Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (3 Viewers)

[VikingFrog]

As feared although the Vikings may have a better defensive coordinator they do not have the personnel to play defense well.

Many 3 safety personnel packages and too often only playing one or two defensive linemen.

This is by design. That is the plan.

No surprise the Eagles ran the ball all over the Vikings and think their offensive line is better than it is (not saying its not good) when they get to double team the few defensive linemen by default and no one covering the free offensive linemen who get to overmatch the LB or safeties responsible for those gaps.

And again this is by design. This is the plan. From the GM on down.

Analytics gone off the rails here. Running the ball is inefficient so lets just invite opposing teams to run the ball more and have the offense outscore them right?

Well the offense never gets the ball because opposing teams can run at will and control the clock.

Yes the turnovers are a contributing factor in this and I am shocked that the score was as close as it was under these circumstances.

But the Vikings are fooling themselves to think their plan is going to work. Running the ball is not inefficient against weak fronts the Vikings are putting out there and bend but dont break is taking an even bigger step backwards with these alignments.

There was a moment in last night’s game where the announcer said it was like a game of chicken.

The eagles kept running and the Vikings kept dropping guys back into coverage and letting them gash them for 5+ yards.

Never changed until they scored.

Well yeah. This was the plan. KOC says in post game interview that they wanted the Eagles to run the ball on 1st 2nd and 3rd down.

So why wouldnt they do that when this is what you are giving them by design?

I truly hate this weak "plan" I cant believe the GM and coaches are this dumb and expect the fans to think this is a way to win football games? Saying uncle every snap? Not even trying to stop anything but explosive plays?

Whats the point?

And still get burned by Davante Smith twice for explosive plays that were not stopped. Hurts had 193 yards. And something like 130 of those to Smith on two plays.

 

[Biabreakable]

As feared although the Vikings may have a better defensive coordinator they do not have the personnel to play defense well.

Many 3 safety personnel packages and too often only playing one or two defensive linemen.

This is by design. That is the plan.

No surprise the Eagles ran the ball all over the Vikings and think their offensive line is better than it is (not saying its not good) when they get to double team the few defensive linemen by default and no one covering the free offensive linemen who get to overmatch the LB or safeties responsible for those gaps.

And again this is by design. This is the plan. From the GM on down.

Analytics gone off the rails here. Running the ball is inefficient so lets just invite opposing teams to run the ball more and have the offense outscore them right?

Well the offense never gets the ball because opposing teams can run at will and control the clock.

Yes the turnovers are a contributing factor in this and I am shocked that the score was as close as it was under these circumstances.

But the Vikings are fooling themselves to think their plan is going to work. Running the ball is not inefficient against weak fronts the Vikings are putting out there and bend but dont break is taking an even bigger step backwards with these alignments.

There was a moment in last night’s game where the announcer said it was like a game of chicken.

The eagles kept running and the Vikings kept dropping guys back into coverage and letting them gash them for 5+ yards.

Never changed until they scored.

Well yeah. This was the plan. KOC says in post game interview that they wanted the Eagles to run the ball on 1st 2nd and 3rd down.

So why wouldnt they do that when this is what you are giving them by design?

I truly hate this weak "plan" I cant believe the GM and coaches are this dumb and expect the fans to think this is a way to win football games? Saying uncle every snap? Not even trying to stop anything but explosive plays?

Whats the point?

And still get burned by Davante Smith twice for explosive plays that were not stopped. Hurts had 193 yards. And something like 130 of those to Smith on two plays.

KOC also says he wanted to force the Eagles to execute their running game all 3 downs, which is just another way of saying we hope they might mess up at some point and we can get a stop because of that.

Its so passive and just not even trying in my view.

If all you want to do is play offense and you are going to allow the opposing team to have favorable match ups like that by design you might as well just let them score fast to get the ball back sooner instead.

I hate it.

 

[snogger]

Akers eh? :... The Mattison experiment was short lived

 

[mr roboto]

Hmmm… I still don’t believe it wasnt really Mattisons fault

 

[Donnybrook]

I said as soon as he was available that KOC hasn’t meet a former RAM he didn’t like.

 

[Biabreakable]

At least they are doing some things.

Thats all I got.

 

[Biabreakable]

Well so much for the competitive rebuild. Keep trying and still tank for a high pick to use on QB next season now?

I still haven't watched the 2nd half of the game yet. Not sure if I want to.

