampa is being very overvalued, its really not all that impressive. Tampa was the worst run defense in the league at the time, they had been allowing similar games for about a month. Hell, Carolina had 2 guys put up similar numbers in the same game. If they had settled on one RB I think its fair to say that guy would have made a run at the single game rushing record.

I think McFadden going over 14 carries only once had nothing to do at all with his alleged "specialized skill set" and everything to do with having several nagging injuries. If he stays healthy he should average that many carries a game.

I also disagree that Bush was clearly a 1st round talent, he was maybe a late-first early second if healthy. A nice steal for Oakland, but not an elite talent.

I completely agree with you on Tom Cable and the Raiders O-line and that's something that is being really overlooked by many, but I think you are backing the wrong player.

I'm thinking the carry breakdown will be something like:

McFadden-225 55 catches

Bush-150 10 catches

Fargas-60 10 catches

 
The question is, will he be the key because you shrewdly selected him, or because you let someone else steal him?

I'm convinced that his 27-carry, 177-yard effort in week 17 against Tampa Bay will be closer to the norm going forward rather than a statistical anomaly. Let's look at his competition for carries. Justin Fargas is a good kid. He's a scrappy, tough kid. You'd want him in your foxhole. But he's not an elite talent. He will not stand in Bush's way. He'll be a perfect change of pace back, and he won't complain about it. Darren McFadden IS an elite talent, but he is a specialized talent... Reggie Bush west. His skill set is clearly defined. He'll run the stretch plays; the toss sweeps; catch screen passes; he'll be the single-wing in the Wildcat every now and again. But he's not a hammer. He will not pound the ball between the tackles 20 times. That's just not how he's built. McFadden carried the ball more than 14 times only ONCE all season last year, and I expect that trend to continue. And that was with Bush being largely a non-factor most of the year.

Now that Michael is healthy and up to speed on the offense, I expect big things. Don't forget that Bush was clearly a 1st-round talent coming out of Louisville had he not broken his leg his final college season. He is extremely talented. Let's get to Tom Cable. Most people view him as the village idiot... nothing more than Al's latest lackey. That may all be true, but if there's one thing the man knows how to do, it's coach up the offensive line and create an effective running game. His power ZBS is shaping up exactly the way he pictured it. We're not quite there yet, but I'm not losing sleep over it. (I'm losing sleep over the run defense, but that's for another thread).

Oakland traded for Miami center Samson Satele, who should be perfect for this team. He had a down year with the Fins last season, but that was due more to being a poor fit in their scheme. Robert Gallery is now a fixture at left guard. He is no longer a penalty flag machine, and he has quietly become one of the best guards in the league. The other line spots figure to be manned by Mario Henderson, Khalif Barnes and Cooper Carlisle. Not exactly the 1993 Cowboys, but for what we are looking to do they are more than serviceable. Not to mention, there is always a chance the team will grab one of the premier O-tackles in the draft with the 1.07 selection.

So the question you're going to ask me is, "Okay smart guy, when should I draft Bush?" Unfortunately, I cannot answer that. Every draft is different. You have to have a feel for the room, and know the guys you're drafting with. If you think he won't be there at your next pick, take him. I fully expect Bush to end up with the kind of numbers that RBs drafted in rounds 1 & 2 will put up, and you'll get him at a much cheaper price. Just hope Oakland sits on him a bit in the preseason. If he tears it up, his value will skyrocket.
I value the analysis, but I couldn't disagree more.Michael Bush seems somewhat overrated in general and I think you are grossly underrating McFadden's ability, especially as an inside runner.

His 177-2 game against Tampa is being very overvalued, its really not all that impressive. Tampa was the worst run defense in the league at the time, they had been allowing similar games for about a month. Hell, Carolina had 2 guys put up similar numbers in the same game. If they had settled on one RB I think its fair to say that guy would have made a run at the single game rushing record.

I think McFadden going over 14 carries only once had nothing to do at all with his alleged "specialized skill set" and everything to do with having several nagging injuries. If he stays healthy he should average that many carries a game.

I also disagree that Bush was clearly a 1st round talent, he was maybe a late-first early second if healthy. A nice steal for Oakland, but not an elite talent.

I completely agree with you on Tom Cable and the Raiders O-line and that's something that is being really overlooked by many, but I think you are backing the wrong player.

