Limp Ditka
Footballguy
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Napoli Headed To Texas via Toronto (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Limp Ditka
- Start date
Captain Hook
Footballguy
likely deal is Napoli and Rivera for Wells
Zegras11
Footballguy
Rivera sucks. Never gets a clutch hit.Conger better hitter in long run than Napoli. Mathis FAR greater catcher than Napoli.Abeau-Wells-Hunter OF pretty strong. Even stronger with Bourjos in OF and Abreau at DH
whoknew
Footballguy
2011: $23mm2012: $21mm2013: $21mm2014: $21mm
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Toronto has to be swallowing some of that contract.
whoknew
Footballguy
Not according to reports.jonmorosi Jon Morosi Source confirms to FOXSports.com: No cash involved in Wells trade. Straight 2-for-1. #Angels #BlueJays #Toronto #LA
Zegras11
Footballguy
so what. Rivera is making like 5.5 Napoli wants 6.1Bourjos and Conger are rookies with way more potential and need playing time.Subtract Nap and Rivera's salaries and the deal is fine.
whoknew
Footballguy
Huh?Napoli and Rivera were only under contract for 2011 ($5.5 and $3.5). So, I guess you can say this deal costs:2011: $14mm2012: $21mm2013: $21mm2014: $21mmOf course, that doesn't take into account any of the much, much, much better deals the Angels could have made - at least for Napoli.So how was this a good deal for ANA?
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Jays get decent talent, and don't have to pay any of Vernon's contract? That's a steal of epic proportions.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Napoli hit .238. He whiffs a lot. What much, much, much, better deal could have been made?I think the Angels can afford this deal.It makes them a better team on the field, something you don't seem to comprehend.Again, Mathis is leaps ahead of Nap as a defensive C.Conger is a better hitter than Napoli and does not need anymore AAA.Rivera blows and is a 4th OF'er at best and breaks down when he plays everyday. Bourjos is much better suited to be 4th OF'er now. Or everyday OF and Abreau at DH.Wells hit 31 HR 44 2B, slugged .515 last year.Wells/Conger FAR greater than Napoli/Rivera on the field.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Other than $$ this is a good deal for the Angels. Including the $$ this is a good deal for the Jays. The Angels have lots of $$ so the expensive contract doesn't hurt them. Good deal for both teams.
Eephus
Footballguy
A bad contract is a bad contract, although Anaheim can absorb the hit better. We'll have to wait and see until the final deal but it's hard to believe some money isn't coming west with Wells.A defensive OF of Wells-Bourjos-Hunter would be excellent, with Mike Trout two years away.ETA: I don't care how good Jeff Mathis' glove is. It can't make up for his bat.
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whoknew
Footballguy
Reaction To The Vernon Wells Trade
By Mark Polishuk [January 21, 2011 at 9:39pm CST]
Pundits are already chiming in on the huge Vernon Wells-for Mike Napoli/Juan Rivera trade between the Angels and Blue Jays this evening. A sampling...
The trade "had the air of desperation" to it, says Mark Saxon of ESPNLosAngeles.com. Saxon counts this trade along with the Scott Kazmir deal as cases of the Angels taking "other teams' financial problems off their hands." On the plus side, Saxon points out that Wells and Torii Hunter are ideal candidates to mentor Mike Trout, the Halos' center fielder of the future.
Wells is "absolutely the wrong player right now for the Angels, who have made one the worst desperation moves I can remember," writes Keith Law of ESPN.com. Law points out that with all of the money Toronto is saving with Wells' contract off the books, the Jays "could become very good, very fast."
Acquiring Wells for Rivera and Napoli added roughly $75MM to the Angels' payroll over the next four years, and Fangraphs' Dave Cameron looks at what else the Halos could've bought with that money this winter.
"It's hard to get away from the thought that [the Angels] were better off when they were doing nothing," writes Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. Knobler thinks the Angels are taking a big risk in acquiring Wells, who does nothing to "change an Angels offense that has gotten older and less athletic as the years have gone on."
Ken Fidlin of the Toronto Star looks at how the trade alters the Jays' lineup and thinks Alex Anthopoulos may have to make another deal to fill a few holes.
Anthopoulos has only been the Blue Jays' GM since October 2009, but Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star tweets that this deal might already be Anthopoulos "best deal...ever." Griffin also tweets that the trade could "be the first step to signing [Jose] Bautista long-term."
