New England 16-0 in 2007? (1 Viewer)

[pizzatyme]

BFred,

We know all this, and we also know that it's a requirement of any true Patriot fan to rush to the defense of Brady when any negative criticism is delivered.

I truly cannot remember when Brady delivered a TD drive to win a game. I know Brady has led 24 4th quarter and overtime winning drives. However, by my recollection Adam Vinatieri was the last person to touch the ball on most of them. You're the perfect guy to research this and find out how many of the 24 comebacks involved TDs and not FGs.

It would be interesting to see this stat on all QBs not just Brady. But Brady is a great place to start.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031103_NE@DENIf I knew where to look, I would. But this one was pretty memorable, especially since it was against the team that supposedly owns the Patriots. A lot of fans have since said that Belichick made the obvious call, but at the time, this was considered a pretty extraordinary game for a lot of reasons.

I wish the Brady has never done this or that talk would go away. Just like I hope the same for the similar Manning talk.Brady is a great leader on a great team with a great coach, period.

I'm curious to see how the Pats use Moss, since his skills are out of the norm for what I perceive the Pats to run offensively.

 

[The Jerk]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

I'm looking up this info on the Pats official website. I found a TD pass to Patten in Week 10 of 2002 with 20 seconds left to complete a big comeback against the Bears, 33-30. Through 2001-2002, 7 of 8 game-winning 4th qtr/OT drives have been FGs.

 

[bostonfred]

I truly cannot remember when Brady delivered a TD drive to win a game. I know Brady has led 24 4th quarter and overtime winning drives. However, by my recollection Adam Vinatieri was the last person to touch the ball on most of them. You're the perfect guy to research this and find out how many of the 24 comebacks involved TDs and not FGs.

I'm not going to research every single game, but can you help me understand why Brady leading a game tying TD drive including a two point converstion against San Diego, only to lead them on another drive for a field goal afterwards, is less impressive than a TD drive? Or why a first year QB leading a 14 point underdog against the wire-to-wire Superbowl favorites with just over a minute left in the game when he absolutely cannot afford to throw an interception, has to throw the ball near the sidelines, and is on the biggest of stages, going 5 of 8 (including two spikes of the ball that count as incompletions) for 53 yards to get them into field goal range was less impressive than throwing a TD pass? If you're just looking for a dent in his armor, talk about how he impregnated his ex, threw three picks in the Chargers game, or how he is now only 12-2 in the postseason after starting out 10-0. That's all very embarrassing, I suppose.

 

[Marc Levin]

Everyone wants to see chinks in Brady's armor, but they simply aren't there. He was cool as a cucumber on almost all of his team's meaningful late game drives from '00 through '07. He regularly executed game winning field goal drives because his team was rarely out of it by more than a field goal.

I am confident that, in the games where a FG won the game, had the team been down by 4, instead of 1 or 2, his number of comeback wins by way of TD would be dramatically increased.

Simply put, Tom Brady almost always does what the team needs him to do to win important games (some notable exceptions exist, of course).

 

[The Jerk]

I truly cannot remember when Brady delivered a TD drive to win a game. I know Brady has led 24 4th quarter and overtime winning drives. However, by my recollection Adam Vinatieri was the last person to touch the ball on most of them. You're the perfect guy to research this and find out how many of the 24 comebacks involved TDs and not FGs.

I'm not going to research every single game, but can you help me understand why Brady leading a game tying TD drive including a two point converstion against San Diego, only to lead them on another drive for a field goal afterwards, is less impressive than a TD drive? Or why a first year QB leading a 14 point underdog against the wire-to-wire Superbowl favorites with just over a minute left in the game when he absolutely cannot afford to throw an interception, has to throw the ball near the sidelines, and is on the biggest of stages, going 5 of 8 (including two spikes of the ball that count as incompletions) for 53 yards to get them into field goal range was less impressive than throwing a TD pass? If you're just looking for a dent in his armor, talk about how he impregnated his ex, threw three picks in the Chargers game, or how he is now only 12-2 in the postseason after starting out 10-0. That's all very embarrassing, I suppose.

