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Modern GOP really only a minority opposition party? (1 Viewer)

Todd Andrews

Footballguy
Some thoughts on politics (only mine and worth exactly what you paid for them):

Historically, the modern Republican party has mostly only been a minority opposition party, and not a majority governing political party. For example, the American people have only trusted the GOP with both houses of Congress and the Executive branch at the same time in the modern era (say 1937 or so until now--if you go back to the 20s the GOP had control in that decade before the Crash and Great Depression) a couple of times: Eisenhower had both houses from 53-55 and GW Bush did from 2000 - 2006. In contrast, there are long stretches where the Democratic party has controlled both houses and the Presidency (FDR, Truman, JFK/LBJ, Carter, first two years of Clinton and Obama) Similarly, for most of the past century, the Democratic party traditionally controlled most governorships and statehouses with less periods of Republican control. Typically, the GOP controls the Executive branch more frequently than it controls the House and/or Senate, and it appears that the GOP is granted control of the Executive branch, House and/or Senate as a counterbalance to existing Democratic controls of other parts of the government (legislative or executive branches).

Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).

The above makes sense when trying to figure out where the Tea Party fits into the political spectrum. I view the Tea Party as a pretty clever and successful rebranding effort by the GOP following some pretty disastrous Republican governance in the early mid-2000s. A large number of Tea Party candidates were elected in 2010 and all just happen to be Republicans.....hmmmmm.... Obviously, the American people were exhibiting a delayed reaction to almost a decade of pretty uncontrolled spending.

My personal belief is that US politics are always trending in a more "liberal" or "left" fashion, which makes sense for a free society (think the Athens model versus the Sparta model). Of course, there are periods where the collective thinking swings to a more "conservative" perspective. If we use the somewhat silly "left"/"right" labels, I kind of think of it as a train heading forward on a slightly inexorable leftward track with a large pendulum on one of the cars which swings always to the left and right, but always ultimately ends up slightly to the left as the train moves forward.

The current duopoly of Democrats and Republicans appears unbreakable to me absent public funding of federal elections, so I dont think any third party could possibly win the Presidency or more than a few seats in the House or Senate any time soon.

Using the above as my framework (and I admit it is pretty simplistic and I welcome criticism), I predict that the GOP keeps the House and might even take the Senate in 2012, but that Obama wins re-election much like Bush did in 2004--grudgingly.

Tell me why I am wrong, please.

 
Most polling seems to suggest the United States is "right of middle" vs the left leaning you indicated in your opening post. Seems when either partiy get complete control they go for everything they can get from the extreme side of their party, the people get upset and correct it in the next election or two.

 
People these days, especially the seeming half of the world who think nothing relevant happened before 1980, have no idea how much of a minority party the Republicans (esp the reactionary, which is now called the "conservative" wing) were before that time. In fact, the Goldwater candidacy might have killed it if civil rights hadnt sent southern Democrats scurrying to the GOP in search of support for segregation. Most of y'all dont realize that in 1975, there were more communist/socialist Americans than there was people of the type now represented by Fox News.

No more, though - opinion/outlook is managed by media, who recognizes that angry & bored are the two conditions of humanity most easily marketed to and have worked hard to make America both. The times have helped with the angry, which FNC has turned into the the right being not only a growing concern but the prevailing sentiment of the country. This outlook will continue to grow exponentially until the very near time when folks' brothers & uncles & grannies start becoming homeless in the difficult times ahead.

The Dems will likely never be a minority party because the natural state of humanity is left of center, but rightist hysteria is going to be with us, probably as the ascendant viewpoint, until at least a crash of Depression size.

 
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People these days, especially the seeming half of the world who think nothing relevant happened before 1980, have no idea how much of a minority party the Republicans (esp the reactionary, which is now called the "conservative" wing) were before that time. In fact, the Goldwater candidacy might have killed it if civil rights hadnt sent southern Democrats scurrying to the GOP in search of support for segregation. Most of y'all dont realize that in 1975, there were more communist/socialist Americans than there was people of the type now represented by Fox News.
:goodposting: Very true, which is exactly why I question this...
My personal belief is that US politics are always trending in a more "liberal" or "left" fashion
 
My personal belief is that US politics are always trending in a more "liberal" or "left" fashion
The Dems will likely never be a minority party because the natural state of humanity is left of center
Are you guys defining "left" in the above statements by central planning philosophy? Economic philosophy? Social philosphy?
The natural state of humanity is cooperative. If i didnt believe that, i'd never make a viewpoint post. This all is a hysteria, selfishness inspired by half the population becoming self-determinent for the 1st time within the last half-century and exacerbated by new media.
 
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Most of y'all dont realize that in 1975, there were more communist/socialist Americans than there was people of the type now represented by Fox News.
Oh, I absolutely disagree. There were a lot of Archie Bunker Democrats. There just wasnt as cohesive a grouping as Fox News and the modern GOP has created now. But there were lots of "conservatives."
My personal belief is that US politics are always trending in a more "liberal" or "left" fashion
The Dems will likely never be a minority party because the natural state of humanity is left of center
Are you guys defining "left" in the above statements by central planning philosophy? Economic philosophy? Social philosphy?
I was using the term loosely to apply to a bunch of things: politically progressive, tolerant, civil rights oriented, social democrat-like, keynesian, etc. I think that based on history and facts both the GOP and Democrats are totally oriented towards a massive centralized federal government and a hugely expanded executive branch.
 