I'm thinking the carry breakdown will be something like:

McFadden-225 55 catches

Bush-150 10 catches

Fargas-60 10 catches
Thanks for the input. I always welcome dissenting opinions. :thumbdown: If I'm wrong on this, it won't be the first time. But I do love the kid.

 
I agree with the OP that Bush and the Raiders run offense have some serious sleeper potential with Cable's proven ZBS system.

But I also agree that McFadden is the special talent here.

That said, both players can put up some serious numbers this year. It's the presence of Fargas that week to week really muddies all three players' value.

When it comes to RBBC, two's company, three's a crowd.

 
shhhhhhh........don't let the cat out of the bag.......
Seriously, why advertise him?
uhh because this is the Shark Pool and one of the things that makes the Shark Pool the greatest FF site in the universe is discussion like this.I tend to agree that Bush is being grossly undervalued right now, especially in dynasty leagues. I just can't get excited about the raiders offense though. I think Bush will eventually make an impact somewhere, but I don't see it with the raiders.
 
I also disagree that Bush was clearly a 1st round talent, he was maybe a late-first early second if healthy. A nice steal for Oakland, but not an elite talent.
==================================
Bush is in his second season. He was considered to have first-round talent until he suffered a broken leg in the first game of his senior season at Louisville.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/10/12/...ng-fargas-bush/
If running back Michael Bush ever returns to health, he's a guy who had first-round talent before getting hurt and could be a bruising power runner.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-a...o&type=lgns
Second Day Steal: Michael Bush, RB, Louisville 4(100)

Bush is a first round talent if not for the injury. He should recover completely, making him one of biggest steals of the draft.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/afcgrades.html
Fourth round pick Louisville running back Michael Bush could potentially turn into the steal of the draft. The Raiders need to let him sit out until he's completely healthy, even if it means not playing him at all during the 2007 season. He has first round talent and no chances should be taken with his future.
http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/draftgrades07.htmetc, etc.

 
I tend to agree that Bush is being grossly undervalued right now, especially in dynasty leagues. I just can't get excited about the raiders offense though. I think Bush will eventually make an impact somewhere, but I don't see it with the raiders.
I think the Bush to Chargers trade deadline rumor last year was legit, but from everything I've read all these subsequent rumors about him going anywhere (Tampa Bay, Cincinnati) have been debunked as pure internet conjecture. I don't think Bush is going anywhere anytime soon, so if you're waiting for him to go somewhere else, I think you'll be waiting a long time.
 
I tend to agree that Bush is being grossly undervalued right now, especially in dynasty leagues. I just can't get excited about the raiders offense though. I think Bush will eventually make an impact somewhere, but I don't see it with the raiders.
I think the Bush to Chargers trade deadline rumor last year was legit, but from everything I've read all these subsequent rumors about him going anywhere (Tampa Bay, Cincinnati) have been debunked as pure internet conjecture. I don't think Bush is going anywhere anytime soon, so if you're waiting for him to go somewhere else, I think you'll be waiting a long time.
raider/charger trade?? never gonna happen. not with any player, ever
 
The question is, will he be the key because you shrewdly selected him, or because you let someone else steal him?

I'm convinced that his 27-carry, 177-yard effort in week 17 against Tampa Bay will be closer to the norm going forward rather than a statistical anomaly. Let's look at his competition for carries. Justin Fargas is a good kid. He's a scrappy, tough kid. You'd want him in your foxhole. But he's not an elite talent. He will not stand in Bush's way. He'll be a perfect change of pace back, and he won't complain about it. Darren McFadden IS an elite talent, but he is a specialized talent... Reggie Bush west. His skill set is clearly defined. He'll run the stretch plays; the toss sweeps; catch screen passes; he'll be the single-wing in the Wildcat every now and again. But he's not a hammer. He will not pound the ball between the tackles 20 times. That's just not how he's built. McFadden carried the ball more than 14 times only ONCE all season last year, and I expect that trend to continue. And that was with Bush being largely a non-factor most of the year.

