NY State Sues to dissolve the NRA (1 Viewer)

[Boston]

The NRA, as a legal entity, is a creation of New York State, which retains jurisdiction over matters relating to the control and management of the corporation.

For other purposes, the state of the corporation’s principal place of business would have jurisdiction, but only New York has jurisdiction to dissolve or determine the composition of the management of a New York corporation.

Thanks, that clears that up.

 

[BladeRunner]

The NRA has been misspending for years. They have a number of different NRA affiliated charities that funnel money to them, which they funnel to their pac, which spent $30 million in 2016 to elect trump. There is also the whole Torshin/Butina NRA connection and questionable financial ties to russian oligarchs that Republicans refused to investigate. All these issues and infighting between North and LaPierre has been reported over the last few years. Why does this have to be “a political ploy?” Isn’t there are least a chance that it could be a credible investigation and that they have misspent? 

They have?  how do you know?

It's so obvious it's a hit job that I would question your abilities if you DON'T see it.  Democart AG?  Check.  Election year?  Check.  Go after biggest GOP fundraiser?  check.

If she was really interested in misspending and corruption, she would have sued the Unions and George Soros by now.

 

[Snorkelson]

They have?  how do you know?

It's so obvious it's a hit job that I would question your abilities if you DON'T see it.  Democart AG?  Check.  Election year?  Check.  Go after biggest GOP fundraiser?  check.

If she was really interested in misspending and corruption, she would have sued the Unions and George Soros by now.

From 2018- broke and on the verge of collapse....Also they have been investigating this for over a year now, so it’s not like the AG pulled this out of thin air. 
 

eta wrong investigation- this one has been ongoing since April. 

 

[GroveDiesel]

They have?  how do you know?

It's so obvious it's a hit job that I would question your abilities if you DON'T see it.  Democart AG?  Check.  Election year?  Check.  Go after biggest GOP fundraiser?  check.

If she was really interested in misspending and corruption, she would have sued the Unions and George Soros by now.

Do you have any proof that the NRA is one of the GOP’s biggest fundraisers?

 

[Opie]

The NRA decided to keep their incorporation in NY.

I am sure they'll be relocating to Texas soon.

 

[Lutherman2112]

I am sure they'll be relocating to Texas soon.

The NRA is broke. They will be dissolved for not following NY law.

There will be nothing left to move to Texas, except maybe Heston's rifle.

 

[quick-hands]

The NRA is broke. They will be dissolved for not following NY law.

There will be nothing left to move to Texas, except maybe Heston's rifle.

The only thing that the NRA needs is its contact list.

 

[Lutherman2112]

A good read from December 2019:

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/12/nra-discloses-spending-on-foreign-fundraising/

 

[Rich Conway]

I haven't read much on this; just skimmed a couple articles.  This seems like politically-motivated overreach, and a stupid one at that.

If the officers and other parties are guilty of the alleged crimes, by all means, let's prosecute them and lock them away.  I'm absolutely in favor of prison time for major embezzlement or financial crimes, as I don't believe monetary punishments are an effective deterrent here (committing a crime to steal 10 million is still profitable when the punishment is a fine of 5 million).  However, dissolving the entity as a whole seems wrong in general.  For those who would argue otherwise, replace "NRA" with "Planned Parenthood", "ACLU", or even "***Official*** (Fictional) Charity to Research Cancer" and consider whether your feelings change.  I might consider dissolution justified if this were a repeated event, after a first prosecution of individuals involved, involving different officers of the same organization.

Regarding the stupidity, this seems like a particularly poor time to do this, if one is a liberal and generally opposed to the NRA.  This type of headline is unlikely to motivate liberals or swing voters to vote D more than they are currently inclined, but it does seem like it could motivate pro-NRA single-issue voters to donate/vote R.

 

[Courtjester]

I'd be thrilled to see the NRA go away but I really hope this doesn't turn into a rallying cry that drives people to Trump in November.

This---you know if you are a Democrat politician running this year, you are just   right now and saying, "Why do this now?" This will become the  "See, they ARE coming to take your guns," rallying cry, bank on it. 

