Missouri football player Michael Sam is gay (1 Viewer)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow Tim - doing that again. In this thread.

 

[timschochet]

Wow Tim - doing that again. In this thread.

I didn't bring it up.

 

[Frostillicus]

From Grantland

In a Saturday-evening article in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Brewers minor leaguer David Denson publicly came out as gay, becoming the second active openly gay player in baseball, along with Sonoma Stompers pitcher Sean Conroy,1 and the first active openly gay player in the history of affiliated baseball.

And while Denson’s teammates, the Brewers organization, and much of the baseball-watching public have been welcoming and supportive in the ensuing days, the announcement was also greeted by the familiar plurality refrain of “Why is this news?” and “Who cares?”

Whenever an LGBT person breaks new ground in sports, we hear those two questions, often verbatim, and often over and over, like a drum loop playing on repeat behind the actual discourse. Mercifully, Tom Haudricourt’s Journal Sentinel story does not feature a comments section, but ESPN’s story does, and you can see those two questions there; and in the replies to Haudricourt’s first tweet about the story; and in the replies to the Brewers’ tweet that included Doug Melvin’s statement of support.

For some people, saying that Denson’s coming out isn’t a big story is a polite way of imploring him to go back into the closet — that it’s OK to be gay as long as he’s not gay in public. If those people had their way, they’d call Denson a horrible name and implore the Brewers to cut him. That they’ve learned to code their prejudice even a little shows that they know their position is a losing battle.

But I’m sure there are others who ask those questions in good faith: If all sexual orientations and gender identities are morally equal, why should we care about Denson’s? He’s the no. 27 prospect in one of the game’s worst farm systems, a 20-year-old minor league first baseman who’s struggled to hit in the very low minors. The first openly gay player at the major league level will come one day, but I doubt it will be Denson.

But this is still news, and we should still care, and there are three reasons why.

First: Sports are a political phenomenon. They have labor battles, they feature pro-military demonstrations, they often take place in publicly funded arenas, and, at the professional level, they espouse a particular brand of capitalism. LGBT rights are a political issue. LGBT people aren’t protected by hate crime legislation in 15 states. Private-sector LGBT workers aren’t protected by antidiscrimination laws in 28 states. The entry of an openly gay man into this atmosphere is, on its face, a political statement. Say what you like — and people will — but this is newsworthy on its face.

Second: Haudricourt led his story with an anecdote about Denson rebuking a teammate for carelessly using an anti-gay slur, “Because you never know.” Some people’s prejudice is active — a real, conscious hatred of people who are different. But for others, it’s careless. Often, it’s because those differences are a far-off phenomenon in their lives: They don’t know any LGBT people, or, more accurately, they don’t think they do, so they don’t give it much thought. When they realize that their casual homophobia is hurting someone they love, however, everything changes. That’s the story Denson tells about his father, and it’s a powerful call to exhibit a little empathy.

But the third reason is my favorite: I’d bet my immortal soul, or what’s left of it, that almost everyone asking why this is news is straight. I’d bet that most are white, and that considerably more than half are men. Almost all of the people who shape sports and their surrounding culture — and culture at large in this country — are straight, cisgender men. I might not have the power to shape culture, but I’m white, straight, male, and was brought up in a Christian household. I imagine many of you are too. Most of us played baseball by default as children, and even if we didn’t make it to the big leagues, we could look all over the culture of the sport — on the field, in the owner’s box, in the broadcast booth — and see people like us. People like us put on the game for people like us to enjoy, and so it never for a second occurred to us that we might not be welcome.

Now imagine not being white, straight, and male, and being interested in the game not because it fell into your lap, but for its own sake. Imagine looking into this culture that you’re interested in and not seeing anyone around who’s like you. Would you feel welcome?

We keep asking whether the American sports world is ready for an openly gay pro athlete, even after Jason Collins played 22 games in the NBA aftercoming out. We all saw the polite applause Michael Sam got when he came out and was drafted into the NFL, right before he was taken out behind the practice field and his career was buried in a shallow grave, under a hill of equally polite cowardice. After Sam came out, his draft stock fell through the floor, and he was relegated to the CFL after receiving much less of an opportunity to stick in the NFL than a straight player with his résumé could have expected; just days ago, Sam announced he’s stepping away from the game amid mental health concerns. If Sam’s experience is any indication of where the culture is, we’re not as ready as we think for an openly gay pro athlete, but maybe it’s time to stop asking whether the culture’s ready, because the answer to that question couldn’t possibly matter less. Asking whether we’re ready for an openly gay pro ballplayer places the potential hurt feelings of the hostile fan above the well-being and dignity of the closeted athlete.