The Jays and Rays weren't the only AL East team with an interest in Napoli. The Red Sox looked at Napoli earlier this winter but their interest waned after acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, reports WEEI.com's Rob Bradford. Boston didn't feel Napoli was a legitimate starting catching option; the club wanted him as a first baseman and emergency catcher. The Sox put in a waiver claim for Napoli last summer.
ESPN.com's Mark Simon looks at some Wells statistics that will trouble Angels fans -- the center fielder's odd decline against left-handed pitching and his home/road splits away from the Rogers Centre.
By Mark Polishuk [January 21, 2011 at 9:39pm CST]
Pundits are already chiming in on the huge Vernon Wells-for Mike Napoli/Juan Rivera trade between the Angels and Blue Jays this evening. A sampling...
The trade "had the air of desperation" to it, says Mark Saxon of ESPNLosAngeles.com. Saxon counts this trade along with the Scott Kazmir deal as cases of the Angels taking "other teams' financial problems off their hands." On the plus side, Saxon points out that Wells and Torii Hunter are ideal candidates to mentor Mike Trout, the Halos' center fielder of the future.
Wells is "absolutely the wrong player right now for the Angels, who have made one the worst desperation moves I can remember," writes Keith Law of ESPN.com. Law points out that with all of the money Toronto is saving with Wells' contract off the books, the Jays "could become very good, very fast."
Acquiring Wells for Rivera and Napoli added roughly $75MM to the Angels' payroll over the next four years, and Fangraphs' Dave Cameron looks at what else the Halos could've bought with that money this winter.
"It's hard to get away from the thought that [the Angels] were better off when they were doing nothing," writes Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. Knobler thinks the Angels are taking a big risk in acquiring Wells, who does nothing to "change an Angels offense that has gotten older and less athletic as the years have gone on."
Ken Fidlin of the Toronto Star looks at how the trade alters the Jays' lineup and thinks Alex Anthopoulos may have to make another deal to fill a few holes.
Anthopoulos has only been the Blue Jays' GM since October 2009, but Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star tweets that this deal might already be Anthopoulos "best deal...ever." Griffin also tweets that the trade could "be the first step to signing [Jose] Bautista long-term."
The Jays and Rays weren't the only AL East team with an interest in Napoli. The Red Sox looked at Napoli earlier this winter but their interest waned after acquiring Adrian Gonzalez, reports WEEI.com's Rob Bradford. Boston didn't feel Napoli was a legitimate starting catching option; the club wanted him as a first baseman and emergency catcher. The Sox put in a waiver claim for Napoli last summer.
ESPN.com's Mark Simon looks at some Wells statistics that will trouble Angels fans -- the center fielder's odd decline against left-handed pitching and his home/road splits away from the Rogers Centre.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Wells is a good (not great) player and a class act who has done a ton in the community in both Toronto and Texas, I really like him, but that contract was/is ridiculous and its pretty shocking they were able to move it without eating any cash. Gives the Jays pretty good flexibility going forward. They've built the farm system up to the point where they're universally ranked in the top 5 in MLB, moving that contract frees up 86 million dollars to ensure when guys are ready to be resigned, they can keep them around. The idea is for the Jays to be built much like the Rays, but actually be able to keep some of their own free agents...
the moops
Footballguy
Rivera's career stats.789 OPS2 outs, RISP.913 OPSRISP.842 OPSVernon Wells career.804 OPS2 outs, RISP.804 OPSRISP.813 OPS
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I've never understood why the Angels hated Napoli so much.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Why? It makes their team better. I realize the Angels are becoming a dumping ground for contracts and that might have an effect at some point...but right now? I'd much rather face a team that has Rivera instead of Wells.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Twice in 10 years he played over 125 games and only 134/138 at that. Wells has only ONE season in last 10 under 134, and six at 154-161 and another at 149.Had Juan played THAT many games, his numbers you posted would be much lower.He's either hurt, somewhat platooned or he goes long periods where he just does not produce.2010 - 1 hr 11 rbi in 34 games in Aug/Sept2009 - good year, but 1/3 of HR and 30% of RBI in month of June. .198 in SEPT2008 - mostly hurt one good month2007 - 14 games total2006 - 11 of 23 HR in July. hurt several times first half.Only twice in his career did he posts back-to-back 15 RBI months. Wells has done it 13 times.The Angels needed someone that can drive in some runs and play every day. The salary is high for sure, but they are a much better team with Wells in the lineup and giving Bourjos and Conger more time to play. Napoli struck out 51 times more in 145 less AB than Wells. That right there is going to help the Angels offense big time. Napoli played almost FT last year and his BA, OBP and SLUG took MAJOR hits. Like Rivera, he best suited to play 100-120 games only.