 

[shadrap]

I haven't read much on this; just skimmed a couple articles.  This seems like politically-motivated overreach, and a stupid one at that.

If the officers and other parties are guilty of the alleged crimes, by all means, let's prosecute them and lock them away.  I'm absolutely in favor of prison time for major embezzlement or financial crimes, as I don't believe monetary punishments are an effective deterrent here (committing a crime to steal 10 million is still profitable when the punishment is a fine of 5 million).  However, dissolving the entity as a whole seems wrong in general.  For those who would argue otherwise, replace "NRA" with "Planned Parenthood" and consider whether your feelings change.  I might consider dissolution justified if this were a repeated event, after a first prosecution of individuals involved, involving different officers of the same organization.

Regarding the stupidity, this seems like a particularly poor time to do this, if one is a liberal and generally opposed to the NRA.  This type of headline is unlikely to motivate liberals or swing voters to vote D more than they are currently inclined, but it does seem like it could motivate pro-NRA single-issue voters to donate/vote R.

agree.  good post!

 

[psychobillies]

This---you know if you are a Democrat politician running this year, you are just   right now and saying, "Why do this now?" This will become the  "See, they ARE coming to take your guns," rallying cry, bank on it. 

It's really hard to argue against this being the case now, isn't it?  

 

[sho nuff]

It's really hard to argue against this being the case now, isn't it?  

No...how is it the case?

 

[Sabertooth]

The NRA.  Lol.  Go back to Russia you clowns.  

 

[psychobillies]

No...how is it the case?

Between trying to dissolve the organization that has done more to protect the 2nd amendment than any other, and then hearing the head of the democratic party pledge to put Beto in charge of his gun control policy I don't think it's a leap to come to the conclusion that democrats want to take your guns.   

 

[sho nuff]

Between trying to dissolve the organization that has done more to protect the 2nd amendment than any other, and then hearing the head of the democratic party pledge to put Beto in charge of his gun control policy I don't think it's a leap to come to the conclusion that democrats want to take your guns.   

Id disagree that the NRA has done that...also, this is a legal issue not a democrat trying to do so and so.

I think its a huge leap and always has been.

 

[joffer]

Between trying to dissolve the organization that has done more to protect the 2nd amendment than any other, and then hearing the head of the democratic party pledge to put Beto in charge of his gun control policy I don't think it's a leap to come to the conclusion that democrats want to take your guns.   

common sense gun control <> wanting to take your guns.  and dissolving the NRA wouldn't do a thing to affect either of those from happening.

 

[psychobillies]

Id disagree that the NRA has done that...also, this is a legal issue not a democrat trying to do so and so.

I think its a huge leap and always has been.

I would agree if they were prosecuting individuals, but seeking to dissolve the NRA makes it an seem like an obvious attempt to remove protection for gun rights.  I understand if someone were to disagree.  I am curious about who you think has done more to protect the 2nd.  Either way, I think it's safe to say that the NRA has been a great supporter of gun rights.

What about Beto as a gun Czar?

 

[sho nuff]

Congress and the Supreme Court have done more.

Beto has zero power and has Biden said a word about him since a quip in March when Beto endorsed him?

 

[psychobillies]

common sense gun control <> wanting to take your guns.  and dissolving the NRA wouldn't do a thing to affect either of those from happening.

https://youtu.be/QR4mNrW0AlE

Surely you've seen that.  His complete lack of understanding about anything gun related is not common sense.  All guns are designed to kill things with high velocity rounds.  An AR-15 is not a military weapon.

Anyway, there's Biden's gun Czar saying he wants to take our guns.  Guns that are legally owned by American citizens right now.  I'm not sure how it's possible to draw a different conclusion.  I'm just going by what they say.  

 

[psychobillies]

Congress and the Supreme Court have done more.

Beto has zero power and has Biden said a word about him since a quip in March when Beto endorsed him?

I agree on the first point.  I was thinking non governmental entities, but you're right.  Obviously the founders too if we're going there. 

