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Footballguy
You can't be serious...
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NFL Head Coach Power Rankings (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
:whoosh:
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He is serious. And don't call him Shirley.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
What role do you see a head coach play? If Pagano is a defensive coach previously, you think he has no say in the offense? Or does a HC just get to toss the red flag during games?
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Shed some light here. Arians has complete control of the offense without input from Pagano?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Honestly? I think he decides when to go for it on 4th down/challenge plays/call time outs... and leaves pretty much everything else to Arians.Why would it be any different than that. Pagano has never been an offensive coach at any level of football.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I agree. Arians is a fine choice for this list. He's done great filling in for the 1-2 Pagano.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
I wonder if he plays angry birds during half time and during meeting time/ game preparation all week?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I'd just like to see if Pagano could NAME anyone on his offense other than Luck and Wayne.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
I'm done with your fishing.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I was about to type the same thing.
Whizzinator
Footballguy
Yes, actually, I do.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I think it's hilarious that he has Harbaugh over Coughlin.
Blick
Footballguy
Agreed on the Tomlin point. Clock management has been terrible also.It really helps a Head Coach to have a francise QB (Ben), a great D-Coordinator (**** Lebeau), and ownership that understand how to run a successful team/business.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Funny, you can just substitute "Reid" for "Tomlin" and its 100% accurate. QB, McNabb; DC, Jim Johnson.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Good thing we didn't judge Belichick based on his early work in Cleveland. Allen isn't inspiring a lot of confidence, but he also doesn't have much to work with. I'm willing to be patient to let Reggie get him the players he needs. P.S. Fox is still the guy who got run out of Carolina. Call me crazy, but I think Manning has a lot to do with your success.'moleculo said:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
The Colts may be using Pagano's concepts and schemes, but we still have no idea how good of a game day coach he is, and that is a big part of how good a coach someone is, so giving him anything more than an Incomplete at this point is borderline crazy.
butcher boy
Footballguy
If anything keeps Coughlin in the second tier, it's these mid-season lulls that the Giants seem to always get into. That's mainly on the coaching, IMO.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Isn't part of this thread about putting a quality staff together to build a young team? It would appear that Pagano has done that with his staff, no?I feel like I answered the original question of the thread. Now we are trying to morph the thread into something else. I get it, Pagano hasn't been on the sidelines most of the season. I also understand that he is in constant contact with his staff and players. The team is playing hard. Now, maybe they decided to play hard once Arians took over. I don't believe that to be the case. I feel like Pagano laid the groundwork in the offseason and it is bearing fruit under his staff's tutelage.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Were "Pagano's schemes" responsible for that 35-33 defensive slugfest?
Faust
MVP
NFL Coach of the Year race: Colts' Bruce Arians in front
By Kareem Copeland
Around the League Writer
By Kareem Copeland
Around the League Writer
Donnybrook
Footballguy
bucksoh
Footballguy
As a Steeler fan Tomlin doesn't deserve to be in this group, he should be in the something to provegroup all he as proven so far is that he can coach a great team he inherited. Alot of the coaches
could have done the exact same thing and probally better. He does know how to run a team into the ground,
I pray Lebeau doesn't retire.
The Comedian
Footballguy
Was someone actually arguing to put Pagano in the top group of HC's for a team's success while he was undergoing/recovering from cancer treatment away from the team? 
Faust
MVP
Donnybrook
Footballguy
IMO Thomas Dimitroff personel moves makes Mike Smith look good. Who could forget the questionable onside kick in the playoff game vs Seattle?
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Whoa, Dennis Allen goes from "knocking on the door" to #32.
I suppose the only good news to come out of this is that almost nobody knows who Elliot Harrison is.
I suppose the only good news to come out of this is that almost nobody knows who Elliot Harrison is.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
For the most part, they're ranked by their history/longevity with current team it seems. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think Carroll should be higher and Reid should be lower to name a couple.
And why is Pagano behind Schiano, Philbin, Munchak, and Arians. I know he pretty much missed a year, but he lead that team from nothing to a playoff contender through a cancer battle. Arians was a puppet imo.
Meh.
And why is Pagano behind Schiano, Philbin, Munchak, and Arians. I know he pretty much missed a year, but he lead that team from nothing to a playoff contender through a cancer battle. Arians was a puppet imo.
Meh.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Game day coaching is too big a factor in how good of a coach one is, and we simply didn't see enough out of Pagano last year to really know how good he is in that regard.
But I agree with Donnybrook about Mike Smith. The guy has a fantastic record as the Falcons coach, but I swear, every Falcons game I watch, he makes several inexplicably dumb coaching moves (many of which often do not cost his team, but they are still bad moves).
But I agree with Donnybrook about Mike Smith. The guy has a fantastic record as the Falcons coach, but I swear, every Falcons game I watch, he makes several inexplicably dumb coaching moves (many of which often do not cost his team, but they are still bad moves).
