Miles Austin receiving yards (1 Viewer)

[zed2283]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.

Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?

Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

 

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

He got receiving yards up until the actual hold took place.

 

[Koya]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

 

[aesclepius]

That is usually the case. When a holding penalty is assessed on a kickoff, for example, it is a 10 yard penalty from where the infraction occurred, not 10 yards from where the kickoff was received.

 

[stedman]

I believe it was an illegal block in the back by M. Bennett after Austin caught the ball. The penalty was enforced from the spot of the foul.

 

[zed2283]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

So the penalty comes off of receiving/passing yards rather than be assessed as penalty yards? So those penalty yards aren't reflected in the box score? I've been watching football a long time and feel like I know the rules pretty well, but I had no idea that's how they rule those plays.

 

[Koya]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

So the penalty comes off of receiving/passing yards rather than be assessed as penalty yards? So those penalty yards aren't reflected in the box score? I've been watching football a long time and feel like I know the rules pretty well, but I had no idea that's how they rule those plays.

It should be 8 yards receiving to the WR, 8 yards passing to the QB, and -10 yards in penalties - unless I'm mistaken or missing something.

 

[zed2283]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

So the penalty comes off of receiving/passing yards rather than be assessed as penalty yards? So those penalty yards aren't reflected in the box score? I've been watching football a long time and feel like I know the rules pretty well, but I had no idea that's how they rule those plays.

It should be 8 yards receiving to the WR, 8 yards passing to the QB, and -10 yards in penalties - unless I'm mistaken or missing something.

So at the end of the game, the yards don't necessarily add up in the box score? Or am I looking at it wrong?

 

[GloryDaze]

Should he also get credited with a TD if it's called back for holding?

 

[VaTerp]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

So the penalty comes off of receiving/passing yards rather than be assessed as penalty yards? So those penalty yards aren't reflected in the box score? I've been watching football a long time and feel like I know the rules pretty well, but I had no idea that's how they rule those plays.

It should be 8 yards receiving to the WR, 8 yards passing to the QB, and -10 yards in penalties - unless I'm mistaken or missing something.

So at the end of the game, the yards don't necessarily add up in the box score? Or am I looking at it wrong?

I'm not sure what you mean by adding up in the box score.I think the simple way to look at it is this. Yards are assessed after the full result of the play. So if Austin or any other player catches what appears to be a 20 yard pass but a downfield holding penalty brings it back 12 yards then the net result is a 8 yard reception.It's as if the 20 yard play never happened b/c it was aided by an illegal play on his team. So for all intents and purposes it was an 8 yard pass for Romo and an 8 yard reception form Austin.

 

[zed2283]

Should he also get credited with a TD if it's called back for holding?

No, because there's no play. -10 yards in penalties and replay. That's why it becomes 1st and 20 or whatever.That's why I'm having trouble with this. Shouldn't it be 18 yards in receiving/passing and then -10 for the penalty for a net of 8 actual yards on the field?

 

[zed2283]

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

So the penalty comes off of receiving/passing yards rather than be assessed as penalty yards? So those penalty yards aren't reflected in the box score? I've been watching football a long time and feel like I know the rules pretty well, but I had no idea that's how they rule those plays.

It should be 8 yards receiving to the WR, 8 yards passing to the QB, and -10 yards in penalties - unless I'm mistaken or missing something.

So at the end of the game, the yards don't necessarily add up in the box score? Or am I looking at it wrong?

I'm not sure what you mean by adding up in the box score.I think the simple way to look at it is this. Yards are assessed after the full result of the play. So if Austin or any other player catches what appears to be a 20 yard pass but a downfield holding penalty brings it back 12 yards then the net result is a 8 yard reception.It's as if the 20 yard play never happened b/c it was aided by an illegal play on his team. So for all intents and purposes it was an 8 yard pass for Romo and an 8 yard reception form Austin.

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

 

[VaTerp]

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

What are you talking about? Penalty yard stats are independent of team or individual yard stats. It doesnt matter that you "saw" a 18 yard play. The penalty negated the play and the yardage.FF is really starting to warp some people's minds. You are really complicating something that isnt all that complex. All for the sake of another 1.2 points for your FF team. I thought I had problems.