As I wrote in the other thread on this subject:

The Republican party has always been a three legged stool- economic conservatives, social conservatives, and foreign policy conservatives. Historically, the "grass roots" or populist elements of the party have always been social conservatives, and their primary issues have typically been issues like abortion and gay marriage, etc. For decades the formula of the Republican establishment has been to use these social issues to energize the base, and then win the general election based on economic and foreign policy. The base has been frustrated that more hasn't been done about abortion and social issues, but the GOP leadership has always been able to use the excuse that their ability to actually do anything about these (other than appoint judges) has been limited.

What's new about the Tea Party is that, for the first time in decades, the grass roots, populist elements of the base have moved away from social conservatism as their primary issue. They are still, for the most part, social conservatives, but their primary concern is now economics. And the reason that (IMO) this makes them so dangerous is that they want to apply the same simplistic, absolutist, populist solutions they have tried to apply to social issues to the national economy. They were helpless to change abortion in this manner, but they are not helpless when it comes to the economy- the debt ceiling crisis being an example of this, I'm afraid the first of many.

The Republican establishment knows that these sorts of solutions aren't practical and will actually do damage, but they're helpless to stop or even slow down the populist elements they have worked hard to unleash. Those elements could be manipulated and controlled when the issues were abortion and gay marriage; they can't be controlled when the issue is the debt.

 
As I wrote in the other thread on this subject:The Republican party has always been a three legged stool- economic conservatives, social conservatives, and foreign policy conservatives. Historically, the "grass roots" or populist elements of the party have always been social conservatives, and their primary issues have typically been issues like abortion and gay marriage, etc. For decades the formula of the Republican establishment has been to use these social issues to energize the base, and then win the general election based on economic and foreign policy. The base has been frustrated that more hasn't been done about abortion and social issues, but the GOP leadership has always been able to use the excuse that their ability to actually do anything about these (other than appoint judges) has been limited. What's new about the Tea Party is that, for the first time in decades, the grass roots, populist elements of the base have moved away from social conservatism as their primary issue. They are still, for the most part, social conservatives, but their primary concern is now economics. And the reason that (IMO) this makes them so dangerous is that they want to apply the same simplistic, absolutist, populist solutions they have tried to apply to social issues to the national economy. They were helpless to change abortion in this manner, but they are not helpless when it comes to the economy- the debt ceiling crisis being an example of this, I'm afraid the first of many. The Republican establishment knows that these sorts of solutions aren't practical and will actually do damage, but they're helpless to stop or even slow down the populist elements they have worked hard to unleash. Those elements could be manipulated and controlled when the issues were abortion and gay marriage; they can't be controlled when the issue is the debt.
Interestingly, that three legged stool model is a relatively recent one. Pre_Reagan, many evangelical Christians or their equivalent (charismatic Catholics, etc.) werent very political or not a unified political voting block. Reagan really created the modern current GOP coalition by bringing in and creating a welcoming home specifically for the religious fundamentalist voters. Before that, there were always social conservatives in the GOP but they werent as overtly religious and more like Birchers, etc.
 
Most polling seems to suggest the United States is "right of middle" vs the left leaning you indicated in your opening post. Seems when either partiy get complete control they go for everything they can get from the extreme side of their party, the people get upset and correct it in the next election or two.
I agree about the back and forth corrective measures--that is the pendulum on the train. I disagree that this is a "center right" country, though, and would need some sort of real polls or studies backing that up. If anything, historically, this has been one of the most overall progressive countries in the last century. I think the "center right country" meme is a political talking point not a reality.
 
That author's point about a dwindling Republican base was correct when the author made that statement..... in early 2008.Then this happened...

Republicans won more House seats than any party has won since 1948.

As significant as the Republican sweep at the federal level, gains for Republicans in governorships and state legislatures could position the party for further success. Nineteen state legislative chambers flipped from Democrat to Republican control Tuesday. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, Republicans now control 55 chambers, Democrats have 38, and one is tied. Maine, for the first time since 1964, has elected a Republican governor and two Republican legislative chambers.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/11/05/impressions_from_a_historic_election_107849.html

2010 Election in Numbers

 
Historically, the "grass roots" or populist elements of the party have always been social conservatives, and their primary issues have typically been issues like abortion and gay marriage, etc.
The religious right didn't start organizing until the 1970s and social conservatives started driving the GOP in the 1980s.
 
Given these facts, I guess it's fair to say that it was Democrats that led us to the complete disaster that we're in.

 
Given these facts, I guess it's fair to say that it was Democrats that led us to the complete disaster that we're in.
Well, the Republicans ran the entire government in the 1920's and we got the Crash and the Great Depression. Then the American people finally trusted them to run it again from 51-53 and that went pretty well--Ike gave us the interstate highway system. But for some reason the American people didnt trust the GOP to run the entire government again until 2000 - 2006 and we got the 2007 recession and our current situation. I am pretty sure it will be a good long while before they get another shot at running the show again. But you stick with that idea that the Democrats passed enough legislation in early 2006 and got it signed by President Bush to create our current situation--that makes historical sense.
 