scoobus
Footballguy
Because I care about the future as well. He does make them better this year, but I don't think incredibly better. He's 32, and has the worst contract in baseball. This should definitely make the angels one of the best defensive teams as far as the outfield goes, but as a leftfielder (unless for some reason they don't play Bourjos in CF), his numbers really aren't all that special, and he's going to a much worse hitting park.His lifetime stats at Angel Stadium: 159 ABs, .226/.267/.340 , 3 HR ,19 RBIs - although obviously a small sample size.But mostly it's about the contract.Plus getting to see Jeff Mathis "bat" a few more times a year.
Balco
Footballguy
Alex Anthopoulos is now the front runner for executive of the year. I cannot believe he was able to get rid of Wells' albatross of a contract. And not only that, he got a couple useful players in return. Rivera and Napoli should both be solid contributors to the Jays next season.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
The Jays actually got pretty good value out of Wells contract. It was heavily backloaded, so over the last 3 years, they paid him $40 million.
2008 (paid $9 million) he was injured but still managed 20HR/78RBI/.300 avg in 108 games
2009 (paid $10 million) he played a full year with weak numbers 15HR/66RBI/.260 avg in 158 games
2010 (paid $21 million) he had a great season: 31HR/88RBI/.273 avg in 157 games
Not sure the Angels will get the same value out of the remaining 4 years /$86 million. Also, Wells can't stay in centre field very much longer, his defense has declined a lot the past couple years.
2008 (paid $9 million) he was injured but still managed 20HR/78RBI/.300 avg in 108 games
2009 (paid $10 million) he played a full year with weak numbers 15HR/66RBI/.260 avg in 158 games
2010 (paid $21 million) he had a great season: 31HR/88RBI/.273 avg in 157 games
Not sure the Angels will get the same value out of the remaining 4 years /$86 million. Also, Wells can't stay in centre field very much longer, his defense has declined a lot the past couple years.
the moops
Footballguy
He has 3000 plate appearances. I think that is a large enough sample to draw some conclusions.
the moops
Footballguy
Fangraphs has his on field value as 22.6 million over the past 3 years (6.6, .1, 15.9).His 2009 was so terrible that there was zero chance that he was going to live up to anywhere near his deal.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Crap. Like that team needed more firepower.
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
I liked Napoli going to Toronto, I LOVE him going to Texas.
Looks like I found my catcher target for this year
Looks like I found my catcher target for this year
scoobus
Footballguy
Well he won't be an everyday player (or playing catcher)I liked Napoli going to Toronto, I LOVE him going to Texas.Looks like I found my catcher target for this year
Balco
Footballguy
He didn't play everyday with the Angels wither. He should be a cheap source of homers at the catcher position.With that said, I think the Blue Jays won this deal.Well he won't be an everyday player (or playing catcher)I liked Napoli going to Toronto, I LOVE him going to Texas.Looks like I found my catcher target for this year
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
As long as he has a C next to his name and gets enough ABs at C/1B/DH or wherever I'm happy. I burned early picks on catchers like McCann and VMart the last few years and it was not worth it at all. On the flip side the guys you usually get late are just flat awful most of the time, so Napoli really looks like a happy medium to me.scoobus said:Well he won't be an everyday player (or playing catcher)KiddLattimer said:I liked Napoli going to Toronto, I LOVE him going to Texas.Looks like I found my catcher target for this year
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Despite being an A's fan I live in the middle of Angel territory. A big part of the current backlash is due to him ending up within the division. But fans did like the guy. He can't field to save his life but he's always been a hard working guy and hasn't complained when the team continually screwed him by benching him for Mathis (I don't care how questionable his defense is...Mathis had no business starting over him with any regularity). He doesn't have any amazing shtick but he is always friendly to all his fans and signs tons of autographs. He just seems like he always has a smile on his face and he's the type of player every team would love to have. And he has gobs of power. I'm not happy about his bat in that ballpark with that lineup.
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culdeus
Footballguy
Bogart
Footballguy
No. What does he do?I want someone to do the Babe Ruth quick walk when they hit a homer.
