8 seconds left, 1 timeout left. Instead of completing a short pass and calling a quick timeout he calls for Schaub to run to the middle of the field keeping it a 49 yd FG. Did he think that was a chipshot or something? Just complete an 8-10 yd pass and that becomes a much easier FG. I dont understand the stupidity of these coaches sometimes.
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No discussion on how bad Kubiak messed up last night? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jobarules
- Start date
Wu-banger
Footballguy
It was mentioned on ESPN (Jaws I think)... Kubiak looked like he had unjustified confidence in Kris Brown.Quick Slant or Dig to Andre Johnson would probably gained them another 10 yards at least since there probably no press covereage on that play (would have to see a replay) Still a makeable kick.
I was scratching my head after this one too. Actually, I think he lost a yard turning it from a 48 yarder into a 49 yarder.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Yeah, I thought that was terrible. I understand there's risk involved, but that doesn't mean you can't take a risk. The "safe" play in one respect is to take the knee in the middle of the field; to me, though, that's the risky play: you're banking on your kicker who missed from 50 earlier to now hit a 50 yarder. Eek.
You throw a 10-yard pass and you make that FG much more reasonable. You could also try a shot at the end zone. With 8 seconds left and 1 timeout, you have to do something. He was coaching scared, IMO, more happy to let the axe fall on his kicker than on his own head. You could run many different types of plays and take seven or fewer seconds off the clock.
You throw a 10-yard pass and you make that FG much more reasonable. You could also try a shot at the end zone. With 8 seconds left and 1 timeout, you have to do something. He was coaching scared, IMO, more happy to let the axe fall on his kicker than on his own head. You could run many different types of plays and take seven or fewer seconds off the clock.
Hellfire Snail
Footballguy
Yeah, guy was not in a good place mentally. That kick was horrid and just screamed choke. Also think he was expecting a timeout, and Fisher smartly screwed with him by not screwing with him.
phthalatemagic
Footballguy
It was the right call
SuperJohn96
RPS World Champion
A sack would have been disastrous.
top dog
Footballguy
Maybe, but so was letting Brown try a long ### field goal.
' Source says Bears, Texans 'would excite' Cowher
11/24/2009 12:01:00 PM
David Haugh of the Chicago Tribune reports an NFL Network report Monday night cited a source that said the idea of coaching the Bears or Texans "would excite,'' Cowher if the job becomes open.
The same report said Cowher would command in the range of $10 million per-season - a staggering price even for a head coach with a Super Bowl ring.'
It looks like Bob McNair may have had enough of Kubiak.
11/24/2009 12:01:00 PM
David Haugh of the Chicago Tribune reports an NFL Network report Monday night cited a source that said the idea of coaching the Bears or Texans "would excite,'' Cowher if the job becomes open.
The same report said Cowher would command in the range of $10 million per-season - a staggering price even for a head coach with a Super Bowl ring.'
It looks like Bob McNair may have had enough of Kubiak.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
As opposed to a missed field goal?
jamil
Footballguy
if he does come here i hope he doesn't change the D to a 3-4.
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
I'd love to see Cowher in Chicago. It fits.Texans? Not so much.
dgreen
Footballguy
Then run.:rocketsurgery:
He missed on a 49 yd attempt earlier in the game
Anything but what they did made senseSchaub lost a yard on his kneeldown
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
NFL teams usually make this call on what happens in pre-game. Brown has a huge leg..the distance was not the issue.
BaBastage
Footballguy
True, but on longer kicks, the kicker has to put more strength into the kick, at the expense of accuracy.I'm not a football kicker, so correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe it's like Golf, where a good swing gets you more distance than hitting the ball harder, but I don't think so.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I couldn't find better stat groupings, but Brown over his career:
30-39 yards 81%
40-49 yards 68%
50+ yards 58%
I would guess that with another 10 yards the % increase would have been about 10%.
30-39 yards 81%
40-49 yards 68%
50+ yards 58%
I would guess that with another 10 yards the % increase would have been about 10%.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Same thing happened to Scott Norwood. Levy played it safe, ran up the middle, and settled for a 47 yard field goal. Not a good decision.
cardsharky
Footballguy
Does anyone recall how many seconds were allowed to tick off the clock before calling the timeout at 8 seconds?
I thought maybe there were 12 or 13 seconds left.
It's clear the coach only wanted one real play - that being the kick.
We're not talking about Bironas we're talking about a guy who choked against INDY and now you don't want to get him any closer.