 

[zed2283]

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

What are you talking about? Penalty yard stats are independent of team or individual yard stats. It doesnt matter that you "saw" a 18 yard play. The penalty negated the play and the yardage.FF is really starting to warp some people's minds. You are really complicating something that isnt all that complex. All for the sake of another 1.2 points for your FF team. I thought I had problems.

I don't really see what the problem is. It's not complicating things at all.I guess that's what my original question boils down to: are they independent? And I guess the answer is yes, but that really makes no sense. At the end of the day, all the yards should add up. That's coming from the fact that I'm an engineer, not the fact that I play fantasy football.

 

[Modog814]

It sort of adds up:

Going into the play Austin had 7 catches for 100 yards. On the play 1st and 10 from Dal 45, Austin catches a pass for 12 yards bringing it Wash 43. However, an Illegal block is called on Bennett at the Wash 47, thus those 4 yards are deemed to never have happened. So Austin is credited with a 8 yard catch (to the point of the foul), then 10 penalty yards are taken.

So in a way you're right, there is a hidden 4 yards missing from the box score, however this is no different than a RB busting a 90 yard run only to have it called back on holding at the LOS. A penalty on these types of plays activates the assumption that the defender would have made the stop had there been no foul.

 

[VaTerp]

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

What are you talking about? Penalty yard stats are independent of team or individual yard stats. It doesnt matter that you "saw" a 18 yard play. The penalty negated the play and the yardage.FF is really starting to warp some people's minds. You are really complicating something that isnt all that complex. All for the sake of another 1.2 points for your FF team. I thought I had problems.

I don't really see what the problem is. It's not complicating things at all.I guess that's what my original question boils down to: are they independent? And I guess the answer is yes, but that really makes no sense. At the end of the day, all the yards should add up. That's coming from the fact that I'm an engineer, not the fact that I play fantasy football.

Of course they are independent. If a guy runs for a 50 yard TD but its called back for holding at the line of scrimmage then it wouldnt be 50 yards of offense minus 10 for holding. Its 0 yards of offense and a 10 yard holding penalty.In effect its a 60 yard penalty but that's not how it's listed because it's a 10 yard penalty and the yards gained after the penalty occured are negated. They did not happen for all intents and purposes.I apologize if Im coming across the wrong way but it just seems to me that you are making something complicated that is really quite simple. Just because you "saw" a guy run for a certain amount of yardage doesnt mean those yards count when a penalty (and likely the reason he was able to run for those yards to begin with) makes the play null and void. That's why they replay the down. Because the play, and whatever yards you "saw" DO NOT COUNT.

 

[zed2283]

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

What are you talking about? Penalty yard stats are independent of team or individual yard stats. It doesnt matter that you "saw" a 18 yard play. The penalty negated the play and the yardage.FF is really starting to warp some people's minds. You are really complicating something that isnt all that complex. All for the sake of another 1.2 points for your FF team. I thought I had problems.

I don't really see what the problem is. It's not complicating things at all.I guess that's what my original question boils down to: are they independent? And I guess the answer is yes, but that really makes no sense. At the end of the day, all the yards should add up. That's coming from the fact that I'm an engineer, not the fact that I play fantasy football.

Of course they are independent. If a guy runs for a 50 yard TD but its called back for holding at the line of scrimmage then it wouldnt be 50 yards of offense minus 10 for holding. Its 0 yards of offense and a 10 yard holding penalty.In effect its a 60 yard penalty but that's not how it's listed because it's a 10 yard penalty and the yards gained after the penalty occured are negated. They did not happen for all intents and purposes.I apologize if Im coming across the wrong way but it just seems to me that you are making something complicated that is really quite simple. Just because you "saw" a guy run for a certain amount of yardage doesnt mean those yards count when a penalty (and likely the reason he was able to run for those yards to begin with) makes the play null and void. That's why they replay the down. Because the play, and whatever yards you "saw" DO NOT COUNT.

Well I guess I've never fully understood when holding penalties negate a play vs. when they don't (i.e. 1st and 8 or something like that). To me, the penalty you're talking about negates the play. There were 0 offensive yards and 10 penalty yards, so that makes it 1st and 20.

 

[Utter Chaos]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

This is probably what's causing the confusion. If the catch was for 20 yards and the penalty took place 8 yards down field then the 12 yards never happened. The 8 yards are receiving yards and from there, the ball is backed up another 10 yards for the penalty. So 1st and 10 now becomes 2 and 12. Eight receiving yards and 10 penalty yards for a net of -2 yards.