...Pre_Reagan, many evangelical Christians or their equivalent (charismatic Catholics, etc.) werent very political or not a unified political voting block. Reagan really created the modern current GOP coalition by bringing in and creating a welcoming home specifically for the religious fundamentalist voters. Before that, there were always social conservatives in the GOP but they werent as overtly religious and more like Birchers, etc.
There use to be a underlying belief among the most religious (not just those mentioned above) that it was distasteful to lower oneself into the ugliness that was politics and even voting (at least openly) was frown upon. Then "the religious" started losing battles one after another they never imagined they could lose - "mixed marriage", "gay rights", "roe v. wade" and all that changed. Reagan was more at the right place at the right time than anything else. However, there is no denying his "you cannot support me, but I support you" line was a defining moment.
 
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The Dems will likely never be a minority party because the natural state of humanity is left of center
Are you guys defining "left" in the above statements by central planning philosophy? Economic philosophy? Social philosphy?
The natural state of humanity is cooperative. If i didnt believe that, i'd never make a viewpoint post. This all is a hysteria, selfishness inspired by half the population becoming self-determinent for the 1st time within the last half-century and exacerbated by new media.
People naturally do want to help others. That’s why Conservatives, even though they’re derided as uncaring, give so much to charity. When people give their time, energy, and money to help others, they want to see those recipients also giving their time, energy, and money to better themselves. When the givers-in don’t see that reciprocity they will question the system. They’ll question whether they’re being taken advantage of, and they’ll question whether their giving is serving its intended purpose. The givers may even become resentful toward the takers. Now, just to be real real, people tend to give to people who look like them. For example, do you think black people contribute more to The United Negro College Fund or The United Asian College Fund? That doesn’t make those givers racist or xenophobic. That’s human nature. European socialist welfare states flourished for years with little citizen resistance when the givers-in and takers-out were of the same people. Post mass immigration, many givers-in noticed that the takers-out were increasingly taking advantage of an overly generous and not fine-tuned welfare system. The givers-in also noticed that a disproportionate amount of those recipients were of a different people. Resistance to the welfare state began to grow. We even see this dynamic of preferring to help “my people” (See Holder, Eric) on a larger scale within the EU (“The rich countries of the northern euro zone are bearing the brunt of bailing out their debt-stricken fellow members. Resentment is growing among their populations, helping euroskeptic right-wing populists to win support.”)

People are afraid to admit the above because welfare state proponents are quick to deride them as racist or xenophobic. Some welfare state proponents do this to protect their agenda, and others do it because they question the above human nature argument when it comes from someone who looks like me, but overlook the same sentiment when it comes from someone like Eric Holder. This will be a point of tension in multicultural nations, even if not said publicly, and will continue to drive more people away from what they perceive to be an overly generous and not fine-tuned welfare state.

 
'Todd Andrews said:
Given these facts, I guess it's fair to say that it was Democrats that led us to the complete disaster that we're in.
Well, the Republicans ran the entire government in the 1920's and we got the Crash and the Great Depression. Then the American people finally trusted them to run it again from 51-53 and that went pretty well--Ike gave us the interstate highway system. But for some reason the American people didnt trust the GOP to run the entire government again until 2000 - 2006 and we got the 2007 recession and our current situation. I am pretty sure it will be a good long while before they get another shot at running the show again. But you stick with that idea that the Democrats passed enough legislation in early 2006 and got it signed by President Bush to create our current situation--that makes historical sense.
What Bush did in 6 years didn't lead us to our current problems by itself. It helped, but this disaster has been decades in the making. While the Republicans were typically nothing more than a minor opposition party in your estimation.
 
'Jewell said:
The Dems will likely never be a minority party because the natural state of humanity is left of center
Are you guys defining "left" in the above statements by central planning philosophy? Economic philosophy? Social philosphy?
The natural state of humanity is cooperative. If i didnt believe that, i'd never make a viewpoint post. This all is a hysteria, selfishness inspired by half the population becoming self-determinent for the 1st time within the last half-century and exacerbated by new media.
People naturally do want to help others. That’s why Conservatives, even though they’re derided as uncaring, give so much to charity. When people give their time, energy, and money to help others, they want to see those recipients also giving their time, energy, and money to better themselves. When the givers-in don’t see that reciprocity they will question the system. They’ll question whether they’re being taken advantage of, and they’ll question whether their giving is serving its intended purpose. The givers may even become resentful toward the takers. Now, just to be real real, people tend to give to people who look like them. For example, do you think black people contribute more to The United Negro College Fund or The United Asian College Fund? That doesn’t make those givers racist or xenophobic. That’s human nature. European socialist welfare states flourished for years with little citizen resistance when the givers-in and takers-out were of the same people. Post mass immigration, many givers-in noticed that the takers-out were increasingly taking advantage of an overly generous and not fine-tuned welfare system. The givers-in also noticed that a disproportionate amount of those recipients were of a different people. Resistance to the welfare state began to grow. We even see this dynamic of preferring to help “my people” (See Holder, Eric) on a larger scale within the EU (“The rich countries of the northern euro zone are bearing the brunt of bailing out their debt-stricken fellow members. Resentment is growing among their populations, helping euroskeptic right-wing populists to win support.”)