 

[snogger]

Offensive play calling is just that.. Offensive.. 4th quarter, need a TD. 3rd down and 4.. All receivers run go routes of 10+ WTF????
The OL sucks.. Yet when you know the defense is coming, you decide to have Kirk sit in the pocket and wait for deep routes to complete

Then, after a STUPID decision by the other coach to go for it on their own 24, you get a first down with 27 seconds left. But instead of clocking it to setup a play, you waste almost 20 seconds, rush the play and lose.
100% of this loss goes on the coach.
Jefferson might decide it was a good thing not to sign an extension if the Coaches continue to call crap.

 

[J Giles Band]

Probably too much of a Homer but I'm looking forward to this season.
The offense is built to light up the scoreboard and I felt the defense had talent last year, held back by an idiot "defensive" coach who thought bend don't break was a winning formula in the NFL.

I know everyone is in love with the Lions, I'm just not seeing it so feel the Vikings win the division.. Looking at the schedule I could see them winning 13 to 14.

This... didn't age well.

 

[snogger]

Probably too much of a Homer but I'm looking forward to this season.
The offense is built to light up the scoreboard and I felt the defense had talent last year, held back by an idiot "defensive" coach who thought bend don't break was a winning formula in the NFL.

I know everyone is in love with the Lions, I'm just not seeing it so feel the Vikings win the division.. Looking at the schedule I could see them winning 13 to 14.

This... didn't age well.

with better coaching, and not bleeping turning the ball over multiple times each game they could be 2-1, or even 3-0..
All have been close, they are just ending up on the losing side of one score games, whereas last year they were on the winning side.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

This team was not very good last year despite their record. This year is the regression to the mean with their 0-3 record in one score games (I believe they were 10-0 on one score games last year). JJ is elite, Hockenson is very good, and Kirk is decent, but the rest of the offense is pretty JAGgy. The defense is atrocious.

Since they are the Vikings they will still win 7 meaningless games just to ensure they have the worst draft pick they can get.

 

[Biabreakable]

Probably too much of a Homer but I'm looking forward to this season.
The offense is built to light up the scoreboard and I felt the defense had talent last year, held back by an idiot "defensive" coach who thought bend don't break was a winning formula in the NFL.

I know everyone is in love with the Lions, I'm just not seeing it so feel the Vikings win the division.. Looking at the schedule I could see them winning 13 to 14.

This... didn't age well.

with better coaching, and not bleeping turning the ball over multiple times each game they could be 2-1, or even 3-0..
All have been close, they are just ending up on the losing side of one score games, whereas last year they were on the winning side.

What they did last season was lucky and unsustainable.

What is the point of winning a lot of regular season games when the defense cannot play well enough to stop any one which means they lose in the playoffs for sure when they play against the best TEAMs?

This isn't a team its an offense, and even their offense has a lot of flaws as you talk about in your post yesterday. Its become completely one sided and all the investment is going into keeping the offense good while the defense keeps getting worse.

The competitive rebuild was arguably bad for the progress of the team. It caused them to have late draft picks and to give the fan base high expectations for a team that almost certainly was not going to improve from that high point. It was somewhat self serving. The new GM and Head Coach taking the team that previous regime built and winning more games with it. Meanwhile they haven't really done much to improve the team much on their own. Its all smoke and mirrors.

This team is a paper tiger and look out of they can't convince Jefferson to sign a new deal.

 

[snogger]

There was another play that had me in the3rd or 4th quarter. It was something like 3rd and goal from the 5.
They called a roll-out.. Good..
But what sucked was everyone (qb, rb, 3 wr's) ALL went right.
It was a cluster bleep with 10+ players all jammed together, which of course led to an incompletion.

No crossing routes, or drop a TE or RB to the other side... just move everyone the same way..

 

[snogger]

That pick Cousins threw in the 1st quarter was something a rookie does, not a veteran. I have no idea wtf he was thinking. Osborn was clearly covered
And once again stupid play calling.... 3 receivers, all in the same Area, all 3 running the same routes, just a few yards apart..

Luckily for the Vikings they were playing the Panthers, so they managed to get the first win out of the way.

Next week .. KC and the Swifties

 

[Biabreakable]

It helped to finally get Davenport in the lineup. He made plays.

I was also happy they finally unleseahed Harrison Smith as an edge rusher. He has always been good at this. He may not have the speed to cover as well as he once did anyways at this point of his career. Why not let him do what he does best?

Of course the Panthers offense not being good made this defense look better. Their QB holds the ball too long and they dont block well, but nice to see the defense actually be able to take advantage of that.

Keep it coming. Mahomes is great and the Vikings likely have no answers for Kelce, but their receivers are nothing special. Maybe this defense can actually get some pressure on Mahomes?

That said the defensive backs are not good so they will likely make KC receivers look better than they have been.

