Mike Martz (1 Viewer)

[twistd]

What I can't seem to understand is, if Martz is such an offensive genius, then why is it that this goofy spread offense is all he can run? When Bill Parcels went to New England he realized that, although he preferred a power running game, his best weapon was Drew Bledsoe. So he morphed the team in to a pass first team to take advantage of the weapons he had at his disposal. Martz was in SF last year and the best weapon they had was Gore, yet he insists on running this spread offense which largely takes the ball out of Gores hands. And despite the fact that they really didn't have the receivers to run this system. Their best receiver was a TE, which Martz proceeded to under-utilize. The Bears have two good running backs it seems, but this system really takes the ball out of their hands. The system already creates protection problems, and the Bears have a weak offensive line. One of their best offensive weapons could be Olsen, but Martz doesn't use TEs. Cutler led the league in interceptions last year and now you put him in a system that seems to generate more interceptions. If Martz is so smart, why doesn't he tweak the system to fit the players he has, instead of trying to force the players in to a system that probably isn't right for them?

I believe that the most successful time with this offensive system was when Martz was running it in St Louis with Warner/Bulger, Faulk, Holt and Bruce. I think that group of talent could have been pretty successful in almost any system. They might not of put up the terrific numbers, but they would have been very, very good in a West Coast offense, or just a more conventional offense.

I think this offense has all the earmarks of a disaster for the Bears. And Martz, Lovie, Marinelli, and Angelo will all be gone after this season.

 

[higgins]

I concur -- message is authentic.

 

[latrops]

Who calls him a genius?

He has a system that tends to make qbs and wrs statistically productive. With the right players (preferrably on turf) his system can set records. It stinks for TEs and rbs that can't catch, tends to get qbs hit a lot, and leads to a lot of turnovers when things don't go just right.

 

[LittlePhatty]

I concur -- message is authentic.

What if Martz already surrendered and it's over, huh? We launch. He sees us, and he launches. Our birds pass each other in the air. Boom. What have you got?

 

[David Yudkin]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.

First year as a coach on a new team:

1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 1998

2006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 2005

2008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Martz basically run the Air Coryell system that SD ran in the 70s/80s.

Ask Kellen Winslow the first, wehn the rams where the greatest show on turf he claimed he could of ran every play they ran. same offense

 

[twistd]

Who calls him a genius?He has a system that tends to make qbs and wrs statistically productive. With the right players (preferrably on turf) his system can set records. It stinks for TEs and rbs that can't catch, tends to get qbs hit a lot, and leads to a lot of turnovers when things don't go just right.

I have heard a lot over the past few years of what a brilliant offensive mind he is. Maybe genius is overstating it, but obviously he garners a lot of respect around the league or he wouldn't keep getting hired. His system has put up numbers but hasn't been creating wins. As I stated it was very successful with the crew he had in St Louis, but it hasn't been nearly as successful in Detroit or SF, his last two stops, or his last two years in St Louis. It takes a lot of time to learn, requires the right personnel, and as you said, preferably a dome. It worked beautifully with the Warner/Bulger, Holt, Faulk, and Bruce combination, but hasn't been nearly as successful with anyone else.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

The one thing I disagree with here is the comparison of personnel. The martz rams and the current bears have similar personnel. Shifty pass catching backs, small speedy receivers, and a QB who can sling the ball with zip and isn't afraid to let it fly. The real question is whether they can do this without creating multitudes of TO's. When ran right this O is supposed to be able to negate a pass rush, by dumping quickly over it. Now whether they can do that is what remains to be seen.

 

[twistd]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.First year as a coach on a new team:1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 19982006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 20052008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

Detroit went from 5-11 in 2005 to 3-13 in 2006SF went from 7-9 in 2008 to 8-8 in 2009 And I would argue that the improvement was more Singletary as coach rather than Martz as OCSo my point is that although his teams score more points, they don't win more games. And as the Herm Edwards once said,"You play to win the games."

 

[Chaka]

The one thing I disagree with here is the comparison of personnel. The martz rams and the current bears have similar personnel. Shifty pass catching backs, small speedy receivers, and a QB who can sling the ball with zip and isn't afraid to let it fly. The real question is whether they can do this without creating multitudes of TO's. When ran right this O is supposed to be able to negate a pass rush, by dumping quickly over it. Now whether they can do that is what remains to be seen.

