My Rankings: SP, CL, and Holds guys... (1 Viewer)

[The Ghost of Common]

SP:

1. Johan Santana

2. Jake Peavy

3. Brandon Webb

4. Eric Bedard

5. Josh Beckett

6. C.C. Sabathia

7. John Lackey

8. Cole Hamels

9. Scott Kazmir (sans injury)

10. Aaron Harang

11. Carlos Zambrano

12. Danny Haren

13. Felix Hernandez

14. Justin Verlander

15. Roy Oswalt

16. John Smoltz

17. Chris Young

18. Matt Cain

19. Roy Halladay

20. Fausto Carmona

21. Dice K

22. Tin Lincecum

23. Javier Vazquez

24. Brett Myers

25. James Shields

26. Rich Hill

27. Francisco Liriano

28. John Maine

29. Chad Billingsley

30. Kelvim Escobar

31. Brad Penny

32. Yovani Gallardo

33. A.J. Burnett

34. Chien Ming Wang

35. Ian Snell

36. Ben Sheets

37. Ted Lilly

38. Dustin McGowan

39. Jeff Francis

40. Tim Hudson

41. Pedro Martinez

42. Jered Weaver

43. Jeremy Bonderman

44. Phillip Hughes

45. Adam Wainwright

46. Derek Lowe

47. Oliver Perez

48. Joe Blanton

49. Clay Bucholz

50. Barry Zito

CL (I don't draft closers unless its a steal, so I don't really rank many)

1. Pap

2. Putz

3. Nathan

4. KRod

5. Saito

HOLDS (this is where I win my leagues, HOLDS is a category for me so I focus my attention here and draft relievers 8 rounds later than closers)

1. Broxton

2. Bell

3. Betancourt

4. Okajima

5. Shields

6. Rauch

7. Pena (may close)

8. Heilmann

9. Linebrink

10. Morrow

11. Howry

12. Fuentes

13. Lindstrom

14. Accardo

15. Neshek

 

[meeka]

My starter list is pretty close to yours.

Thanks for the Holds list. We have Holds and Losses as catagories in our league so high K setup men are money and can be had late.

 

[Eephus]

I'd like to see Bedard put in a 200 IP season before I rank him that high.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'd like to see Bedard put in a 200 IP season before I rank him that high.

Verlander and Halladay too low also, Haren too high but I like the list at around 15 on. Also Josh Beckett is due an injury this year.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

I don't even know half of those relievers. Is it too much trouble to put teams that these guys play for next to their names?

 

[MAC_32]

-I think you have Lackey really high

-Likewise with Zambrano...but then again I am much lower on him than most

-Carmona's a big injury risk this year given his IP increase last year (CC actually is too), no way I'd have him in the top 20

-I have all your SPs between 21 and 27 ranked higher, Lince K's around #10, Liriano's in the lower teens, all of the others are about 2-4 spots higher than you have them

-The words "sore" and "shoulder" are a very bad mix for a SP, move Escobar down. I'd let someone else worry about him.

-I LOVE Dustin McGowan...and to a lesser degree AJ Burnett

-Pedro Martinez is in my top 30

-Bonderman and Buchholz are both in my top 40, the 35-ish range

As for closers, I look for two guys that fall out of the top 125 and look for guys who have a definite backup who preferably is the 8th inning setup man. I try to draft the team's closer and their setup/handcuff later on, in my 12 team keeper I have been able to acquire Corpas/Fuentes, Joe Bo, Heath Bell (no definitive handcuff in Cleveland and Betancourt went half a round before snagging Bell, who will help in the K/9 and ratio dept's), and Bob Howry (think he'll be the opening day closer...even if he isn't the guy for the whole season). In my 16 teamer I snagged Troy Percival and plan to get Al Reyes at the end, the only closers left are CJ Wilson and George Sherrill. I am hoping to scoop up Wilson in the next round or two and handcuff Benoit to him. These setup guys are often also good for solid ratios and K/9 which is especially important in leagues with IP limits, even if they never get an opportunity to close.

My point being you do not need to draft elite closers, target values later. Same for SP's, just to a lesser degree. A winning staff can be assembled even if your first pitcher isn't picked until after pick 100. I believe I have one of the better staffs in both of my leagues

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

16 teamer

Tim Lincecum

Brett Myers

Dustin McGowan

Pedro Martinez

Clay Buchholz

Troy Percival

This staff is looking at about 65 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 925 K's, 35 saves (once I shore up Al Reyes - 65 saves if I can get the Texas hurlers) in about 950 IP's. I have a 1600 IP cap and three more starting spots to fill, I look to have the making's of a top staff if my later round targets are hits. Don't draft your arms early!

 

[awesomeness]

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

90 wins? Liriano, Burnett, Harden, and Randy Johnson are all mid to high injury prone.

 

[MAC_32]

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

90 wins? Liriano, Burnett, Harden, and Randy Johnson are all mid to high injury prone.

