*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[Good Posting Judge]

This league is so fixed it makes me sick.What a joke

Yeah, how do those huge markets like San Antonio and OKC expect to compete????

they get lucky.Watch where Durant and Hardin and Westbrook end up. boston,NYk, Chicago. Its gonna happen.

Durant and Westbrook already signed extensions.

Just like Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Chris Bosh... I ####### hate that argument. Hypothetically, how would you have proposed Durant and Westbrook get out of OKC prior to signing extensions, if that is what they wanted to do?

Not sign extensions?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Lakers have sick depth up front. But no shooters and no outside shooting.

You mean besides Bryant and Nash?

The best shot on the floor for opposing teams for the next year or two is going to be a Bryant jump shot. Kobe shot 30% from 3 last year and hasn't hit 33% for 3 years running. Even better for teams if those inaccurate 3s turn into inaccurate long 2s.

I figure with Nash on board, the degree of difficulty for Bryant's shots will go down quite a bit and his FG% should go up this year. You're not really saying teams should give Bryant open looks, are you?

Bryant is getting the same shots with the Olympic team that he got with the Lakers the last couple years, I don't see him suddenly running of screens or something. He's still going to want isolations. And I don't think teams should give Kobe open looks but if a guard is cheating down to help on Howard, it would be a much better idea for that guy to come off Kobe than Nash.But, if teams can force Kobe outside and have him continue to shoot jump shots like he did last year, I think that is a positive for the opposing team.

You mean the Olympic team on which he's shooting 42% from 3?

He's bringing down the team average.

And how does anyone have an Assist-to-Turnover Ratio < 1 on a team with that much talent?

While shooting 40% from the field. Its not like Melo who seems to be the best option. Kobe is taking the rest of the teams shots and not doing it effectively.

This isn't surprising to you, is it?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pretty good point made on Deadspin:

Dwight Howard is going the be a Laker, and aside from turning the Lakers into serious title contenders, not to mention the kind of superteam that David Stern's moronic lockout was supposed to prevent from ever forming, Howard's arrival in L.A. brings the league to a philosophical crossroads.

We'll get to that in a second. First, let's remember something: David Stern and the owners did everything they could to convince us that their lockout was about restoring competitive balance to the league by restricting player movement and thus the building of superteams. That line of reasoning was always specious and not a little cynical. Superteams come together because of maximum salaries, not despite them. There is a maximum dollar amount that Dwight Howard can make each year, and that dollar amount doesn't approach his value on an open market. If Howard—or any other great player—can't get true value out of his contract, he'll go looking for it in other places: on a great team in a large market, for instance. The max salary limits the very best thing that teams like Orlando have to offer: money.

Los Angeles gamed the system in a way that the Knicks and Clippers weren't able to. Those latter two teams got the unhappy superstars they'd targeted, but there was a hastiness about the transactions that added some semblance of fairness to the deals. The Knicks panicked and gave away far more assets than they needed to in order to acquire Anthony, and the Clippers were eager enough to jump into the L.A. spotlight that they sent Eric Gordon, their second-best player at the time, to the Hornets (who had lost any negotiating leverage they might have had when Stern scotched their first Paul trade, to the Lakers).

Even the formation of the Miami Heat's superteam, with all its premeditation, was not without its share of clumsiness. The Heat are hardly a perfectly constructed NBA team, more the product of certain stars aligning than of cold-eyed longterm calculation.

The Lakers knew better than to panic. They slow-played the Magic into gifting them Dwight Howard. There were any number of times over the course of the offseason that they could have gotten anxious and shipped both Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol out of town to get Howard. But they waited, knowing that the league is tilted in their favor even post-lockout, and eventually got the trade they wanted all along.

The Lakers haven't just constructed a superteam; they've constructed an idealized version of a great NBA ensemble. They have their distributing point guard in Steve Nash; their scoring two-guard in Kobe Bryant; their classic big man in Dwight Howard; and a versatile, do-anything power forward in Pau Gasol. This team may as well have been grown in a lab.

The Lakers now stand athwart everything the Thunder-Heat finals seemed to portend for the NBA: nothing short of a new era, one defined by hybridization and positional flexibility. Guerrilla basketball. Both Oklahoma City and Miami featured players who refused to fit into any particular mold, and yet both teams managed to find ways to unleash the talents of their players by eschewing the conventions of playing style and lineup construction.