Nowhere on the Bears roster is there a WR comparable to Issac Bruce and Torry Holt. Warner was more accurate than Cutler. There is also no force out of the backfield in Chicago that even remotely compares with Marshall Faulk. It also looks like Chi has a bottom 1/3 o-line.Other than that you're spot on.

 

[twistd]

Martz basically run the Air Coryell system that SD ran in the 70s/80s. Ask Kellen Winslow the first, wehn the rams where the greatest show on turf he claimed he could of ran every play they ran. same offense

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Fouts getting beaten like a pinata running the Air Coryell system in San Diego. That system didn't seem to have these protection problems. Although he did throw a lot of interceptions.

 

[Phil McRevis]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.First year as a coach on a new team:1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 19982006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 20052008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

Detroit went from 5-11 in 2005 to 3-13 in 2006SF went from 7-9 in 2008 to 8-8 in 2009 And I would argue that the improvement was more Singletary as coach rather than Martz as OCSo my point is that although his teams score more points, they don't win more games. And as the Herm Edwards once said,"You play to win the games."

As an offensive coordinator, your job is to score points. Just because the DC drops the ball doesn't mean he should get blame. He's not as good as we once thought but he does cause his teams to score more points than they would without him.

 

[TheFanatic]

Martz basically run the Air Coryell system that SD ran in the 70s/80s. Ask Kellen Winslow the first, wehn the rams where the greatest show on turf he claimed he could of ran every play they ran. same offense

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember Fouts getting beaten like a pinata running the Air Coryell system in San Diego. That system didn't seem to have these protection problems. Although he did throw a lot of interceptions.

That and Martz never runs plays to the TE, so what plays was Kellen talking about running?

 

[DoubleG]

The one thing I disagree with here is the comparison of personnel. The martz rams and the current bears have similar personnel. Shifty pass catching backs, small speedy receivers, and a QB who can sling the ball with zip and isn't afraid to let it fly. The real question is whether they can do this without creating multitudes of TO's. When ran right this O is supposed to be able to negate a pass rush, by dumping quickly over it. Now whether they can do that is what remains to be seen.

Nowhere on the Bears roster is there a WR comparable to Issac Bruce and Torry Holt. Warner was more accurate than Cutler. There is also no force out of the backfield in Chicago that even remotely compares with Marshall Faulk. It also looks like Chi has a bottom 1/3 o-line.Other than that you're spot on.

Lest you make it sound like the Bears skill players are total ####, you are right - they're different. Hester and Knox are faster than Bruce and Holt were - although not as savvy (especially Hester) nor are they as accomplished at this point. While Cutler doesn't have the accuracy Warner had, he has a stronger arm and is much more mobile. I agree the Bears O-line is weak and they're RBs<Faulk, however with the Cutler's mobility, the weak offensive line may not be as big an issue as it otherwise may have been. While the RBs are hardly all-world, let's not forget Forte's rookie season and Taylor is a very accomplished pass catching back. Both have been starting RBs on decent teams (Forte's rookie and Taylor for the Vikes the year before they drafted ADP).I would not say the Bear's offensive players (other than o-line) are weaker than other teams Martz has coached to offensive improvements - just different.

 

[Chaka]

The one thing I disagree with here is the comparison of personnel. The martz rams and the current bears have similar personnel. Shifty pass catching backs, small speedy receivers, and a QB who can sling the ball with zip and isn't afraid to let it fly. The real question is whether they can do this without creating multitudes of TO's. When ran right this O is supposed to be able to negate a pass rush, by dumping quickly over it. Now whether they can do that is what remains to be seen.

Nowhere on the Bears roster is there a WR comparable to Issac Bruce and Torry Holt. Warner was more accurate than Cutler. There is also no force out of the backfield in Chicago that even remotely compares with Marshall Faulk. It also looks like Chi has a bottom 1/3 o-line.Other than that you're spot on.

Lest you make it sound like the Bears skill players are total ####, you are right - they're different. Hester and Knox are faster than Bruce and Holt were - although not as savvy (especially Hester) nor are they as accomplished at this point. While Cutler doesn't have the accuracy Warner had, he has a stronger arm and is much more mobile. I agree the Bears O-line is weak and they're RBs<Faulk, however with the Cutler's mobility, the weak offensive line may not be as big an issue as it otherwise may have been. While the RBs are hardly all-world, let's not forget Forte's rookie season and Taylor is a very accomplished pass catching back. Both have been starting RBs on decent teams (Forte's rookie and Taylor for the Vikes the year before they drafted ADP).I would not say the Bear's offensive players (other than o-line) are weaker than other teams Martz has coached to offensive improvements - just different.