People are afraid to admit the above because welfare state proponents are quick to deride them as racist or xenophobic. Some welfare state proponents do this to protect their agenda, and others do it because they question the above human nature argument when it comes from someone who looks like me, but overlook the same sentiment when it comes from someone like Eric Holder. This will be a point of tension in multicultural nations, even if not said publicly, and will continue to drive more people away from what they perceive to be an overly generous and not fine-tuned welfare state.
Never thought i'd use the word "folderol" (see "retired phrases" thread) twice in one day, but i'm getting close. Jewell, you are one of the more sensible & flexible conservatives around here, but i hope you'll reconsider what nitpicking rubbish you just posted. It's not worth response, but it does stimulate my desire to make a point that i dont think i've attempted around here.There is a lot of idiocy in the opinion threads but perhaps the most common & ridiculous of all is the opinion among rightists that everyone who opposes them believes a state solution to any social, moral, economic problem is the optimum one. Except for two ol' NEA activists in my family, i dont know of a single person of my ilk who does.

A half a century ago, more than half the people in the United States of America did not have a reasonable opportunity to determine the course of their lives. The "haves" were mostly OK with this because the resulting isolation made control of populations easier and society operate more "efficiently". But it was wrong and, God help us, America should never be the Land of Wrong, so the freedom of women & non-whites was won.

There is not a doubt in my mind that civil & women's rights are as responsible as any other factor for the dramatic change, if not dimunition, in the family and decline of the sense of decency in this land. Freedom trumps order, though, so it had to be. I have listened to LBJ, Daniel Moynihan, John Mitchell, Betty Friedan, Ralph Reed, Jack Kemp, Lee Atwater, Walter Mondale, Jerry Falwell right on up to the stoogeworthy troikas of ailes/limbaugh/oreilly and olbermann/maddow/gore discuss answers for coordinating necessary freedom with needed order and i aint seen the answer yet. Still dont know if there is one.

The common leftist NEVER believed that govt had the answer for this. The devil's deal was made to set these people free and the federal govt was the only institution with the size & will to attempt the management of opportunity and fairness for them and the world into which they entered. The answer was not sought in government by the left anymore than by the right.

Turns out that representative democracy and liberty for all may not be compatible. And media, the cost it has created in running for office, the mouthpiece for indecent options it has become & the influence it has given the selfishly-motivated over how society is conducted, has exacerbated that difference to a ridiculous extent. It has divided control of our great country between the clueless & the thievish. Simply put, the left has had to defend the rules because the right doesnt want any and the problems of a liberated society are too unwieldy for there not to be mass chaos without them. The reason the right has gained ascendancy over the left is that conservatives are in a position to know exactly what they want when the left cant. To bastardize on old saying about the inequities of marriage "The right's gotta do what the right's gotta do and the left's gotta do everything else.

The left presently has it just as wrong as the right, if not moreso. We are all at fault, however, for the building of bridges to nowhere when one crossing the gulf between us is so badly needed. Do we have to wait for the coming Hoovertowns to restore our sense of community before we lay the first plank?

 
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Its more accurate to say both the GOP and democratic party are BOTH becoming minority parties, as independent voters become the dominant force.

As you can see from the chart here, independents have been ahead of both parties since summer 2009. Looking a bit further back shows independents have been on a long rise, democrats have been on a long decline, and republicans have been stuck in a range.

One thing is clear - the US is trending away from left/liberal ideology. If you think about it, in the first half of the 20th century, it was the norm for major new social programs to get enacted with public support. After Carter gave us the department of education, the well went dry until Obamacare. And look at the public reaction to Obamacare. The public HATES it and wants it repealed, and no amount of selling on the part of Obama can convince people otherwise. Look at the collapse in public support for unions.

We have moved quite far to the right over the past 30 years. They elected Obama thinking he was in the mold of Clinton, some centrist. He thought he was ushering in a new liberal age, and tried to govern that way. And its not working.

 
The percentage of Americans who call themselves democrats is 31%, 1% above the all-time low, set in 1994.

The percentage of American who call themselves republicans is 25%, 4% above the all-time low, set in 1977.

The percentage of Americans who call themselves independents is 36%, an all-time high.

 
Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).
That's a narrative more than a truth. If you are a democrat, you want to try to convince people that the narrative is is the democratic party is the only one trusted. To accomplish that, you use lies of omission. You omit or do not report most of the good news about republicans and the bad news about democrats. That builds a narrative that says the democrats are the only one you can trust. That is different than truth.For example, look at the 3 wars were fighting now. When Bush was conducting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a constant stream of negative press. They asked questions like "why are we there?" When Obama conducts a third war in Libya, the media doesn't ask that question. There is no antiwar movement. There is silence until some good news comes out. If it was a republican that attacked Libya, the press would be going crazy with hard questions, and an antiwar movement would grow and grow. That's called building a narrative.

The good news is Americans are smart and see through most of the lies. Obama is at a 38%/54% approval/disapproval rating right now. Propaganda is not very effective when the public is as intelligent as Americans are.

 
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The percentage of Americans who call themselves democrats is 31%, 1% above the all-time low, set in 1994.The percentage of American who call themselves republicans is 25%, 4% above the all-time low, set in 1977.The percentage of Americans who call themselves independents is 36%, an all-time high.
Where is the other 8%?
 
Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).
That's a narrative more than a truth. If you are a democrat, you want to try to convince people that the narrative is is the democratic party is the only one trusted. To accomplish that, you use lies of omission. You omit or do not report most of the good news about republicans and the bad news about democrats. That builds a narrative that says the democrats are the only one you can trust. That is different than truth.For example, look at the 3 wars were fighting now. When Bush was conducting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a constant stream of negative press. They asked questions like "why are we there?" When Obama conducts a third war in Libya, the media doesn't ask that question. There is no antiwar movement. There is silence until some good news comes out. If it was a republican that attacked Libya, the press would be going crazy with hard questions, and an antiwar movement would grow and grow. That's called building a narrative.

The good news is Americans are smart and see through most of the lies. Obama is at a 38%/54% approval/disapproval rating right now. Propaganda is not very effective when the public is as intelligent as Americans are.
Comparing the american policy toward Libya and the war in Iraq is idiotic and can only be construed as disingenuous. Typical GOP tactics.

 
'Todd Andrews said:
Given these facts, I guess it's fair to say that it was Democrats that led us to the complete disaster that we're in.
Well, the Republicans ran the entire government in the 1920's and we got the Crash and the Great Depression. Then the American people finally trusted them to run it again from 51-53 and that went pretty well--Ike gave us the interstate highway system. But for some reason the American people didnt trust the GOP to run the entire government again until 2000 - 2006 and we got the 2007 recession and our current situation. I am pretty sure it will be a good long while before they get another shot at running the show again. But you stick with that idea that the Democrats passed enough legislation in early 2006 and got it signed by President Bush to create our current situation--that makes historical sense.
What Bush did in 6 years didn't lead us to our current problems by itself. It helped, but this disaster has been decades in the making. While the Republicans were typically nothing more than a minor opposition party in your estimation.
I agree that others are to blame. I think Greenspan, the SEC, Clinton and Phil Gramm (repeal of Glass, etc.) and many others are at fault. But it happened after 6 straight years of GOP rule. That cannot be avoided.
 
Its more accurate to say both the GOP and democratic party are BOTH becoming minority parties, as independent voters become the dominant force.

As you can see from the chart here, independents have been ahead of both parties since summer 2009. Looking a bit further back shows independents have been on a long rise, democrats have been on a long decline, and republicans have been stuck in a range.

One thing is clear - the US is trending away from left/liberal ideology. If you think about it, in the first half of the 20th century, it was the norm for major new social programs to get enacted with public support. After Carter gave us the department of education, the well went dry until Obamacare. And look at the public reaction to Obamacare. The public HATES it and wants it repealed, and no amount of selling on the part of Obama can convince people otherwise. Look at the collapse in public support for unions.

We have moved quite far to the right over the past 30 years. They elected Obama thinking he was in the mold of Clinton, some centrist. He thought he was ushering in a new liberal age, and tried to govern that way. And its not working.
I disagree that the country has moved "far to the right over the past 30 years" but would welcome your effort to illustrate it for me.
Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).
That's a narrative more than a truth. If you are a democrat, you want to try to convince people that the narrative is is the democratic party is the only one trusted. To accomplish that, you use lies of omission. You omit or do not report most of the good news about republicans and the bad news about democrats. That builds a narrative that says the democrats are the only one you can trust. That is different than truth.For example, look at the 3 wars were fighting now. When Bush was conducting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a constant stream of negative press. They asked questions like "why are we there?" When Obama conducts a third war in Libya, the media doesn't ask that question. There is no antiwar movement. There is silence until some good news comes out. If it was a republican that attacked Libya, the press would be going crazy with hard questions, and an antiwar movement would grow and grow. That's called building a narrative.

The good news is Americans are smart and see through most of the lies. Obama is at a 38%/54% approval/disapproval rating right now. Propaganda is not very effective when the public is as intelligent as Americans are.
Was Bush's super low approval levels the result of the American people flexing their intelligence and seeing through his propaganda? What about the current GOP Congress historical low approval levels and the Tea Party dismal approval levels (below atheists and muslims)? The intelligent Americans must have seen through their propaganda as well. It isnt a "narrative" that the GOP has been a historical minority opposition party--it is a historical fact. Your narrative is that somehow the GOP represents the majority of Americans when the truth is that it very rarely has in modern times (eg the "silent majority", etc.). I am not a Democrat and would love to see the rise of a credible responsible third political party but history and facts are not fungible. They just are. Check the election results for the last 70-80 years. Simple to see.

 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
Oh please. My premise is only ridiculous if you purposefully or ignorantly misunderstand it and make a completely different argument.I am talking about elected office at every level in the US in modern times, which I clearly define as the last 70-80 years. You are only looking at the last election, when the pendulum swung to the right. And your argument is even lame on a micro level because the year before (2009), the House, Senate, Presidency and I believe even a majority of governorships and statehouses were all in Democratic party hands. But I am actually looking at this historically because any short period is merely a snapshot and has little weight. But over the last 70-80 years, a significant majority of all the elections in this country for governorships, House seats, Senate seats, the Presidency (closest: about 42 Democratic years to 40 GOP over the last 82 years going back to the beginning of Hoover's awesome Presidency), and all state legislative seats have been won by Democrats.
 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
Oh please. My premise is only ridiculous if you purposefully or ignorantly misunderstand it and make a completely different argument.I am talking about elected office at every level in the US in modern times, which I clearly define as the last 70-80 years. You are only looking at the last election, when the pendulum swung to the right. And your argument is even lame on a micro level because the year before (2009), the House, Senate, Presidency and I believe even a majority of governorships and statehouses were all in Democratic party hands.