If you read my posts throughout this and other threads, you will see that I believe Brady has clearly demonstrated poise and clutch behavior repeatedly during his career. However, I think it is legitimate to point out that most of the memorable late-game drives Brady has orchestrated have been FG drives. I cannot fathom why Brady's performance cannot even be analyzed without Patriot fans mobilizing to his defense.Somehow it's also not allowed by Patriot fans for others to point out that Brady has a pretty fair head coach and that it might also help him a wee little bit to have had a great defense on his sideline for most of his career.Now on to the stats that I have been able to find. I only have 21 4th quarter/OT drives so I apparently am missing three.13 of the 21 drives resulted in FGs.Three drives clearly meet the criteria of being a TD to win the game, all previously listed in the thread. One occurred in 2002 (posted by me) and the other two in 2003 (both listed by BFred).The remaining five drives are TDs that do not fit BnB's initial criteria as the game was either tied or the Patriots trailed by 1 or 2 points. Most of these were TD runs and three of the five involved drives of 32 yards or less.Like PizzaTyme says, we can slice this and dice this until it's obnoxious. It's somewhat understandable why NE fans want to defend their guy. However, it would be nice if we could have honest discussion on a message board, and the QB on the leading contender for the Super Bowl should be fair game for analysis.

 

[MiamiShaps]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

Pretty sure 99% of people in Philly would disagree on him being a bust here.

 

[bostonfred]

I truly cannot remember when Brady delivered a TD drive to win a game. I know Brady has led 24 4th quarter and overtime winning drives. However, by my recollection Adam Vinatieri was the last person to touch the ball on most of them. You're the perfect guy to research this and find out how many of the 24 comebacks involved TDs and not FGs.

I'm not going to research every single game, but can you help me understand why Brady leading a game tying TD drive including a two point converstion against San Diego, only to lead them on another drive for a field goal afterwards, is less impressive than a TD drive? Or why a first year QB leading a 14 point underdog against the wire-to-wire Superbowl favorites with just over a minute left in the game when he absolutely cannot afford to throw an interception, has to throw the ball near the sidelines, and is on the biggest of stages, going 5 of 8 (including two spikes of the ball that count as incompletions) for 53 yards to get them into field goal range was less impressive than throwing a TD pass? If you're just looking for a dent in his armor, talk about how he impregnated his ex, threw three picks in the Chargers game, or how he is now only 12-2 in the postseason after starting out 10-0. That's all very embarrassing, I suppose.

If you read my posts throughout this and other threads, you will see that I believe Brady has clearly demonstrated poise and clutch behavior repeatedly during his career. However, I think it is legitimate to point out that most of the memorable late-game drives Brady has orchestrated have been FG drives. I cannot fathom why Brady's performance cannot even be analyzed without Patriot fans mobilizing to his defense.Somehow it's also not allowed by Patriot fans for others to point out that Brady has a pretty fair head coach and that it might also help him a wee little bit to have had a great defense on his sideline for most of his career.Now on to the stats that I have been able to find. I only have 21 4th quarter/OT drives so I apparently am missing three.13 of the 21 drives resulted in FGs.Three drives clearly meet the criteria of being a TD to win the game, all previously listed in the thread. One occurred in 2002 (posted by me) and the other two in 2003 (both listed by BFred).The remaining five drives are TDs that do not fit BnB's initial criteria as the game was either tied or the Patriots trailed by 1 or 2 points. Most of these were TD runs and three of the five involved drives of 32 yards or less.Like PizzaTyme says, we can slice this and dice this until it's obnoxious. It's somewhat understandable why NE fans want to defend their guy. However, it would be nice if we could have honest discussion on a message board, and the QB on the leading contender for the Super Bowl should be fair game for analysis.

I'm having a hard time understanding your post. It seems like you're upset that I looked up the answer to a question you asked, after you asked me twice to look it up for you. It seems like you think I'm not allowing you to suggest that New England had a good head coach or defense, even though I didn't say anything about either one way or the other. I've answered the questions by you and switz as directly as possible, and it's all been an honest discussion of the QB. Why are you playing the martyr card? Is it because I asked you to answer why Brady's undoubtably impressive field goal drive in the 2001 would be any less impressive than his overtime TD pass to win the Miami game? Maybe you see it as being defensive because that's what you want to see or because you're trying to be provocative, but it seems perfectly reasonable to ask why you want the information you've asked for. I'm not sure what else you want me to do.