They're faster? 1) I am not so sure they are faster than Ike in his prime and 2) Big deal. Renaldo Nehemiah was faster than any of those guys but that didn't make him a good WR.Martz's system need the QBs to stay in the pocket and let the longer patterns by the WRs develop and the QB needs to have pinpoint accuracy to hit them where Martz wants them to be hit. Being less accurate than Warner to begin with and running for his life won't help Cutler make that happen.You could splice Forte and Taylor together and barely get half the back that Marshall was.There is simply no comparison to Martz's Det, SF or Chi teams and what the Rams were under him.I am not saying there is no value here or that the Bears are bad, but the Rams under Martz were one of the best offenses in the history or the NFL. There is no shame in not measuring up to them.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.First year as a coach on a new team:1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 19982006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 20052008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

Detroit went from 5-11 in 2005 to 3-13 in 2006SF went from 7-9 in 2008 to 8-8 in 2009 And I would argue that the improvement was more Singletary as coach rather than Martz as OCSo my point is that although his teams score more points, they don't win more games. And as the Herm Edwards once said,"You play to win the games."

he made teams with Kitna and a guy name JTO at QB score more pts than before he got there... that must prove something.Singletary light a fire in the Defense and in VD.

 

[Clifford]

Martz's system and the Bears mentality are oil and water. I hated this signing when it happened, and despite swallowing an offseason's worth of hype, I still this as a one year

 

[massraider]

Who calls him a genius?

He has a system that tends to make qbs and wrs statistically productive. With the right players (preferrably on turf) his system can set records. It stinks for TEs and rbs that can't catch, tends to get qbs hit a lot, and leads to a lot of turnovers when things don't go just right.

I have heard a lot over the past few years of what a brilliant offensive mind he is. Maybe genius is overstating it, but obviously he garners a lot of respect around the league or he wouldn't keep getting hired. His system has put up numbers but hasn't been creating wins. As I stated it was very successful with the crew he had in St Louis, but it hasn't been nearly as successful in Detroit or SF, his last two stops, or his last two years in St Louis. It takes a lot of time to learn, requires the right personnel, and as you said, preferably a dome. It worked beautifully with the Warner/Bulger, Holt, Faulk, and Bruce combination, but hasn't been nearly as successful with anyone else.

You can probably count on one hand the number of head coaches that dramatically adjust their team to fit talent, not the other way around.How many offensive coordinators do you know that change the offense they run?

 

[twistd]

Martz's system and the Bears mentality are oil and water. I hated this signing when it happened, and despite swallowing an offseason's worth of hype, I still this as a one year

I agree with you, but what bothers me about this is I don't think the Bears skill position players are all that bad. Their offensive line is pretty bad. But I think in a more reasonable system they could be developing in to a decent offense. Olsen is good. Cutler can be good, but I think this system emphasizes his weaknesses, rather than his strengths. Forte and Taylor aren't going to make you forget Payton, but they could be solid. And I think the receiving core has potential. They have gone from a weakness to possibly developing in to a solid unit. Regardless of the system they will probably struggle with this line. But in a more conventional offense you could scheme to offset your protection problems to some degree. Keeping backs in to block, running screens and draws, there are things you can do. But in this Martz system I think it exposes their weaknesses, rather than enhance their strengths.

 

[Ace08]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.First year as a coach on a new team:1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 19982006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 20052008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

Detroit went from 5-11 in 2005 to 3-13 in 2006SF went from 7-9 in 2008 to 8-8 in 2009 And I would argue that the improvement was more Singletary as coach rather than Martz as OCSo my point is that although his teams score more points, they don't win more games. And as the Herm Edwards once said,"You play to win the games."

Who cares? When did this stop being a Fantasy football forum? Isn't that all we care about?

 

[RBM]

I think this offense has all the earmarks of a disaster for the Bears. And Martz, Lovie, Marinelli, and Angelo will all be gone after this season.

And thus the reason I was in favor of his hiring

 

[Raider Nation]

I think this offense has all the earmarks of a disaster for the Bears. And Martz, Lovie, Marinelli, and Angelo will all be gone after this season.

And thus the reason I was in favor of his hiring.

Looks like you're stuck with this crew for a while.