But I am actually looking at this historically because any short period is merely a snapshot and has little weight. But over the last 70-80 years, a significant majority of all the elections in this country for governorships, House seats, Senate seats, the Presidency (closest: about 42 Democratic years to 40 GOP over the last 82 years going back to the beginning of Hoover's awesome Presidency), and all state legislative seats have been won by Democrats.
No, you are mainly addressing the House and Senate. You completely ignore Governors. You also cherry pick your years for the President which happen to have a 5-term Democrat. In more recent times, the last 50 years, the GOP has occupied the White House more often than not. The balance of power between the two parties has not been that significant. Both parties have had their hand in screwing up the country or making it better.
 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
Oh please. My premise is only ridiculous if you purposefully or ignorantly misunderstand it and make a completely different argument.I am talking about elected office at every level in the US in modern times, which I clearly define as the last 70-80 years. You are only looking at the last election, when the pendulum swung to the right. And your argument is even lame on a micro level because the year before (2009), the House, Senate, Presidency and I believe even a majority of governorships and statehouses were all in Democratic party hands.

But I am actually looking at this historically because any short period is merely a snapshot and has little weight. But over the last 70-80 years, a significant majority of all the elections in this country for governorships, House seats, Senate seats, the Presidency (closest: about 42 Democratic years to 40 GOP over the last 82 years going back to the beginning of Hoover's awesome Presidency), and all state legislative seats have been won by Democrats.
No, you are mainly addressing the House and Senate. You completely ignore Governors. You also cherry pick your years for the President which happen to have a 5-term Democrat. In more recent times, the last 50 years, the GOP has occupied the White House more often than not. The balance of power between the two parties has not been that significant. Both parties have had their hand in screwing up the country or making it better.
Do you live in a fantasy world where when you say something it becomes fact? I didnt cherry pick my years and I dont care if you use 50 or 70 or 80. Go look up which party has won the majority of state legislative chambers, House seats, Senate seats, and the Presidency, and you will find that even using your 50 year period, the GOP has--except for maybe a couple years of the Executive branch in your cherry picked period--won far less elections overall at every level, governed for far less time periods at state and federal levels, and generally been only a minority opposition party. I know it makes you sad, but these are simple verifiable facts. You just dont like them and it makes you cry inside. I feel for you.

 
Its more accurate to say both the GOP and democratic party are BOTH becoming minority parties, as independent voters become the dominant force.

As you can see from the chart here, independents have been ahead of both parties since summer 2009. Looking a bit further back shows independents have been on a long rise, democrats have been on a long decline, and republicans have been stuck in a range.

One thing is clear - the US is trending away from left/liberal ideology. If you think about it, in the first half of the 20th century, it was the norm for major new social programs to get enacted with public support. After Carter gave us the department of education, the well went dry until Obamacare. And look at the public reaction to Obamacare. The public HATES it and wants it repealed, and no amount of selling on the part of Obama can convince people otherwise. Look at the collapse in public support for unions.

We have moved quite far to the right over the past 30 years. They elected Obama thinking he was in the mold of Clinton, some centrist. He thought he was ushering in a new liberal age, and tried to govern that way. And its not working.
I disagree that the country has moved "far to the right over the past 30 years" but would welcome your effort to illustrate it for me.
Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).
That's a narrative more than a truth. If you are a democrat, you want to try to convince people that the narrative is is the democratic party is the only one trusted. To accomplish that, you use lies of omission. You omit or do not report most of the good news about republicans and the bad news about democrats. That builds a narrative that says the democrats are the only one you can trust. That is different than truth.For example, look at the 3 wars were fighting now. When Bush was conducting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a constant stream of negative press. They asked questions like "why are we there?" When Obama conducts a third war in Libya, the media doesn't ask that question. There is no antiwar movement. There is silence until some good news comes out. If it was a republican that attacked Libya, the press would be going crazy with hard questions, and an antiwar movement would grow and grow. That's called building a narrative.

The good news is Americans are smart and see through most of the lies. Obama is at a 38%/54% approval/disapproval rating right now. Propaganda is not very effective when the public is as intelligent as Americans are.
Was Bush's super low approval levels the result of the American people flexing their intelligence and seeing through his propaganda? What about the current GOP Congress historical low approval levels and the Tea Party dismal approval levels (below atheists and muslims)? The intelligent Americans must have seen through their propaganda as well. It isnt a "narrative" that the GOP has been a historical minority opposition party--it is a historical fact. Your narrative is that somehow the GOP represents the majority of Americans when the truth is that it very rarely has in modern times (eg the "silent majority", etc.). I am not a Democrat and would love to see the rise of a credible responsible third political party but history and facts are not fungible. They just are. Check the election results for the last 70-80 years. Simple to see.
1. Give Obama enough time and he'll probably match Bush's low rating. Obama is at 38% right now.2. When you say that It isnt a "narrative" that the GOP has been a historical minority opposition party--it is a historical fact. to defend your view that it is a fact, you are using a logical fallacy called "circular reasoning". Basically, restating (with confidence) your own view as proof that your own view is correct. Also when you say Your narrative is that somehow the GOP represents the majority of Americans is a straw man. I did not say that.