I think its time for Risner to take over at right guard for Ingram. Hes not good.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

 

[snogger]

I'm not one normally to blame the refs but.. COME ON MAN!!

I can give a pass on the hands to the face, those get missed.

I'll give a pass on pass interference, but how is that not illegal contact?

But 2 refs not tossing the flag for taking his helmet off on the field is

 

[Donnybrook]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

We can be the new Panthers with a plan like that.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

So you trust this management with the draft? Please tell me what gives you that confidence.

 

[TapRackBang]

So far, Kwesi was right about Theilen and Cook. Overpaid for their remaining talent.

However, they were both leaders in the lockerroom. As was E. Kendricks (LB). Now they're all gone, cuz....math and stuff.

After that, Kwesi has bombed his drafts. Spielman at least got lucky and could pick defensive players quite well.

Cousins will be gone next year. JJ looks completely angered and disinterested in the games. If he leaves, this team is in a full rebuild.
Which maybe they will be anyway, and if that's the case, do you trade JJ for a mountain of picks? I don't know. This team doesn't have a very bright future.
I'm not sold on KOC either. He wants to be everybody's friend.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

We can be the new Panthers with a plan lik thee that.

Their plan wouldn't have looked so bad had they picked the right QB.

 

[Biabreakable]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

So you trust this management with the draft? Please tell me what gives you that confidence.

While I dont have a lot of confidence in the staffs management of the draft or free agency so far, I do think one way or another they are going to need to acquire a QBOTF. The GM and HC jobs will be tied to that QBs success and if its a rookie this will buy them some time while that QB gets a chance to develop.

While I would much rather the team keep JJ to help with this new QBs development I do worry that they may not be able to retain Jefferson anyways.

Remember how Randy Moss, Stefon Diggs and Percy Harvin all forced their way out of Minnesota? Its possible something similar may happen with Jefferson if he does not believe in the direction of this team. Jefferson seems like a nice man and he has said all the right things as far as I have heard. Supporting Kirk Cousins when he has been under a lot of criticism. and in general behaving like a professional team player. Maybe this concern about Jefferson is incorrect. Perhaps this worry is influenced by what has happened with these key Vikings WR in the past. The most recent one Diggs being traded is the reason the Vikings got lucky enough to end up with Jefferson in the first place. There is no way for any of us to know. The GM and HC should know which way Jefferson is leaning about this though by now already. The only thing we do know is that the team tried to sign him to a contract extension and those talks broke down. We dont know the reasons why those talks broke down though. We also don't know how Jefferson will feel about playing with a rookie QB next season, and how he feels about that may have some bearing on if he wants to be a part of the Vikings or not.

Of course they could always franchise tag Jefferson. This would be expensive, but a new contract for him should be similarly expensive as well. I just worry about doing that if this means there is bad blood and discontent from Jefferson if they did go that route.

If they were going to trade Jefferson I would expect the Vikings to get a very good return for trading him. If they do that then the Vikings may as well trade Cousins as well. Cousins will be a free agent next season and as a older player will not fetch that much in return, but I imagine they could get something substantial for him from a team that needs a QB. Perhaps the Jets? Not sure what other teams consider themselves to be good if they could just improve their QB play.

If the Vikings did get rid of Cousins and Jefferson, they will lose a lot of games. They are doing a good job of losing a lot of games with them right now. The Vikings might put themselves in a position to get a top 5 pick out of their own selection if they did that. Then whatever they got in trades could be used to improve other parts of the team like the offensive and defensive lines.

 

[3 hour lunch]

Not onboard with trading JJ. They are just losing the close games this year, and turning it over so much…..

 

[Biabreakable]

Not onboard with trading JJ. They are just losing the close games this year, and turning it over so much…..

I don't want the Vikings to trade him either. Hell I didn't want them to trade Randy Moss or Stefon Diggs either, but they forced the Vikings hand.

If the Vikings do trade Jefferson I think the reason they do will be because of something similar. If Jefferson does not want to be part of the Vikings future like Diggs then they should get the best offer they can for him and skip the drama.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

His contact will also approach $35m/year. I don't think that's a good use of cap space.

 

[Donnybrook]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

We can be the new Panthers with a plan lik thee that.

Their plan wouldn't have looked so bad had they picked the right QB.

Not much chances of that. We have a Princeston commodities trader as a GM who hired Ryan Grimson as his head of player personnel.

 

[Donnybrook]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

We can be the new Panthers with a plan lik thee that.

Their plan wouldn't have looked so bad had they picked the right QB.

Not much chances of that. We have a Princeston commodities trader as a GM who hired Ryan Grimson as his head of player personnel.