You know who is ready for an openly gay pro athlete? A gay kid who’s on the fence about baseball because he doesn’t see anyone like him playing or talking about the game. We know this because we’ve already seen howMelissa Mayeux, Sarah Hudek, Eri Yoshida, and Mo’ne Davis are making that point for women. Seeing a gay player in pro baseball could open up the sport to who knows how many potential fans and players who’d never before acknowledged the possibility that they’d be welcome in the game.

A lot of people roll their eyes at the idea of privilege, but this is exactly how it works. The people who ask why this is news have never had to hide who they are for fear of others thinking less of them, because what they are is considered the cultural default. If you look down at the field, or in the program, and don’t see anyone like you, that doesn’t mean you’re automatically unwelcome, or that you have to assimilate to something other than what’s natural for you, but it’s hard to feel like you really belong. Or so I’m told, because having privilege means I don’t know what that feels like firsthand. And if you don’t get why Denson coming out is big news, it might be worth taking a step outside your own experience for a moment to consider what it’s like for those who do.

Denson cited former MLB outfielder Billy Bean, now the league’s ambassador for inclusion, as an inspiration and a valuable resource while he was coming out to the public. If Denson himself didn’t have a fellow gay ballplayer2 to look up to — proof that someone like him could exist within the game, proof that someone else knew exactly what he was going through — maybe none of this happens.

Denson went from being someone none of us had heard of to opening himself up to unspeakable vitriol and curiously aggressive apathy from people he’ll never meet, all because he wants to hit dingers while having the freedom to be himself in public. And you should care, because having a gay player in pro baseball allows another set of people to be represented in this venerated cultural institution. It helps the thousands, if not millions, of gay fans who want to turn on the TV and see someone like them playing baseball, and the next generation of gay athletes who might be emboldened to live more openly by Denson’s example.

This is news because it’s a story that, by being shared, makes people’s lives better — thousands of them, across the country, by different degrees and in different ways — and supporting it costs us nothing. If all you have to say to that is “Who cares?” you’re not asking a question out of apathy. You’re making a powerful statement.

 

[timschochet]

Great article, Frost!

The people who say "who cares?" are often the same people who a few years ago would tell you that homosexuality is disgusting and wrong. Now they can't say that anymore for fear of being labeled a bigot, so they hide behind "who cares?" and "I'm sick of hearing about it already."

 

[The Commish]

I'm pretty sure those who still hold those values couldn't care less what they are called Tim. They are a special group of people. However, there is a large group who don't care and haven't cared (either way) for a long time. They've been completely apathetic to the whole thing, but why not....let's just lump them all together into a nice tidy package

 

[McGarnicle]

Great article, Frost!

The people who say "who cares?" are often the same people who a few years ago would tell you that homosexuality is disgusting and wrong. Now they can't say that anymore for fear of being labeled a bigot, so they hide behind "who cares?" and "I'm sick of hearing about it already."

I do think it's possible to both support gays' rights to play sports without discrimination/bullying but also to feel apathetic and tired of the coverage. At this point a gay person playing sports should warrant as much coverage as an Irishman, an Athiest or a Presbyterian. Who cares?

 

[belljr]

I still believe in the locker room debate

 

[rct]

Great article, Frost!

The people who say "who cares?" are often the same people who a few years ago would tell you that homosexuality is disgusting and wrong. Now they can't say that anymore for fear of being labeled a bigot, so they hide behind "who cares?" and "I'm sick of hearing about it already."

I do think it's possible to both support gays' rights to play sports without discrimination/bullying but also to feel apathetic and tired of the coverage. At this point a gay person playing sports should warrant as much coverage as an Irishman, an Athiest or a Presbyterian. Who cares?

Obviously players in the NFL care or there would be someone who is currently on an NFL roster who would come out (unless you believe there are no gay players on any of the 32 teams, which statistically is possible but unlikely).

 

[Ookie Pringle]

I'm pretty sure those who still hold those values couldn't care less what they are called Tim. They are a special group of people. However, there is a large group who don't care and haven't cared (either way) for a long time. They've been completely apathetic to the whole thing, but why not....let's just lump them all together into a nice tidy package

Tim's quite good at lumping groups of people together and making incorrect comments about what they believe.

 

[jon_mx]

I'm pretty sure those who still hold those values couldn't care less what they are called Tim. They are a special group of people. However, there is a large group who don't care and haven't cared (either way) for a long time. They've been completely apathetic to the whole thing, but why not....let's just lump them all together into a nice tidy package

Tim's quite good at lumping groups of people together and making incorrect comments about what they believe.