That made for great, dynamic basketball, but it wasn't an easy thing to accomplish. The Heat seemed to shrug into and out of different identities every few weeks, and the Thunder spent years carefully and patiently constructing a winning team through the draft and many clever, small-bore acquisitions. The Thunder do not have an ideal roster, but they have one that succeeds because they worked so hard to make it succeed. The future was at hand.

Not anymore. The Lakers have gone and bought themselves a ready-made all-star roster. Dwight Howard will assume his place as fourth-best center in the team's history in L.A., behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly of the Milwaukee Bucks), Wilt Chamberlain (formerly of the Warriors and Sixers), and Shaquille O'Neal (formerly of the Magic). We needed the lockout, according to the NBA, to open the door for more teams like the Thunder. Instead, here come the same old Lakers.

 

[thecatch]

Pretty good point made on Deadspin:

Dwight Howard is going the be a Laker, and aside from turning the Lakers into serious title contenders, not to mention the kind of superteam that David Stern's moronic lockout was supposed to prevent from ever forming, Howard's arrival in L.A. brings the league to a philosophical crossroads.

We'll get to that in a second. First, let's remember something: David Stern and the owners did everything they could to convince us that their lockout was about restoring competitive balance to the league by restricting player movement and thus the building of superteams. That line of reasoning was always specious and not a little cynical. Superteams come together because of maximum salaries, not despite them. There is a maximum dollar amount that Dwight Howard can make each year, and that dollar amount doesn't approach his value on an open market. If Howard—or any other great player—can't get true value out of his contract, he'll go looking for it in other places: on a great team in a large market, for instance. The max salary limits the very best thing that teams like Orlando have to offer: money.

Los Angeles gamed the system in a way that the Knicks and Clippers weren't able to. Those latter two teams got the unhappy superstars they'd targeted, but there was a hastiness about the transactions that added some semblance of fairness to the deals. The Knicks panicked and gave away far more assets than they needed to in order to acquire Anthony, and the Clippers were eager enough to jump into the L.A. spotlight that they sent Eric Gordon, their second-best player at the time, to the Hornets (who had lost any negotiating leverage they might have had when Stern scotched their first Paul trade, to the Lakers).

Even the formation of the Miami Heat's superteam, with all its premeditation, was not without its share of clumsiness. The Heat are hardly a perfectly constructed NBA team, more the product of certain stars aligning than of cold-eyed longterm calculation.

The Lakers knew better than to panic. They slow-played the Magic into gifting them Dwight Howard. There were any number of times over the course of the offseason that they could have gotten anxious and shipped both Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol out of town to get Howard. But they waited, knowing that the league is tilted in their favor even post-lockout, and eventually got the trade they wanted all along.

The Lakers haven't just constructed a superteam; they've constructed an idealized version of a great NBA ensemble. They have their distributing point guard in Steve Nash; their scoring two-guard in Kobe Bryant; their classic big man in Dwight Howard; and a versatile, do-anything power forward in Pau Gasol. This team may as well have been grown in a lab.

The Lakers now stand athwart everything the Thunder-Heat finals seemed to portend for the NBA: nothing short of a new era, one defined by hybridization and positional flexibility. Guerrilla basketball. Both Oklahoma City and Miami featured players who refused to fit into any particular mold, and yet both teams managed to find ways to unleash the talents of their players by eschewing the conventions of playing style and lineup construction.

That made for great, dynamic basketball, but it wasn't an easy thing to accomplish. The Heat seemed to shrug into and out of different identities every few weeks, and the Thunder spent years carefully and patiently constructing a winning team through the draft and many clever, small-bore acquisitions. The Thunder do not have an ideal roster, but they have one that succeeds because they worked so hard to make it succeed. The future was at hand.

Not anymore. The Lakers have gone and bought themselves a ready-made all-star roster. Dwight Howard will assume his place as fourth-best center in the team's history in L.A., behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly of the Milwaukee Bucks), Wilt Chamberlain (formerly of the Warriors and Sixers), and Shaquille O'Neal (formerly of the Magic). We needed the lockout, according to the NBA, to open the door for more teams like the Thunder. Instead, here come the same old Lakers.

Exactly. A hard cap and no salary restrictions what so ever would be ideal and would far more efficiently allocate player salaries.