 

[MiamiShaps]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

Pretty sure 99% of people in Philly would disagree on him being a bust here."Stallworth leaves the Eagles after one season in which he caught 38 passes for 725 yards and five touchdowns in 12 regular-season games."

Not exactly stellar numbers, ill give him the 19yards per catch was tasty though. Can this guy stay healthy, i dont think he has started a full season yet.

Also, what do Philly fans know, they threw snowballs at Santa Claus.

 

[bostonfred]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

I think it's funny you called him Stallworth to avoid typing or even thinking the word Daunte. And funnier still that your team kept McWifebeater for as long as it did, while waiting for Ricky to comeback from his drug suspension retirement thingy, and you're only now lecturing the Pats on taking character guys. And even funnier that you're calling out a head coach for committing to coach for one team and then going somewhere else. And funniest that a Dolphins fan is talking about anyone living in the past. But none of that is as funny as Ted Ginn. Have a good night, Fred

 

[Marc Levin]

<------- Dolphins Fan

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

I think it's funny you called him Stallworth to avoid typing or even thinking the word Daunte. And funnier still that your team kept McWifebeater for as long as it did, while waiting for Ricky to comeback from his drug suspension retirement thingy, and you're only now lecturing the Pats on taking character guys. And even funnier that you're calling out a head coach for committing to coach for one team and then going somewhere else. And funniest that a Dolphins fan is talking about anyone living in the past. But none of that is as funny as Ted Ginn. Have a good night, Fred

Not a good representation of phin fans' respect for the Pats. I hate them, but over the last 6 years, I have grown to respect them. Stallworth was a great move for the Pats.

 

[MiamiShaps]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

I think it's funny you called him Stallworth to avoid typing or even thinking the word Daunte. And funnier still that your team kept McWifebeater for as long as it did, while waiting for Ricky to comeback from his drug suspension retirement thingy, and you're only now lecturing the Pats on taking character guys. And even funnier that you're calling out a head coach for committing to coach for one team and then going somewhere else. And funniest that a Dolphins fan is talking about anyone living in the past. But none of that is as funny as Ted Ginn. Have a good night, Fred

Whats even funnier is how Fred over here didn't pick up on is its actually "Donte'" with the apostrophe. Culpepper spells it Daunte, and besides didn't know we were on a first name basis here with the NFL players. From now on I'll refer to Belichick as Billy boy, and Tom Brady as Tommy for the rest of the posts seeing how well you know them. Also what Right Said Fred didn't pick up on was the quote of Lamar Thomas(talk about character!). I'm a Canes fan, get your head out of you know where. We do have one thing in common, we both don't like the Dolphins, I'm sure you'll like this even more when I tell you Im a big time Jets fan though.J E T S, jets jets jets.

 

[oukurt]

A: Peyton Manning with supreme confidence

 

[Marc Levin]

I'm sure you'll like this even more when I tell you Im a big time Jets fan though.J E T S, jets jets jets.

Aaaah, maybe that explains the kickin' tude.I think bostonfred defended himself very well and was dead on accurate.

 

[pizzatyme]

A: Peyton Manning with supreme confidence

And possibly because of Addai/Wayne/Harrison/Gonzalez/ClarkIt still remains to be seen what the Defense looks like with Keiaho at the WLB and 2 new starting DBs. However, from what I've seen, we upgraded at all 3 positions with the talent that will be playing this season.

 

[MiamiShaps]

<------- Dolphins Fan

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

Just keep living in the past boys as thats all youll have to relish. Time to break out the centrum silver and geritol, this team is gettin old. Youll also be the third team to be banking on Stallworth to have his bust out year only to find out he is a "bust". Good pick up with Merriweather though, always like to see the Canes players do well. Don't be so high and mighty and quick to judge character beloved Pats fans. Remember, coach Bill was the one to take the job for the Jets and then reneg a few days later. Good to see he is a man of his word. Merriweather and Moss will fit right in.