Borden
Footballguy
This feels like a list that was written in about an hour. Maybe it is just that I've come to expect more then just conversation starter. Maybe if this came out during the season when everyone is busy I would understand but since things are mostly slow right now I am pretty disappointed with this.
Edit: Fluff pieces, lazy writing and articles with intentions of just starting controversy drive me crazy.
Edit: Fluff pieces, lazy writing and articles with intentions of just starting controversy drive me crazy.
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Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I'd still rather McCarthy than anyone else. I think he's been hamstrung by some faulty drafting. I put that on Ted Thompson though.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Umm...huh?
I think you can put several things on both of them as to why MM is not at the top (inexplicably abandoning an effective running game at times being a big one on McCarthy)
Adam Harstad
Moderator
I would argue that game day coaching (with the very notable exception of play calling, which is frequently handled by an assistant, anyway) is by far the smallest factor in determining how good of a coach one is, it just happens to be the most visible.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
What would you consider the biggest factor if not making sound coaching decisions on game day? Assuming that position coaches are doing the teaching.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
If we assume that the position coaches are doing all of the teaching, then I'd say assembling a good staff is the biggest factor.
Ultimately, I view the head coach as more of a CEO than a coach. He's ultimately responsible for making sure his team is meeting goals in certain areas- player development, motivation, use of resources, scheming and installing a gameplan, playcalling, in-game management. Some coaches are more autocratic, while others are more delegators. Mike Shanahan is very hands-on when it comes to installing an offense. John Fox is not- he'll hire a coordinator and let that coordinator do his thing. Shanahan wants to run a very particular offense. Fox is very flexible (as the last two seasons have demonstrated). Neither answer is "right" or "wrong", the only thing that matters is the quality of the results. If a coach hires fantastic position coaches who teach all the fundamentals and fantastic coordinators who create amazing schemes, and then the coach goes and plays a round of golf, then that's still a wonderful coach. If the coach hires a bunch of unpaid interns and does all of the coaching and scheming himself, but produces similar results, then that's still a wonderful coach, too.
As I see it, the coach's main responsibilities are overseeing player development (i.e. making sure every player on the team is improving), roster development (creating a 53-man roster, deciding inactives, creating depth charts, fostering competition, and playing his best players), creating an overall scheme or "identity" (making sure every player has clearly delineated responsibilities and helping that player succeed at those responsibilities), installing weekly game-plans (creating wrinkles in the general identity designed to take advantage of the specific weekly opponent), executing those game-plans (calling plays), motivating his players (ensuring that players are executing as close to peak level as consistently as possible), and managing the flow of the game (calling timeouts, working clock stoppages, using challenges). I might be overlooking some things, but that seems like a reasonable broad-strokes job description. Whether he handles those areas directly or delegates authority, he is responsible for ensuring all of that gets taken care of.
Now, if we envision a coach who is absolutely fantastic at all of those areas except he's the worst in the league at player development, I don't think he'd be a very good coach- his team would just hemorrhage talent until it's the worst squad in the league. Likewise, a coach who can't manage the depth chart and play his best players is in trouble. A coach who doesn't create a team identity will never get anywhere, and a coach who is so vanilla and predictable that he doesn't tailor his scheme to his opponent will preside over a team that fades hard at the end of every season. A coach who is worst in the league at motivating his players will likely be ousted by mutiny before long. Meanwhile, if you had a coach who was excellent at every other area, but absolutely abysmal at managing game-flow, how good could he be? Well, Andy Reid managed to make 5 NFCCG appearances and one SB appearance in 12 years despite being pretty universally regarded as one of the worst in-game managers in the league today. John Fox went 13-3 last year and earn the #1 seed. Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher both had amazing careers despite being "too conservative". A lot of these guys tended to underachieve in the playoffs (although Reid and Dungy combined to go 19-19 in the postseason, which is actually a pretty darn good record), but it's possible a lot of that was simply because the team overachieved so much during the regular season. If you take a squad that had no business making the playoffs, earn a 5 or 6 seed, and get eliminated in wildcard weekend, is that a negative? If you take a team that should have been a 4 or 5 seed, put up a huge winning streak and capture home field advantage, but then get eliminated early, is that a disappointment?
Either way, If I were going to hire a coach who was fantastic in almost every area, but who had a major deficiency in one, I would gladly take the guy who sucked at in-game management every single time. I would prefer if he was better at in-game management (or if he'd just hire someone whose only job was managing games), but obviously the guys who are great at everything (Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh, Bill Walsh) are pretty hard to find. If I was going to take a flawed coach, I'd rather his flaws be in game management than player development or scheme, because I just think game management is by far the smallest part of a coach's job description, even if it's the most visible.