Maybe the idiot Coach (whose OC called lousy plays when they had a chance to take the lead but settled for a tying field goal) wanted the kick to be as far as possible so that when his kicker made it all confidence levels would be high going forward.
It seems like Kubiak is a card carrying member of the Eric Mangini fan club.
I thought maybe there were 12 or 13 seconds left.
It's clear the coach only wanted one real play - that being the kick.
We're not talking about Bironas we're talking about a guy who choked against INDY and now you don't want to get him any closer.
Maybe the idiot Coach (whose OC called lousy plays when they had a chance to take the lead but settled for a tying field goal) wanted the kick to be as far as possible so that when his kicker made it all confidence levels would be high going forward.
It seems like Kubiak is a card carrying member of the Eric Mangini fan club.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
???They clocked the ball on 2nd down at :08. They only had one timeout left and they used it after 3rd down at :06.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think the difference between 49 and 39 is more than 10%, but I could be wrong. I'd say a 39 yard FG in a dome is about 80% successful, whereas the 49-yarder is about 50%.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I wish we had a breakdown in more increments for over 39 yards. I'm thinking the % for 47-49 is a lot different than 40-42.Any decent kicker rarely misses inside 30, and 30-39 is still in the mid-to-high 80s.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Aren't you the guy that can produce historical numbers on everything? What's up with the guessing?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
You're definitely correct.PFR now has those breakdowns, but it will take awhile for that to hit the site. It is just kicker data, after all.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Given that his conversion rate for 50 yards or more has been 58%, I don't see how you could argue that from 49 yards it would only be 50%.Brown's success rate on kicks indoors over his career:30-39 82%40-49 82% (Prior to last night)50+ yards 75%
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Tanner9919
Footballguy
Shanahan to Houston, IMO..his son coaches there works for Kubiak can't see Kubiak staying on as head coach beyond 2009.the offensive system is identical to Denver's system under Shanny/Kubiak.and Shanny could step in and probably go to the SB next year.that team is `thisclose` to busting out..
Lobary
Footballguy
I am a Texans homer who is unhappy with Kubiak today, but I am less upset about not getting the ball closer for Kris Brown on that third down play than I am the use of the other Brown. Even if that were a 39-45 yard FG attempt, I'm not confident that he would've made it because he's been slumping all year. He doesn't seem to have the clutchness of his past kicks. He can make game-winning kicks in games that don't really matter, but can he do it when the team has to win to keep its playoff hopes alive? I'm not sure.
My beef with Kubiak last night was his cutesiness using Chris Brown outta nowhere and getting him most of the carries. Brown was terrible. Steve Slaton's had fumblitis, but he's your best running back by far. Use him, not someone who is a plodder. Slaton is a threat to take it to the house on any given play. I'll take the risk of him fumbling for the reward of him gashing the defense if the opening is there.
My beef with Kubiak last night was his cutesiness using Chris Brown outta nowhere and getting him most of the carries. Brown was terrible. Steve Slaton's had fumblitis, but he's your best running back by far. Use him, not someone who is a plodder. Slaton is a threat to take it to the house on any given play. I'll take the risk of him fumbling for the reward of him gashing the defense if the opening is there.
The longer the distance, the more leg needs to be in kick which brings in the great possibility of a hook. If he were closer the chances of a hook are reduced greatly
Lobary
Footballguy
Kris Brown has plenty of leg to make that kick. It's his head, not his leg.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
The NFL average at 50 is around 50%http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1716
I see Brown as 4/6 on 50+ yard FGs from indoors, but maybe he's 6/8 or whatever you saw to get him at 75%. Either way, that doesn't differ materially from the NFL average (a sample size of 6 or 8 FGs is not significant). Only the best FG kickers attempt 50+ yarders, so if anything you need to be a good kicker to even be included in the average of roughly 50%. Of course, a 50 yard FG is easier than your average 50+ yarder, which is probably around 53 or 54 yards.
Anyway, I feel that it's reasonable to say that the kick last night was a 50/50 proposition, or close to it.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Good to see we are back to the same problems as in the mammoth 4th and 2 threads. The numbers are the numbers.Even though the samples are relatively small . . .
Brown's career numbers:
6 of 8 in 50 yards+ indoors
14 of 17 from 40-49 yards indoors (prior to last night)
5 of 6 from 50+ in "late and close" situations
If you want to guess 50%, I guess I can't argue against your Spidey sense.