 
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Its more accurate to say both the GOP and democratic party are BOTH becoming minority parties, as independent voters become the dominant force.

As you can see from the chart here, independents have been ahead of both parties since summer 2009. Looking a bit further back shows independents have been on a long rise, democrats have been on a long decline, and republicans have been stuck in a range.

One thing is clear - the US is trending away from left/liberal ideology. If you think about it, in the first half of the 20th century, it was the norm for major new social programs to get enacted with public support. After Carter gave us the department of education, the well went dry until Obamacare. And look at the public reaction to Obamacare. The public HATES it and wants it repealed, and no amount of selling on the part of Obama can convince people otherwise. Look at the collapse in public support for unions.

We have moved quite far to the right over the past 30 years. They elected Obama thinking he was in the mold of Clinton, some centrist. He thought he was ushering in a new liberal age, and tried to govern that way. And its not working.
I disagree that the country has moved "far to the right over the past 30 years" but would welcome your effort to illustrate it for me.
Thus, it appears that the Democratic party is generally trusted by the American people as the governing party, while the Republican party is trusted as a vocal minority opposition party intended to balance and counter the power of the Democrats. But generally, the American people dont appear to trust the GOP with both legislative houses and the Presidency all at the same time--I can only assume because they do not want them controlling the entire government (my opinion).
That's a narrative more than a truth. If you are a democrat, you want to try to convince people that the narrative is is the democratic party is the only one trusted. To accomplish that, you use lies of omission. You omit or do not report most of the good news about republicans and the bad news about democrats. That builds a narrative that says the democrats are the only one you can trust. That is different than truth.For example, look at the 3 wars were fighting now. When Bush was conducting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there was a constant stream of negative press. They asked questions like "why are we there?" When Obama conducts a third war in Libya, the media doesn't ask that question. There is no antiwar movement. There is silence until some good news comes out. If it was a republican that attacked Libya, the press would be going crazy with hard questions, and an antiwar movement would grow and grow. That's called building a narrative.

The good news is Americans are smart and see through most of the lies. Obama is at a 38%/54% approval/disapproval rating right now. Propaganda is not very effective when the public is as intelligent as Americans are.
Was Bush's super low approval levels the result of the American people flexing their intelligence and seeing through his propaganda? What about the current GOP Congress historical low approval levels and the Tea Party dismal approval levels (below atheists and muslims)? The intelligent Americans must have seen through their propaganda as well. It isnt a "narrative" that the GOP has been a historical minority opposition party--it is a historical fact. Your narrative is that somehow the GOP represents the majority of Americans when the truth is that it very rarely has in modern times (eg the "silent majority", etc.). I am not a Democrat and would love to see the rise of a credible responsible third political party but history and facts are not fungible. They just are. Check the election results for the last 70-80 years. Simple to see.
1. Give Obama enough time and he'll probably match Bush's low rating. Obama is at 38% right now.2. When you say that It isnt a "narrative" that the GOP has been a historical minority opposition party--it is a historical fact. to defend your view that it is a fact, you are using a logical fallacy called "circular reasoning". Basically, restating (with confidence) your own view as proof that your own view is correct. Also when you say Your narrative is that somehow the GOP represents the majority of Americans is a straw man. I did not say that.
I am restating my own view with confidence as fact because it is a fact that a significant majority of state and federal elections at all levels have been won by Democrats in the last 70 or 80 years (or 50 years or whatever) in this country. Because you dont like that fact does not make it circular reasoning.
 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
Oh please. My premise is only ridiculous if you purposefully or ignorantly misunderstand it and make a completely different argument.I am talking about elected office at every level in the US in modern times, which I clearly define as the last 70-80 years. You are only looking at the last election, when the pendulum swung to the right. And your argument is even lame on a micro level because the year before (2009), the House, Senate, Presidency and I believe even a majority of governorships and statehouses were all in Democratic party hands.

But I am actually looking at this historically because any short period is merely a snapshot and has little weight. But over the last 70-80 years, a significant majority of all the elections in this country for governorships, House seats, Senate seats, the Presidency (closest: about 42 Democratic years to 40 GOP over the last 82 years going back to the beginning of Hoover's awesome Presidency), and all state legislative seats have been won by Democrats.
No, you are mainly addressing the House and Senate. You completely ignore Governors. You also cherry pick your years for the President which happen to have a 5-term Democrat. In more recent times, the last 50 years, the GOP has occupied the White House more often than not. The balance of power between the two parties has not been that significant. Both parties have had their hand in screwing up the country or making it better.
Do you live in a fantasy world where when you say something it becomes fact? I didnt cherry pick my years and I dont care if you use 50 or 70 or 80. Go look up which party has won the majority of state legislative chambers, House seats, Senate seats, and the Presidency, and you will find that even using your 50 year period, the GOP has--except for maybe a couple years of the Executive branch in your cherry picked period--won far less elections overall at every level, governed for far less time periods at state and federal levels, and generally been only a minority opposition party. I know it makes you sad, but these are simple verifiable facts. You just dont like them and it makes you cry inside. I feel for you.
Let's just look at the Presidency....Last 10 years.....GOP 8, Democrat 2

Last 20 years.....GOP 10, Democrat 10

Last 30 years.....GOP 20, Democrat 10

Last 40 years.....GOP 26, Democrat 14

Last 50 years.....GOP 28, Democrat 22

Last 60 years.....GOP 36, Democrat 24

In the US Senate.....Over the last 30 years, the GOP has controlled 16 vs. 14 for the Democrats.