Sorry I thought you were implying that Vikings could make the right decision given the choice.

That said, I think Caleb is way overhyped.

 

[TheAristocrat]

Cool story. The team is so good. Kirk is perfect. We don't blame him because we can't. He's just too average to complain.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Cool story. The team is so good. Kirk is perfect. We don't blame him because we can't. He's just too average to complain.

Kirk is always the fall guy.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

So you trust this management with the draft? Please tell me what gives you that confidence.

This take is spot on. Whether they are 13-4 winning one score games or 1-5 losing them, this team isn't built to beat well-constructed teams. It's just a reality. Largely, that is due to whiffing in drafts - both the last several years under Spielman's or the first couple under Kwesi.

Fact: The 2023 defense has just one impact player drafted by the Vikings after 2015 (Hunter).
Fact: The Vikings have had a miserable interior OL since at least 2010. It seems longer.
Fact: You can't realistically groom a QBOTF behind this OL, which I suppose is not an immediate issue since they also haven't identified one since 1999 (Culpepper).

It's depressing. I don't know how a team fires all scouts/personnel - but if we're looking for the root of the problem, you almost need to start there. You need to have people with a fundamental understanding of what positions are crucial to NFL success, who can also identify players to fill those positions. The Vikes have neither. A JJ trade well could translate into drafting the next Troy Williamson/Cine/Booth. I've seen nothing to hope it would translate into filling actual needs to build from, successfully.

 

[Kiddnets]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You guys have me there. I was the conductor of the Fire Spielman Train and am at least on the What Up With KAM Train.

I still can't believe they hired someone from the Browns organization.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have had a dose of reality for 60+ years.

 

[Biabreakable]

I'm being serious here... the Vikes should consider trading JJ to get the ammo to trade up to #1. He's leaving anyhow I think .

Give Arizona a call

We can be the new Panthers with a plan lik thee that.

Their plan wouldn't have looked so bad had they picked the right QB.

Not much chances of that. We have a Princeston commodities trader as a GM who hired Ryan Grimson as his head of player personnel.

I forgot he hired Grigson which was another head scratcher to me based on his management with the Colts. Yuck.

 

[Biabreakable]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Vikings do seem to have hit on Addison. The trade for Hockenson seems ok but expensive. I cant help but feel the Hockenson decision is somewhat tied to marketing. He looks so much like the Vikings logo. He is ok. Not sure he is worth what they are paying him though. Also not sure if Addison could handle being the top WR without Jefferson or not.

But these are some good things the new regime has done to improve the team.

A lot more than that is needed. But it isnt a complete failure.

 

[BigJim®]

The Vikings do seem to have hit on Addison. The trade for Hockenson seems ok but expensive. I cant help but feel the Hockenson decision is somewhat tied to marketing. He looks so much like the Vikings logo. He is ok. Not sure he is worth what they are paying him though. Also not sure if Addison could handle being the top WR without Jefferson or not.

But these are some good things the new regime has done to improve the team.

A lot more than that is needed. But it isnt a complete failure.

I guess my question would be whether these are moves that makes this team an actual contender? That is, does using a 1st on Addison, and a 2nd/huge $ on Hockenson solve the things this team must solve to compete (not compete with other also ran teams, compete with SF/Philly)? I don't know, they seem like immature moves to me, almost FF-ish, and lacking understanding that real improvement may not be sexy. It's just perpetuation of middling NFL status.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The Vikings do seem to have hit on Addison. The trade for Hockenson seems ok but expensive. I cant help but feel the Hockenson decision is somewhat tied to marketing. He looks so much like the Vikings logo. He is ok. Not sure he is worth what they are paying him though. Also not sure if Addison could handle being the top WR without Jefferson or not.

But these are some good things the new regime has done to improve the team.

A lot more than that is needed. But it isnt a complete failure.

I guess my question would be whether these are moves that makes this team an actual contender? That is, does using a 1st on Addison, and a 2nd/huge $ on Hockenson solve the things this team must solve to compete (not compete with other also ran teams, compete with SF/Philly)? I don't know, they seem like immature moves to me, almost FF-ish, and lacking understanding that real improvement may not be sexy. It's just perpetuation of middling NFL status.

I think they need to pick an identity and go with it. I think the easiest way to transform your franchise is on the OL and DL. Darrisaw and Oneal seem fine, but they need 3 more interior linemen. The defensive line is forgettable. I know that it is blasphemy to say bad things about Hunter, but he is not a game changer/wrecker. His sack numbers always look good, but he does not disrupt a game like someone getting paid his salary should/could.