Now that Michael is healthy and up to speed on the offense, I expect big things. Don't forget that Bush was clearly a 1st-round talent coming out of Louisville had he not broken his leg his final college season. He is extremely talented. Let's get to Tom Cable. Most people view him as the village idiot... nothing more than Al's latest lackey. That may all be true, but if there's one thing the man knows how to do, it's coach up the offensive line and create an effective running game. His power ZBS is shaping up exactly the way he pictured it. We're not quite there yet, but I'm not losing sleep over it. (I'm losing sleep over the run defense, but that's for another thread).

Oakland traded for Miami center Samson Satele, who should be perfect for this team. He had a down year with the Fins last season, but that was due more to being a poor fit in their scheme. Robert Gallery is now a fixture at left guard. He is no longer a penalty flag machine, and he has quietly become one of the best guards in the league. The other line spots figure to be manned by Mario Henderson, Khalif Barnes and Cooper Carlisle. Not exactly the 1993 Cowboys, but for what we are looking to do they are more than serviceable. Not to mention, there is always a chance the team will grab one of the premier O-tackles in the draft with the 1.07 selection.

So the question you're going to ask me is, "Okay smart guy, when should I draft Bush?" Unfortunately, I cannot answer that. Every draft is different. You have to have a feel for the room, and know the guys you're drafting with. If you think he won't be there at your next pick, take him. I fully expect Bush to end up with the kind of numbers that RBs drafted in rounds 1 & 2 will put up, and you'll get him at a much cheaper price. Just hope Oakland sits on him a bit in the preseason. If he tears it up, his value will skyrocket.
I value the analysis, but I couldn't disagree more.Michael Bush seems somewhat overrated in general and I think you are grossly underrating McFadden's ability, especially as an inside runner.

His 177-2 game against Tampa is being very overvalued, its really not all that impressive. Tampa was the worst run defense in the league at the time, they had been allowing similar games for about a month. Hell, Carolina had 2 guys put up similar numbers in the same game. If they had settled on one RB I think its fair to say that guy would have made a run at the single game rushing record.

I think McFadden going over 14 carries only once had nothing to do at all with his alleged "specialized skill set" and everything to do with having several nagging injuries. If he stays healthy he should average that many carries a game.

I also disagree that Bush was clearly a 1st round talent, he was maybe a late-first early second if healthy. A nice steal for Oakland, but not an elite talent.

I completely agree with you on Tom Cable and the Raiders O-line and that's something that is being really overlooked by many, but I think you are backing the wrong player.

I'm thinking the carry breakdown will be something like:

McFadden-225 55 catches

Bush-150 10 catches

Fargas-60 10 catches
I think your downgrading Bush a little too much. Bush had 19 receptions last year and last year he only only touched the field in 10 games in the season. I don't see how he's going to regress to 10 receptions on the year assuming he's playing something close to 16 games next year.
 
I tend to agree that Bush is being grossly undervalued right now, especially in dynasty leagues. I just can't get excited about the raiders offense though. I think Bush will eventually make an impact somewhere, but I don't see it with the raiders.
I think the Bush to Chargers trade deadline rumor last year was legit, but from everything I've read all these subsequent rumors about him going anywhere (Tampa Bay, Cincinnati) have been debunked as pure internet conjecture. I don't think Bush is going anywhere anytime soon, so if you're waiting for him to go somewhere else, I think you'll be waiting a long time.
raider/charger trade?? never gonna happen. not with any player, ever
I agree, it would certanly be surprising. But reports from down here in San Diego were that the deal was pretty close. I bring it up only because I think that "near deal" is a lot of the basis for a lot of his involvement in internet trade speculation this offseason.In case you'd like to read about the Chargers/Raiders deal that didn't happen, here's the link:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/200...62949/?chargers

 
I tend to agree that Bush is being grossly undervalued right now, especially in dynasty leagues. I just can't get excited about the raiders offense though. I think Bush will eventually make an impact somewhere, but I don't see it with the raiders.
I think the Bush to Chargers trade deadline rumor last year was legit, but from everything I've read all these subsequent rumors about him going anywhere (Tampa Bay, Cincinnati) have been debunked as pure internet conjecture. I don't think Bush is going anywhere anytime soon, so if you're waiting for him to go somewhere else, I think you'll be waiting a long time.
raider/charger trade?? never gonna happen. not with any player, ever
I agree, it would certanly be surprising. But reports from down here in San Diego were that the deal was pretty close. I bring it up only because I think that "near deal" is a lot of the basis for a lot of his involvement in internet trade speculation this offseason.In case you'd like to read about the Chargers/Raiders deal that didn't happen, here's the link:

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/200...62949/?chargers
i know what the papers said. his name being tossed around this offseason is because he has value. think poorman's brandon jacobs.
 
