Need some advice on what to do now (1 Viewer)

[Spin]

Sorry in advance if this ends up being a long post.

Ok, so let me try to explain my league a bit to give you some background. It's a 10 team dynasty, ppr. Start 1 qb/2rb/3wr/1te/1flex(any)/1pk/2-3dline/2-3lb/2-3db total of 8 idp)

We have 40 man rosters, with a max of 100 contract years. So if I get Calvin Johnson, and put 6 years on him, he is mine for 6 years, unless I trade or cut him. At the end of his contract he becomes a RFA. Which means he is up to bid by any other owner, and the original owner has the option of matching the high bid. Bidding is done via "Snotes" which is our currency, so to speak. Each owner receives 75 snotes a year. It is the only way to acquire FA during the year (through a blind bid process) and to acquire and keep your RFAs.

Now, you can trade both Snotes, future rookie draft picks, and players. Which means we have a lot of trades that happen. Most owners have anywhere from 30-40 trades per season. Especially around rookie draft time and our RFA period, which lasts a month.

Our league started before the 2010 season, with an initial auction draft (god that took forever, don't think I could ever sit through a 40 round auction again, was a helluva weekend though). It was mainly made up of college buddies. The two owners in question have been best friends since they were like 8. Grew up down the street, same elementary, same high school, same college etc. One of the owners has been in the playoffs both years, and will probably make it this year, if he can get 1 more win outta the next two weeks. The other owner has finished bottom 4 both years and is trending towards being in dead last this year.

So they have had a history of trades, that always seem to favor one owner. And the league is starting to complain quite often to me, and I'm not quite sure what to do. It's not collusion, I know it's not. I think it's just an owner that makes bad fantasy decisions, and one owner that is constantly taking advantage of him. And the fact that they're best friends has a lot to do with it.

So here is every trade they've done, starting in 2010, to give you guys some background.

In 2010:

1. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Greene, Shonn NYJ RB

Team B gave up Garcon, Pierre IND WR

Comments: Team B will also give up 61 s-notes. **(Side note 61 snotes is *a lot*, over 81% of your yearly allotment. For reference Chris Johnson went for 70)**

Sun Jan 2 7:24:17 p.m. ET 2011

3. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Tomlinson, LaDainian NYJ RB; Year 2011 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team A

Team B gave up Year 2011 Round 1 Draft Pick from Team A

Sat Nov 6 6:30:45 p.m. ET 2010

4. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Year 2011 Round 5 Draft Pick from Team A

Team B gave up Shiancoe, Visanthe MIN TE

Sat Nov 6 5:19:49 p.m. ET 2010

6. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Year 2011 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team B

Team B gave up Bush, Michael OAK RB

Tue Nov 2 8:34:32 p.m. ET 2010

7. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Hightower, Tim ARI RB;Branch, Deion NEP WR;Washington, Nate TEN WR

Team B gave up Breaston, Steve ARI WR; Year 2011 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team B

Sat Oct 30 8:11:32 p.m. ET 2010

9. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Jackson, Fred BUF RB;Breaston, Steve ARI WR; Year 2011 Round 1 Draft Pick from Team A

Team B gave up McCoy, LeSean PHI RB;Floyd, Malcom SDC WR

Sun Aug 29 1:40:59 a.m. ET 2010

10. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Garcon, Pierre IND WR; Year 2011 Round 2 Draft Pick from Team D

Team B gave up White, Roddy ATL WR

Sat Aug 28 11:25:53 p.m. ET 2010

11. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Brown, Everette CAR DE

Team B gave up Decker, Eric DEN WR; Year 2011 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team B

Thu Aug 5 7:28:17 p.m. ET 2010

13. Team A/ Team B Trade

Team A gave up Year 2010 Draft Pick 1.06;Year 2010 Draft Pick 4.05

Team B gave up Year 2010 Draft Pick 1.02

Mon Apr 26 4:36:02 p.m. ET 2010

So in the initial year, Team B had 13 trades, 11 of which were with Team A.

At the end of 2010, I heard quite a bit of complaining over their trades. There were a lot of bad trades there. Roddy White for Garcon/2nd. Then trading Garcon and 61 snotes for Greene. Trading McCoy for Fred Jackson. Giving a 1st for LT. And the 1.2 for 1.6/4th round.

2011 rolls around:

They really only do 1 trade

Team A gave up

Team B gave up Cundiff, Billy BAL PK

Comments: 2 snotes to Team B

No big deal.