I agree they probably should have tried to get closer. I'm not sure I agree that his chance of success was only 50% from 49 yards and that the chance of making would go up by 30% in gaining another 10 yards.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
I kicked in college for a Div III school - I would only hook it that bad when I was trying to kill the ball to get an extra few yards....that was a shank. May not have tried to kick it so hard if it was only a 39 yder. Still may have missed it as it was in his head but you can't play conservative there and take a knee!
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yep, it was an awful decision. Too many coaches play conservative there, as if they take a sack or commit a turnover, they are the goat for their team not even having the chance at making the FG, but really, depending on your kicker to make a long FG like that instead of taking the time you still had to get closer is just dumb. Baltimore did the same thing against Minnesota earlier this season, and their kicker also missed the FG (which would have won them the game).
Resident A
Footballguy
Even worse was the playcall to throw a WR screen to Slaton on 3rd & goal at the 8 yard line instead of throwing a pass into the end zone. Had they got the TD there, all the rest would be irrelevant.
FavreCo
Footballguy
I know I have.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
What did they say during the broadcast last night...the Texans have lost 4 games in the final minute (or had a chance to win and did not)?I know the Cards stopped them 3 times at the 1 to hang on 21-28...I'm guessing they had a chance to win or tie v. Jax and Indy as well??ETA: conversly, they won 3 point games against the Titans and 49ers
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Abraham
Footballguy
The Texans backs have been AWFUL this year with fumbles. Absolutely awful. Dropping back to pass might get you a few yards but who knows. While it might have been nice to see the Oline actually try and get a push so Schaub could gain a few yards, that play didn't cost them the game. The kick would have been bad from the 20, distance had nothing to do with it.
I also think that one unheraleded piece in all this was FIsher NOT icing the kicker. The commentators were going on and on about how he was going to call timeout and the network went to a split-screen. But based on the Indy game a few weeks ago, there was no doubt in my mind that Fisher wasn't calling timeout. Instead, you let Brown stand there anticipating the TO and then....OOOPS, THE BALL HAS BEEN SNAPPED AND NOW I HAVE TO KICK IT!
I also think that one unheraleded piece in all this was FIsher NOT icing the kicker. The commentators were going on and on about how he was going to call timeout and the network went to a split-screen. But based on the Indy game a few weeks ago, there was no doubt in my mind that Fisher wasn't calling timeout. Instead, you let Brown stand there anticipating the TO and then....OOOPS, THE BALL HAS BEEN SNAPPED AND NOW I HAVE TO KICK IT!
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
Yes.Shanny to Houston where Kyle already is...and Cowher to Chicago just makes a lot more sense to me.Kubiag is just stinking it up.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Disagree. He would have approached the kick differently from a much closer distance. You don't see kickers put all their leg into a short FG. Chip shots aren't made at a higher % simply because of distance, it's because you can concentrate more on aim and direction than power. The more power you put into a kick, the more likely it is to stray off course.Regardless, whether Brown made the kick or missed the kick, the right move was to try and pick up more yards. The result of play n doesn't necessarily justify the decision on play n-1.
The biggest difference in that game to me was the pressure that the Titans put on Schaub and the lack of pressure that the Texans put on Young. Schaub was awesome passing, but he took several sacks that seemed to always stop the drives. Contrast that to Youngs on again and off again accuracy. but he converted multiple third downs running and hardly ever looked rushed in the pocket or out of it. And Chris Johnson is good.
Regarding the kick, this is the second time in three weeks that Kris Brown missed a clutch kick at the end of the game. Seems more logical that you would be doing everything possible to extend the game and decrease the length of the FG attempt rather than obviously putting all your eggs in the kicker's basket.
Regarding the kick, this is the second time in three weeks that Kris Brown missed a clutch kick at the end of the game. Seems more logical that you would be doing everything possible to extend the game and decrease the length of the FG attempt rather than obviously putting all your eggs in the kicker's basket.
Beau Tocks
Footballguy
This Chris Brown love last night befuddles me as well. I am not a Slaton owner but C .Brown's poor ypc avg. did nothing vs. the Titans. Where was Moats BTW?
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
I thought the Texans brought pretty good pressure many times, but Young was just able to step up in the pocket or get away from it. He, Johnson, and Heimerdinger also were able to slow the pass rush, forcing the front 7 away from a normal attacking mode to more of a hesitatant "read & react" mode than normal with the zone read plays, the option pitches, the designed qb runs, and the rollout passes with the option to run. That defense was in a bind.