We're both aware that Beto has no power now, and i thought it was clear that I was talking about what would happen if the democrats won the election.  Am I supposed to dismiss something he clearly said because he hasn't repeated it recently?  Again, I'm just going by what they said, not assuming anything.

 

[sho nuff]

I agree on the first point.  I was thinking non governmental entities, but you're right.  Obviously the founders too if we're going there. 

We're both aware that Beto has no power now, and i thought it was clear that I was talking about what would happen if the democrats won the election.  Am I supposed to dismiss something he clearly said because he hasn't repeated it recently?  Again, I'm just going by what they said, not assuming anything.

I guess his comments seemed almost joking vs actually naming Beto anything.

 

[psychobillies]

I guess his comments seemed almost joking vs actually naming Beto anything.

So he was just joking?  Has he said that anywhere?

 

[Lutherman2112]

Recent:

‘I don’t trust them any more’: how the NRA became its own worst enemy

Oliver North cut a lonely figure as he walked through the Indianapolis airport, quietly slipping out of the city midway through the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) convention which was still in progress. A day later, North announced from afar that he was not seeking a traditional second term as its president, while it also emerged that the New York attorney general was investigating the NRA’s tax-exempt status.

That was April 2019. More than a year later, the turmoil that heralded North’s departure has culminated in the New York attorney general, Letitia James, suing to put the NRA out of business, alleging that senior leaders used charitable donations for family trips to the Bahamas, private jets and lavish meals that shaved $64m off the organisation’s balance sheet in three years, turning a surplus into a financial crisis.

...

_

Last year:

Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A.
The organization’s leadership is focussed on external threats, but the real crisis may be internal.

By Mike Spies

April 17, 2019

This winter, members of the National Rifle Association—elk hunters in Montana, skeet shooters in upstate New York, concealed-carry enthusiasts in Jacksonville—might have noticed a desperate tone in the organization’s fund-raising efforts. In a letter from early March, Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A.’s top executive, warned that liberal regulators were threatening to destroy the organization. “We’re facing an attack that’s unprecedented not just in the history of the N.R.A. but in the entire history of our country,” he wrote. “The Second Amendment cannot survive without the N.R.A., and the N.R.A. cannot survive without your help right now.”

LaPierre is right that the N.R.A. is troubled; in recent years, it has run annual deficits of as much as forty million dollars. It is not unusual for nonprofits to ask prospective donors to help forestall disaster. What is unusual is the extent to which such warnings have become the central activity of the N.R.A. Even as the association has reduced spending on its avowed core mission—gun education, safety, and training—to less than ten per cent of its total budget, it has substantially increased its spending on messaging. The N.R.A. is now mainly a media company, promoting a life style built around loving guns and hating anyone who might take them away.

...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

The NRA, as a legal entity, is a creation of New York State, which retains jurisdiction over matters relating to the control and management of the corporation.

For other purposes, the state of the corporation’s principal place of business would have jurisdiction, but only New York has jurisdiction to dissolve or determine the composition of the management of a New York corporation.

Does that second paragraph "explain away" why New York may not have jurisdiction to pursue criminal cases against individual?   I used "may" because I assume that this gets messy in the sense of thinking it would be easy to find NY victims in just about any financial crime.  Does that matter?  Or only where the crime happened?  I guess messy!

 

[BladeRunner]

Recent:

‘I don’t trust them any more’: how the NRA became its own worst enemy

Oliver North cut a lonely figure as he walked through the Indianapolis airport, quietly slipping out of the city midway through the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) convention which was still in progress. A day later, North announced from afar that he was not seeking a traditional second term as its president, while it also emerged that the New York attorney general was investigating the NRA’s tax-exempt status.

That was April 2019. More than a year later, the turmoil that heralded North’s departure has culminated in the New York attorney general, Letitia James, suing to put the NRA out of business, alleging that senior leaders used charitable donations for family trips to the Bahamas, private jets and lavish meals that shaved $64m off the organisation’s balance sheet in three years, turning a surplus into a financial crisis.