 

[tom22406]

Looks like the NFL scouts got this one right.

 

[The Commish]

Great article, Frost!

The people who say "who cares?" are often the same people who a few years ago would tell you that homosexuality is disgusting and wrong. Now they can't say that anymore for fear of being labeled a bigot, so they hide behind "who cares?" and "I'm sick of hearing about it already."

I do think it's possible to both support gays' rights to play sports without discrimination/bullying but also to feel apathetic and tired of the coverage. At this point a gay person playing sports should warrant as much coverage as an Irishman, an Athiest or a Presbyterian. Who cares?

bigot

 

[McGarnicle]

Do you guys think maybe if Sam tries making love to a woman, he'll have a shot in the NFL again?

 

[Hang 10]

Do you guys think maybe if Sam tries making love to a woman, he'll have a shot in the NFL again?

The first openly bi-sexual player?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Great article, Frost!

The people who say "who cares?" are often the same people who a few years ago would tell you that homosexuality is disgusting and wrong. Now they can't say that anymore for fear of being labeled a bigot, so they hide behind "who cares?" and "I'm sick of hearing about it already."

That's quite the broad brush you have there.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I also wonder what evidence there is that the 13 year old was promiscuous prior to her abuse by Polanski. I mean Tim describes her as such to minimize the fact that she was young, coerced, and then drugged before being sodomized in spite of her apparent clear protestations.

Well, thank God she was only sodomized. It would have been so much worse if she had been molested.

Perhaps describing her as promiscuous was a poor choice of words and he did not think each word would be examined in detail. Maybe he meant precocious or some other word. The overall tenor of the quoted post does seem somewhat out of character for him, maybe even a lot out of character.

I guess I'll reserve judgment.

 

[Al O'Pecia]

The people who say "who cares?" about what Roman Polanski did are often the same people who a few years earlier were raping young teens themselves. Now they can't rape anymore for fear of being labeled a rapistt, so they hide behind "who cares?"

 

[Sweet J]

This is a strange thread.

 

[jon_mx]

The people who say "who cares?" about what Roman Polanski did are often the same people who a few years earlier were raping young teens themselves. Now they can't rape anymore for fear of being labeled a rapistt, so they hide behind "who cares?"

Really the only possibility.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm pretty sure those who still hold those values couldn't care less what they are called Tim. They are a special group of people. However, there is a large group who don't care and haven't cared (either way) for a long time. They've been completely apathetic to the whole thing, but why not....let's just lump them all together into a nice tidy package

Tim's quite good at lumping groups of people together and making incorrect comments about what they believe.

Being indifferent to the plight of others is such a big step up from the "special group of people".

 

[The Commish]

I'm pretty sure those who still hold those values couldn't care less what they are called Tim. They are a special group of people. However, there is a large group who don't care and haven't cared (either way) for a long time. They've been completely apathetic to the whole thing, but why not....let's just lump them all together into a nice tidy package

Tim's quite good at lumping groups of people together and making incorrect comments about what they believe.

Being indifferent to the plight of others is such a big step up from the "special group of people".

No one said it was a "big step up" just that the positions were different enough that they shouldn't really be lumped together. It's intellectually dishonest IMO. To each his own though.

 

[Tom Servo]

Michael Sam now says he'd still be in the league if he hadn't come out.

He told Patrick he announced he was gay “a little too early for my taste” in early 2014 but “certain things happened” that influenced him to come out — notably reporters who knew he was gay and might break the story.

 

[McGarnicle]

Michael Sam now says he'd still be in the league if he hadn't come out.

He told Patrick he announced he was gay “a little too early for my taste” in early 2014 but “certain things happened” that influenced him to come out — notably reporters who knew he was gay and might break the story.

Such a clueless self-absorbed idiot.

 

[cstu]

Next gay football player has to be better than this one.

 

[jon_mx]

I blame his agent. Now that he fired him, Sam is heading places!

 

[Dickies]

Michael Sam now says he'd still be in the league if he hadn't come out.

He told Patrick he announced he was gay “a little too early for my taste” in early 2014 but “certain things happened” that influenced him to come out — notably reporters who knew he was gay and might break the story.

What a jerk.

Should have to give back his espy.

Another delusional moron who thinks all his mistakes are really conspiracies by other people.

 

[jonessed]

Wow Tim - doing that again. In this thread.

Drugging and sodomizing kids is cool if there is a possibility they have been promiscuous in the past.It's always funny when he tries to take the moral high ground on a subject. No shame .