 

[That Little Voice]

I think this offense has all the earmarks of a disaster for the Bears. And Martz, Lovie, Marinelli, and Angelo will all be gone after this season.

And thus the reason I was in favor of his hiring.

Looks like you're stuck with this crew for a while.

Throw me a bone with a QB sneak on the goalline Martzy.

C'Mon Man!

 

[Widbil83]

Big fan of Martz's work so far. Of course when you are stuck with Ron Turner for 4 years anything is an upgrade.

 

[geoff8695]

I think this offense has all the earmarks of a disaster for the Bears. And Martz, Lovie, Marinelli, and Angelo will all be gone after this season.

And thus the reason I was in favor of his hiring.

Looks like you're stuck with this crew for a while.

Throw me a bone with a QB sneak on the goalline Martzy.

C'Mon Man!

Yeah no kidding! I thought he had learned his lesson and added one to the playbook as evidenced by Cutler's successful QB sneak in short yardage last week against Dallas. With a big strong QB like Cutler, the sneak is $$$ in the bank. Although in fairness the pass bounced off the TE's hands and there's no excuse for why the Bears came up empty in that situation. Still I want to see Cutler fall forward into the end zone rather than the play that they settled for.

 

[shnikies]

What's up with all the Martz bashing? The guy's doing pretty damn good with the most vile offensive line ever assembled. I don't think they have an offensive lineman that can be considered an above average starter in this league, that amazes me.

 

[FallenHero32]

I concur -- message is authentic.

What if Martz already surrendered and it's over, huh? We launch. He sees us, and he launches. Our birds pass each other in the air. Boom. What have you got?

Listen Martz, listen Martz, don't do this. Don't do this Martz, once we launch, they cannot come back. They cannot come back Martz, and you know the repercussions if we're wrong, #######it. Martz, if we fire now, we'll be firing when we're blind and crippled, you understand that?

 

[pizzatyme]

The difference between the Rams and anything since is the QB.

Some day people will realize that Kurt Warner was one of the greatest passers ever. His accuracy, decision making and quick release made it easy to run that offense.

I can think of about 15 QBs ever who could run it like he did.

Great players make great coaches.

 

[pizzatyme]

What's up with all the Martz bashing? The guy's doing pretty damn good with the most vile offensive line ever assembled. I don't think they have an offensive lineman that can be considered an above average starter in this league, that amazes me.

I would agree with this as well. That line is offensive!!!

 

[Widbil83]

What's up with all the Martz bashing? The guy's doing pretty damn good with the most vile offensive line ever assembled. I don't think they have an offensive lineman that can be considered an above average starter in this league, that amazes me.

This is why I feel good as a Bears fan. Not only are they winning and driving down the field with this crappy line with ease (team still sucks in the red zone). But to think of what can happen in the future with a decent line.

 

[basher]

What's up with all the Martz bashing? The guy's doing pretty damn good with the most vile offensive line ever assembled. I don't think they have an offensive lineman that can be considered an above average starter in this league, that amazes me.

This is why I feel good as a Bears fan. Not only are they winning and driving down the field with this crappy line with ease (team still sucks in the red zone). But to think of what can happen in the future with a decent line.

Only problem is Martz has a tendency to wear out his welcome before all the pieces get into place.

 

[reprisal]

What's up with all the Martz bashing? The guy's doing pretty damn good with the most vile offensive line ever assembled. I don't think they have an offensive lineman that can be considered an above average starter in this league, that amazes me.

This is why I feel good as a Bears fan. Not only are they winning and driving down the field with this crappy line with ease (team still sucks in the red zone). But to think of what can happen in the future with a decent line.

Only problem is Martz has a tendency to wear out his welcome before all the pieces get into place.

That and if Martz sticks around, that probably means Lovie and Jerry Angelo do too and Jerry's shown zero interest in building a decent line

 

[daveR]

Say what you want, but he's been able to put more points on the board.First year as a coach on a new team:1999 Rams as OC: +241 points vs 19982006 Lions as OC: +51 points vs 20052008 49ers as OC: +120 points vs 2007

From what I've seen, he does improve an offense's productivity. Whether or not that translates to team wins depends on a lot of factors, including schedule.Also, regarding "playing to one's strengths", if Cutler's arm and reading of defenses are not strengths, then you may as well give up now and start rebuilding.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

If Martz is so smart why doesnt he ever use the shotgun? seems silly and I think causes alot of sacks. 7 step drops were not getting it done last night