I think it's funny you called him Stallworth to avoid typing or even thinking the word Daunte. And funnier still that your team kept McWifebeater for as long as it did, while waiting for Ricky to comeback from his drug suspension retirement thingy, and you're only now lecturing the Pats on taking character guys. And even funnier that you're calling out a head coach for committing to coach for one team and then going somewhere else. And funniest that a Dolphins fan is talking about anyone living in the past. But none of that is as funny as Ted Ginn. Have a good night, Fred

Not a good representation of phin fans' respect for the Pats. I hate them, but over the last 6 years, I have grown to respect them. Stallworth was a great move for the Pats.

I have tremendous amounts of respect for the franchise, i hate to even say dynasty (gulp). Tom is Mr. Clutch and the guy who was writing he never came through in it is borderline mentally challenged, but I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague."Over macho grande? No Ill never be over macho grande."

 

[Marc Levin]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

 

[bostonfred]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

 

[MiamiShaps]

A: Peyton Manning with supreme confidence

And possibly because of Addai/Wayne/Harrison/Gonzalez/ClarkIt still remains to be seen what the Defense looks like with Keiaho at the WLB and 2 new starting DBs. However, from what I've seen, we upgraded at all 3 positions with the talent that will be playing this season.

Looking forward to seeing the Jags run all over the new defense.Ive relocated to the First Coast aka Jacksonville, no doubt the confusion will mount.

 

[MiamiShaps]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

Where I come from when you give your word to do something you do it. Maybe thats a New York thing."I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. "I also think he demonstrated a real lack of taste. Lose that ratty hooded sweatshirt already.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

X

 

[Marc Levin]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

Forget that incident and address the other instances of Belichik demonstrating no-class the last two years - his treatment of Mangini, his tantrums when he loses, etc. For a guy who coached his team to show such class and respect while beating their opponents, he showed a lot of lack of class when his team starts getting defeated.

 

[pizzatyme]

Flashdance is one hell of a coach, as a gentleman, not so much.

 

[kingmalaki]

Much like fantasy football, one injury (i.e. to Brady) can change everything.

 

[Arnold. S]

Much like fantasy football, one injury (i.e. to Brady) can change everything.

we don't predict injuries here now do we

 

[Kirby]

I think I figured out what they're going to do. They've got Moss, Stallworth, and Jackson. They'll take turns coming in and running deep down the field until the 4th quarter when the corner and safety are tired.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

Forget that incident and address the other instances of Belichik demonstrating no-class the last two years - his treatment of Mangini, his tantrums when he loses, etc. For a guy who coached his team to show such class and respect while beating their opponents, he showed a lot of lack of class when his team starts getting defeated.

The Patriots lost more games this season other than the game to Mangini. Any other examples to back up the "lack of class when his team gets defeated" that are not related to the personal rift between Mangini and Belichick?

 

[Workhorse]

I think I figured out what they're going to do. They've got Moss, Stallworth, and Jackson. They'll take turns coming in and running deep down the field until the 4th quarter when the corner and safety are tired.

There's some merit to this. I see guys like Welker, Watson and Maroney/Faulk having big games by catching the dump offs and crossing patterns in the middle of the field. Particularly Welker. I was not a huge fan of that deal with the Dolphins when it went down, but now, it looks like pure genius. I can't see too many teams with a strong enough nickel or safety to cover him one-on-one. He poses a real matchup problem with Moss and Stallworth on the outside.

 

[DanFouts]

As a Charger fan, I am very concerned about playing the Pats now. With that speed at WR, and our crappy nickel package, ughhhhh....

 

[The Jerk]

I truly cannot remember when Brady delivered a TD drive to win a game. I know Brady has led 24 4th quarter and overtime winning drives. However, by my recollection Adam Vinatieri was the last person to touch the ball on most of them. You're the perfect guy to research this and find out how many of the 24 comebacks involved TDs and not FGs.

I'm not going to research every single game, but can you help me understand why Brady leading a game tying TD drive including a two point converstion against San Diego, only to lead them on another drive for a field goal afterwards, is less impressive than a TD drive? Or why a first year QB leading a 14 point underdog against the wire-to-wire Superbowl favorites with just over a minute left in the game when he absolutely cannot afford to throw an interception, has to throw the ball near the sidelines, and is on the biggest of stages, going 5 of 8 (including two spikes of the ball that count as incompletions) for 53 yards to get them into field goal range was less impressive than throwing a TD pass? If you're just looking for a dent in his armor, talk about how he impregnated his ex, threw three picks in the Chargers game, or how he is now only 12-2 in the postseason after starting out 10-0. That's all very embarrassing, I suppose.