 

[Biabreakable]

The Vikings do seem to have hit on Addison. The trade for Hockenson seems ok but expensive. I cant help but feel the Hockenson decision is somewhat tied to marketing. He looks so much like the Vikings logo. He is ok. Not sure he is worth what they are paying him though. Also not sure if Addison could handle being the top WR without Jefferson or not.

But these are some good things the new regime has done to improve the team.

A lot more than that is needed. But it isnt a complete failure.

I guess my question would be whether these are moves that makes this team an actual contender? That is, does using a 1st on Addison, and a 2nd/huge $ on Hockenson solve the things this team must solve to compete (not compete with other also ran teams, compete with SF/Philly)? I don't know, they seem like immature moves to me, almost FF-ish, and lacking understanding that real improvement may not be sexy. It's just perpetuation of middling NFL status.

Yes I agree with you and I know we see eye to eye on most of how a team should be developed, through the offensive and defensive line.

That certainly has been the root of this team prior to Denny Green, which is such a long time ago now, but even he drafted and developed some good offensive line players while he was in charge. It was the defensive line where several 1st round picks were invested, but they were busts or mediocre.

For whatever reason the team has gotten away from that and this team is approaching rock bottom now in terms of talent compared to previous rosters.

The end of Spielmans drafts did not bring much, although I do think ONeil, Darrisaw and Jefferson were good picks. After focusing on defense in the first few years with Zimmer as the HC the defense was good for awhile there, and Spielman shifted focus to fixing the offensive line which had some hits but also big misses in Bradbury. The problem was the defense got not enough attention while doing that, and some bust picks there as well, then former stars became bad players and got old.

I think I have said before I thought the trade for Hockenson was impulsive. It was to make the offense last season better, so they could keep squeeking out wins in the short term, but not really addressing a long term need.

The Addison pick, which I am ok with is more of the same. They are trying to stack the offense at expense of the defense, and the defensive picks have not panned out.

 

[Kiddnets]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

Good stuff

Not sure what the options are - I think Kirk is their best option by far. They can win with him. Id like to see a compromise where they do a 3 years deal. If the team isnt in a better state they draft a rookie in 2 yrs to replace him. If they dump or trade him now I dont see JJ signing an extension to play with a rookie in his prime years

 

[SayWhat?]

Agree with others that they’ve just not built the interior lines sufficiently to produce a comfort level as that base foundation for a consistent team. I’m ok with using a late 1st on a WR, if you feel that WR is a plug and play starter for the next 10 years. Seems to me that Addison might be that. Fingers crossed, at least.

But the decision to trade a 2nd for Hock midway through his last season under contract and handcuff yourself into paying a (not materially impactful to wins and losses) TE $16M+ per year was unwise IMO. That’s where you grab a LaPorta, Musgrave, etc and use that extra $15M at far more important positions.

 

[Biabreakable]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

Good stuff

Not sure what the options are - I think Kirk is their best option by far. They can win with him. Id like to see a compromise where they do a 3 years deal. If the team isnt in a better state they draft a rookie in 2 yrs to replace him. If they dump or trade him now I dont see JJ signing an extension to play with a rookie in his prime years

I do think this is part of the decision regarding Jefferson.

I can only speculate, but the team not commiting to Cousins may be part of why an extension for Jefferson didnt get done.

While I agree with Andys point about Jefferson being very expensive, and perhaps not the best way to allocate cap space, at the same time I think Jefferson is well worth the market cost. He is by far the Vikings best player.

I sure would rather be paying Jefferson whatever the market price is for him than to be paying Hockenson what they paid him. As far as budgeting the cap, these things are related to each other.

Which is something the GM needed to account for when they made the decision to trade for Hockenson.

As an outsider looking at that it seems short sighted. A decision made in the moment for how Hockenson helped them win a few games last year rather than looking at the long term implications of it.

I hate the idea of paying Hockenson so much money possibly meaning they cant afford Jefferson. Or that they cant afford Jefferson and Cousins to keep Jefferson with the team.

This is what makes me think they will try to save money by getting a rookie QB. They have to cut corners somewhere. Addison may be part of that budgeting as well.

I dont know how Jefferson feels about this as far as playing with a rookie QB instead of Kirk. It may be a deal breaker for Jefferson or maybe not. I dont know.

I just know they failed to extend Jefferson.

 

[Kiddnets]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

Good stuff

Not sure what the options are - I think Kirk is their best option by far. They can win with him. Id like to see a compromise where they do a 3 years deal. If the team isnt in a better state they draft a rookie in 2 yrs to replace him. If they dump or trade him now I dont see JJ signing an extension to play with a rookie in his prime years

I do think this is part of the decision regarding Jefferson.