Liriano's not, cases could be made for the others though. There is no statistical evidence indicating that a player returning from TJ surgery is more prone to injury, suffers a decrease in production, or comes back to form. All tests are inconclusive. He is no less inury prone than anyone else, if he were in a BJ Ryan situation in which he may be returning too soon you'd have a point, but he's had almost 2 years to recover. I view the other three as low risk/high reward type players, hell you could lump Bonderman into your injury prone argument too. In this type of league they're easily replaceable. With two rounds remaining guys like Hiroki Kuroda, Greg Maddux, Barry Zito, Jon Garland, Bronson Arroyo, Ryan Dempster, etc. are still available. If I am forced to stream there are options available. I assume this is also true in most leagues. Same can't be said for my 16 teamer, hence why I have been a bit more selective but I'm not one to settle for an average team. I want to win. Guys like these could be the players needed to win. Settling for the Andy Petitte's, Chien Mien Wang's, and Jeff Francis' don't hurt my team but they don't help it either. If you prefer to hoard pitchers early and draft bats late guys like Edgar Renteria, Orlando Hudson, and Todd Helton as a starter's not going to cut it either. You're assuring yourself of being good, but in order to be great you must have a great top of the draft. You don't win the league at the beginning of the draft, but you can lose it. I prefer to play it safer in the early rounds and go for broke later. It's all about risk/reward.

 

[Corporation]

-I think you have Lackey really high

-Likewise with Zambrano...but then again I am much lower on him than most

-Carmona's a big injury risk this year given his IP increase last year (CC actually is too), no way I'd have him in the top 20

-I have all your SPs between 21 and 27 ranked higher, Lince K's around #10, Liriano's in the lower teens, all of the others are about 2-4 spots higher than you have them

-The words "sore" and "shoulder" are a very bad mix for a SP, move Escobar down. I'd let someone else worry about him.

-I LOVE Dustin McGowan...and to a lesser degree AJ Burnett

-Pedro Martinez is in my top 30

-Bonderman and Buchholz are both in my top 40, the 35-ish range

As for closers, I look for two guys that fall out of the top 125 and look for guys who have a definite backup who preferably is the 8th inning setup man. I try to draft the team's closer and their setup/handcuff later on, in my 12 team keeper I have been able to acquire Corpas/Fuentes, Joe Bo, Heath Bell (no definitive handcuff in Cleveland and Betancourt went half a round before snagging Bell, who will help in the K/9 and ratio dept's), and Bob Howry (think he'll be the opening day closer...even if he isn't the guy for the whole season). In my 16 teamer I snagged Troy Percival and plan to get Al Reyes at the end, the only closers left are CJ Wilson and George Sherrill. I am hoping to scoop up Wilson in the next round or two and handcuff Benoit to him. These setup guys are often also good for solid ratios and K/9 which is especially important in leagues with IP limits, even if they never get an opportunity to close.

My point being you do not need to draft elite closers, target values later. Same for SP's, just to a lesser degree. A winning staff can be assembled even if your first pitcher isn't picked until after pick 100. I believe I have one of the better staffs in both of my leagues

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

16 teamer

Tim Lincecum

Brett Myers

Dustin McGowan

Pedro Martinez

Clay Buchholz

Troy Percival

This staff is looking at about 65 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 925 K's, 35 saves (once I shore up Al Reyes - 65 saves if I can get the Texas hurlers) in about 950 IP's. I have a 1600 IP cap and three more starting spots to fill, I look to have the making's of a top staff if my later round targets are hits. Don't draft your arms early!

I agree with you in theory about the closers and to a lesser degree with the starters. Respectfully, there is no way your 12 teamer will hit your goals. I think you would be lucky to get 65 - 70 wins and maybe 60 - 65 saves.

 

[Pnishthm]

-I think you have Lackey really high

-Likewise with Zambrano...but then again I am much lower on him than most

-Carmona's a big injury risk this year given his IP increase last year (CC actually is too), no way I'd have him in the top 20

-I have all your SPs between 21 and 27 ranked higher, Lince K's around #10, Liriano's in the lower teens, all of the others are about 2-4 spots higher than you have them

-The words "sore" and "shoulder" are a very bad mix for a SP, move Escobar down. I'd let someone else worry about him.

-I LOVE Dustin McGowan...and to a lesser degree AJ Burnett

-Pedro Martinez is in my top 30

-Bonderman and Buchholz are both in my top 40, the 35-ish range

As for closers, I look for two guys that fall out of the top 125 and look for guys who have a definite backup who preferably is the 8th inning setup man. I try to draft the team's closer and their setup/handcuff later on, in my 12 team keeper I have been able to acquire Corpas/Fuentes, Joe Bo, Heath Bell (no definitive handcuff in Cleveland and Betancourt went half a round before snagging Bell, who will help in the K/9 and ratio dept's), and Bob Howry (think he'll be the opening day closer...even if he isn't the guy for the whole season). In my 16 teamer I snagged Troy Percival and plan to get Al Reyes at the end, the only closers left are CJ Wilson and George Sherrill. I am hoping to scoop up Wilson in the next round or two and handcuff Benoit to him. These setup guys are often also good for solid ratios and K/9 which is especially important in leagues with IP limits, even if they never get an opportunity to close.