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TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Dimitroff has certainly been very solid in building a very talented roster. And as a Falcon fan, the botched squibb kick almost game me a heart attack. But in 5 seasons as the Falcons HC, the Falcons have only lost back-to-back game 3 times (all during the 2009 season). He gets the team ready to play every week it seems and when they do trip up, it never spirals. What I would say is that I think he starts to play it safe too much when the Falcons get up...doesn't have that Sean Payton like quality of gouging his opponent when his foot on their throat. Killer instinct is lacking.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Steelers fan and I would put Belichick in a tier by himself.
Mike Tomlin Jim Harbaugh and Tom Coughlin in the next tier.
Mike Tomlin Jim Harbaugh and Tom Coughlin in the next tier.
Khy
Footballguy
Top Shelf: Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin
Nobody else in the NFL has done what these two have done. There's still a very solid chance that Coughlin and Eli combine for the third super bowl. Technically you should put Belichick in a league by his own, if you do that then you'd probably also have to put Coughlin in a league by himself. The man single handedly took an expansion team to a NFC champsionship VERY shortly after they came into the NFL. And in his years with the Giants has taken two teams that nobody gave a chance and coached them into Super Bowl winning teams, including a win against arguably the best team in NFL history. But to have anyone besides Coughlin up there with Belichick is outrageous.
Next Level: Mike McCarthy, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Mike Shanahan, John Harbaugh
I don't think you can put Andy Reid in this list. McCarthy, Tomlin, John Harbaugh and Shanahan are all proven Super Bowl coaches. Shanahan has taken a Redskins team that was complete garbage and made them into a division winner. They will only get better from here. The work he did last season sculpting the offense to work around RG3's strengths was amazing and nobody makes unknown RBs into gold like he does. Jim Harbaugh has been great, but if he doesn't win a SB in the next 2-3 years he'll go the way of Rex Ryan who also inherited a team with a ton of talent and had a few amazing years before the team became trash because he was never actually that good. McCarthy will likely end up escalating himself to the top shelf with Belichick and Coughlin, I don't really see a scenario where him and Rodgers don't win at least one more SB before they part ways. Older brother John will need to prove that he's worthy of this level in the next season or two, he's lost a lot of his defensive leadership and will need to prove he is the reason they were winning and not Ray and Ed.
Knocking on the Door: Pete Carroll, Gary Kubiak, John Fox
In two years Pete Carroll has turned the Seahawks into what is in my opinion the most well rounded and talented team in the NFL and my front runner for Super Bowl winner this season. Kubiak has slowly turned the Texans into a good football team, unfortunately they probably only have another 2 or 3 years to really make an impact before they start losing all of their talent. Andre Johnson, Foster and Schaub are all nearing the end of their NFL relevance. A lot of his success can be attributed to Wade Phillips at DC also. John Fox probably got lucky with the Peyton singing but lets face it he's made good teams before and Denver is a powerhouse right now.
Everyone else can be down here, they're all either unproven or just suck.
Nobody else in the NFL has done what these two have done. There's still a very solid chance that Coughlin and Eli combine for the third super bowl. Technically you should put Belichick in a league by his own, if you do that then you'd probably also have to put Coughlin in a league by himself. The man single handedly took an expansion team to a NFC champsionship VERY shortly after they came into the NFL. And in his years with the Giants has taken two teams that nobody gave a chance and coached them into Super Bowl winning teams, including a win against arguably the best team in NFL history. But to have anyone besides Coughlin up there with Belichick is outrageous.
Next Level: Mike McCarthy, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Mike Shanahan, John Harbaugh
I don't think you can put Andy Reid in this list. McCarthy, Tomlin, John Harbaugh and Shanahan are all proven Super Bowl coaches. Shanahan has taken a Redskins team that was complete garbage and made them into a division winner. They will only get better from here. The work he did last season sculpting the offense to work around RG3's strengths was amazing and nobody makes unknown RBs into gold like he does. Jim Harbaugh has been great, but if he doesn't win a SB in the next 2-3 years he'll go the way of Rex Ryan who also inherited a team with a ton of talent and had a few amazing years before the team became trash because he was never actually that good. McCarthy will likely end up escalating himself to the top shelf with Belichick and Coughlin, I don't really see a scenario where him and Rodgers don't win at least one more SB before they part ways. Older brother John will need to prove that he's worthy of this level in the next season or two, he's lost a lot of his defensive leadership and will need to prove he is the reason they were winning and not Ray and Ed.
Knocking on the Door: Pete Carroll, Gary Kubiak, John Fox
In two years Pete Carroll has turned the Seahawks into what is in my opinion the most well rounded and talented team in the NFL and my front runner for Super Bowl winner this season. Kubiak has slowly turned the Texans into a good football team, unfortunately they probably only have another 2 or 3 years to really make an impact before they start losing all of their talent. Andre Johnson, Foster and Schaub are all nearing the end of their NFL relevance. A lot of his success can be attributed to Wade Phillips at DC also. John Fox probably got lucky with the Peyton singing but lets face it he's made good teams before and Denver is a powerhouse right now.
Everyone else can be down here, they're all either unproven or just suck.
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