2012:

2. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up

Team B gave up Scobee, Josh JAC PK

Comments: Team A will give up 3 snotes

Fri Nov 16 12:18:36 a.m. ET 2012

5. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Rice, Sidney SEA WR

Team B gave up Year 2013 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team B;Year 2013 Round 7 Draft Pick from Team A

Sun Oct 14 8:50:48 p.m. ET 2012

8. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Landry, LaRon NYJ S

Team B gave up Year 2013 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team B

Sun Sep 2 12:24:22 a.m. ET 2012

11. Team B / Team A Trade

Team B gave up Year 2012 Draft Pick 4.03;Year 2012 Draft Pick 5.06

Team A gave up Year 2012 Draft Pick 3.07

Sat Jul 14 6:19:20 p.m. ET 2012

15. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Year 2013 Round 7 Draft Pick from Team A

Team B gave up Abraham, John ATL DE

Sat Apr 7 7:44:03 p.m. ET 2012

16. Team B / Team A Trade

Team B gave up Year 2013 Round 3 Draft Pick from Team C

Team A gave up Babin, Jason PHI DE

Comments: Team A Also gets 22 snotes

Sat Apr 7 7:26:28 p.m. ET 2012

19. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Royster, Evan WAS RB

Team B gave up Doss, Tandon BAL WR

Sun Apr 1 2:36:23 a.m. ET 2012

20. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Year 2012 Draft Pick 4.06;Year 2012 Draft Pick 5.06

Team B gave up Year 2012 Draft Pick 3.05

Sun Apr 1 2:18:47 a.m. ET 2012

23. Team B / Team A Trade

Team B gave up Brown, Donald IND RB;Jackson, DeSean PHI WR;Manningham, Mario SFO WR;Boss, Kevin KCC TE

Team A gave up Breaston, Steve KCC WR;Ford, Jacoby OAK WR; Year 2012 Draft Pick 2.04;Year 2012 Draft Pick 3.05

Sun Mar 4 5:16:13 p.m. ET 2012

So a few bad trades that got a rise out of owners. The Djax trade (we give points for punt and kick returns) seemed lopsided back in March, and this was supposed to be Brown's breakout year. A 3rd and 22 snotes (almost 33% of your years allotment for FABB and pickups) for Babin?? And then to follow that up with giving up Abraham for only a 7th?

So then this trade came through today and I've already gotten 3 calls from owners asking if I'm going to intervene (I've never intervened in a trade).

1. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Bradford, Sam STL QB

Team B gave up Cutler, Jay CHI QB;Quick, Brian STL WR; Year 2013 Round 4 Draft Pick from Team C

Sun Nov 18 5:59:30 p.m. ET 2012

So I'm asking for outsiders opinions. Are these trades really as lopsided as they seem? Or so we just think they are because every trade seems to always go in favor of Team A, so therefor we assume every trade will be in favor of Team A?

The biggest issue, is that Team B has over 70% of his total trades in the league with Team A. And MOST of team B's trades are bad, with every owner, he just so happens to trade with Team A way more due to their friendship. Is this just a case of Team A taking advantage of a friendship and using it to feed his team?

Is the league way over reacting?

On a side note, what do you do with an owner like Team B? He pays his dues, sets a lineup every week, is active in FA, he just never seems to improve. Always in the bottom 2. He always trades his future draft picks away and never has a 1st. He has already traded his 2013 and 2014 firsts.

So, help me out. Is there something that needs to be done? Or leave it alone, it's their teams let them do what they think is best.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

all the 2012 players that theyve traded suck. LOL. I dont think this is anything too egregious in my mind. I've seen far worse as a matter of fact.

As this sounds like a highly evolved league, do you have a trade commitee in place? Grab three (or more depending on number of teams in league) trusted owners and have them decide if a trade is legit.

I have one in my league, works like a charm..

 

[mjr]

There's not much you can do about someone who just sucks at FF other than find a replacement owner or partner this guy up with someone.

all the 2012 players that theyve traded suck. LOL. I dont think this is anything too egregious in my mind. I've seen far worse as a matter of fact. As this sounds like a highly evolved league, do you have a trade commitee in place? Grab three (or more depending on number of teams in league) trusted owners and have them decide if a trade is legit. I have one in my league, works like a charm..

I thought the same but, with the high volume of trades in this league, it might cause more issues than resolve.