My point being you do not need to draft elite closers, target values later. Same for SP's, just to a lesser degree. A winning staff can be assembled even if your first pitcher isn't picked until after pick 100. I believe I have one of the better staffs in both of my leagues

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

16 teamer

Tim Lincecum

Brett Myers

Dustin McGowan

Pedro Martinez

Clay Buchholz

Troy Percival

This staff is looking at about 65 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 925 K's, 35 saves (once I shore up Al Reyes - 65 saves if I can get the Texas hurlers) in about 950 IP's. I have a 1600 IP cap and three more starting spots to fill, I look to have the making's of a top staff if my later round targets are hits. Don't draft your arms early!

I agree with you in theory about the closers and to a lesser degree with the starters. Respectfully, there is no way your 12 teamer will hit your goals. I think you would be lucky to get 65 - 70 wins and maybe 60 - 65 saves.

I also think his 16 teamer will have an ERA around the 4.00 mark.

 

[MAC_32]

-I think you have Lackey really high

-Likewise with Zambrano...but then again I am much lower on him than most

-Carmona's a big injury risk this year given his IP increase last year (CC actually is too), no way I'd have him in the top 20

-I have all your SPs between 21 and 27 ranked higher, Lince K's around #10, Liriano's in the lower teens, all of the others are about 2-4 spots higher than you have them

-The words "sore" and "shoulder" are a very bad mix for a SP, move Escobar down. I'd let someone else worry about him.

-I LOVE Dustin McGowan...and to a lesser degree AJ Burnett

-Pedro Martinez is in my top 30

-Bonderman and Buchholz are both in my top 40, the 35-ish range

As for closers, I look for two guys that fall out of the top 125 and look for guys who have a definite backup who preferably is the 8th inning setup man. I try to draft the team's closer and their setup/handcuff later on, in my 12 team keeper I have been able to acquire Corpas/Fuentes, Joe Bo, Heath Bell (no definitive handcuff in Cleveland and Betancourt went half a round before snagging Bell, who will help in the K/9 and ratio dept's), and Bob Howry (think he'll be the opening day closer...even if he isn't the guy for the whole season). In my 16 teamer I snagged Troy Percival and plan to get Al Reyes at the end, the only closers left are CJ Wilson and George Sherrill. I am hoping to scoop up Wilson in the next round or two and handcuff Benoit to him. These setup guys are often also good for solid ratios and K/9 which is especially important in leagues with IP limits, even if they never get an opportunity to close.

My point being you do not need to draft elite closers, target values later. Same for SP's, just to a lesser degree. A winning staff can be assembled even if your first pitcher isn't picked until after pick 100. I believe I have one of the better staffs in both of my leagues

12 team keeper

Francisco Liriano

Matt Cain

AJ Burnett

Jeremy Bonderman

Rich Harden

Randy Johnson

Manny Corpas

Joe Bo

Heath Bell

Bob Howry

Brian Fuentes

This staff is looking at about 90 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 1300 K's, 85 saves all while staying under the 1350 IP cap.

16 teamer

Tim Lincecum

Brett Myers

Dustin McGowan

Pedro Martinez

Clay Buchholz

Troy Percival

This staff is looking at about 65 wins, a 3.5 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 925 K's, 35 saves (once I shore up Al Reyes - 65 saves if I can get the Texas hurlers) in about 950 IP's. I have a 1600 IP cap and three more starting spots to fill, I look to have the making's of a top staff if my later round targets are hits. Don't draft your arms early!

I agree with you in theory about the closers and to a lesser degree with the starters. Respectfully, there is no way your 12 teamer will hit your goals. I think you would be lucky to get 65 - 70 wins and maybe 60 - 65 saves.

My 12 teamer projections will hit if they hit my IP projections, all of which are in the 130-170 range. If they're injured this league is shallow enough that there will be talent available on the wire to plug-in as it is a daily lineup setting league, with 4 DL spots I am looking to maximize the efficiency of my IP's and these low risk/high reward guys offer that. I just added Greg Maddux to that staff in the last round to use in Petco games, planning on one of my risks to not meet their projections. I have Corpas/Fuentes projected for 40 combined saves, Joe Bo for 35, and Bob Howry conservatively projected for 5...could be quite a bit more. Of course I could just get 60 saves you never know, but a full season out of Joe Bo and barring something strange happening in Colorado I find it hard to believe you can expect less than 70.

 

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Also Josh Beckett is due an injury this year.

Why?