I tend to agree with your analysis, but I am not as confident as you are. I watched alot of Raider's games last year being in the Bay area, and I do feel like Bush is a better three down back than McFadden, but McFadden clearly has talent. I could see these two being used like Reggie Bush and Deuce were a couple of years ago. But there are questions: his ability to stay healthy for a full season as a featured back in the NFL has not been proven yet; can the Raider's offense really sustain two backs enough for both to have fantasy value?

 
U say fargas is not an elite talent. I agree, but neither is bush. In fact, fargas is more talented than bush IMO. 3rd most talented rb in a rbbc ehhhhh I won't be reaching. Glad to see him healthy in the NFL though.

 
U say fargas is not an elite talent. I agree, but neither is bush. In fact, fargas is more talented than bush IMO.
I disagree strongly.Here's the thing. We don't know that Bush isn't elite. Excuse the double-negative. But we do know that Fargas isn't elite. I obviously think we'll get to see the "real" Michael Bush this season... healthy and ready to roll. Nevertheless, it's useless to compare these two guys. They are very different runners.

 
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.

 
Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
 
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Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
Is Oakland's D good enough to keep games close enough so they can stay with the run on a consistent basis?Overall I don't disagree which is why I see a RBBC unless McFadden suddenly turns into the player he was at Arkansas.
 
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Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
Is Oakland's D good enough to keep games close enough so they can stay with the run on a consistent basis?
That, sir, is the # 1 question entering the season. All I can do is pray.
 
Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
Is Oakland's D good enough to keep games close enough so they can stay with the run on a consistent basis?
That, sir, is the # 1 question entering the season. All I can do is pray.
That's a reasonable question, but now that I think about it didn't matter last year! If they were behind a ton they still kept pounding the ball.
 
Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
Is Oakland's D good enough to keep games close enough so they can stay with the run on a consistent basis?
That, sir, is the # 1 question entering the season. All I can do is pray.
That's a reasonable question, but now that I think about it didn't matter last year! If they were behind a ton they still kept pounding the ball.
there Defesnse IMO is good enough.It's the QB play that will be needed to Keep drives going and keep opp defenses honest.
 
Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
I think Reggie Bush is a fine comparison, with maybe a bit more decisiveness on inside running, but quite a bit less wiggle. DMC doesn't have the shiftiness of almost every other top back in the league, IMO. I have real questions about his ability to stay low and break tackles, and avoid injury. He givesyou a lot to hit. But from everything I have seen, he is going to be a real weapon in the passing game. His one saving grace in theis running system, IMO, is that he's shown thus far to be a one cut and go RB, which fits the ZBS. I could definitely see a scenario where Bush gets more carries in a game, and DMC does more damage in the air. I don't think it'll happen a lot, but maybe more a matchup thing, where some defenses are soft against a big back.
 
Boston said:
McFadden may or may not be "Reggie Bush west." That's for another thread. Yet, I don't see Oakland already coming to that conclusion after one injury-plagued year. I see them giving him plenty of opportunity to prove that he can be the elite RB they thought they drafted with a very high pick. Due to that I see him being a big part of the Oakland backfield this year...enough that it will make the other RBs difficult to rely on on a weekly basis.
There's room for everyone. Oakland WILL run the ball this year. One of the ways you help a poor run defense is by having an effective run offense. The less our defense is on the field, the better. In any scenario, someone's stats will suffer. In this case, it's Russell. I'd love to see his big arm in an offense where he gets to fling it around 35 times, but that's not going to happen in Oakland. At least not now.
Is Oakland's D good enough to keep games close enough so they can stay with the run on a consistent basis?Overall I don't disagree which is why I see a RBBC unless McFadden suddenly turns into the player he was at Arkansas.
He is the player that came out of Arkansas , but this is not Arkansas it s the NFL.
 
The question is, will he be the key because you shrewdly selected him, or because you let someone else steal him?