 

[Spin]

all the 2012 players that theyve traded suck. LOL. I dont think this is anything too egregious in my mind. I've seen far worse as a matter of fact. As this sounds like a highly evolved league, do you have a trade commitee in place? Grab three (or more depending on number of teams in league) trusted owners and have them decide if a trade is legit. I have one in my league, works like a charm..

I understand what you mean about a committee. But would your committee intervene if there is no collusion intent? Or just if everyone on a whole thinks it's a bad trade? If two years ago someone traded Boldin for Cruz, would you have intervened then? At the time Cruz was only a preseason wonder. Would have seem insanely lopsided.

 

[Wyld Stallyns]

I skimmed through that, only reading about 15%, but I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Cutler, Quick and a 4th rounder for Bradford in a dynasty league. Wtf are people complaining about there? What did I miss?

 

[Spin]

I skimmed through that, only reading about 15%, but I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Cutler, Quick and a 4th rounder for Bradford in a dynasty league. Wtf are people complaining about there? What did I miss?

Yah, like I said, maybe it's just because these two have a perceived history of bad trades. People assume every trade is terrible. This was why I was wanting some outside perspective. I didn't think anything was wrong with it. But when 4 people call you over it... where there's smoke... Or maybe this is just a case of people just b*tching to b*tch.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I skimmed through that, only reading about 15%, but I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Cutler, Quick and a 4th rounder for Bradford in a dynasty league. Wtf are people complaining about there? What did I miss?

About 85% of the trades - at a qucik glance - seem pretty close to me with only really this one standing out (and honestly even that one isn't so terrible):9. Team A / Team B Trade Team A gave up Jackson, Fred BUF RB;Breaston, Steve ARI WR; Year 2011 Round 1 Draft Pick from Team ATeam B gave up McCoy, LeSean PHI RB;Floyd, Malcom SDC WRSun Aug 29 1:40:59 a.m. ET 2010I don't really see that big, if any, of an issue here. I think you guys are making way too much out of two friends that trade alot. This last trade that set everyone off (basically Bradford for Cutler) I can't even figure out which side is supposed to be the one getting ripped off.

 

[GregR]

Not a lot that can be done if there's an owner that is just not that great at FF, not unless you want to replace him.

Depending on his personality, your league could always try to help him improve. Some people welcome unsolicited advice, but others get offended by it. If he's somebody who won't react negatively, can always get him into some conversations about player value, the value of draft picks, etc. It doesn't have to be "you are doing this wrong". It can just be a conversation where you share your thoughts but don't make it directly about him.

I've had a few new owners along the way who I've tried to help get a leg up on my leagues, as they are fairly non-standard, and it can take a few years to learn what are appropriate salaries, or what player value is (for those who try to go by gut in a setup they aren't familiar with rather than actually figure it out). I'll generally give them some starting advice as a primer when they come into the league, and then if struggling I may offer some observations. But like I said, I'm a bit wary about offering too much unsolicited help. It is supposed to be an individual game after all.

If there is a trade that comes through that you consider truly bad, one thing you could do is just approach both owners separately and say the trade seemed a bit unbalanced and ask both owners to explain why they feel it improves their team. Which is the step you should do if you think a trade might be collusive, before rendering any judgment. But in this case it would be more a heads up for Owner B that he probably didn't make a very good deal if the league has had to come asking to make sure the trade is on the up and up.

 

[Spin]

I skimmed through that, only reading about 15%, but I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with Cutler, Quick and a 4th rounder for Bradford in a dynasty league. Wtf are people complaining about there? What did I miss?

About 85% of the trades - at a qucik glance - seem pretty close to me with only really this one standing out (and honestly even that one isn't so terrible):9. Team A / Team B Trade

Team A gave up Jackson, Fred BUF RB;Breaston, Steve ARI WR; Year 2011 Round 1 Draft Pick from Team A

Team B gave up McCoy, LeSean PHI RB;Floyd, Malcom SDC WR

Sun Aug 29 1:40:59 a.m. ET 2010

I don't really see that big, if any, of an issue here. I think you guys are making way too much out of two friends that trade alot.

This last trade that set everyone off (basically Bradford for Cutler) I can't even figure out which side is supposed to be the one getting ripped off.

This is what I thought. And is generally my reply when people approach me. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't off base as I seem to be in the minority. I just wanted to get some outside perspective.