...

_

Last year:

Secrecy, Self-Dealing, and Greed at the N.R.A.
The organization’s leadership is focussed on external threats, but the real crisis may be internal.

By Mike Spies

April 17, 2019

This winter, members of the National Rifle Association—elk hunters in Montana, skeet shooters in upstate New York, concealed-carry enthusiasts in Jacksonville—might have noticed a desperate tone in the organization’s fund-raising efforts. In a letter from early March, Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A.’s top executive, warned that liberal regulators were threatening to destroy the organization. “We’re facing an attack that’s unprecedented not just in the history of the N.R.A. but in the entire history of our country,” he wrote. “The Second Amendment cannot survive without the N.R.A., and the N.R.A. cannot survive without your help right now.”

LaPierre is right that the N.R.A. is troubled; in recent years, it has run annual deficits of as much as forty million dollars. It is not unusual for nonprofits to ask prospective donors to help forestall disaster. What is unusual is the extent to which such warnings have become the central activity of the N.R.A. Even as the association has reduced spending on its avowed core mission—gun education, safety, and training—to less than ten per cent of its total budget, it has substantially increased its spending on messaging. The N.R.A. is now mainly a media company, promoting a life style built around loving guns and hating anyone who might take them away.

...

Had you not specified the NRA in your post, this could apply virtually ANY organization.  ESPECIALLY congress.

Maybe we should start with congress first?

 

[Lutherman2112]

Had you not specified the NRA in your post, this could apply virtually ANY organization.  ESPECIALLY congress.

Maybe we should start with congress first?

no. There are specific rules that the NRA must abide by in the State of NY. They didn't abide.

You have no clue how not for profits work.

I feel sorry for you, and for the late Philip K ****.

 

[BladeRunner]

no. There are specific rules that the NRA must abide by in the State of NY. They didn't abide.

You have no clue how not for profits work.

I feel sorry for you, and for the late Philip K ****.

I'm not sure why you're getting so personal.  Did I do something to you?  Having a bad day?

Try to be better next time - Joe's rules, not mine.

 

[Lutherman2112]

I'm not sure why you're getting so personal.  Did I do something to you?  Having a bad day?

Try to be better next time - Joe's rules, not mine.

No, nothing personal. I just feel sorry for you. 

 

[Endowed]

Most excellent news everbody!

 

[BladeRunner]

No, nothing personal. I just feel sorry for you. 

Because WHY again? 

You guys need to get over this stuff.  Don't let hate ruin your life, man.

 

[KarmaPolice]

You guys need to get over this stuff.  Don't let hate ruin your life, man.

Interesting post from you.  How do you feel about Democrats again? 

 

[BladeRunner]

Interesting post from you.  How do you feel about Democrats again? 

Lovely people, really.

 

[massraider]

Wayne LaPierre Testified He Fled to the Bahamas for ‘Security.’ Documents and Interviews Tell a Different Story. 

In 2020, New York’s attorney general, Letitia James, sued to dissolve the NRA for a pattern of self-dealing that included LaPierre’s alleged acceptance of lavish gifts from contractors. Under questioning about the yacht trip, LaPierre did not disclose the wedding. Instead, he testified under oath that he used the boat that summer because his life was in imminent danger. He said that trip — the first of six annual summer voyages on the yacht in the Bahamas, from 2013 to 2018 — was a “security retreat” and the only way he could be safe after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. LaPierre explained that he was under “Presidential threat without Presidential security” and that the boat “was offered” as a refuge. When he finally got to the yacht, he recalled thinking, “Thank God I’m safe, nobody can get me here.”

Thanks to the heroic actions of this yacht owner who happens to be one of our contractors, I was able to survive after Sandy Hook

 

[Roy L Fewks]

Wayne needs to go.

But the NRA will never be dissolved, that's just a lib fever dream.

 

[roadkill1292]

Hot take alert: sometime in the 2040s the first serious  attempts to repeal the 2nd will occur and they will succeed in the ensuing decade.