 

[pollardsvision]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?

They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.

They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those.

I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

Or maybe teams realized they didn't want a piece of crap like Howard as the face of their franchise and that is all that was on the table.

 

[drummer]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

Or maybe teams realized they didn't want a piece of crap like Howard as the face of their franchise and that is all that was on the table.

Marc Cuban says

 

[Premier]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

People really aren't talking enough about this back thing. Those always get better, right?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

My guess is... they got #1 from Lakers. (late)#1 from Nuggets. (mid-late)#1 from Sixers. (mid-late)#1 2012 (16th overall) from Sixers swingman Maurice Harkless.#1 2011 (15th overall) from Sixers 7-footer Nikola Vucevic. They can now play and trade... Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington. Possibly another #1.Dumped Richardson and will now just need to move Turk when they trade one of the above to a contender.And when they move them, they are going straight into the LOTTERY for 2013.Finally they could have a boatload of cap space when several big free agents hit the market in 2013.

 

[timschochet]

Jodie Meeks appears to solve a lot of bench problems for the Lakers. He can spell both Nash and Kobe, provide outside shooting. Just another great add for the Lakers. Amazing summer.

 

[Kev4029]

Jodie Meeks appears to solve a lot of bench problems for the Lakers. He can spell both Nash and Kobe, provide outside shooting. Just another great add for the Lakers. Amazing summer.

He can't play PG, not even a little bit.Great signing though.

 

[timschochet]

Watching Dwight right now at the press conference. He's a very funny, very likable guy. Maybe he'll be hated like LeBron, but I kind of doubt it after watching him here.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Watching Dwight right now at the press conference. He's a very funny, very likable guy. Maybe he'll be hated like LeBron, but I kind of doubt it after watching him here.

Bet that is what the kids at his camp thought too. Oh wait...

 

[drummer]

Watching Dwight right now at the press conference. He's a very funny, very likable guy. Maybe he'll be hated like LeBron, but I kind of doubt it after watching him here.

Bet that is what the kids at his camp thought too. Oh wait...

Bet Skribs waited all day to post that one. Shame on tim for setting up such stinky bait.

 

[Premier]

Of course he's going to be a great guy at his introductory press conference.

Dwight has always appeared to be a terrific, nice guy. That's what made this last year even more astounding. But whatever, dude can ball.

 

[Britney Spears]

I also think this concern about the Lakers not having enough shooters is overstated. Howard frees up Gasol to shoot from 10-15 feet, frees up Kobe to shoot from 15-20 feet, and Nash is a very good shooter as well. Jamison REALLY improves scoring from the bench. No NBA team is perfect. Last year's champions are lacking a center and a point guard. I think this Laker team is pretty complete, and on paper should be the favorites to win it all.

Unfortunately, I think I agree. : ( This feels an awful lot like when the Lakers got Shaq, then Gasol. Really no way around the fact that they have had the best front court for years, now it's even better. If the whole Odom thing didn't happen it would be even worse.

 

[Britney Spears]

Should be interesting to see if the public hates and roots against Howard with the same passion they did against LeBron, considering the way Howard got himself out of Orlando was much worse (holding a franchise hostage for two years and forcing a trade vs leaving via free agency), and Howard is by far the bigger tool and far easier to root against.

He's also now on the league's most hated team, so I'm sure he'll get a high level of flak.

Sorry friend, the most hated NBA team is the Miami Heat.

 

[Britney Spears]

Lakers have sick depth up front. But no shooters and no outside shooting.

You mean besides Bryant and Nash?

The best shot on the floor for opposing teams for the next year or two is going to be a Bryant jump shot. Kobe shot 30% from 3 last year and hasn't hit 33% for 3 years running. Even better for teams if those inaccurate 3s turn into inaccurate long 2s.

I figure with Nash on board, the degree of difficulty for Bryant's shots will go down quite a bit and his FG% should go up this year. You're not really saying teams should give Bryant open looks, are you?

Bryant is getting the same shots with the Olympic team that he got with the Lakers the last couple years, I don't see him suddenly running of screens or something. He's still going to want isolations. And I don't think teams should give Kobe open looks but if a guard is cheating down to help on Howard, it would be a much better idea for that guy to come off Kobe than Nash.But, if teams can force Kobe outside and have him continue to shoot jump shots like he did last year, I think that is a positive for the opposing team.