In the US House.....Over the last 20 years, the GOP has controlled 12 vs. 8 for the Democrats, and currently have power.

I don't have time to go through the states, buy you are smoking weed if you think the Democrats have dominated offices in the states. They might dominate a few big states like California and New York, but the GOP dominates in far more states than the Dems.

Your premise is just wrong.

 
The Democrats are also a minority party. HTH.
Not when it comes to elected office in this country in the last 70-80 years. TIA.
Which offices would that be? The US House and Senate. But what about the Presidency. The last 30 years, 20 of them we have had Republican presidents. Most states of Republican governors. Most states are controlled by Republican houses and senates. You are cherry-picking by only looking at the US House and Senate. Everything else is GOP. Even 5 of the 9 Supreme Court nominees are somewhat Conservative. So I think your premise is kind of ridiculous.
Oh please. My premise is only ridiculous if you purposefully or ignorantly misunderstand it and make a completely different argument.I am talking about elected office at every level in the US in modern times, which I clearly define as the last 70-80 years. You are only looking at the last election, when the pendulum swung to the right. And your argument is even lame on a micro level because the year before (2009), the House, Senate, Presidency and I believe even a majority of governorships and statehouses were all in Democratic party hands.

But I am actually looking at this historically because any short period is merely a snapshot and has little weight. But over the last 70-80 years, a significant majority of all the elections in this country for governorships, House seats, Senate seats, the Presidency (closest: about 42 Democratic years to 40 GOP over the last 82 years going back to the beginning of Hoover's awesome Presidency), and all state legislative seats have been won by Democrats.
No, you are mainly addressing the House and Senate. You completely ignore Governors. You also cherry pick your years for the President which happen to have a 5-term Democrat. In more recent times, the last 50 years, the GOP has occupied the White House more often than not. The balance of power between the two parties has not been that significant. Both parties have had their hand in screwing up the country or making it better.
Do you live in a fantasy world where when you say something it becomes fact? I didnt cherry pick my years and I dont care if you use 50 or 70 or 80. Go look up which party has won the majority of state legislative chambers, House seats, Senate seats, and the Presidency, and you will find that even using your 50 year period, the GOP has--except for maybe a couple years of the Executive branch in your cherry picked period--won far less elections overall at every level, governed for far less time periods at state and federal levels, and generally been only a minority opposition party. I know it makes you sad, but these are simple verifiable facts. You just dont like them and it makes you cry inside. I feel for you.
Let's just look at the Presidency....Last 10 years.....GOP 8, Democrat 2

Last 20 years.....GOP 10, Democrat 10

Last 30 years.....GOP 20, Democrat 10

Last 40 years.....GOP 26, Democrat 14

Last 50 years.....GOP 28, Democrat 22

Last 60 years.....GOP 36, Democrat 24

In the US Senate.....Over the last 30 years, the GOP has controlled 16 vs. 14 for the Democrats.

In the US House.....Over the last 20 years, the GOP has controlled 12 vs. 8 for the Democrats, and currently have power.

I don't have time to go through the states, buy you are smoking weed if you think the Democrats have dominated offices in the states. They might dominate a few big states like California and New York, but the GOP dominates in far more states than the Dems.

Your premise is just wrong.
You are wrong about the statehouses but I will wait for you to go figure that out. I agreed with you that there was a sight edge by the GOP on years in the Executive branch but the sheer volume of Democratic legislative majorities in elections dwarfs that slight edge (if you go back 80 years the GOP even loses its slight Executive branch edge). If you add up the total number of US House and Senate elections going back 70-80 years (start in 1929 with Hoover's election, for example), I believe that you will find that roughly two thirds of all elected House and Senate members were Democrats. That is a staggering advantage. By the way, if you want to go farther back to run up some GOP numbers, go ahead. I would like to hear your arguments for how Republicans controlling the Senate in the early 1900's or post Civil War is relevant now. Your ignorance of reality is fascinating, but really beside the point. I have one simple question I would like you to answer if you feel up to it, because in the face of the facts, you are falsely claiming my premise is flawed: Why has the Republican Party controlled the House, Senate and Presidency only ONCE in the last 55 years? Or only three times in the last 82 years (6 years of GW, 2 years of Ike and 2 years of Hoover)? Simple fact: every Democratic President in the last hundred years was trusted by the American people to govern with Democratic control of both houses of Congress for at least one two year period.

I imagine you will tell me that the American people never put the GOP in charge of the US government because they secretly believed in the Republican agenda and trusted them, but the evil media fooled the people into voting for those rascally Democrats, right? But dont let me put words in your mouth, you explain it yourself. Dont tell me, I am ignoring the GOP dominance in the Roaring Twenties!

By the way, this simple chart might help you understand the sheer volume of modern federal congressional dominance by the Democratic party:

Parties in the US Congress

I now it hurts you that the Republican Party is a minority opposition party, but thats what it has been in modern American politics. I am sorry.

 
The first word in the title of this thread is modern. Why are you trying to throw in stuff from 1929 or even 1959 for that matter? 1979 isn't even modern.

 

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