I can only speculate, but the team not commiting to Cousins may be part of why an extension for Jefferson didnt get done.

While I agree with Andys point about Jefferson being very expensive, and perhaps not the best way to allocate cap space, at the same time I think Jefferson is well worth the market cost. He is by far the Vikings best player.

I sure would rather be paying Jefferson whatever the market price is for him than to be paying Hockenson what they paid him. As far as budgeting the cap, these things are related to each other.

Which is something the GM needed to account for when they made the decision to trade for Hockenson.

As an outsider looking at that it seems short sighted. A decision made in the moment for how Hockenson helped them win a few games last year rather than looking at the long term implications of it.

I hate the idea of paying Hockenson so much money possibly meaning they cant afford Jefferson. Or that they cant afford Jefferson and Cousins to keep Jefferson with the team.

This is what makes me think they will try to save money by getting a rookie QB. They have to cut corners somewhere. Addison may be part of that budgeting as well.

I dont know how Jefferson feels about this as far as playing with a rookie QB instead of Kirk. It may be a deal breaker for Jefferson or maybe not. I dont know.

I just know they failed to extend Jefferson.

agreed - I dont know if JJ is a huge fan of Kirk but doubt he wants to play with a rookie either.

Great point on Hock - didnt realize he was at $14M cap hit for next year....thats a lot for a TE

They have over $60M in cap space next year - signing Kirk to a 3-4 yr deal will be pricey but with bonuses and void years they should be able to still have money left over to sign JJ to an extension as his cap hit is $19M next year. An extension could lower that as well - so it can be done.

Lastly - if they finish poorly do they really give this new regime a chance to complete reset with a rookie QB? That buys them at least 2 more years....

 

[Biabreakable]

The Vikings do seem to have hit on Addison. The trade for Hockenson seems ok but expensive. I cant help but feel the Hockenson decision is somewhat tied to marketing. He looks so much like the Vikings logo. He is ok. Not sure he is worth what they are paying him though. Also not sure if Addison could handle being the top WR without Jefferson or not.

But these are some good things the new regime has done to improve the team.

A lot more than that is needed. But it isnt a complete failure.

I guess my question would be whether these are moves that makes this team an actual contender? That is, does using a 1st on Addison, and a 2nd/huge $ on Hockenson solve the things this team must solve to compete (not compete with other also ran teams, compete with SF/Philly)? I don't know, they seem like immature moves to me, almost FF-ish, and lacking understanding that real improvement may not be sexy. It's just perpetuation of middling NFL status.

I think they need to pick an identity and go with it. I think the easiest way to transform your franchise is on the OL and DL. Darrisaw and Oneal seem fine, but they need 3 more interior linemen. The defensive line is forgettable. I know that it is blasphemy to say bad things about Hunter, but he is not a game changer/wrecker. His sack numbers always look good, but he does not disrupt a game like someone getting paid his salary should/could.

Hunter is the best they have. I do think he was more impactful in Zimmers defense than he has been with the new defenses.

I am not sure if he is miscast in the 3-4 or not He played in a 3-4 in college and he played as a DE not as an Edge LB in that scheme.

Part of the reason the Vikings were able to get Hunter in the 3rd round is that he did not have sack numbers in college.

Zimmer unlocked Hunters ability as a pass rusher that I think was always there but did not show up in terms of sacks in college. Zimmer had Hunter play standing up at times like an outside LB in their 4-3 defense so its not like what he is doing now is different for him, its that the defensive scheme around him has changed.

Hunter being the biggest threat the Vikings defense has means more double teams and teams doing things to prevent Hunter from making an impact.

Although there were not great players as supporting cast under Zimmer really, Brian Robison an over achiever, only stop gap under tackle play from some free agents, the scheme did create more one on one situations for Hunter than the scheme does now.

They need more impact players. I think Hunter is still good just not as good as he was under the previous scheme.

Maybe he is not worth his contract, but what else do they have? You have to start somewhere and he is a caliber of player not easily replaced. Soon he will be too old and will fade just as all the other former stars have.

They need new talent to step up. Where is it?

 

[Biabreakable]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

Good stuff

Not sure what the options are - I think Kirk is their best option by far. They can win with him. Id like to see a compromise where they do a 3 years deal. If the team isnt in a better state they draft a rookie in 2 yrs to replace him. If they dump or trade him now I dont see JJ signing an extension to play with a rookie in his prime years

I do think this is part of the decision regarding Jefferson.

I can only speculate, but the team not commiting to Cousins may be part of why an extension for Jefferson didnt get done.