I'm convinced that his 27-carry, 177-yard effort in week 17 against Tampa Bay will be closer to the norm going forward rather than a statistical anomaly. Let's look at his competition for carries. Justin Fargas is a good kid. He's a scrappy, tough kid. You'd want him in your foxhole. But he's not an elite talent. He will not stand in Bush's way. He'll be a perfect change of pace back, and he won't complain about it. Darren McFadden IS an elite talent, but he is a specialized talent... Reggie Bush west. His skill set is clearly defined. He'll run the stretch plays; the toss sweeps; catch screen passes; he'll be the single-wing in the Wildcat every now and again. But he's not a hammer. He will not pound the ball between the tackles 20 times. That's just not how he's built. McFadden carried the ball more than 14 times only ONCE all season last year, and I expect that trend to continue. And that was with Bush being largely a non-factor most of the year.

Now that Michael is healthy and up to speed on the offense, I expect big things. Don't forget that Bush was clearly a 1st-round talent coming out of Louisville had he not broken his leg his final college season. He is extremely talented. Let's get to Tom Cable. Most people view him as the village idiot... nothing more than Al's latest lackey. That may all be true, but if there's one thing the man knows how to do, it's coach up the offensive line and create an effective running game. His power ZBS is shaping up exactly the way he pictured it. We're not quite there yet, but I'm not losing sleep over it. (I'm losing sleep over the run defense, but that's for another thread).

Oakland traded for Miami center Samson Satele, who should be perfect for this team. He had a down year with the Fins last season, but that was due more to being a poor fit in their scheme. Robert Gallery is now a fixture at left guard. He is no longer a penalty flag machine, and he has quietly become one of the best guards in the league. The other line spots figure to be manned by Mario Henderson, Khalif Barnes and Cooper Carlisle. Not exactly the 1993 Cowboys, but for what we are looking to do they are more than serviceable. Not to mention, there is always a chance the team will grab one of the premier O-tackles in the draft with the 1.07 selection.

So the question you're going to ask me is, "Okay smart guy, when should I draft Bush?" Unfortunately, I cannot answer that. Every draft is different. You have to have a feel for the room, and know the guys you're drafting with. If you think he won't be there at your next pick, take him. I fully expect Bush to end up with the kind of numbers that RBs drafted in rounds 1 & 2 will put up, and you'll get him at a much cheaper price. Just hope Oakland sits on him a bit in the preseason. If he tears it up, his value will skyrocket.
I value the analysis, but I couldn't disagree more.Michael Bush seems somewhat overrated in general and I think you are grossly underrating McFadden's ability, especially as an inside runner.

His 177-2 game against Tampa is being very overvalued, its really not all that impressive. Tampa was the worst run defense in the league at the time, they had been allowing similar games for about a month. Hell, Carolina had 2 guys put up similar numbers in the same game. If they had settled on one RB I think its fair to say that guy would have made a run at the single game rushing record.

I think McFadden going over 14 carries only once had nothing to do at all with his alleged "specialized skill set" and everything to do with having several nagging injuries. If he stays healthy he should average that many carries a game.

I also disagree that Bush was clearly a 1st round talent, he was maybe a late-first early second if healthy. A nice steal for Oakland, but not an elite talent.

I completely agree with you on Tom Cable and the Raiders O-line and that's something that is being really overlooked by many, but I think you are backing the wrong player.

I'm thinking the carry breakdown will be something like:

McFadden-225 55 catches

Bush-150 10 catches

Fargas-60 10 catches
you've got the wrong player.No way McFadden stays healthy long enough to make it to 225 carries..McFadden is the second coming of Robert Smith or Chris Brown..he runs upright, he doesn't avoid contact he loves dishing it out, and he's left parts of other games with various nagging little injuries ( neck stinger, toe problems,etc)..this guy is a potato chip..

Bush - 250 carries, 35 rec

McFadden - 125 carries, 25 rec

Fargas - 70, 10

even when 'healthy' McFadden only rushed for 4.4 yards per carry last season, which is just slightly better than ho-hum..

 
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I think your downgrading Bush a little too much. Bush had 19 receptions last year and last year he only only touched the field in 10 games in the season. I don't see how he's going to regress to 10 receptions on the year assuming he's playing something close to 16 games next year.
:lmao:
 

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