You mean the Olympic team on which he's shooting 42% from 3?

He's bringing down the team average.

And how does anyone have an Assist-to-Turnover Ratio < 1 on a team with that much talent?

While shooting 40% from the field. Its not like Melo who seems to be the best option. Kobe is taking the rest of the teams shots and not doing it effectively.

Kobe is unquestionably the worst player on the Olympic team at this point.

 

[Abraham]

Should be interesting to see if the public hates and roots against Howard with the same passion they did against LeBron, considering the way Howard got himself out of Orlando was much worse (holding a franchise hostage for two years and forcing a trade vs leaving via free agency), and Howard is by far the bigger tool and far easier to root against.

He's also now on the league's most hated team, so I'm sure he'll get a high level of flak.

Sorry friend, the most hated NBA team is the Miami Heat.

Disagree. It's the lakers. By a long shot. Anyone who likes basketball has forgiven lebron his transgressions because he is so good. It's a crime against being a fan to not root for amazing play, and he is amazing. I want durant to get one. I want the rockets to be good. But until then I will watch in admiration as lebron continues to put to rest any debate about who the best player since Jordan is.

 

[drummer]

Lakers have sick depth up front. But no shooters and no outside shooting.

You mean besides Bryant and Nash?

The best shot on the floor for opposing teams for the next year or two is going to be a Bryant jump shot. Kobe shot 30% from 3 last year and hasn't hit 33% for 3 years running. Even better for teams if those inaccurate 3s turn into inaccurate long 2s.

I figure with Nash on board, the degree of difficulty for Bryant's shots will go down quite a bit and his FG% should go up this year. You're not really saying teams should give Bryant open looks, are you?

Bryant is getting the same shots with the Olympic team that he got with the Lakers the last couple years, I don't see him suddenly running of screens or something. He's still going to want isolations. And I don't think teams should give Kobe open looks but if a guard is cheating down to help on Howard, it would be a much better idea for that guy to come off Kobe than Nash.But, if teams can force Kobe outside and have him continue to shoot jump shots like he did last year, I think that is a positive for the opposing team.

You mean the Olympic team on which he's shooting 42% from 3?

He's bringing down the team average.

And how does anyone have an Assist-to-Turnover Ratio < 1 on a team with that much talent?

While shooting 40% from the field. Its not like Melo who seems to be the best option. Kobe is taking the rest of the teams shots and not doing it effectively.

Kobe is unquestionably the worst player on the Olympic team at this point.

Just keep posting. It's hilarious.

 

[tommyGunZ]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

People really aren't talking enough about this back thing. Those always get better, right?

straws, meet grasp.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I hate Milwaukee most.

 

[drummer]

If I was gonna hate an NBA team it would be Golden State for the mockery of a Franchise they have been.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

If I was gonna hate an NBA team it would be Golden State for the mockery of a Franchise they have been.

1) Why did you capitalize "franchise"?2) When LA gets a football team, will you root for them?

 

[drummer]

If I was gonna hate an NBA team it would be Golden State for the mockery of a franchise they have been.

1) Why did you capitalize "franchise"?2) When LA gets a football team, will you root for them?

1) Out of habit I guess. I'll edit it back to lower case. You're Welcome. 2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply. Then you are hungry for tacos.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

 

[drummer]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

He's not bashing them, he's chronicling their ineptitude (and bad luck, to be fair) over the last three decades, and how that justifies booing Lacob. There's a difference. I believe he's acknowledged that GS fans are great and deserve better (#44). But the new regime is still making mistakes (trading for Jefferson, not amnestying Biedrins), which almost always offset the good things. Same ####, different owners.The title of the article is a bit misleading as well, as not all 60 steps listed are negative (e.g. #14). But a few consistent themes stick out: They care about size over basketball talent in the draft and on the FA market, often with disastrous results (conversely, they've gotten good results with the guards they drafted: Spree, Arenas, Curry, etc. etc.), and they're too quick to tear down and rebuild. I make a point of not trying to eat in San Jose. Were you born in NorCal or SoCal?