If you read my posts throughout this and other threads, you will see that I believe Brady has clearly demonstrated poise and clutch behavior repeatedly during his career. However, I think it is legitimate to point out that most of the memorable late-game drives Brady has orchestrated have been FG drives. I cannot fathom why Brady's performance cannot even be analyzed without Patriot fans mobilizing to his defense.Somehow it's also not allowed by Patriot fans for others to point out that Brady has a pretty fair head coach and that it might also help him a wee little bit to have had a great defense on his sideline for most of his career.Now on to the stats that I have been able to find. I only have 21 4th quarter/OT drives so I apparently am missing three.13 of the 21 drives resulted in FGs.Three drives clearly meet the criteria of being a TD to win the game, all previously listed in the thread. One occurred in 2002 (posted by me) and the other two in 2003 (both listed by BFred).The remaining five drives are TDs that do not fit BnB's initial criteria as the game was either tied or the Patriots trailed by 1 or 2 points. Most of these were TD runs and three of the five involved drives of 32 yards or less.Like PizzaTyme says, we can slice this and dice this until it's obnoxious. It's somewhat understandable why NE fans want to defend their guy. However, it would be nice if we could have honest discussion on a message board, and the QB on the leading contender for the Super Bowl should be fair game for analysis.

I'm having a hard time understanding your post. It seems like you're upset that I looked up the answer to a question you asked, after you asked me twice to look it up for you. It seems like you think I'm not allowing you to suggest that New England had a good head coach or defense, even though I didn't say anything about either one way or the other. I've answered the questions by you and switz as directly as possible, and it's all been an honest discussion of the QB. Why are you playing the martyr card? Is it because I asked you to answer why Brady's undoubtably impressive field goal drive in the 2001 would be any less impressive than his overtime TD pass to win the Miami game? Maybe you see it as being defensive because that's what you want to see or because you're trying to be provocative, but it seems perfectly reasonable to ask why you want the information you've asked for. I'm not sure what else you want me to do.

Fred,I had to call it a night after finishing my post,but I wanted to respond to your comments out of respect for you. Specifically, I don't want you to do anything. In fact, you're one of my favorite posters. It's just my opinion that many of the NE fans posting here get irrationally defensive when anyone dares to say anything remotely negative about Brady or Belichick. I find your insights much more objective than most other Pats fans, but in a few of the posts in this particular thread, I did indeed see a little bit of a defensive posture. Maybe it's me. I just like to discuss football. And for what it's worth, nothing in your posts was any more Patriocentric than comments I make when talking about Steelers past, present and future.I have a lot of respect for the Patriots as a whole and for TB and BB as individuals. However, I still think they are fallible just like every other player and coach. After looking at the results from my previous post, I still think it is reasonable to recognize that Brady's clutch reputation has been aided by having one of the more reliable late-game kickers in NFL history along with a good coaching staff and strong supporting cast (especially on the defense). And for what it's worth, I don't think statements like that are disrespectful or tarnish Brady's image.That's all. Sorry to disappoint anyone rooting for a hidden agenda or fishing trip or anything. My thoughts are just that -- my thoughts -- and they are only observations by one football fan with too much time on his hands during the long offseason.

 

[MiamiShaps]

I still think what Bill did to the Jets was bushleague.

I agree - Belichek has demonstrated some real lack of class the last couple of years. Good thing his squad hasn't, though.

Parcells was trying to play games by changing his own title and promoting Belichick to "head coach" while Parcells didn't actually leave. The Patriots offered him a promotion, and Parcells tried to stop it. Why is it bush for Belichick to try to advance his career out from under Parcells' shadow? Especially given what we know now?

Forget that incident and address the other instances of Belichik demonstrating no-class the last two years - his treatment of Mangini, his tantrums when he loses, etc. For a guy who coached his team to show such class and respect while beating their opponents, he showed a lot of lack of class when his team starts getting defeated.