Sam was lucky to get drafted at all.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Michael Sam now says he'd still be in the league if he hadn't come out.

He told Patrick he announced he was gay a little too early for my taste in early 2014 but certain things happened that influenced him to come out notably reporters who knew he was gay and might break the story.

Which league? The CFL? He might be right...

 

[Das Boot]

Wow.

 

[tom22406]

NFL made deal with Rams over selecting Sam

By Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange 10 hrs ago

 

At the time, the Rams were hailed for being progressive by drafting the first openly gay player in the National Football League. It turns out, according to multiple sources, that the league agreed not to ask the Rams to appear that year on HBO's yearly summer series, "Hard Knocks," if they drafted Sam.

Shortly after his college career at Missouri ended, Sam came put publicly, acknowledging he is gay. The Southeastern Conference Co-Defensive Player of the Year in 2013, Sam was considered a fifth-round pick at best. However, as the draft proceeded on the final day, it appeared he might not be drafted at all.

It is believed the NFL didn't want to face questions about that eventuality, and the Rams were viewed as the ideal spot because of St. Louis' proximity to the Missouri campus in Columbia, 90 miles away, and head coach Jeff Fisher's ability to deal with whatever distractions there might be.

So it was that the Rams saved the day, selecting Sam with the 249th pick of a 256-player draft. Now, the Rams are jumping back into the spotlight by making a quick agreement to participate in "Hard Knocks" this year.

The Rams moved to Los Angeles in January, and as the annual owners meeting closed Wednesday, in one of the earliest announcements ever, the NFL revealed that the Rams will be the featured team this summer on the HBO show.

It is no surprise the league wants to showcase the return to a market that was without a team since 1994. What is somewhat odd, but understandable in light of the revelation, is that the Rams are now embracing the intrusion of HBO's cameras in a year in which the distractions and logistics of the move will be a challenge for the organization, coaches and players. Especially since Fisher consistently opposed having his team on the show.

In fact, in 2014, about two weeks after the draft and the selection of Sam, Fisher was asked about the possibility of the league picking the Rams for the TV show. If no team volunteers to be a part of "Hard Knocks," the league can pick a team that hasn't been on the show for 10 years, doesn't have a new head coach and hasn't made the playoffs for two years. The Rams qualified on all counts.

Fisher said, "We are eligible, but I think it's highly unlikely they'd ask us to do it. I think this organization has a right to go through training camp with some normalcy."

Of course, that "normalcy" included a record number of press conferences for a seventh-round draft pick, plus having an ESPN report late in training camp in which teammates were asked about their shower habits and those of Sam. By a female reporter, Josina Anderson.

There is unlikely to be much "normalcy" this offseason, training camp and regular season, too.

In a press release announcing the decision, Fisher said, "This is an exciting time for our franchise. Hard Knocks will be an outstanding way to bring our fans into our training camp and preseason, and give a glimpse of the hard work and dedication of our players, coaches and staff as we prepare for the 2016 season."

Of course, none of those players will be Sam, who was waived in the cut-down to 53 players in 2014, was briefly on the Dallas Cowboys' practice squad that season, then left the Montreal Alouettes of the Canadian Football League in the summer of 2015 without playing in a game.

One player still with the Rams is defensive end Ethan Westbrooks, who earned a roster spot as an undrafted free agent the same year as Sam. His story is an interesting postscript to the Sam saga. The Rams were high on Westbrooks, and he apparently was the team's target for one of its two late seventh-round picks. However, center Demetrius Rhaney was selected one spot after Sam, as it would have been unseemly to use that spot on Westbrooks, who plays the same position as Sam.

There is no direct evidence that the teams picking after the Rams were urged (told?) not to draft Westbrooks, but would anyone be surprised if that was the case as a thank-you to the Rams for taking everyone off the hook?

After all, Westbrooks received an unusually large $20,000 signing bonus in addition to having $30,000 of his first-year salary guaranteed. In the world of the NFL, that is not a large sum of money. What is notable is that the $50,000 total guarantee was more than the slotted signing bonus/guaranteed money of $45,896 that all of the seventh-round compensatory picks received, including Sam.

In addition, to steer attention away from Westbrooks as it related to any obvious competition initially with Sam, the Rams announced when signing him that the lanky, 267-pound player was a defensive tackle.

Normal, indeed.

Link

 

 

[Rove!]

Unfortunate if true....he was good enough to get drafted late....