 

[drummer]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

He's not bashing them, he's chronicling their ineptitude (and bad luck, to be fair) over the last three decades, and how that justifies booing Lacob. There's a difference. I believe he's acknowledged that GS fans are great and deserve better (#44). But the new regime is still making mistakes (trading for Jefferson, not amnestying Biedrins), which almost always offset the good things. Same ####, different owners.The title of the article is a bit misleading as well, as not all 60 steps listed are negative (e.g. #14). But a few consistent themes stick out: They care about size over basketball talent in the draft and on the FA market, often with disastrous results (conversely, they've gotten good results with the guards they drafted: Spree, Arenas, Curry, etc. etc.), and they're too quick to tear down and rebuild.

I make a point of not trying to eat in San Jose. Were you born in NorCal or SoCal?

I think GS fans are awesome. A GS fan linked that story to me a while back, and having lived in SF for most of my adult life, I always supported GS and their fans. I lived there during the height of the awesome Run TMC, got pissed at Chris Webber being a baby, and was even more pissed at that idiot who choked Carlisemo. I was a long time KNBR listener who heard the pain of Warrior fans talking Ralph and Tom, wondered why Nellie had so much control over the franchise, thought Mullin got a raw deal in the FO, and so on. This while being a born and bred Laker fan who was born in SoCal, but had family who lived the the Bay Area and who I visited since I was a child. I became a 49er fan in 1976-77 because of my trips to SF, which I eventually moved to in my early twenties, and lived for well over a decade. I have since moved back to SoCal, but all my friends and family know am a San Franciscan at heart, and that SF is my true home. Which I will return to when I am done doing other things. So that's it man. The whole "hate a team" thing is kinda whack, and the only real reason I say that about GS is because that franchise was and still is a mess. I would be one frustrated mofo being a GS die hard, but I don't hate the fans. I mean, GS hired Mark Jackson for coach. WTF?

Hell, I root for the 49ers who sucked after Policy left that team in ruins, and had an idiot take over to make it worse. Plus, the post Showtime era with Elden and Del Harris was no fun either.

BTW, San Jose has some good food. I don't care to go there that often, but at least they have an Amici's.

Go San Jose 49ers in 2014 or whenever that stadium in craphole Santa Clara is finished. There is one place where you can't find a good taco.

 

[No. 16]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

He's not bashing them, he's chronicling their ineptitude (and bad luck, to be fair) over the last three decades, and how that justifies booing Lacob. There's a difference. I believe he's acknowledged that GS fans are great and deserve better (#44). But the new regime is still making mistakes (trading for Jefferson, not amnestying Biedrins), which almost always offset the good things. Same ####, different owners.The title of the article is a bit misleading as well, as not all 60 steps listed are negative (e.g. #14). But a few consistent themes stick out: They care about size over basketball talent in the draft and on the FA market, often with disastrous results (conversely, they've gotten good results with the guards they drafted: Spree, Arenas, Curry, etc. etc.), and they're too quick to tear down and rebuild.

I make a point of not trying to eat in San Jose. Were you born in NorCal or SoCal?

I think GS fans are awesome. A GS fan linked that story to me a while back, and having lived in SF for most of my adult life, I always supported GS and their fans. I lived there during the height of the awesome Run TMC, got pissed at Chris Webber being a baby, and was even more pissed at that idiot who choked Carlisemo. I was a long time KNBR listener who heard the pain of Warrior fans talking Ralph and Tom, wondered why Nellie had so much control over the franchise, thought Mullin got a raw deal in the FO, and so on. This while being a born and bred Laker fan who was born in SoCal, but had family who lived the the Bay Area and who I visited since I was a child. I became a 49er fan in 1976-77 because of my trips to SF, which I eventually moved to in my early twenties, and lived for well over a decade. I have since moved back to SoCal, but all my friends and family know am a San Franciscan at heart, and that SF is my true home. Which I will return to when I am done doing other things. So that's it man. The whole "hate a team" thing is kinda whack, and the only real reason I say that about GS is because that franchise was and still is a mess. I would be one frustrated mofo being a GS die hard, but I don't hate the fans. I mean, GS hired Mark Jackson for coach. WTF?

Hell, I root for the 49ers who sucked after Policy left that team in ruins, and had an idiot take over to make it worse. Plus, the post Showtime era with Elden and Del Harris was no fun either.

BTW, San Jose has some good food. I don't care to go there that often, but at least they have an Amici's.