Kindly refer to Mangini as "Mangenious" for all future postings. The Patriots lost more games this season other than the game to Mangini. Any other examples to back up the "lack of class when his team gets defeated" that are not related to the personal rift between Mangini and Belichick?

 

[djcolts]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

Using poker terms, it looks like pizzatyme is going to lose with quads to a straight flush.

 

[pizzatyme]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

Using poker terms, it looks like pizzatyme is going to lose with quads to a straight flush.

Not so fast, young Grasshoppa. If both enter the game undefeated, I still see no way the Pats are favored. Both being undefeated is a stretch, so we'll see.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

Using poker terms, it looks like pizzatyme is going to lose with quads to a straight flush.

Not so fast, young Grasshoppa. If both enter the game undefeated, I still see no way the Pats are favored. Both being undefeated is a stretch, so we'll see.

I still disagree, although I'll say the Colts look very good. But if the teams were to face today, I still think the Patriots would be a slight favorite, even at Indy. Indy's played in some tight games; the Pats still haven't won by less than 17. Barring a loss or another injury to one of these teams, or maybe a strong performance by Dallas, I just don't see this changing.

I think my real point looks correct, which was that there was nothing to roll your eyes/laugh/think I'm crazy for when I said "I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye. "

We can call this off now, if you want. It's going to be tough enough to police this bet, since all it takes is one book to favor the Pats, or one book to put the Pats on the moneyline, for one of us to at least make an argument. Or if you want we can have the loser give it to charity.

 

[pizzatyme]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

Using poker terms, it looks like pizzatyme is going to lose with quads to a straight flush.

Not so fast, young Grasshoppa. If both enter the game undefeated, I still see no way the Pats are favored. Both being undefeated is a stretch, so we'll see.

I still disagree, although I'll say the Colts look very good. But if the teams were to face today, I still think the Patriots would be a slight favorite, even at Indy. Indy's played in some tight games; the Pats still haven't won by less than 17. Barring a loss or another injury to one of these teams, or maybe a strong performance by Dallas, I just don't see this changing.

I think my real point looks correct, which was that there was nothing to roll your eyes/laugh/think I'm crazy for when I said "I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye. "

We can call this off now, if you want. It's going to be tough enough to police this bet, since all it takes is one book to favor the Pats, or one book to put the Pats on the moneyline, for one of us to at least make an argument. Or if you want we can have the loser give it to charity.

I'm all for giving money to charity. I'm okay calling it off. But I will say that when Dallas blows up Buffalo tonight, I'm not sure that NE will be favored next week, let alone in Indy if both are undefeated.I'll let you make the call there. I'm good either way.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I'm all for giving money to charity. I'm okay calling it off. But I will say that when Dallas blows up Buffalo tonight, I'm not sure that NE will be favored next week, let alone in Indy if both are undefeated.

Just for guessing's sake, I'll say NE favored over Dallas by 4.5, and Indy favored over NE by 1.5, assuming all are undefeated in the respective timeframes...

 

[TD Ryan]

But I will say that when Dallas blows up Buffalo tonight, I'm not sure that NE will be favored next week, let alone in Indy if both are undefeated.

DAL is supposed to blow up BUF tonight.I'm not sure that DAL has anything to gain in reputation by beating up a woeful and wounded BUF team.This is one of those games that an elite team is supposed to win... and if they win, they remain "elite"; if they lose, the "experts" question just how "elite" they are.It's a lot like NE vs. CLE was this week.

 

[pizzatyme]

But I will say that when Dallas blows up Buffalo tonight, I'm not sure that NE will be favored next week, let alone in Indy if both are undefeated.

DAL is supposed to blow up BUF tonight.I'm not sure that DAL has anything to gain in reputation by beating up a woeful and wounded BUF team.This is one of those games that an elite team is supposed to win... and if they win, they remain "elite"; if they lose, the "experts" question just how "elite" they are.It's a lot like NE vs. CLE was this week.

I would normally agree, except they are under lights and that usually means more to T.O. He loves the spotlight.As it looks right now, Dallas will be lucky to win, let alone blow Buffalo out. Don't underestimate the Coyboys fans worldwide that can move the line towards Dallas.