 

[dutch]

This is an interesting sidenote but not that earth shattering a development.  Integrating baseball was a political process as well and sometimes it takes a push to get outmoded ways of thinking kicked into the present.  As you say Rove, Sam was good enough to be projected as a draft choice so the league offered a carrot to the Rams to make sure that that happened.  

 

[Cjw_55106]

Can I get this explained to me? I don't see the issue. The league agreed not to ask the Rams to appear that year on HBO's yearly summer series, "Hard Knocks," if they drafted Sam. Does this mean that if they were to draft Sam, the Rams asked not to be on Hard Knocks? If so, who cares? Isnt it fair to say that they would have enough media on their plate?

I guess the Westbrooks issue could be scrutinized, but I don't see an issue with the lead. Clearly, I'm missing something.

 

[dutch]

Yeah, the Westbrooks draft actually worked well for him as the report states that he received unusually high compensation for where he was picked anyway.  A win all around.

 

[Henry Ford]

Wow.  

Michael Sam is gay?

 

[McGarnicle]

Wait, so Westbrooks is gay too? Do they have a separate shower for him?

 

[Chadstroma]

Sounds like to me that it is more of a "Hey, if you draft this kid and deal with the extra circus of that- we won't compound the problem by forcing you to be on Hard Knocks too". There were tons of football warning signs on this kid and if not for the co-defensive player of the year one season wonder (which seems to have been a matter more about being in the right place at the right time and a good college player than about him being a good NFL prospect) where I would not have wanted my team to draft him. I thought he was very much likely not going to be an NFL player based on football ability- putting aside anything else.

I think teams were reluctant to draft him because 1) He was a marginal talent. 2) They knew there would be a circus surrounding him.

If he was a top talent teams would have been more willing to take on the circus- just like they are when the circus is criminal activity or drug abuse etc. If I was a team- I would not have given him the chance because his talent did not tell me it was worth it and hell no if you are going to spotlight the whole circus on Hard Knocks.

 

[McGarnicle]

Hard Knocks = still gay.

 

[sbonomo]

who gives a ####? 

 

[McGarnicle]

who gives a ####? 

The gays, probably.

 

[Hang 10]

What I want to know is, how does Jeff Fisher have such good job security? Can anyone recall his last winning season? Maybe he's gay. 

 

[jon_mx]

This is why he is known as wrong_mx.

LOL....as usual when the truth trickles out I end up being correct.  His coming out improved his draft position.

 

[squistion]

LOL....as usual when the truth trickles out I end up being correct.  His coming out improved his draft position.

You also said teams would tripping over themselves to be the first to draft him.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The gays, probably.

Daaaaaaaaaaa gase..  (SNL Chicago Sports Guys)

 

[Chadstroma]

LOL....as usual when the truth trickles out I end up being correct.  His coming out improved his draft position.

I am not sure about that. I don't think that his being gay was the big issue but balancing out the potential for him to be an NFL player (questionable to begin with) with the circus surrounding him (questions, interviews, more media coverage, etc). I think if he did not come out- he might have been drafted a bit higher. Not much higher but higher.

There is no question in my mind that he got more chances than he otherwise would have because he was gay though.  

 

[Gary Coal Man]

No surprise he was drafted for optics instead of ability. Everyone knew he didn't have the skills. NFL-caliber players don't wash out of the CFL in half a season. 

Not everyone...

“I think if I never would have came out, never would have said those words out to the public, I would still be currently in the NFL. But because of me saying those words, I think it could have played a huge part in my current situation,” he said [ in an interview on the Edge of Sports podcast with Dave Zirin]

Think Progress, May 6, 2016

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Not everyone...

“I think if I never would have came out, never would have said those words out to the public, I would still be currently in the NFL. But because of me saying those words, I think it could have played a huge part in my current situation,” he said [ in an interview on the Edge of Sports podcast with Dave Zirin]

Think Progress, May 6, 2016

He failed to make the Alouettes too. They even made him the starter giving him playing time, leaping him over two LBers who had trained the whole offseason, he still didn't stick. [edited, post Squiz correction].

 

[squistion]

He failed to make the Alouettes too. They even made him the starter, leaping him over two LBers who had trained the whole offseason, he still didn't stick.

He was never made the starter, although he was competing for that role.

And he quit on the team, not really the same thing as saying he didn't stick. Now you could argue he quit the team because he knew he couldn't cut it, but officially he didn't wash out for playing reasons - for whatever that is worth.

Bottom line is that the guy just wasn't cut out to handle the attention and media circus of being the first drafted gay NFL player.

 

[Tom Servo]

I'm assuming he's still gay, right?

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

You would think that the one team he would be able to make would be the one that calls itself the Alouettes.