Go San Jose 49ers in 2014 or whenever that stadium in craphole Santa Clara is finished. There is one place where you can't find a good taco.

I think a lot of people will be surprised by GS this year if Bogs and Curry can stay healthy.

 

[Short Corner]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

He's not bashing them, he's chronicling their ineptitude (and bad luck, to be fair) over the last three decades, and how that justifies booing Lacob. There's a difference. I believe he's acknowledged that GS fans are great and deserve better (#44). But the new regime is still making mistakes (trading for Jefferson, not amnestying Biedrins), which almost always offset the good things. Same ####, different owners.The title of the article is a bit misleading as well, as not all 60 steps listed are negative (e.g. #14). But a few consistent themes stick out: They care about size over basketball talent in the draft and on the FA market, often with disastrous results (conversely, they've gotten good results with the guards they drafted: Spree, Arenas, Curry, etc. etc.), and they're too quick to tear down and rebuild. I make a point of not trying to eat in San Jose. Were you born in NorCal or SoCal?

BTW, San Jose has some good food. I don't care to go there that often, but at least they have an Amici's.

So overrated

 

[drummer]

2) I already root for a team that's moving further south. San Jose can be Los Angeles if you close your eyes and sniff deeply.

Not really.Do you live in Northern CA, or Southern?

Why does this matter all of the sudden? I don't mean to bash GS because I'm a Laker fan. Bill Simmons does a bang up job already. BTW, you can get great tacos in SJ. But the menudo is always better in SoCal. Trust me.

He's not bashing them, he's chronicling their ineptitude (and bad luck, to be fair) over the last three decades, and how that justifies booing Lacob. There's a difference. I believe he's acknowledged that GS fans are great and deserve better (#44). But the new regime is still making mistakes (trading for Jefferson, not amnestying Biedrins), which almost always offset the good things. Same ####, different owners.The title of the article is a bit misleading as well, as not all 60 steps listed are negative (e.g. #14). But a few consistent themes stick out: They care about size over basketball talent in the draft and on the FA market, often with disastrous results (conversely, they've gotten good results with the guards they drafted: Spree, Arenas, Curry, etc. etc.), and they're too quick to tear down and rebuild. I make a point of not trying to eat in San Jose. Were you born in NorCal or SoCal?

BTW, San Jose has some good food. I don't care to go there that often, but at least they have an Amici's.

So overrated

Maybe, but we're talkin' San Jose.

 

[Premier]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those. I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

If he is out until January, maybe they think their leverage is highest now. Maybe he is hurt worse than we know.

People really aren't talking enough about this back thing. Those always get better, right?

straws, meet grasp.

Blunt, meet burnout.

 

[Premier]

And I'm not trying to diminish what the Lakers did. Obviously you make that trade every time. But the man is rehabbing a back injury and those don't seem to always go well for big men.

 

[drummer]

And I'm not trying to diminish what the Lakers did. Obviously you make that trade every time. But the man is rehabbing a back injury and those don't seem to always go well for big men.

Well, I'll gamble on Howard's back vs. Bynum's knees and ten cent head anyday.

 

[pollardsvision]

How, exactly, is this deal better for ORL than just keeping Howard (hoping for the slim chance he could change his mind and stay)?

They get 5 bad draft picks. They don't unload Hedo. They take on $20 mill. of Al Harrington. They now have a tantalizing backcourt of Nelson and Afflalo that they still owe $55 million to.

They set out to get good draft picks, cap flexibility, and/or talent. They got none of those.

I assume they weren't getting blown away with offers, in which case, it just makes sense to keep Howard. I assume they could've gotten this ####box deal anytime.

My guess is... they got #1 from Lakers. (late)

#1 from Nuggets. (mid-late)

#1 from Sixers. (mid-late)

#1 2012 (16th overall) from Sixers swingman Maurice Harkless.

#1 2011 (15th overall) from Sixers 7-footer Nikola Vucevic.

They can now play and trade... Aaron Afflalo and Al Harrington. Possibly another #1.

Dumped Richardson and will now just need to move Turk when they trade one of the above to a contender.

And when they move them, they are going straight into the LOTTERY for 2013.

Finally they could have a boatload of cap space when several big free agents hit the market in 2013.