 

[pizzatyme]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

Using poker terms, it looks like pizzatyme is going to lose with quads to a straight flush.

Not so fast, young Grasshoppa. If both enter the game undefeated, I still see no way the Pats are favored. Both being undefeated is a stretch, so we'll see.

I still disagree, although I'll say the Colts look very good. But if the teams were to face today, I still think the Patriots would be a slight favorite, even at Indy. Indy's played in some tight games; the Pats still haven't won by less than 17. Barring a loss or another injury to one of these teams, or maybe a strong performance by Dallas, I just don't see this changing.

I think my real point looks correct, which was that there was nothing to roll your eyes/laugh/think I'm crazy for when I said "I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye. "

We can call this off now, if you want. It's going to be tough enough to police this bet, since all it takes is one book to favor the Pats, or one book to put the Pats on the moneyline, for one of us to at least make an argument. Or if you want we can have the loser give it to charity.

For the record, we have agreed to call this bet off.I can't wait for this game!

 

[eom]

wtf --- you called it off because you were losing??

 

[timschochet]

wtf --- you called it off because you were losing??

Hey EOM,HahahahahahahahahahahahahaColts by 30

 

[bostonfred]

Patriots -6.5. Looks like it wasn't such a laughable statement after all.

 

[Tanner9919]

They still could have some dfensive issues in their secondary. However, they have defintiely improved their situation. I think their over/under will be 12.5.

Giants will beat them , last game of the season,at Giants Stadium...that place is tough to win at in late december...

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Why stop at 2007 and 2008? Let's double that.In fact, for the next four years, the NFL shouldn't even bother playing the games.If they do, it'll be 76 straight wins for the Patriots, and probably by 3 TDs minimum. That might be a record or something. The good news is that we won't have to hear about the champagne popping at some Miami retirement complex anymore.

This guy is prescient

But seriously... some perspective might be warranted

Nevermind

 

[phthalatemagic]

wtf --- you called it off because you were losing??

You saw that he said "we" right? Another example of nutcases looking for a fight when there is none.

 

[culdeus]

I don't think they'll go 16-0, but I think they'll be favored against every single team they play next year until they lose and/or get hit with their inevitable bout of injuries. That includes the Colts, at Indy, right before their bye.

The Samuel situation could still be a problem, they don't have much depth at linebacker or in the secondary, and if Brady or Maroney go down this team could be in trouble. But starting today they will without a doubt be the Vegas favorites to win the Superbowl.

Let's place a bet right now on who will be favored in that game. I say it will be the Patriots. $10? $100? -->

I'm in for $100. Mark it down.

Confirmed and bookmarked.

sweet - you guys are not betting on the game, but instead betting on who is going to be favored? That's awesome.

Wait, where is this game being played? Can I get in on this? If this is in NE barring some wierdness it's gonna be NE by 3 or more. At Indy and it might be indy -1.5 or so. I can't see vegas making them home dogs in any situation barring a manning injury.

Holy #### I'm dumb

 

[BusterTBronco]

Ain't nobody can stop em.

The Patriots are just TOO GOOD!

Just like the Red Sox winning the World Series, it now seems inevitable that the Patriots will go 19-0 and take their rightful place as the best team in NFL history.

 

[bostonfred]

Another one was the overtime win in Miami in 2003, when Brady hit Troy Brown on a long distance pass to extend the Patriots' streak to overtake them for the lead in the division and break their streak of losing in Miami.

I'm looking up this info on the Pats official website. I found a TD pass to Patten in Week 10 of 2002 with 20 seconds left to complete a big comeback against the Bears, 33-30. Through 2001-2002, 7 of 8 game-winning 4th qtr/OT drives have been FGs.

Another bulletpoint on the list of Brady's accomplishments - he made a fourth quarter comeback in the Colts game from down 14 by scoring two TDs, and came back twice against the Eagles last night, both for touchdowns.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Ain't nobody can stop em.The Patriots are just TOO GOOD!Just like the Red Sox winning the World Series, it now seems inevitable that the Patriots will go 19-0 and take their rightful place as the best team in NFL history.

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