While I agree with Andys point about Jefferson being very expensive, and perhaps not the best way to allocate cap space, at the same time I think Jefferson is well worth the market cost. He is by far the Vikings best player.

I sure would rather be paying Jefferson whatever the market price is for him than to be paying Hockenson what they paid him. As far as budgeting the cap, these things are related to each other.

Which is something the GM needed to account for when they made the decision to trade for Hockenson.

As an outsider looking at that it seems short sighted. A decision made in the moment for how Hockenson helped them win a few games last year rather than looking at the long term implications of it.

I hate the idea of paying Hockenson so much money possibly meaning they cant afford Jefferson. Or that they cant afford Jefferson and Cousins to keep Jefferson with the team.

This is what makes me think they will try to save money by getting a rookie QB. They have to cut corners somewhere. Addison may be part of that budgeting as well.

I dont know how Jefferson feels about this as far as playing with a rookie QB instead of Kirk. It may be a deal breaker for Jefferson or maybe not. I dont know.

I just know they failed to extend Jefferson.

agreed - I dont know if JJ is a huge fan of Kirk but doubt he wants to play with a rookie either.

Great point on Hock - didnt realize he was at $14M cap hit for next year....thats a lot for a TE

They have over $60M in cap space next year - signing Kirk to a 3-4 yr deal will be pricey but with bonuses and void years they should be able to still have money left over to sign JJ to an extension as his cap hit is $19M next year. An extension could lower that as well - so it can be done.

Lastly - if they finish poorly do they really give this new regime a chance to complete reset with a rookie QB? That buys them at least 2 more years....

Yeah I do think they can find the money to sign Kirk and Jefferson if they want to. Maybe that has been the plan all along, including when they traded for Hockenson.

They definitely seem to want to load up on offense and if all of these contracts happen thats what they will be.

I havent looked at cap numbers but maybe they are willing to allocate 70% to the offense. Such a plan would not surprise me.

Can they get the players to agree to sign to be part of such a plan?

I dont know.

Does such a plan make them a good TEAM?

I dont think so. It makes them a good offense maybe, but not a team.

 

[Kiddnets]

Viking fans are about to get a dose of reality - as a Jets fan praying for an even average QB for decades, believe me the grass in QB purgatory is not always greener. The Vikes can absolutely win with Kirk. Fix that Ol and defense before tossing a very good QB to the curb.

Pretty sure us Vikings fans have has a dose of reality for 60+ years.

Yeah its been retread after retread QBs aside from Culpepper who got injured relatively early in his career. Ponder BUST. Teddy injured early in his career.

Kirk has been the best QB they have had since Brad Johnson aside from one epic year from Favre and one epic year from Cunningham.

The QB turnstile has been propped up by great WRs. Carter and Moss, then Diggs and Thielen. Who have all been good enough to make the QBs they have had look better than they were.

DIggs, Thielen and Jefferson have certainly helped Kirk, but sure he has been durable and better than most if not all of these other QBs.

But Kirk is not under contract next season, and he could be if that were the plan. Kirk is not cheap and no extension signals they plan to go another direction at QB than him next season though.

Kirk wants a long term contract and the Vikings do not want to be tied to him at his price long term. So seems pretty clear to me they intend to go with someone else in 2024. Either a free agent or through the draft.

They might be open to giving Kirk a 1 year deal as a bridge QB but I dont think Kirk wants that.

So there they are. They need to make a decision before the trade deadline if they can get something better than projected compensation pick for him I think.

The owners and fans wanted a GM and HC that was more focused on the offensive side of the ball than Zimmer. To have some continuity in developing a QBOTF and there are some merits to that approach. This is what they have now.

Good stuff

Not sure what the options are - I think Kirk is their best option by far. They can win with him. Id like to see a compromise where they do a 3 years deal. If the team isnt in a better state they draft a rookie in 2 yrs to replace him. If they dump or trade him now I dont see JJ signing an extension to play with a rookie in his prime years

I do think this is part of the decision regarding Jefferson.

I can only speculate, but the team not commiting to Cousins may be part of why an extension for Jefferson didnt get done.

While I agree with Andys point about Jefferson being very expensive, and perhaps not the best way to allocate cap space, at the same time I think Jefferson is well worth the market cost. He is by far the Vikings best player.

I sure would rather be paying Jefferson whatever the market price is for him than to be paying Hockenson what they paid him. As far as budgeting the cap, these things are related to each other.

Which is something the GM needed to account for when they made the decision to trade for Hockenson.

As an outsider looking at that it seems short sighted. A decision made in the moment for how Hockenson helped them win a few games last year rather than looking at the long term implications of it.