They'd have to find a really dumb GM to be able to land anything meaningful with Afflalo and Harrington. Unfortunately, there's only one Rod Hennigan.I'd be very curious to know what HOU's strongest offer was, whether straight-up or 3-way for Bynum. From what we heard (which could be false), they would've given a similar pupu platter of middling assets and taken away more bad contracts. They even had an honest-to-goodness quality draft pick to offer.

Ol' Rod should've been dealing with a desperate Morey who was clearly on tilt. That would've been a fair fight. Instead, he decided to sit down at the poker table with Kupchak and Ujiri. That worked out about as well as could be expected.

 

[Premier]

And I'm not trying to diminish what the Lakers did. Obviously you make that trade every time. But the man is rehabbing a back injury and those don't seem to always go well for big men.

Well, I'll gamble on Howard's back vs. Bynum's knees and ten cent head anyday.

Absolutely.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

And I'm not trying to diminish what the Lakers did. Obviously you make that trade every time. But the man is rehabbing a back injury and those don't seem to always go well for big men.

Well, I'll gamble on Howard's back vs. Bynum's knees and ten cent head anyday.

I agree. My point was perhaps Orlando thought he'd be worth less at the deadline if he missed a chunk of the season.

 

[Balco]

Good move by Philly trading a guy they have been trying to trade the last two years for a center who is a very good player (with upside still), albeit with extremely questionable knees. Now Evan Turner can slide into the SF role. But they really need a pure scorer. Either Jason Richardson or Nick Young are going to have to score alot. (and they need to do it without shooting 38 %).

Lakers side was a no brainer, although the back surgery of Howard is a little concerning. WOuldn't be the first time a team overlooked an unjury to a star player only to have it backfire (Orlando signing of Grant Hill after he broke his ankle). But if healthy, Howard makes the Lakers a contender in the West. Still think Oklahoma City is the class of the West, but LA should certainly be able to compete with San Antonio for the # 2 slot.

Like how Denver snuck in to get a very good player in Iguodola while not given up an integral piece.

I have zero idea what the Magic are doing here. Turns out the Nets deal would have been 1,000 times better. They would have gotten a 18-20 ppg center, a ton of first rounders, and Marshon Brooks. Instead they actually take on salary, get a good, not great shooting guard, and protected first rounders?? I don't get it. They should have imploded the team this offseason, unloaded bad contracts in any Howard deal, and aquired young pieces. Instead the re-sigh 30 year old Jameer Nelson at pg. Just a horrible offseason for the Magic.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Assuming Bynum stays healthy this year, what do you project?

I'm thinking 25/12 shooting about 53%.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Lakers might need another season or coach before they truly contend with Howard. Denver really got some help for nothing here. Iggy should fit well there.

 

[drummer]

Lakers might need another season or coach before they truly contend with Howard. Denver really got some help for nothing here. Iggy should fit well there.

Assuming Howard stays after this season, as well as stay healthy, at least they have a new centerpiece to build with when Bryant hangs them up. I never felt the Lakers could build around Bynum much like they tried with Elden Campbell back in the day, even though Bynum is a way better Center than Campbell was. Then again, Jim Buss can be Jim Buss and hire Jenna Jameson in a FO capacity, and it all goes to hell.

 

[pollardsvision]

Lakers might need another season or coach before they truly contend with Howard. Denver really got some help for nothing here. Iggy should fit well there.

Assuming Howard stays after this season, as well as stay healthy, at least they have a new centerpiece to build with when Bryant hangs them up. I never felt the Lakers could build around Bynum much like they tried with Elden Campbell back in the day, even though Bynum is a way better Center than Campbell was. Then again, Jim Buss can be Jim Buss and hire Jenna Jameson in a FO capacity, and it all goes to hell.

I think Kobe's going to play another decade now. He'll piggyback off Howard/Nash for now. By the time Nash/Gasol are done carrying Kobe, LeBron will be about ready to opt out and head to LA.

Heck, Kobe's nuts if he doesn't hang around until Anthony Davis is able to bolt New Orleans. Although, Davis needs a few years to prove himself worthy of being handed to the Lakers.

 

[drummer]

Lakers might need another season or coach before they truly contend with Howard. Denver really got some help for nothing here. Iggy should fit well there.