 

[GloryDaze]

On a 1st and 10 play, you saw an 8 yard gain, when a penalty occurred on the offense. Any yardage after the spot of the foul is 'dead' if the penalty is accepted. The 10 yard penalty was applied from the spot of the foul, resulting in a 1st and 12. I don't know how this doesn't add up for you.

 

[zed2283]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

This is probably what's causing the confusion. If the catch was for 20 yards and the penalty took place 8 yards down field then the 12 yards never happened. The 8 yards are receiving yards and from there, the ball is backed up another 10 yards for the penalty. So 1st and 10 now becomes 2 and 12. Eight receiving yards and 10 penalty yards for a net of -2 yards.

Ah, yeahhhhh. That's it. Now I get it.

 

[VaTerp]

Well, if I'm watching the play I see a gain of 18 yards for the offense, followed by a -10 yards for a penalty. The result is an 8-yard change in field possession. It seems to me that that should be reflected in the box score, rather than saying it was an 8-yard completion and -10 penalty yards (which doesn't add up).

What are you talking about? Penalty yard stats are independent of team or individual yard stats. It doesnt matter that you "saw" a 18 yard play. The penalty negated the play and the yardage.FF is really starting to warp some people's minds. You are really complicating something that isnt all that complex. All for the sake of another 1.2 points for your FF team. I thought I had problems.

I don't really see what the problem is. It's not complicating things at all.I guess that's what my original question boils down to: are they independent? And I guess the answer is yes, but that really makes no sense. At the end of the day, all the yards should add up. That's coming from the fact that I'm an engineer, not the fact that I play fantasy football.

Of course they are independent. If a guy runs for a 50 yard TD but its called back for holding at the line of scrimmage then it wouldnt be 50 yards of offense minus 10 for holding. Its 0 yards of offense and a 10 yard holding penalty.In effect its a 60 yard penalty but that's not how it's listed because it's a 10 yard penalty and the yards gained after the penalty occured are negated. They did not happen for all intents and purposes.I apologize if Im coming across the wrong way but it just seems to me that you are making something complicated that is really quite simple. Just because you "saw" a guy run for a certain amount of yardage doesnt mean those yards count when a penalty (and likely the reason he was able to run for those yards to begin with) makes the play null and void. That's why they replay the down. Because the play, and whatever yards you "saw" DO NOT COUNT.

Well I guess I've never fully understood when holding penalties negate a play vs. when they don't (i.e. 1st and 8 or something like that). To me, the penalty you're talking about negates the play. There were 0 offensive yards and 10 penalty yards, so that makes it 1st and 20.

Ok. I see how that could be confusing.As I understand it holding that occurs at or around the line of scrimmage is enforced from the previous spot which means where the ball was snapped. So if it was 1st and 10 you are now looking at 1st and 20.Holding downfield or on returns are enforced from the spot of the foul. This is what happened with the Austin play. So the officials deemed that he had legally gained 8 yards before the holding occured. It's still a 10 yard penalty but it's enforced from the spot of the foul and not the line of scrimmage.

 

[Utter Chaos]

Ok, so this is how I remember it from last night. M.Austin had 100 yards receiving when he caught about a 20-yard pass, that was brought back for holding during the run. On the next update it showed 108 yards receiving for Austin. He then made a couple more plays and ended up with 146.

Shouldn't the holding penalty go onto penalty yards? It shouldn't have come off his receiving yards, right? Or did I miss something, remember it wrong, etc.?

Did anyone else see this? My buddy also has Austin in another league and he thought he saw the same thing.

IIRC, a receiver gets the reception and the net positive yardage for holding calls that result in positive yardage overall. So, in the case you mention, the 10 yard penalty must have been assessed 18 yards into the reception and run, bringing the "total" back to 8 yards, which is correct.

This is probably what's causing the confusion. If the catch was for 20 yards and the penalty took place 8 yards down field then the 12 yards never happened. The 8 yards are receiving yards and from there, the ball is backed up another 10 yards for the penalty. So 1st and 10 now becomes 2 and 12. Eight receiving yards and 10 penalty yards for a net of -2 yards.

Or would it be 1st and 12?