 

[Spin]

Not a lot that can be done if there's an owner that is just not that great at FF, not unless you want to replace him.Depending on his personality, your league could always try to help him improve. Some people welcome unsolicited advice, but others get offended by it. If he's somebody who won't react negatively, can always get him into some conversations about player value, the value of draft picks, etc. It doesn't have to be "you are doing this wrong". It can just be a conversation where you share your thoughts but don't make it directly about him.I've had a few new owners along the way who I've tried to help get a leg up on my leagues, as they are fairly non-standard, and it can take a few years to learn what are appropriate salaries, or what player value is (for those who try to go by gut in a setup they aren't familiar with rather than actually figure it out). I'll generally give them some starting advice as a primer when they come into the league, and then if struggling I may offer some observations. But like I said, I'm a bit wary about offering too much unsolicited help. It is supposed to be an individual game after all.If there is a trade that comes through that you consider truly bad, one thing you could do is just approach both owners separately and say the trade seemed a bit unbalanced and ask both owners to explain why they feel it improves their team. Which is the step you should do if you think a trade might be collusive, before rendering any judgment. But in this case it would be more a heads up for Owner B that he probably didn't make a very good deal if the league has had to come asking to make sure the trade is on the up and up.

Curious, have you ever restricted an owner from trading his future firsts? He gets pretty defensive if you try to talk about value of players/picks if your opinion differs from his. I did ask him about the trades people question and he always has a reason as to why it improved his team, which is why I'm positive it's not collusion.

 

[GregR]

Not a lot that can be done if there's an owner that is just not that great at FF, not unless you want to replace him.Depending on his personality, your league could always try to help him improve. Some people welcome unsolicited advice, but others get offended by it. If he's somebody who won't react negatively, can always get him into some conversations about player value, the value of draft picks, etc. It doesn't have to be "you are doing this wrong". It can just be a conversation where you share your thoughts but don't make it directly about him.I've had a few new owners along the way who I've tried to help get a leg up on my leagues, as they are fairly non-standard, and it can take a few years to learn what are appropriate salaries, or what player value is (for those who try to go by gut in a setup they aren't familiar with rather than actually figure it out). I'll generally give them some starting advice as a primer when they come into the league, and then if struggling I may offer some observations. But like I said, I'm a bit wary about offering too much unsolicited help. It is supposed to be an individual game after all.If there is a trade that comes through that you consider truly bad, one thing you could do is just approach both owners separately and say the trade seemed a bit unbalanced and ask both owners to explain why they feel it improves their team. Which is the step you should do if you think a trade might be collusive, before rendering any judgment. But in this case it would be more a heads up for Owner B that he probably didn't make a very good deal if the league has had to come asking to make sure the trade is on the up and up.

Curious, have you ever restricted an owner from trading his future firsts? He gets pretty defensive if you try to talk about value of players/picks if your opinion differs from his. I did ask him about the trades people question and he always has a reason as to why it improved his team, which is why I'm positive it's not collusion.

No, never even considered doing such. I'm mostly of the mind you let owners run their team how they believe best so long as it isn't cheating. Some people just aren't as good at this game and that's life. It has to get pretty bad before I'd consider it as being so detrimental to league integrity that it has to be dealt with. Though I also structure my rules to help prevent anything from getting that bad... like if an owner is considering giving up on a season and having a firesale for the future, we have a rule he has to notify the entire league before he starts entertaining trade offers, so everyone has a fair shot and there's no room for complaints after.Helping along a less knowledgeable/skilled owner isn't a bad thing, but I couldn't see myself deciding that banning an owner from trading, or aspects of trading, was the right move without him doing something unethical. I'd probably try to get him replaced before I'd do that.

 

[Spin]

No, never even considered doing such. I'm mostly of the mind you let owners run their team how they believe best so long as it isn't cheating. Some people just aren't as good at this game and that's life. It has to get pretty bad before I'd consider it as being so detrimental to league integrity that it has to be dealt with. Though I also structure my rules to help prevent anything from getting that bad... like if an owner is considering giving up on a season and having a firesale for the future, we have a rule he has to notify the entire league before he starts entertaining trade offers, so everyone has a fair shot and there's no room for complaints after.

Helping along a less knowledgeable/skilled owner isn't a bad thing, but I couldn't see myself deciding that banning an owner from trading, or aspects of trading, was the right move without him doing something unethical. I'd probably try to get him replaced before I'd do that.

I like this idea a lot. We've only had one owner blatantly give up on a season, and he essentially did what you were saying, just made a post with all of his players for trade. It actually worked out quite nicely.