I hate the idea of paying Hockenson so much money possibly meaning they cant afford Jefferson. Or that they cant afford Jefferson and Cousins to keep Jefferson with the team.

This is what makes me think they will try to save money by getting a rookie QB. They have to cut corners somewhere. Addison may be part of that budgeting as well.

I dont know how Jefferson feels about this as far as playing with a rookie QB instead of Kirk. It may be a deal breaker for Jefferson or maybe not. I dont know.

I just know they failed to extend Jefferson.

agreed - I dont know if JJ is a huge fan of Kirk but doubt he wants to play with a rookie either.

Great point on Hock - didnt realize he was at $14M cap hit for next year....thats a lot for a TE

They have over $60M in cap space next year - signing Kirk to a 3-4 yr deal will be pricey but with bonuses and void years they should be able to still have money left over to sign JJ to an extension as his cap hit is $19M next year. An extension could lower that as well - so it can be done.

Lastly - if they finish poorly do they really give this new regime a chance to complete reset with a rookie QB? That buys them at least 2 more years....

Yeah I do think they can find the money to sign Kirk and Jefferson if they want to. Maybe that has been the plan all along, including when they traded for Hockenson.

They definitely seem to want to load up on offense and if all of these contracts happen thats what they will be.

I havent looked at cap numbers but maybe they are willing to allocate 70% to the offense. Such a plan would not surprise me.

Can they get the players to agree to sign to be part of such a plan?

I dont know.

Does such a plan make them a good TEAM?

I dont think so. It makes them a good offense maybe, but not a team.

we'll see - its an offensive league. Im a jets fan and they go defense all the time and it hasnt led to much. I think its much easier to put together a defense that can keep you in games than a franchise QB/Wr combo

 

[Biabreakable]

Well the 49ers seem like a great team right now and what they have done is focused more on their defense I think with Lynch as the GM.

But they have Shanahan JR who seems to have been able to bring his dads wide zone offense with him. Lots of teams have tried to do this but Im not sure if any of them run it as well as him and his dad has.

Not that they havent used picks on their offense, they have. But they seem to be a team that stays focused on both and maybe leaning more to the defensive side of the ball than the offense while relying on their scheme more to be good on offense.

They did sign Trent Williams to help their offensive line transition from Staley getting old and they did have a foundation of good players there from previous management, but I think the scheme helps their offensive line to perform better as a unit than the talent of the idividual parts.

Then they traded for McCaffrey, taking their running game to an even higher level.

I think they are an example of a team doing it right even though they have had picks that didnt work out.

Its not easy to develop a balanced team. Teams can focus on making one side of the ball great, then switch to improving the other side after that is accomplished, but by the time that develops the other side is old.

This is kind of where the Vikings are at right now. They had a good defense for a few years but after shifting focus to the offense the defense started to fall apart by the time the offense improved a bit. Teams still need to keep reloading both sides of the ball to become a good team on both sides of the ball.

Its quite a juggling act really and maybe a bit of luck is needed for a team to become good on both sides of the ball.

 

[Donnybrook]

I would like to see Purdy, Geno or Baker win the superbowl. The media seems to over selling that only QB royalty can win in the playoffs. I suspect the giant contracts have hamstrung these teams more than we suspect.

As for JJ, I would only trade him if he is insisting on choosing the future QB. He is a player not the GM.

 

[Biabreakable]

Reviewing the game after a somewhat ugly win, but hey a win is a win. Some things I was impressed with were:

DJ Wonnum. He made multiple plays in this game getting pressure on Fields. Although I don't think he is a great player he does seem to be a good player, and someone Spielman and the previous staff found as a later round pick who has developed into a contributor. Extending the success rate of these later round picks at pass rusher. He applied the pressure and maybe got a piece of the pass that turned into a wobbling ball that ended up as an interception.

Byron Murphy. From what I can tell he locked up man to man with DJ Moore, often playing with off coverage technique. I am sure he had some help but he was able to do a good job of keeping Moore from making big plays in this game after Moore exploded vs Washington. He also got an interception late in the game when the Bears were trying to get it to Moore deep to try to tie up the game.

The defense in general seemed to play pretty well. The Bears don't have a great offensive line, but they bottled up the run game pretty well and were able to get pass rush on Fields, also containing him pretty well from making too many big runs.

Nothing exceptional of note from the offense but Osborne caught most of his targets and they were able to move the ball enough to get some points. They did get lucky on the Cousins fumble that was recovered by the Bears but was ruled out of bounds. Not sure about that honestly, but they catch a break here. They were able to get an interception following the interception on Kirk which prevented the Bears from possibly getting points off that turnover.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

And that's why you don't need to pay Jefferson $35m.