Assuming Howard stays after this season, as well as stay healthy, at least they have a new centerpiece to build with when Bryant hangs them up. I never felt the Lakers could build around Bynum much like they tried with Elden Campbell back in the day, even though Bynum is a way better Center than Campbell was. Then again, Jim Buss can be Jim Buss and hire Jenna Jameson in a FO capacity, and it all goes to hell.

I think Kobe's going to play another decade now. He'll piggyback off Howard/Nash for now. By the time Nash/Gasol are done carrying Kobe, LeBron will be about ready to opt out and head to LA.

Heck, Kobe's nuts if he doesn't hang around until Anthony Davis is able to bolt New Orleans. Although, Davis needs a few years to prove himself worthy of being handed to the Lakers.

Gasol can barely carry himself out of the gym most of the time. That dude is softer than Rebeca Linares' rear end after a multi partner scene.

 

[Kiddnets]

Good move by Philly trading a guy they have been trying to trade the last two years for a center who is a very good player (with upside still), albeit with extremely questionable knees. Now Evan Turner can slide into the SF role. But they really need a pure scorer. Either Jason Richardson or Nick Young are going to have to score alot. (and they need to do it without shooting 38 %).Lakers side was a no brainer, although the back surgery of Howard is a little concerning. WOuldn't be the first time a team overlooked an unjury to a star player only to have it backfire (Orlando signing of Grant Hill after he broke his ankle). But if healthy, Howard makes the Lakers a contender in the West. Still think Oklahoma City is the class of the West, but LA should certainly be able to compete with San Antonio for the # 2 slot.Like how Denver snuck in to get a very good player in Iguodola while not given up an integral piece.I have zero idea what the Magic are doing here. Turns out the Nets deal would have been 1,000 times better. They would have gotten a 18-20 ppg center, a ton of first rounders, and Marshon Brooks. Instead they actually take on salary, get a good, not great shooting guard, and protected first rounders?? I don't get it. They should have imploded the team this offseason, unloaded bad contracts in any Howard deal, and aquired young pieces. Instead the re-sigh 30 year old Jameer Nelson at pg. Just a horrible offseason for the Magic.

Word is Magic didnt want to deal with Nets no matter what due to perceived tampering....I'll link later

 

[Balco]

Good move by Philly trading a guy they have been trying to trade the last two years for a center who is a very good player (with upside still), albeit with extremely questionable knees. Now Evan Turner can slide into the SF role. But they really need a pure scorer. Either Jason Richardson or Nick Young are going to have to score alot. (and they need to do it without shooting 38 %).Lakers side was a no brainer, although the back surgery of Howard is a little concerning. WOuldn't be the first time a team overlooked an unjury to a star player only to have it backfire (Orlando signing of Grant Hill after he broke his ankle). But if healthy, Howard makes the Lakers a contender in the West. Still think Oklahoma City is the class of the West, but LA should certainly be able to compete with San Antonio for the # 2 slot.Like how Denver snuck in to get a very good player in Iguodola while not given up an integral piece.I have zero idea what the Magic are doing here. Turns out the Nets deal would have been 1,000 times better. They would have gotten a 18-20 ppg center, a ton of first rounders, and Marshon Brooks. Instead they actually take on salary, get a good, not great shooting guard, and protected first rounders?? I don't get it. They should have imploded the team this offseason, unloaded bad contracts in any Howard deal, and aquired young pieces. Instead the re-sigh 30 year old Jameer Nelson at pg. Just a horrible offseason for the Magic.

Word is Magic didnt want to deal with Nets no matter what due to perceived tampering....I'll link later

Oof. They knew Howard wanted out. If that is true, I would be livid if I was a Magic fan. Their gm kep saying they would wait for the best deal. That was the best deal???? If they traded for Bynum and a couple firsts, I could understand the argument that that is a better deal than the Nets offer. But Aaron Affalo and protected draft picks? And Al Harrington's contract?? Just horrible.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

what are the chances that Dwight refuses to sign a new deal in LA next year?

 

[Balco]

what are the chances that Dwight refuses to sign a new deal in LA next year?

For some reason, I think he and Chris Paul end up on the Hawks next year. Or the Mavericks. Dwight is an immature, overly sensitive player. If he hears some boos from Laker fans if he struggles with the back injury, he will be gone, IMO.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

what are the chances that Dwight refuses to sign a new deal in LA next year?

I would take -150 he stays in a heartbeat.